Telepathy - has it ever been proven?

bylinebree said:

Does anyone know if true telepathy has ever been proven, especially in a scientific study?

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Not proven, but not completely dismissed either...

Here's an interesting starting point for you...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-2346084,00.html

Sheldrake is a bit "out there" but at least he's approaching the subject with a background in the scientific method...

If you Google "Rupert Sheldrake" +telepathy you'll get more info than you can handle

Willie

Some people tend to have a higher source of psychic awareness than others. In my experience -- and admittedly, many of my acquaintances fall under the heading of "New Agey" kind of people who seem to be a bit more open to psychic phenomenon -- there are varying degrees of psychic ability.

Some folks are more focused on auric reading, where they can tell the health or well being of a person by reading their aura. Others use methods of divination to figure out what's going on with someone. I personally have always had very strong empathic abilities, and can often pick up on hidden emotions -- even if it's someone I've just met.

As an example, last weekend I attended an energy workshop, where we did things like meditation, self-empowerment exercises, etc., and there was a woman there who I didn't know. When I was introduced to her, she shook my hand and I blurted out, "Are you going to be okay?", because although I didnt know specifically what was wrong, there was something about her that seemed... off. She just kind of looked at me and said, "I think so, thank you." Later in the evening her friend (that had brought her to the workshop) told me this woman had just been told her son had cancer. She was carrying those vibrations with her, and I just picked up on it.

Of course, if you're a complete skeptic you can hang out with this guy.

The CIA (or other govt sanctioned branch) actually had (maybe still do) a programme where they experimented with using pyschics and attempted to enhance and channel psychic agent's thoughts about various locations. I can't recall the name of it but perhaps someone here might know - or maybe google it. It was very interesting as I recall, because they were using their agents to harness "out of body" experiences and have them describe various locations where they "went." Their accuracy was startling.

I also believe that our animals can read our thoughts, and recall watching a programme (maybe TLC or Animal Planet) about dogs and how they were so attuned to their owners, that even when separated from them, they would know the exact time when their masters decided to come home. They even did an experiment with rescued wolves who were owned by a Cdn couple. The man had a job where he would come home at random times, yet the woman of the couple always knew when he was on his way home because of the way the wolf pack acted. Interesting stuff.

kikazaru said:

The CIA (or other govt sanctioned branch) actually had (maybe still do) a programme where they experimented with using pyschics and attempted to enhance and channel psychic agent's thoughts about various locations. I can't recall the name of it but perhaps someone here might know - or maybe google it.

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That was the MK-ULTRA project.... if you want to get sucked into the very depths of internet weirdness, google MK-ULTRA and just start following some links ... it'll eventually lead you to just about every conspiracy theory going

I would recommend reading Think and Grow Rich, there's some reference to telepathy in it. And it's available free over the Internet.

There is still the research center at a very prestigious university whose name is now slipping my mind - both the university and the research center!

They started off long ago to scientifically research ESP and other paranormal phenomena.

distance viewing sounds like the term for what was described above. The idea was to train agents to spy without ever leaving the country. The Russians were doing a lot of work there as well. (not conspiracy theory but documented facts here!)

But as for 'proven' as the speed of light has been proven? No.

More like proven as the existence of God is proven. Or not.

I could see arguments both ways - like in the story of you and your dog. Others who consider themselves more 'rational' would say that you just recognize the certain 'look' your dog has when he needs to go outside and he responds a certain way to the sounds you make which he associates with going outside. But still others will swear that your dog is 'communicating' telepathically with you - just not 'voices' as we tend to know it.

I believe my cats are highly adept at ESP powers...cause I can tell - even when they're not looking at me - what anatomically incorrect they are commanding me to go do on many occassions. Like when I'm not sharing my dinner. Or I try to give them raw meat instead of medium rare with sauce and spices.

Rabe...

Rabe said:

There is still the research center at a very prestigious university whose name is now slipping my mind - both the university and the research center!

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The Rhine Center at Duke University, I believe. Set up long ago to investigate all forms of ESP.

