The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

You want NASTY from PublishAmerica

This is from an email that they sent to us May 20th.

Begin Quote from PublishAmerica email
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"Again, the tone of your letter is way out of place. Soon we will sell our one millionth book! Neither your fax nor your registered letter reached the intended recipient. Future paper letters from you will be discarded unread. If, after reading our bulleted refutations below, you still wish to end your contract, please renew your request, using [email protected] as your sole point of contact.

None of it what we say is nonsense, and all of it is exactly, completely accurate. What is nonsense is your tone, your drama, and your whole escapade. There is no drama, no problem, no attorneys in New York, and no issues at all. What there appears to be is a simple request for contract termination. We will deal with that request without any special consideration at all.

You do not need baseless jabs, drama, or a lawyer to request termination of your contract. We will consider your request at our next review meeting, to be held at our leisure, probably within the next month or so. Our decision on your contract will be made with disregard for your tone and ridiculous and baseless accusations. Your communications with us will not be made known to the committee making the decision, and your untrue statements will not be considered.

Your statements are so naive, so false, and so totally baseless that it is difficult to even respond to them, but we'll make a brief attempt.
***************************
End of Quote from PublishAmerica email.

It goes on and gets worse.

This is how they treat their authors, discourteous, rude and condescending.

BTW, the attorneys we supposedly don't have, have contacted PA. We have instructed our law firm to use whatever means is necessary to terminate the contract.

What can we all do to warn writers about PublishAmerica? Beyond posting at boards like this one?

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

Re: We are interviewing the book editors at the NYT & LA

>> I'd like to know why they mostly avoid genre fiction.<<

Yeah, that would be my question too. Why no regular sf/fantasy and mystery columns?

- Victoria

Re: We are interviewing the book editors at the NYT & LA

(laughs bitterly)

Re: You want NASTY from PublishAmerica

They're throwing out lawyer letters unread?

I bet they at least open the envelopes to see if maybe there are checks enclosed.

Re: impressive

Way back on the first of April (April Fools?) we heard:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Today we are welcoming the following authors in your midst:
*Novelist James W. Bennett came from Simon and Schuster with "Harvey Potter Does Dallas". Mr. Bennett was also published by Scholastic, of Harry Potter fame.
*Richard C. Mears joins us from Simon and Schuster as well. PublishAmerica recently released his book "Anubis Rex".
*Yolanda Smith comes to us from Random House. PublishAmerica will soon release her book "Worry Free Retirement Living".
*And two weeks ago, we also reached an agreement with a top award winning, world-renowned author, who will come to us from Harper Collins. We expect the contract to be signed this week, and an announcement to be made soon.<hr></blockquote>

So..... any new word on who this top award winning, world-renowned author is? Has anyone figured out who "Yolanda Smith" is or what she published with Random House (or anyone else)?

Re: impressive

:shrug I can't imagine any writer who has been published by top publishers would lower themselves to PA. Whatever for? As a joke? I am sure their agents know of PAs reputation, and would tell them. Are these writers figments of someones imagination? Possibly to impress new writers...or try to make us feel we made a mistake about PA.( in their dreams) I don't believe it. I never read the PA board I don't belong there anyway. I read enough fantasy in book form, I don't like their version. Has anyone ever heard of any of them or their books? I can't say that I have.

Re: impressive

Some of them have been heard of ...

James W. Bennett exists, and has the credits listed. However ... a book titled Harvey Potter Does Dallas may be a problem if it's a Porno Parody of Harry Potter (as the title suggests). Scholastic's legal department might have said "No way, dude." If this comes out, we'll see what PA's indemnity clause looks like.

Richard C. Mears is real. His previous book, from an imprint of Simon & Schuster, came out 24 years ago. He copyrighted Anubis Rex eighteen years ago. It's either been in his desk drawer or in a slush pile ever since. It's unlikely that he turned down a professional publishing contract in order to go with PA.

Concerning Yolanda Smith: There's a Yolanda Smith who teaches at Yale, but she was published by Pilgrim Press, not Random House.

And the "top award winning, world-renowned author" is ... well, have they made the announcement yet? They said they'd announce it "soon," but that was two and half months ago.

Re: impressive

Interesting James, So they do exist but couldn't publish those books most likely with any of their regular publishers so went slumming to PA. A porn book, didn't think PA did those though didn't they publish one that looked like one? I thought the same as you did about the HP though wondering if it were underage porn. Not good. I wonder how they compare to most of the books at PA. Guess its their turn to get made fun of by critics when they see those books. They are going in with their eyes wide open I would think.
Does most message boards have warnings about PA? Wondering how many people have seem them and turned away. PA must be getting their authors from those ads in magazines, where there are no warnings.

