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DeePower
Just for fun go look at this.
Go to www.publishamerica.com/sh.../index.htm
Put in the title Overtime in the search box and then when it comes up. Click on read reviews.
Dee Power
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
Go to www.publishamerica.com/sh.../index.htm
Put in the title Overtime in the search box and then when it comes up. Click on read reviews.
Dee Power
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
DaveKuzminski
Re: PA author proposal for scam alert board
Now, just who do you think should come up first on their list?
Now, just who do you think should come up first on their list?
lastr
First on the PA scam alert list
Well Dave I think it will be a photo finish between P & E and SCFWA. Although a friend on mine was told that my warnings to her about them meant nothing, being a member of USHWA gave me no credance in the writing world, in fact that I probably was only "...disgruntled wannabe who must have had a manuscript rejected by us ..."
Well Dave I think it will be a photo finish between P & E and SCFWA. Although a friend on mine was told that my warnings to her about them meant nothing, being a member of USHWA gave me no credance in the writing world, in fact that I probably was only "...disgruntled wannabe who must have had a manuscript rejected by us ..."
CaoPaux
The plot thickens
Per another board, at least one person has emailed Robert Bly (poet) to inform him that PA was using his creds to promote someone else's book....
Per another board, at least one person has emailed Robert Bly (poet) to inform him that PA was using his creds to promote someone else's book....
priceless1
Pray
Please, God, don't ever, ever make my company the butt of all jokes, the ridicule of many and the bane of my existence. And God? Should I ever become everything I find abhorrent, distasteful and embarrassing, You have my permission to toss thunderbolts at me as a human s'more.
Please, God, don't ever, ever make my company the butt of all jokes, the ridicule of many and the bane of my existence. And God? Should I ever become everything I find abhorrent, distasteful and embarrassing, You have my permission to toss thunderbolts at me as a human s'more.
DaveKuzminski
Re: PA author proposal for scam alert board
Seriously, I'd like to see them create such a topic because if they do, they'll end up labeling just about every business that Writer Beware, Absolute Write, Writers Net, and P&E have pointed out already.
By the way, can anyone post a review of a PA book over there?
Seriously, I'd like to see them create such a topic because if they do, they'll end up labeling just about every business that Writer Beware, Absolute Write, Writers Net, and P&E have pointed out already.
By the way, can anyone post a review of a PA book over there?
DeePower
Deejay816
Re: The plot thickens
Yes, I emailed Robert Bly, the poet, to let him know that PA is using him as a promotional tool. I think PA should be ashamed of this type of unforgiveable blunder and we are all laughing at their stupidity, but in the meantime, the reputation of a well-known, well-respected writer is being put on the line so PA can build themselves up. I thought he deserved to know and sent a copy of the post by info-center in which they announced the purchase of his latest book.
Deej
Yes, I emailed Robert Bly, the poet, to let him know that PA is using him as a promotional tool. I think PA should be ashamed of this type of unforgiveable blunder and we are all laughing at their stupidity, but in the meantime, the reputation of a well-known, well-respected writer is being put on the line so PA can build themselves up. I thought he deserved to know and sent a copy of the post by info-center in which they announced the purchase of his latest book.
Deej
DaveKuzminski
Re: The plot thickens
Good for you!
Some folks might call it meddling, but we're trying to create an environment where writers can trust who they deal with. The only way to do that is to call attention to problems, not sweep those under the rug.
Good for you!
Some folks might call it meddling, but we're trying to create an environment where writers can trust who they deal with. The only way to do that is to call attention to problems, not sweep those under the rug.
Deejay816
Bly
Well, I'm certainly not a well-known writer but I wouldn't want PA using any of my work (not even the one I published with them though I guess technically they could) to promote themselves - ugh!
Deej
Well, I'm certainly not a well-known writer but I wouldn't want PA using any of my work (not even the one I published with them though I guess technically they could) to promote themselves - ugh!
Deej
vstrauss
Re: Bly vs. Bly
>>Didn't they think it strange that an award-winning poet would write a book about hot dogs?<<
Perhaps they thought the wieners were metaphorical. Bly did write IRON JOHN, after all.
- Victoria
>>Didn't they think it strange that an award-winning poet would write a book about hot dogs?<<
Perhaps they thought the wieners were metaphorical. Bly did write IRON JOHN, after all.