PattiTheWicked said:

Some folks are more focused on auric reading, where they can tell the health or well being of a person by reading their aura. Others use methods of divination to figure out what's going on with someone. I personally have always had very strong empathic abilities, and can often pick up on hidden emotions -- even if it's someone I've just met.

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Me, too! I tend to go chameleon with other people's emotions, though. I need to learn to shield unconsciously. I was at a stranger's funeral when I BURST into tears. I remembered to shield, and I was okay within seconds. Heavy example, but...

Wasn't there some sort of experiment that the American military did, that got written about in a book called "The Men Who Stared at Goats"?
It was something to do with goats being injured deliberately, so that the soldiers would have the experience of looking after a wounded comrade without actually wounding a comrade - and then they wanted to see which goats would heal fastest, if someone was staring at them and 'ill-wishing' them.
I think the results were inconclusive.

I have experienced it once myself. If you want details, let me know and I'll send them to you privately.

There are several academic parapsychology journals that have recent scientific studies. It all comes down to statistic, though. Experimental studies measure results against what what would be expected by chance. Ergo they can only say what is unlikely, not what is true.

It is an area of research that has trouble in areas euphemistically called 'repeatability' and with issues like 'fade'. I don't think you could consider it proven.

In the mid 90's I read Susan Blackmore's book "The Adventures of A Parapsychologist" in which she wrote of being the first person to get a Masters degree in parapsychology. She failed to find any results in her own experiments, and she found problems with others' experiments which had found results. It didn't convince her that it doesn't exist, but reading her book convinced me. She later DID decide to give up looking for anything paranormal, as she says in this essay:
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Chapters/Kurtz.htm

Clever Hans phenomenon

This may explain what's going on with pets and other animals "reading" people's minds:
http://skepdic.com/cleverhans.html

There are plenty of studies since then that control for the Clever Hans effect to the nth degree.

Proving the paranormal is like proving God. Both might one day happen but the evidence will not be found on this plane of existence. If we ever break through the 3D barrier there might be something concrete.

My experiences will not allow me to deny it exists but to talk about it just invites cynicism.

rugcat said:

The Rhine Center at Duke University, I believe. Set up long ago to investigate all forms of ESP.

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THANK YOU! That was bothering me!

I was pretty sure it was Duke University but had enough doubt to keep it out.

And kept wanting to call it the Randi Center but I knew that wasn't right and both James Randi and the Rhine Center would have sent ninja dwarves for my duadenum for that gaffe!

Rabe...

bylinebree said:

Does anyone know if true telepathy has ever been proven, especially in a scientific study? I don't mean Uri whats-his-name bending spoons, but the ability to read someone else's mind or communicate your thoughts to them.

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It's been proven lots of times, and yes, in scientific studies. Check out this book for a thorough summary (at least it was thorough as of the date of this book's publication, which was 5-10 years ago): The Conscious Universe: The Truth of Psychic Phenomena, by Dean Radin. It outlines dozens of university studies: how they were performed, what the raw data was, what the conclusion was. It's a surprisingly dry read for such an interesting subject, but very solid as far as data and references go.

When I say "proven," I mean that the way the word is normally used in the less-tangible scientific fields (astrophysics, etc.): that is, "demonstrated to a degree of statistical probability that is sufficient to indicate its existence." It's not something you can go out and poke with a stick, any more than black holes are something you can go poke with a stick. But it's been proven in the "nine bazillion to one against chance" statistical way.

On a related note, I would also recommend the book The Truth About Medium: Extraordinary Experiments with the real Allison DuBois of NBC's Medium and other Remarkable Psychics by Gary E. Schwartz. Schwartz is a professor at the University of Arizona, and he's done quite a number of double- and triple-blind experiments on people who work as professional mediums. His experiments indicate that mediumship works too. If you google his full name, you'll find that he's a professor of clinical psychology, neurology, and psychiatry, and he got his degree from Harvard. Here's the page from the U of Arizona website that discusses the research done by the center he runs there: http://veritas.arizona.edu

bylinebree said:

Or have you ever experienced it yourself?