Re: impressive

Hey, it happens. Lots of established authors have an unsaleable manuscript or two kicking around. Right off the top of my head I could name you three well-known authors in one popular publishing category who've got finished novels they've been shopping around for years.

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Blaming those writers for someone taking advantage of that lack of knowledge isn't fair, either. They didn't ask to be deceived.<hr></blockquote>
DaveKuzminski:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not excusing PA but the author must accept some of the responsibility as well (right or wrong). Ignorance, in my book, isn’t an excuse. Have I been taken advantage of in the past? Sure. Has it taught me to research anything that is important to me before investing in it? Absolutely.

As for your analogy - If your bank hangs a sign on its door that says “Our safe is open, we have no security guards or cameras, and everyone is out to lunch” they’re inviting someone to rob them. Is the robber still responsible? Yes, but whom are you going to hold most responsible?

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

Yes, but whom are you going to hold most responsible?

The robber.

I am always responsible for my own moral behavior.

Re: impressive

Wow, I'm sure the bank will be happy that they've been absolved of all blame.

Don't get me wrong here - all I'm advocating here is personal responsibility. If a writer doesn't want to research a publisher or agent before he deals with them and get's screwed by them I'll sympathize with them and hope they learn next time. If they do the same thing with the next agent or publisher and get screwed again...that old saying that ends with "...shame on me" comes to mind.

Uh-uh

Nameless65, you've got the sequence in the wrong order. Banks didn't start out with all those things. Those came about because they took action to improve the security of the bank to protect the money they were entrusted with because they discovered that people would rob them otherwise.

Consider this as well. If you don't have any reason to distrust a source, do you distrust it? Remember that the source you're considering may boast of a satisfactory rating from the BBB and might not be listed on a top ten warrant from the government. So, do you distrust it in light of the fact that it's slid by, unbeknownst to you, on mere technicalities or because the amounts in question weren't high enough on the radar to trigger a full scale government criminal investigation?

Now remember, the average new writer won't know about private sites such as this one or Writer Beware or P&E. So, the new writer is left with checking the known places such as the BBB and the government after seeing the widespread ads. Okay, who's to blame? The writer or the company victimizing the writer? The writer did his research. It's not his fault that the company in question has used gags to suppress warnings from many of those who succeeded in getting out of their clutches.

Now let's talk about the other examples. Are you going to blame a woman for being molested? Is it the fault of a kid who wears glasses for being picked upon? You already stated it's the bank's fault for being robbed. Do you hold similar feelings for those other examples?

Re: impressive

I agree with Nameless.

I am not absolving PA of their sins. But let's face it, anyone who wants to be published has a responsiblity to learn about the publishing industry. And anyone who had done any research at all would know that:

PA books are not in brick and mortar stores and that only a small percentage of their titles are available online.

PA royalties are not calculated in the same manner as the industry standard.

That traditional publishers do not print on demand, print thousands of copies at a time, and unlike PA handle distribution and marketing of their titles.

That no PA titles are on any bestseller list.

That no mass market titles have ever been published by PA.

That the PA book pricing structure is not in line with other publishers.

Anyone with a calculator could look at the numbers authors/books sold and realize that average gross sales per title is abysmal - and at the very least, shows horrendous marketing abilities. THAT alone would make someone think twice. It they have demonstrated a lack of ability to sell their titles, why would you pick them regardless of what promises they make?

There is a lot of self-deception here on the part of the authors who sign with PA. And yes, ignorance may be a part of it, but they CHOSE to be ignorant. They chose not to do the research. In the internet age, there is no excuse for this. Information is just a mouseclick away.

Those who have been published previously by traditional houses are even more culpable. They read the PA contract, they KNEW that the royalties were calculated differently than their past contracts. They KNEW that the other publishers handled distribution. And yet they signed that contract anyway.

While PA authors may be misled, there seems to me to be a certain willingness on their part to be misled. And a certain unwillingness to take responsiblility for a bad decision.

Re: impressive

“If you don't have any reason to distrust a source, do you distrust it?”
Trust is earned. Even if I don’t outright distrust something/someone in the back of my mind I at least consider that this person or thing *could* rip me off. Now if someone does do a little research and they come up empty – okay they’ve at least *tried*. There are no guarantees anywhere but to not do ANY research? That’s foolish.