- Victoria
James D Macdonald
Re: Bly vs. Bly
I think "metaphorical" is too big a word for most PublishAmerica editors. I bet they thought Iron John was about long-lasting toilets.
I think "metaphorical" is too big a word for most PublishAmerica editors. I bet they thought Iron John was about long-lasting toilets.
DeePower
PA doesn't care
RE: Romance Writer's of America
It seems Romance Writers of America (8000 members) RWA doesn't consider PublishAmerica a legitimate publisher and PA doesn't care.
www.publishamerica.com/cg.../10271.htm
Message:
"A very useful organization that encourages writers starting out and holds instructive sessions. I attended several of their meetings and was impressed by the serious professionalism of the writers. They want to learn and get better. Personally, I found that their genre doesn't fit my writing style. I'm more action-adventure than romance. Also, I found that the National RWA did not recognize PA publications in their definition of published material. In other words, a PA writer was considered "unpublished." You might want to check into that before joining. I reported this to PA and they shrugged it off, saying it didn't matter. That's the facts."
Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
RE: Romance Writer's of America
It seems Romance Writers of America (8000 members) RWA doesn't consider PublishAmerica a legitimate publisher and PA doesn't care.
www.publishamerica.com/cg.../10271.htm
Message:
"A very useful organization that encourages writers starting out and holds instructive sessions. I attended several of their meetings and was impressed by the serious professionalism of the writers. They want to learn and get better. Personally, I found that their genre doesn't fit my writing style. I'm more action-adventure than romance. Also, I found that the National RWA did not recognize PA publications in their definition of published material. In other words, a PA writer was considered "unpublished." You might want to check into that before joining. I reported this to PA and they shrugged it off, saying it didn't matter. That's the facts."
Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
LaVerneRoss
Re: Huh?
I'd like to see that too. PA just might do that, minus themselves of course. They always speak badly of other publishers anyway. Too bad there wouldn't be a way to sneak their name to the top of that list..
I'd like to see that too. PA just might do that, minus themselves of course. They always speak badly of other publishers anyway. Too bad there wouldn't be a way to sneak their name to the top of that list..
DaveKuzminski
Re: PA doesn't care
It's only a matter of time before a scammer puts together an official sounding organization meant to lure in writers from companies who were ignored by the real writers' organizations. The formerly ignored writers won't catch on until they realize that only writers from certain publishers belong to the organization and that the secret voting for organization officers is secret so they can't see where the money's going until it's too late.
So, all you PA authors, watch out! There are other scammers out there waiting to take your money.
It's only a matter of time before a scammer puts together an official sounding organization meant to lure in writers from companies who were ignored by the real writers' organizations. The formerly ignored writers won't catch on until they realize that only writers from certain publishers belong to the organization and that the secret voting for organization officers is secret so they can't see where the money's going until it's too late.
So, all you PA authors, watch out! There are other scammers out there waiting to take your money.
Ed Williams 3
Dorrance rejected someone, and PA published the book...
From the PA author's boards, it speaks for itself...
"You asked about agent horror stories, here is mine. A New York agent[well-known] actually asked for my manuscript. She responded in only 3 weeks to my query letter. I admit to being remiss in not badgering her daily but I was told by some "pros" not to do that. So I waited and she gave me a "just wait a bit longer". We had periodic contact but after an 18 month long ordeal she said, "Sorry but I won't represent you, the market isn't right for your book." Disappointed would not sum up how I felt after a year and a half of waiting. Then a company in Belgium asked for the book. They closed down and the editor with the novel lost his job. That was another 6 months shot to blazes. Then Dorrance Publishing took over a year to say no thanks. I could go on but another favorite responce was a "No thanks but you should have no trouble finding another publisher." Then I found Publish America and they responded quickly and I'd like to add politely."
Just about says it all, doesn't it?
From the PA author's boards, it speaks for itself...
"You asked about agent horror stories, here is mine. A New York agent[well-known] actually asked for my manuscript. She responded in only 3 weeks to my query letter. I admit to being remiss in not badgering her daily but I was told by some "pros" not to do that. So I waited and she gave me a "just wait a bit longer". We had periodic contact but after an 18 month long ordeal she said, "Sorry but I won't represent you, the market isn't right for your book." Disappointed would not sum up how I felt after a year and a half of waiting. Then a company in Belgium asked for the book. They closed down and the editor with the novel lost his job. That was another 6 months shot to blazes. Then Dorrance Publishing took over a year to say no thanks. I could go on but another favorite responce was a "No thanks but you should have no trouble finding another publisher." Then I found Publish America and they responded quickly and I'd like to add politely."
