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Tiger
01-31-2007, 12:06 AM
Just wondering: can anyone direct me to some decent scholarly resources about assassins? I'm looking for info on schools, organizations, techniques, etc--from, say, the 15th thru the 17th centuries?

Sorry, ninjutsu fans: I'm interested in Asia and Western Asia--but not Japan.

Thanks in advance.

Willowmound
01-31-2007, 05:19 AM
Sorry, can't help you. However, it may help you to know that the period 16th - 17th century was not Medieval. It's Renaissance.

The Middle Ages were roughly 500 AD - 1450 AD. Then came the Renaissance. Different thing.

Tiger
01-31-2007, 05:46 AM
Sorry, can't help you. However, it may help you to know that the period 16th - 17th century was not Medieval. It's Renaissance.

The Middle Ages were roughly 500 AD - 1450 AD. Then came the Renaissance. Different thing.


Whoops. I did mean Medieval, though... Please push my two referenced dates back a century each. Was it still the Renaissance period outside of Europe?

ideagirl
01-31-2007, 05:50 AM
the period 16th - 17th century was not Medieval. It's Renaissance. The Middle Ages were roughly 500 AD - 1450 AD. Then came the Renaissance. Different thing.

Right indeed. Not to mention, the word "medieval" is meaningless when it comes to Asia. The whole ancient-medieval-Renaissance-Enlightenment paradigm applies only to Europe and parts of the Mediterranean world. Wish I could refer the original questioner to some Asian history websites or books, but I'm no expert there.

ideagirl
01-31-2007, 06:01 AM
Whoops. I did mean Medieval, though... Please push my two referenced dates back a century each. Was it still the Renaissance period outside of Europe?

No. The Renaissance started in Italy and spread northward and northwest over the next century or so, and then it was the Renaissance throughout Europe, with the possible exception of Ireland (which was always on its own timetable, due to its relative remoteness and lack of strategic importance--for instance, during the part of the Middle Ages generally known as the Dark Ages, so between the fall of Rome and about 1100, Ireland wasn't having Dark Ages; read "How the Irish Saved Civilization" for details on that). And the definite exception of Iceland, which was pretty much medieval-but-democratic (they had an elected parliament 1000 years ago!) until it suddenly modernized in the 20th century.

Also remember that western and eastern Europe developed to some extent separately because of the religious difference--Catholicism vs. Orthodox Christianity (e.g. the kind of Christianity still practiced in Greece, Russia, etc.). They banded together to fight off their mutual foe, the Muslim hordes who spent the late middle ages trying to attack Europe (with some success, e.g. permanently conquering Constantinople and temporarily conquering southern Spain). But still, the two halves of Europe developed differently and could be said to have had different ages--I don't know that there was ever a Renaissance or Enlightenment in Russia, for example.

When we talk about the ancient world, the middle ages, the dark ages, the Renaissance, or the Enlightenment, we're talking about Europe and areas under its dominion (e.g. Turkey). America basically went straight from "middle ages with a Protestant twist" to the Enlightenment, with no Renaissance in between. The Islamic world had a sort of Enlightenment in roughly the 11th-14th centuries, then plunged into its own version of the dark ages and, IMHO, has largely stayed there with a few exceptions (the Sufis...). And Asia, likewise, had its own timetable; and since Asia is huge, the timetable varies depending on which part of Asia you're looking at. What part are you interested in? Have you tried googling "timeline Asian history" or "timeline Chinese history" (or whatever nation), to get an overview?

ideagirl
01-31-2007, 06:10 AM
Here are some general overviews of Asian history:

China timeline http://depts.washington.edu/chinaciv/timeline.htm

China overview http://www-chaos.umd.edu/history/toc.html

Korean history, 10th-14th centuries (may be useful as background, since this is the period shortly before your story is set): http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/07/eak/ht07eak.htm
Korean history, 14th-20th centuries:
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/08/eak/ht08eak.htm

I just found those by googling "timeline chinese history" and "timeline korean history" (without the quotes). Try that and see what comes up.

Bravo
01-31-2007, 07:00 AM
Just wondering: can anyone direct me to some decent scholarly resources about assassins? I'm looking for info on schools, organizations, techniques, etc--from, say, the 15th thru the 17th centuries?

Sorry, ninjutsu fans: I'm interested in Asia and Western Asia--but not Japan.

Thanks in advance.

would you be interested in the original assasins, the hashishin of the ME (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin)?

bernard lewis' book on them (http://books.google.com/books?id=01OHdIG-_6AC&pg=RA4-PA168&lpg=RA4-PA168&dq=assassins+bernard+lewis&source=web&ots=SfbeCzpz6d&sig=8Hwz12CLbIWHa75asY3ako-Y40k#PRA3-PA38,M1) is pretty interesting.

not sure if theyre what youre looking for though.

Willowmound
01-31-2007, 07:32 AM
ideagirl may well be my ideal-girl. She knows more than I do! :)

I was about to say something about the original Assasins (Old Man of the Mountain, and all that) but Bravo beat me to it.

Tiger
01-31-2007, 09:50 AM
would you be interested in the original assasins, the hashishin of the ME (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin)?

bernard lewis' book on them (http://books.google.com/books?id=01OHdIG-_6AC&pg=RA4-PA168&lpg=RA4-PA168&dq=assassins+bernard+lewis&source=web&ots=SfbeCzpz6d&sig=8Hwz12CLbIWHa75asY3ako-Y40k#PRA3-PA38,M1) is pretty interesting.

not sure if theyre what youre looking for though.

Thanks, Bravo... Yes, I would. I was thinking of beginning with them. Thanks for the link.

Tiger
01-31-2007, 10:12 AM
Thank you, ideagirl, for all of the details. History's been little more than light reading for me since college, and I really am grateful for the proper period and geographical terminology.

I've fairly good directions for my search for Japanese history in the Warring States period. So, I'd like begin by fanning my researches out to Korea, China, and western Asia.

Specifically, I am looking for information there might be about the professions of espionage and assassination; warfare and education. I'm thinking that the period of time between, say 1250 and 1550 might be the most useful.

I realize this is a tall order folks... I apologize if I'm misusing anyone's area of expertise. ;)

Thank you.

-Dean

Willowmound
01-31-2007, 10:20 AM
Have you tried Sun Tzu's The Art of War?

Tiger
01-31-2007, 10:33 AM
Picked up a copy, just last week. ;)

Also, "Ghengis Khan and the Making of the Modern World"

Willowmound
01-31-2007, 10:34 AM
Also, "Ghengis Khan and the Making of the Modern World"


Sounds interesting.

Tiger
01-31-2007, 10:45 AM
Sounds interesting.

I was. I read the whole thing. When I was done, I couldn't believe that people ever thought Alexander's empire was wide...

ideagirl
02-01-2007, 09:54 PM
Have you tried Sun Tzu's The Art of War?

*forehead smack*!
Excellent suggestion!

MattW
02-02-2007, 02:03 AM
Heading east from the Assassins, there's the Thugee cult in India (that may go back as far as the 13th century). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thugee

I also recall something about a isolated fortress of a violent band near the Caspian Sea.

Tiger
02-02-2007, 03:14 AM
Heading east from the Assassins, there's the Thugee cult in India (that may go back as far as the 13th century). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thugee

I also recall something about a isolated fortress of a violent band near the Caspian Sea.
Excellent!

Thank you