“Okay, who's to blame? The writer or the company victimizing the writer? The writer did his research.”
The company of course. As long as the writer did his best to check on them and not blindly cut them a check.

“Now let's talk about the other examples. Are you going to blame a woman for being molested? Is it the fault of a kid who wears glasses for being picked upon? You already stated it's the bank's fault for being robbed. Do you hold similar feelings for those other examples?”
Do you lock your car when you leave it somewhere? How about your house at night? Of course you do – you are taking precautions. That’s what my post was about – taking precautions. When that woman went up *alone* to Mike Tyson’s hotel room and he raped her I thought, “you were nuts to go up there” – was it her fault? No way! But she was very, very foolish in my book.

Look, all I’m saying is that there are predators, con artists, thieves out there. Anyone over 5 years old knows this and should take some steps to protect themselves against these people. You got the mistaken idea that I was saying that it’s ALWAYS the victims fault. I wasn’t.

wrong, wrong, wrong

*******************************
"And anyone who had done any research at all would know that:

PA books are not in brick and mortar stores and that only a small percentage of their titles are available online."
*******************************

How would an author know that? This is from PublishAmerica Facts and figures

FACT #4: Each day, an average 12 times a PublishAmerica author is invited to do a book signing or another in-store event at a bookstore or a library. An average 250 times each day, a bookstore calls or logs on to order a PublishAmerica title. Of all the brick-and-mortar bookstores, Barnes and Noble is our largest customer. Borders/Waldenbooks and Books-A-Million are second and third.
End of quote from website.

BTW 5026 PA titles are available for purchase at amazon.com. Not that that makes a difference because only six are offered with the customer expected discount of 30%.

*************************
"PA royalties are not calculated in the same manner as the industry standard."
*************************

How would an author know? I have contracts for three nonfiction books with major houses and all three have different royalty calculations.

************************
"That traditional publishers do not print on demand, print thousands of copies at a time, and unlike PA handle distribution and marketing of their titles."
*************************

Again how would an author know? From the PA web site

FACT #5: PublishAmerica is NOT in any way a POD, vanity press, or subsidy publisher, and has nothing in common with them. Obviously, our authors are also not being self-published. In the most commonly used context, POD indicates "Publish On Demand", or vanity publishing. Vanity publishers charge for their "services". Some charge a few hundred dollars, others a thousand or more. We are not in that league, in any way, shape or fashion.
end of PA web site quote.

Additionally traditional publishers, especially small presses use print on demand all the time.

**********************************
"That no PA titles are on any bestseller list."
**********************************

This isn't valid, there are hundreds of publishers, probably thousands, that have never had a title on a bestseller list.

********************************
"That no mass market titles have ever been published by PA."
*********************************

How would an author know, unless they checked every PA title listed on say, amazon.com. And there are publishers who don't do mass market paperbacks.

**********************************
"That the PA book pricing structure is not in line with other publishers."
**********************************

I give you this point, although when you look at the average trade paperback price, which I believe is around $18.00, the pricing of PA is not horrendously out of line. What you have to consider is that most fiction published in paperback is mass market at around $8.00, not in trade paperback. But how would a new author know that?

********************************
"Anyone with a calculator could look at the numbers authors/books sold and realize that average gross sales per title is abysmal - and at the very least, shows horrendous marketing abilities. THAT alone would make someone think twice. It they have demonstrated a lack of ability to sell their titles, why would you pick them regardless of what promises they make?"
*********************************

How would an author make this calculation? The sales information isn't on the PublishAmerica website. The only reason I can figure it out, sort of, is because they sent me an email saying they are getting close to selling their millionth book, "Soon we will sell our one millionth book!" or they have sold 250,000 books in the last two years, which was also in the same email to me "In the past two years we have sold more than a quarter of a million books, which stands in contrast to any allegation that our books are not competitively priced and/or supplied."

***********************************
"There is a lot of self-deception here on the part of the authors who sign with PA. And yes, ignorance may be a part of it, but they CHOSE to be ignorant. They chose not to do the research. In the internet age, there is no excuse for this. Information is just a mouseclick away.

Those who have been published previously by traditional houses are even more culpable. They read the PA contract, they KNEW that the royalties were calculated differently than their past contracts. They KNEW that the other publishers handled distribution. And yet they signed that contract anyway."
**********************************

I did NOT know or have any reason to know two years ago when the contract was signed that PA handled distribution differently. It is only after a year of frustration that I have learned that PA does not do what they say on their web site they do.