Just about says it all, doesn't it?
dgkgoldberg
emeraldcite
Re: Bly vs. Bly
i'm curious where this info comes from. especially that one percent stat...
So, we're to assume then that all those managers that are telling all these authors that they don't stock PA books are either lying, in league with on another, or both. Of course the number of books they order from PA has quadrupled. The more authors they put out and the more books they sell to family members via these book store orders, the more books they can claim to sale to these places. this, of course, has nothing to do with stocking the books. they're avoiding the question.
Except, of course, those authors who often write in (and are subsequently deleted) to complain that their books cannot be ordered for one reason or another.
poor, poor people.
PublishAmerica books have the same chance of making it onto a bookstore shelf as do the books of any publisher. It may be of interest that less than one percent of all authors ever see their books stocked by bookstores at all. For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space each and every day.
i'm curious where this info comes from. especially that one percent stat...
Please do not judge a bookstore's corporate policy by what one local manager or one letter tells you.
So, we're to assume then that all those managers that are telling all these authors that they don't stock PA books are either lying, in league with on another, or both. Of course the number of books they order from PA has quadrupled. The more authors they put out and the more books they sell to family members via these book store orders, the more books they can claim to sale to these places. this, of course, has nothing to do with stocking the books. they're avoiding the question.
Also worthy of note, most of your books are physically, actually, in stock at Ingram, with copies in their Oregon and Tennessee warehouses, and at a Barnes and Noble distribution center, ready to ship immediately
Except, of course, those authors who often write in (and are subsequently deleted) to complain that their books cannot be ordered for one reason or another.
poor, poor people.
James D Macdonald
Re: sigh
Well, shucks. About time for a line-by-line commentary on this typically mendacious twaddle from InfoCenter.
<HR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Contrary to what you may have been told by a local Barnes and Noble bookstore manager, they have no such policy at all,</BLOCKQUOTE>
Note that exactly what policy they're denying B&N has isn't specified. That makes it hard to pin down.
But no, Barnes & Noble doesn't have a policy against stocking digitally printed books. They have a policy against stocking non-returnable, overpriced, poor quality books that require payment up front (rather than in 60-90 days) and only have a short discount.
Big difference!
To quote from BN.COM's website:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Print-on-demand titles: with over one million titles already in print, and another 50,000 or more published every year, we obviously cannot carry every book that is published. Indeed, the key to print-on-demand technology is that it enables publishers to keep a vast number of titles in print and available without stocking inventory. Print-on-demand titles will continue to be featured on the Barnes & Noble.com website, and available for customer orders in our stores.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Featured on the website, and available for order. Got that? That's B&N's policy.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
and they do not categorize PublishAmerica as anything other than what we are.</BLOCKQUOTE>
A POD vanity press....
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Not only does Barnes and Noble have no policy against stocking print on demand books, Barnes and Noble actively enbraces [sic] the entire concept of Print On Demand.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
See the quote from Barnes and Noble above.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
We see lots of misconceptions, in this thread and elsewhere, on the returnability issue. The facts refuting this are very plain and easy to offer as evidence. Non-returnable books are the direction that the industry is taking, and what you're hearing is not at all true, of course.</BLOCKQUOTE>
This is a plain lie. Offering the facts would be a refreshing change.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Just as one example, PublishAmerica has an account with Barnes and Noble and many other bookstores, including chains, and they buy our books all the time.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, so they have an account. They have to get those books that the authors' families and friends order somehow. "They buy our books all the time"? Sure, every time Aunt Mable orders one....
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Please see this thread and many others like it, and the additional info below:
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/8622.htm
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
No publisher guarantees book sales to bookstores.</BLOCKQUOTE>
True enough. Much like no auto manufacturer guarantees auto sales through car lots. They don't need to make that guarantee. They're in business to sell books to the general public. How else is the general public to get those books?
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Major chain bookstores have no policy against stocking non-returnable books.</BLOCKQUOTE>
They merely refuse to do so.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, Barnes and Noble has quadrupled the number of books they order from PublishAmerica during the past year. </BLOCKQUOTE>
"Ordered from" is not the same as "stocked." Note the weasel-wording. With 8,000 happy authors now (up from a claimed 5,000 last year), I can well imagine that the number of orders has increased.