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Yes, on many occasions, both while awake and in dreams. I've gotten very specific, weird information that way (e.g., when I suspected that a boyfriend who lived 3000 miles away had taken up with another woman, I asked my dreams for information and got not only confirmation that that was true, but also her first name and the fact that she lived southwest of where he lived and came to visit him on weekends--she was a complete stranger to me and he was very secretive, not to mention 3000 miles away, so there is no rational explanation for how I got that information). A lot of the women on my maternal grandmother's side have these abilities.

And as for the second book, I went to see a local medium and she got unbelievably accurate information, which she said was being told to her by the spirit of my deceased maternal grandmother (she didn't even know beforehand that my maternal grandmother was deceased, let alone the other stuff she said).

Please realise that the Rhine centre was struck with a promonant case of proven fraud and has been under a cloud ever since. That scandal crippled animal-based experimental parapsych right up to the present day.

Rabe said:

THANK YOU! That was bothering me!

I was pretty sure it was Duke University but had enough doubt to keep it out.

And kept wanting to call it the Randi Center but I knew that wasn't right and both James Randi and the Rhine Center would have sent ninja dwarves for my duadenum for that gaffe!

Rabe...

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Nah, no one at the Randi Center believes in ninja dwarves. James Randi would send a pack of rabid lawyers.

My experiences will not allow me to deny it exists but to talk about it just invites cynicism.

My thoughts, too.

"Telepathy" is in the realm of the supernatural because it is not proven. It can never be "proven" in the realm of the natural. No scientific tests can be applied to telepathy (or other supernatural things).

Someone else in thread mentioned James Randi. http://randi.org/ is his site. He offers a million dollars to anyone who has "proof."

I odnlt know if it's been proven or not, but I have known two people who knew exactly what was inside me. Not in the sense of deliberately reding my thoughts, but simply "knowing" intuitively. They didn't have to prove it to me - it was just
obvious from the situation that they knew. But it's not something I would speak about publiscly; and they were very special, and very rare, people.

James Randi = total fraud

JaniceR said:

Someone else in thread mentioned James Randi. http://randi.org/ is his site. He offers a million dollars to anyone who has "proof."

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Just FYI, James Randi is a publicity hound with an axe to grind. His normal modus operandi, when he is faced with solid, double-blind, university-based research on anything related to ESP, mediumship, etc., is to misrepresent the facts (that's a nice way of saying "to lie") and engage in personal attacks against whoever did the research. Here's an example (sorry for the hard-to-read white-on-black text--there are probably other websites with this information, but this was the first one I found):

Dr. Schwartz's response to James Randi's attack on the University of Arizona mediumship experiments: http://www.dailygrail.com/node/1311

And another example: http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/exam/Prescott_Randi.htm

The guy was a stage magician ("The Amazing Randi") before he launched his new career as a professional skeptic; it's not like he has any academic credentials to back up his criticism of the researchers who do this kind of research. Randi has been successfully sued for defamation and the Japanese equivalent of slander by various people, including Uri Geller, and he was also threatened with legal action by Allison Dubois (he backed down and didn't get sued). You can read about some of his legal troubles on Wikipedia. Randi is just not a credible person--he has too much of an agenda (which is the complete opposite of a scientific approach), and too much of a history of lying (or to use the legal terms: defaming, slandering, etc.).

True, James Randi is not an unbiased researcher. He is an advocate, a former magician who has made it his life's work to expose frauds and scammers in the psychic and supernatural arena. He has his flaws, and like most passionate advocates, he can be rigid and abrasive at times. However, it would be false logic to assume that because he has his own problems, then the subjects of his exposes must be therefore legitimate.

ideagirl said:

It's been proven lots of times, and yes, in scientific studies.

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Clearly, you are an advocate as well. Telepathy may have been proved to your own satisfaction, but not to the vast majority of scientists, or ordinary people, for that matter.