I agree there were some discussions on some writers' boards that PublishAmerica was a vanity publisher, but nearly as much as now. I think it took the two years time for authors like myself to realize we got ripped. To realize that no matter what we did as far as promoting the book, getting good reviews, newspaper articles and such that our books were not going to be carried in bricks and mortar stores. In fact The Borders store here said that our title was not in their system even to be ordered.

Oh, here’s what PA said when we told them that

From an email from [email protected] May 20, 2004

- Sales director: Your statement is incorrect. The sales director you
mentioned is wrong. All bookstores have access to Ingram's computer system, and all of our titles may be found there. Additionally, all bookstore managers know this.
end quote from PA email.

Well she couldn’t order it, and when she realized it was a PublishAmerica book refused to consider a book signing.


***********************************
"While PA authors may be misled, there seems to me to be a certain willingness on their part to be misled. And a certain unwillingness to take responsibility for a bad decision."
***********************************

It's far worse than misled, it's being lied to. PA does not sell the majority of its books to bricks and mortar book stores as their website states. No where on their site or in the contract do they mention that PublishAmerica books are non returnable by bookstores and that they do not offer the standard discount to bookstores.

Barnes and Noble requires any PA author to send in two copies to their small press division for consideration for stocking and invariably declines on the basis the book is inferior. If PA was a traditional publisher they would contact B&N. But why bother, the no return policy is the kiss of death for bookstores. And how would an author know that?

And I do take responsibility for a bad decision, we will proceed to litigation, if necessary, to terminate our contract with PublishAmerica.

I know the trolls from PA screen these boards.

Dee Power
NOT a PA (piss ass) author.
www.brianhillanddeepower.com

taking responsiblity

Dee-

As I said in my previous posting, I do not absolve PA of their sins, I do no condone what they do. But we all have a personal responsibility. And if you rely solely on the information dispensed to you by the person who's trying to sell you something, whether it's a publishing contract, shares of stock or a car, then you are a fool - and you bear some reponsibility for a lack of due diligence.

As for where people are supposed to find this information. Most bookstores have books about the publishing industry. If your local bookstore doesn't there's Amazon, Powell's etc. There are thousands of websites with information. There's trade publications. Market Guides. The information is out there if you bother to look.

I knew nothing about the publishing industry when I started working on my novel, but I have dedicated an awful lot of time learning what I need to know so that I can achieve the goals that I set for myself.

I do wish you luck getting out of your contract, but perhaps if you had done a little due diligence, you wouldn't have signed it in the first place.

Re: impressive

I knew nothing about the publishing industry when I started working on my novel, but I have dedicated an awful lot of time learning what I need to know so that I can achieve the goals that I set for myself.

Click to expand...

I have done the same, but not until I learned a few hard lessons when I was younger. (most of these lessons involved sending submissions to places that do not accept unsolicited manuscripts and also to a few vanity presses. Of course, I was too poor at the time to pay for anything, so I didn't get hoodwinked).

I believe that we all have personal responsibility, but many beginning writers have no idea how the publishing industry works. Do you blame a child for burning their hand on a hot stove, or do you blame the parent for not telling them everything they needed to know about hot things?

Not to say that writers don't have a certain set of responsibilities, but you can't expect them, especially those with the basic idea that publishers make books and send them to bookstores, to even have a clue that they will get scammed.

If my grandma wrote a book and submitted it, with the help of one of her granddaughters, to PA, i wouldn't really blame her. My grandma doesn't really know that much about the internet, let alone basic research skills. Hell, she worked in a light bulb factory when she was younger and now she's a waitress.

Is it her fault she was scammed? How would she know any better. People get scammed everyday because the scammers appear legit. That's why the scam works. It earns your trust and admiration, and then cleans you out. If everyone knew that they had to responsible in this manner, then there would be very few scams out there. But, as you can see by the amount of material on the Background Check board, many are scammed.

In fact, as has been mentioned, there are several kinds of PA users:

1. Groundfloor Fanatics -- These members believe they've gotten onto the ground floor of a revolutionary publisher who's going to take them, and the other 7000 authors, to the stars.
2. Denial Fanatics -- Things are working out for these kids like they wanted them to, so they keep spewing the quotes on the site.
3. Squinters -- These writers are opening their eyes, but the truth hurts. They start to ask hard questions and then get taken down by other members or banned.
4. Repentant Writers -- Willing to admit that PA scammed them, knowingly or unknowingly, and are ready to move on, only if they can wrestle their rights from PA.