A term like "quadrupled" is hard to pin down, though. A real number would be helpful. If last year one book was ordered through B&N and this year four were ordered, that would be quadrupling -- but four sales is still pretty pathetic.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Thousands, each and every month, of PublishAmerica books are sold in bookstores. Hundreds of bookstores across the nation stock our books.</BLOCKQUOTE>
8,000 happy authors, each getting his family and friends to special-order their books, can work out to thousands "sold in bookstores," if by "sold in bookstores" we mean that's where the money changed hands, over at the Special Order desk. Hundreds of bookstores stock their books? (Note that distinction between "sold" and "stocked.") Let's see -- 8,000 happy authors, each pestering their local bookstores to please, please, please, stock a copy on consignment ... if 5% of those happy authors are successful, then one or another PublishAmerica book will be stocked (in dribs and drabs, by ones and twos) in "hundreds" of bookstore.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
PublishAmerica books have the same chance of making it onto a bookstore shelf as do the books of any publisher.</BLOCKQUOTE>
A lie.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
It may be of interest that less than one percent of all authors ever see their books stocked by bookstores at all. </BLOCKQUOTE>
I wonder where they get this statistic? Does it mean that most people who write books don't manage to sell them? When you figure that around 98-99% of all books get rejected -- then you figure in the textbooks and such that don't usually get bookstore distribution -- yeah, I think they're counting "all authors" as meaning "everyone who ever tried typing a book."
<BLOCKQUOTE>
For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space each and every day.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Which they make up for by stripping and returning 15 feet of books per day.
Now how big is fifteen feet of shelf space? Figure one bookshelf, twenty feet long by five rows high. 15 feet of shelf space would be 15% of that. How many linear feet of bookshelf does your average Barnes & Noble, Borders, or Books A Million superstore have? Thousands of feet? A million linear feet?
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Therefore bookstore managers must be selective, so they decide based on what that they think will sell. If they do think it will sell, they will stock it, and vice versa. So, if your book is romance and the store's shelves are overflowing with romance novels, the odds are they won't stock it. And, if your book is a history of agriculture in Tupelo County, Mississippi, the bookstore manager in Seattle may feel the same way.</BLOCKQUOTE>
The only way that your PublishAmerica book will make it on the shelves is if you're a local author and you begged. Poorly produced, unedited, overpriced books don't generally sell very well.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Bookstores will generally stock a book that they think will sell, regardless of whether it is returnable or not, </BLOCKQUOTE>
If not returnable, if the author made special arrangements, or can guarantee that Mom and Dad and the guys in the carpool will be by to buy copies. Many bookstores do indeed have "local author" shelves. When was the last time you bought a book off that shelf?
<BLOCKQUOTE>
and regardless of whether it is printed on digital or offset presses.</BLOCKQUOTE>
A total red herring.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Please do not judge a bookstore's corporate policy by what one local manager or one letter tells you.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Judge it by what bookstore managers across the country and dozens of letters tell you.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
You can find stories on our website about, for example, two Borders locations in one town: one manager insists that he cannot carry a book, the other orders 40 copies. </BLOCKQUOTE>
You can find stories on your website (until you delete them) of bookstore managers refusing to touch PublishAmerica books, and of national headquarters cancelling orders for PA books that local bookstore managers placed.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Bookstore managers are human, they have strengths and weaknesses like all of us, they can make good judgment calls and bad ones. One will like your book, the other may not.</BLOCKQUOTE>
The bookstore managers that fill their shelves with unsalable, non-returnable books ... don't last long. Figure out for yourself which ones made bad judgment calls.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Also worthy of note, most of your books are physically, actually, in stock at Ingram, with copies in their Oregon and Tennessee warehouses, and at a Barnes and Noble distribution center, ready to ship immediately.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Big whoop. That means you ran off three copies. Since you're already sending the author two "free" copies, that means for each title you're getting five printed up.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
A Vice President at Barnes and Noble wrote us a letter recently,</BLOCKQUOTE>
How recently? They've been using this same letter for at least two years.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
saying, "We very much believe in print-on-demand (POD) technology as a cost-effective tool available for publishers to extend the range of their title offerings to Barnes & Noble... We believe that POD represents an opportunity to increase the range of titles we offer... We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..." </BLOCKQUOTE>
That must have been before B&N sold off its digital printing equipment to Lightning Source (last August) and before B&N decreased its investment in iUniverse from 49% to 22%.
Since it's demonstrably true that B&N doesn't "stock every title" that PA publishes, one wonders what else was in this letter, who it was addressed to, what was deleted in those elipses, and what question it was answering in the first place.
Well, shucks. About time for a line-by-line commentary on this typically mendacious twaddle from InfoCenter.
<HR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Contrary to what you may have been told by a local Barnes and Noble bookstore manager, they have no such policy at all,</BLOCKQUOTE>
Note that exactly what policy they're denying B&N has isn't specified. That makes it hard to pin down.
But no, Barnes & Noble doesn't have a policy against stocking digitally printed books. They have a policy against stocking non-returnable, overpriced, poor quality books that require payment up front (rather than in 60-90 days) and only have a short discount.
Big difference!
To quote from BN.COM's website:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Print-on-demand titles: with over one million titles already in print, and another 50,000 or more published every year, we obviously cannot carry every book that is published. Indeed, the key to print-on-demand technology is that it enables publishers to keep a vast number of titles in print and available without stocking inventory. Print-on-demand titles will continue to be featured on the Barnes & Noble.com website, and available for customer orders in our stores.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Featured on the website, and available for order. Got that? That's B&N's policy.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
and they do not categorize PublishAmerica as anything other than what we are.</BLOCKQUOTE>
A POD vanity press....
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Not only does Barnes and Noble have no policy against stocking print on demand books, Barnes and Noble actively enbraces [sic] the entire concept of Print On Demand.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
See the quote from Barnes and Noble above.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
We see lots of misconceptions, in this thread and elsewhere, on the returnability issue. The facts refuting this are very plain and easy to offer as evidence. Non-returnable books are the direction that the industry is taking, and what you're hearing is not at all true, of course.</BLOCKQUOTE>
This is a plain lie. Offering the facts would be a refreshing change.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Just as one example, PublishAmerica has an account with Barnes and Noble and many other bookstores, including chains, and they buy our books all the time.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, so they have an account. They have to get those books that the authors' families and friends order somehow. "They buy our books all the time"? Sure, every time Aunt Mable orders one....
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Please see this thread and many others like it, and the additional info below:
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/8622.htm
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
No publisher guarantees book sales to bookstores.</BLOCKQUOTE>
True enough. Much like no auto manufacturer guarantees auto sales through car lots. They don't need to make that guarantee. They're in business to sell books to the general public. How else is the general public to get those books?
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Major chain bookstores have no policy against stocking non-returnable books.</BLOCKQUOTE>
They merely refuse to do so.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, Barnes and Noble has quadrupled the number of books they order from PublishAmerica during the past year. </BLOCKQUOTE>
"Ordered from" is not the same as "stocked." Note the weasel-wording. With 8,000 happy authors now (up from a claimed 5,000 last year), I can well imagine that the number of orders has increased.
A term like "quadrupled" is hard to pin down, though. A real number would be helpful. If last year one book was ordered through B&N and this year four were ordered, that would be quadrupling -- but four sales is still pretty pathetic.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Thousands, each and every month, of PublishAmerica books are sold in bookstores. Hundreds of bookstores across the nation stock our books.</BLOCKQUOTE>
8,000 happy authors, each getting his family and friends to special-order their books, can work out to thousands "sold in bookstores," if by "sold in bookstores" we mean that's where the money changed hands, over at the Special Order desk. Hundreds of bookstores stock their books? (Note that distinction between "sold" and "stocked.") Let's see -- 8,000 happy authors, each pestering their local bookstores to please, please, please, stock a copy on consignment ... if 5% of those happy authors are successful, then one or another PublishAmerica book will be stocked (in dribs and drabs, by ones and twos) in "hundreds" of bookstore.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
PublishAmerica books have the same chance of making it onto a bookstore shelf as do the books of any publisher.</BLOCKQUOTE>
A lie.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
It may be of interest that less than one percent of all authors ever see their books stocked by bookstores at all. </BLOCKQUOTE>
I wonder where they get this statistic? Does it mean that most people who write books don't manage to sell them? When you figure that around 98-99% of all books get rejected -- then you figure in the textbooks and such that don't usually get bookstore distribution -- yeah, I think they're counting "all authors" as meaning "everyone who ever tried typing a book."
<BLOCKQUOTE>
For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space each and every day.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Which they make up for by stripping and returning 15 feet of books per day.