Now then, there is a fifth group -- those who PA really works for. Let's face it, PA is a nice service for a select few with a built in audience. It's a way to avoid the startup cost of vanity and to pass on the bulk of the press payment to the consumer. This group is rare and lacks in sufficient numbers to maintain the press. So we defer to the larger percentage, groups 1-4.

More to think about

Not everyone can afford to hop down to the nearest bookstore and order a book on how to find a publisher or agent. This is too frequently the case in the instances of those who are fleeced.

Not every library has a copy, let alone a recent copy, of the reference books that would help a new writer. I know. I tried to find such books when I started. Most libraries concentrate their funds on references that will help more than just one or two individuals in a community. In other words, most libraries don't have those. Those that do tend to have copies that are out of date and barely useful.

Many new writers aren't even certain they can trust the watchdog sites because of repeated attempts to discredit those by some of those businesses for which the watchdog sites have issued warnings. In their eyes, it becomes a he said--she said type of argument. In the absence of other warnings, it's only too easy to fall into the trap.

The point I'm making is that some businesses have deliberately, I repeat, deliberately taken steps to lure writers into becoming victims. Under those circumstances, it is not right to blame the victim. No one deserves to be victimized. And no, not everyone over five knows the difference. If that was the case, we wouldn't have laws protecting minors.

As well, the Internet isn't like a real city where you can tell by the condition of the neighborhood whether it's relatively safe or dangerous to negotiate. The scammers know this and use it to their advantage.

By the way, you don't even have to leave your home in what you believe to be a nice safe neighborhood to be victimized by a violent criminal. There are only too many of them willing to break into your home even while you're there.

The point I'm making is that it's always the fault of the victimizer and not the victim in cases such as these. There would be no victim without the victimizer. Consequently, it is the victimizer's fault. That is how courts view such matters. Judges do not tell criminals that they'll impose only half the sentence since the victim helped by being deceived.

Well said

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
1. Groundfloor Fanatics --
2. Denial Fanatics --
3. Squinters --
4. Repentant Writers --<hr></blockquote>
I know you didn't mean to be funny since this is hardly a laughing matter. But I found this to be entertaining only because your insights are so beautifully worded. Great job.

Re: impressive

thanks

i do try to add a bit of humor, it helps to keep (at least me) grounded.

Reality Check

Dave -

I truly admire what you do. I think you provide an invaluable service to writers and I hope you continue. That said, I think you are so impassioned about this, that you may have lost a little perspective.

I do not think you can equate what PA does to a "violent crime" as you did. They do not harm you physically in any way and they don't even take or swindle your money - they sell you your own books - at a discount. This is not quite the same thing as raping you, beating you over the head or bilking you out of your life savings.

And yes I realize they mislead and lie, and while nothing excuses what they do, this appears to be more of a civil than a criminal matter. And the fact is that in civil cases, sometimes a judge or jury will take into consideration the culpability of the victim when they impose penalties on the defendant. There are many cases where they find in favor of the plaintiff and award them $1.00. And even if it is criminal, this is a crime that requires a willing, proactive victim. PA does not put a gun to anyone's head and force them to sign a contract.

As for 'doing the research'. I think anyone who is serious about pursuing a career in any given field, should take it upon themselves to find out a little bit about that field. Not having the money, is no excuse. When I moved to LA in the mid-90's I could not afford the hundreds of dollars it costs to buy the Creative Directory or similar publications. There was no internet. So I went to Barnes & Noble with a pen and a pad. I looked through books I could not afford to buy, I took notes, made lists. I took responsibility for my own career, my own choices. I found a way to get the information I needed. There is even less excuse these days for not researching things for yourself. While many libraries may not have the types of books you mentioned, most do have computers with free internet access. And there are all sorts of informational sites on the web, not just watchdog sites. Sites run by different publishing or writing organizations. Sites on some educationual institution websites, man that provide only factual information and are opinion free.

As for people getting conflicting information. You can lead a horse to water… If a person receives two opposing viewpoints on a particular subject, the prudent thing to do is to seek out a 3rd independent opinion and/or research further on your own to form your own opinion. If you choose to go with the person who says what you want hear, that is a your choice, albeit a bad choice, and you have no one to blame but yourself for the consequences of that choice. Anyone who has read the posts on these boards or gone to P&E and signs with PA anyway, has no one to blame but themselves. They are not victims.