Now how big is fifteen feet of shelf space? Figure one bookshelf, twenty feet long by five rows high. 15 feet of shelf space would be 15% of that. How many linear feet of bookshelf does your average Barnes & Noble, Borders, or Books A Million superstore have? Thousands of feet? A million linear feet?
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Therefore bookstore managers must be selective, so they decide based on what that they think will sell. If they do think it will sell, they will stock it, and vice versa. So, if your book is romance and the store's shelves are overflowing with romance novels, the odds are they won't stock it. And, if your book is a history of agriculture in Tupelo County, Mississippi, the bookstore manager in Seattle may feel the same way.</BLOCKQUOTE>
The only way that your PublishAmerica book will make it on the shelves is if you're a local author and you begged. Poorly produced, unedited, overpriced books don't generally sell very well.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Bookstores will generally stock a book that they think will sell, regardless of whether it is returnable or not, </BLOCKQUOTE>
If not returnable, if the author made special arrangements, or can guarantee that Mom and Dad and the guys in the carpool will be by to buy copies. Many bookstores do indeed have "local author" shelves. When was the last time you bought a book off that shelf?
<BLOCKQUOTE>
and regardless of whether it is printed on digital or offset presses.</BLOCKQUOTE>
A total red herring.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Please do not judge a bookstore's corporate policy by what one local manager or one letter tells you.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Judge it by what bookstore managers across the country and dozens of letters tell you.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
You can find stories on our website about, for example, two Borders locations in one town: one manager insists that he cannot carry a book, the other orders 40 copies. </BLOCKQUOTE>
You can find stories on your website (until you delete them) of bookstore managers refusing to touch PublishAmerica books, and of national headquarters cancelling orders for PA books that local bookstore managers placed.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Bookstore managers are human, they have strengths and weaknesses like all of us, they can make good judgment calls and bad ones. One will like your book, the other may not.</BLOCKQUOTE>
The bookstore managers that fill their shelves with unsalable, non-returnable books ... don't last long. Figure out for yourself which ones made bad judgment calls.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Also worthy of note, most of your books are physically, actually, in stock at Ingram, with copies in their Oregon and Tennessee warehouses, and at a Barnes and Noble distribution center, ready to ship immediately.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Big whoop. That means you ran off three copies. Since you're already sending the author two "free" copies, that means for each title you're getting five printed up.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
A Vice President at Barnes and Noble wrote us a letter recently,</BLOCKQUOTE>
How recently? They've been using this same letter for at least two years.
<BLOCKQUOTE>
saying, "We very much believe in print-on-demand (POD) technology as a cost-effective tool available for publishers to extend the range of their title offerings to Barnes & Noble... We believe that POD represents an opportunity to increase the range of titles we offer... We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..." </BLOCKQUOTE>
That must have been before B&N sold off its digital printing equipment to Lightning Source (last August) and before B&N decreased its investment in iUniverse from 49% to 22%.
Since it's demonstrably true that B&N doesn't "stock every title" that PA publishes, one wonders what else was in this letter, who it was addressed to, what was deleted in those elipses, and what question it was answering in the first place.
astonwest
Re: sigh
I do have to agree with the notion that bookstore managers are human...the problem comes from the fact everyone in PA-land always comes at this from the wrong side of the equation.
Corporate policy is as Jim stated, not to buy these types of books (no, there is nothing stated that says "no POD" or "no PA", but the restrictions in place make certain they don't get stocked)
Yes, bookstore managers are human, but this is not to say they *decide against* stocking PA books because of it. In fact, the opposite is true. Corporate does not want their stores to order these books, but because the managers are human, they will sometimes bend the rules for local authors.
Fortunately, I don't have to worry about it anymore, because I've since given up on promoting my book, and am looking forward to getting the next one out there with an actual publisher...
Big Daddy West
:hat
I do have to agree with the notion that bookstore managers are human...the problem comes from the fact everyone in PA-land always comes at this from the wrong side of the equation.
Corporate policy is as Jim stated, not to buy these types of books (no, there is nothing stated that says "no POD" or "no PA", but the restrictions in place make certain they don't get stocked)
Yes, bookstore managers are human, but this is not to say they *decide against* stocking PA books because of it. In fact, the opposite is true. Corporate does not want their stores to order these books, but because the managers are human, they will sometimes bend the rules for local authors.
Fortunately, I don't have to worry about it anymore, because I've since given up on promoting my book, and am looking forward to getting the next one out there with an actual publisher...
Big Daddy West
:hat
lastr
Re: PA doesn't care
www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8622.htm
I found this whole thread (referenced by the PA Info Center) to be extremely sad. So many people anxious to hear that a bookstore somewhere stocked a book or two. What bothers me most about the PA model is that they make their writers grateful for the crumbs they *might* brush their way. It reminds me of Fagan making those poor urchins beg for their dinner.
www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/8622.htm
I found this whole thread (referenced by the PA Info Center) to be extremely sad. So many people anxious to hear that a bookstore somewhere stocked a book or two. What bothers me most about the PA model is that they make their writers grateful for the crumbs they *might* brush their way. It reminds me of Fagan making those poor urchins beg for their dinner.
DeePower
The 1% of authors
PA says
************************************
No publisher guarantees book sales to bookstores. Major chain bookstores have no policy against stocking non-returnable books. Actually, Barnes and Noble has quadrupled the number of books they order from PublishAmerica during the past year. Thousands, each and every month, of PublishAmerica books are sold in bookstores. Hundreds of bookstores across the nation stock our book
**********************************
Of course no publisher guarantees book sales BUT traditional publishers pay an advance, a new author can get five figures, we did, and the only way the advance is recouped is through books sales at book stores. Traditional book publishers WANT to sell books in the thousands of copies to bookstores.
PA does NOT want to sell thousands of copies of a title to a bookstore. If they did it would put them in a cash deficit position. They would have to pay their printer within 30 days and not receive the revenue from the bookstore or distributor for at least 90 days.
There are over 1500 independent book stores, Barnes and Noble has 800 stores, Borders has 1200 and Books-a-million has 200 stores. If PA books are in hundreds that could mean as little as 200 stores only about 5% of the available stores would have to stock PA books, that's pitiful.
PA says
***************************
PublishAmerica books have the same chance of making it onto a bookstore shelf as do the books of any publisher. It may be of interest that less than one percent of all authors ever see their books stocked by bookstores at all. For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space each and every day.
***************************
This is a falsehood. Do PA books rank with the books of Random House Inc., Penguin USA, Simon & Schuster, Time Warner and HarperCollins ( these five companies account for nearly eighty percent of all book sales in the US.)? NO.
Bowkers says there are about 1.5 million books in print, the average Barnes and Noble store stocks 150,000 books that's 1% of the available books. So one could say that at any one time only 1% of authors are being stocked, but to say "less than one percent of all authors ever see their books stocked by bookstores at all." is a lie. The definition of an author is someone who has a book published, not a writer with an unpublished manuscript.
PA says
***********************
Therefore bookstore managers must be selective, so they decide based on what that they think will sell. If they do think it will sell, they will stock it, and vice versa
**************************
Wrong. Barnes and Noble and Borders have buyers who are experts in the fields that they focus on. The buyers make the decision to buy based on the publishers catalog, the visit by the publisher's rep and the previous sales of that particular author or that particular subject. The local bookstore manager can order a title but must go through the home office to do it. PA has NO catalog, NO sales rep, and since 99% of their authors are first time authors, no track record. Independent bookstores make the buy decision on the same factors.
PA says
**************************
Bookstores will generally stock a book that they think will sell, regardless of whether it is returnable or not, and regardless of whether it is printed on digital or offset presses.
**************************
Not true, a nonreturnable book is simply not considered to be stocked. We surveyed 25 independent book store buyers across the country and 20 of them said they would not buy a Publish on Demand book because of the nonreturn policy and the poor quality of the book. Several of these bookstores volunteered the fact that they wouldn't even stock POD books on consigned because they hadn't been vetted, and it made the bookstores buying decision look poor.
PA says
**************************
Also worthy of note, most of your books are physically, actually, in stock at Ingram, with copies in their Oregon and Tennessee warehouses, and at a Barnes and Noble distribution center, ready to ship immediately.
*****************************
Two, two lousy copies are stocked by Ingram. Two!
The above response is not my opinion, it is based on the research we have done for "The Making of a Bestseller," Dearborn Trade, March 2005.
Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
PA says
************************************
No publisher guarantees book sales to bookstores. Major chain bookstores have no policy against stocking non-returnable books. Actually, Barnes and Noble has quadrupled the number of books they order from PublishAmerica during the past year. Thousands, each and every month, of PublishAmerica books are sold in bookstores. Hundreds of bookstores across the nation stock our book
**********************************
Of course no publisher guarantees book sales BUT traditional publishers pay an advance, a new author can get five figures, we did, and the only way the advance is recouped is through books sales at book stores. Traditional book publishers WANT to sell books in the thousands of copies to bookstores.
PA does NOT want to sell thousands of copies of a title to a bookstore. If they did it would put them in a cash deficit position. They would have to pay their printer within 30 days and not receive the revenue from the bookstore or distributor for at least 90 days.
There are over 1500 independent book stores, Barnes and Noble has 800 stores, Borders has 1200 and Books-a-million has 200 stores. If PA books are in hundreds that could mean as little as 200 stores only about 5% of the available stores would have to stock PA books, that's pitiful.
PA says
***************************
PublishAmerica books have the same chance of making it onto a bookstore shelf as do the books of any publisher. It may be of interest that less than one percent of all authors ever see their books stocked by bookstores at all. For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space each and every day.
***************************
This is a falsehood. Do PA books rank with the books of Random House Inc., Penguin USA, Simon & Schuster, Time Warner and HarperCollins ( these five companies account for nearly eighty percent of all book sales in the US.)? NO.
Bowkers says there are about 1.5 million books in print, the average Barnes and Noble store stocks 150,000 books that's 1% of the available books. So one could say that at any one time only 1% of authors are being stocked, but to say "less than one percent of all authors ever see their books stocked by bookstores at all." is a lie. The definition of an author is someone who has a book published, not a writer with an unpublished manuscript.
PA says
***********************
Therefore bookstore managers must be selective, so they decide based on what that they think will sell. If they do think it will sell, they will stock it, and vice versa
**************************
Wrong. Barnes and Noble and Borders have buyers who are experts in the fields that they focus on. The buyers make the decision to buy based on the publishers catalog, the visit by the publisher's rep and the previous sales of that particular author or that particular subject. The local bookstore manager can order a title but must go through the home office to do it. PA has NO catalog, NO sales rep, and since 99% of their authors are first time authors, no track record. Independent bookstores make the buy decision on the same factors.
PA says
**************************
Bookstores will generally stock a book that they think will sell, regardless of whether it is returnable or not, and regardless of whether it is printed on digital or offset presses.
**************************
Not true, a nonreturnable book is simply not considered to be stocked. We surveyed 25 independent book store buyers across the country and 20 of them said they would not buy a Publish on Demand book because of the nonreturn policy and the poor quality of the book. Several of these bookstores volunteered the fact that they wouldn't even stock POD books on consigned because they hadn't been vetted, and it made the bookstores buying decision look poor.
PA says
**************************
Also worthy of note, most of your books are physically, actually, in stock at Ingram, with copies in their Oregon and Tennessee warehouses, and at a Barnes and Noble distribution center, ready to ship immediately.
*****************************
Two, two lousy copies are stocked by Ingram. Two!
The above response is not my opinion, it is based on the research we have done for "The Making of a Bestseller," Dearborn Trade, March 2005.
Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
SimonSays
PA doesn't care
I think you need to keep in mind, that most of those "authors" would never get published anyway.
So the crumbs they are getting at least let them taste the gourmet food, as they will never get a table at the restaurant.
Those who have a shot at real publication will wisen up eventually - many with help from boards like this one. They will take PA as a learning experience, and be savier with their next book.
It seems that a lot of the PA'ers who post on this board have done just that.
I think you need to keep in mind, that most of those "authors" would never get published anyway.
So the crumbs they are getting at least let them taste the gourmet food, as they will never get a table at the restaurant.
Those who have a shot at real publication will wisen up eventually - many with help from boards like this one. They will take PA as a learning experience, and be savier with their next book.
It seems that a lot of the PA'ers who post on this board have done just that.
lastr
Re: PA doesn't care
The sad fact remains that the few who *wise up* pay a horrendous price to do so.
On another note, if anyone has missed the Bly threads on the PA board they have either not posted about it or the posts have been deleted. So either happy delusion or they are too afraid of Marcus Mouth to say anything.
The sad fact remains that the few who *wise up* pay a horrendous price to do so.
On another note, if anyone has missed the Bly threads on the PA board they have either not posted about it or the posts have been deleted. So either happy delusion or they are too afraid of Marcus Mouth to say anything.
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