As for emeralcite’s assertion that there is a small, select group that PA really works for. I disagree that it’s a “small group” – to the contrary I believe that PA works for the vast majority of the writers – because they haven’t got a shot in hell of being published anywhere else. I’ve checked out the PA boards, where many members are eager to share snippets of their work. Stuff that could not possibly, under any circumstances ever be published by a traditional house. Stuff that all the editing in the world wouldn’t help. Stuff that is just plain bad, written by people who just plain cannot write.

And the reason that PA is able to suck so many of them in, is because they like thinking of themselves as authors, but they are NOT serious about their craft. They are not serious about their careers. If they were they would have DONE the research.

If PA is breaching its contract, it should be easy enough to break the contract. If they make claims in their marketing materials, but do not include those things in the contract – then once again, I think some of the responsibility lies with the writer for not thoroughly reading the contract, or better still showing it to a lawyer. And before you say it, yes, I realize that not everyone can afford a lawyer.

The point is that we all have to take a certain amount of responsibility for the choices we make. The better informed and educated we are, the better are choices. Whether or not to get informed and educated is a choice in itself.

I hope you continue to warn people about PA and all the scammers out there. But those who see your warnings and choose not to heed them do not deserve your sympathy when they realize that they’ve been had.

Re: Well said

Ahhh..it's the famous "I would be too smart to do what you did, therefore you deserve what you got" thinking. It ranks right up there with "anyway in which you are different from me makes you wrong" as one of the great self-absorbed theories.

Writers come in all sorts. If I sent a book to PA and they did what they do, I would end up feeling sheepish and a bit ticked off. I hate being had and it would be embarrassing...but I am not the all in all of writers. Some writers feel far more emotionally connected to their books. They don't feel sheepish. They don't feel had. They feel devastated. That is just as legitimate and not inferior or a sign of greater stupidity.

People have committed suicide over publishing failures...and not just losers who cannot write either. Just because writing is a profession and a deeply enjoyable job for me, doesn't mean it has to be for everyone. For some it's a kind of psychic bloodletting and their response to having someone crap on their hopes is far worse.

It's a bit like going on vacation and having your purse stolen. For me it would be inconvenient. For my mother before me, it would have been devastating. Why the difference? She lived much closer financially than I. Different people, different circumstances.

We are just tickled to pieces that you approach writing as a professional and do all the required study. So do many of us. However, some approach writing as an artist and they may not be nearly as good at study. Some others may approach their writing as a personal mission, or a emotional purging...they don't tend to be so good at taking a long cold look at research either. But their writing may be superior to mine and they are no more deserving of getting screwed than I am. No more deserving.

Those taken advantage of by PA, don't deserve it just because they did things differently from how you would have done it. The old folks suckered out of their life savings who get taken because they don't have the skeptical view of life that I do, don't deserve it. Those who have their purses snatched because they carry a purse instead of cramming everything in their front pocket like I do don't deserve to be robbed.

Cheats, thieves and shysters are the wrongdoers.
They don't get a free pass as long as they agree to only cheat those who do things differently than you or I.

Gran

Re: Well said

As for emeralcite’s assertion that there is a small, select group that PA really works for. I disagree that it’s a “small group” – to the contrary I believe that PA works for the vast majority of the writers – because they haven’t got a shot in hell of being published anywhere else.

Click to expand...

Actually, this group falls into the "denial fanatics" category. The small group that I refer to are comprised of those with non-fiction titles or titles that they use for seminars.

Those who are terrible writers, or an underpracticed, fall into the denial group. They're playing the game that Jim has outlined before. They're role-playing as writers. This, I believe, is one of the largest groups.

The smaller group would be more like that senator's intern who has done interviews and the like. You don't see these people on the boards often spewing how great PA is. PA is a vehicle to print their materials without much cost to them.

Give Me A Break

Gran - you are insulting, condescending and totally offbase. I don't care if others do what I do or don't do what I do or do anything at all - but I do wish they'd stop whining.

I have never said that PA has the right to do what they do. What I advocate is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Things like due diligence, and reading the fine print before you sign a contract - any contract. If you choose not to do so and you get taken, well you are at least in part responsible for allowing yourself to get taken, which does not absolve the other party of their crimes.

Quote:

"People have committed suicide over publishing failures"

Huh? People have committed suicide because they got bad grades, or their siginficant other left them or because they lost their job. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

As for someone "crapping on their hopes." The life of a writer is filled with rejection. From agents, publishers, critics, the public. If you don't have a thick enough skin to cope with having your hopes crapped on over and over again then I suggest you find another hobby. Chances are even if you're published by a traditional publisher the reality of publication is not going to come anywhere close to your dreams of grandeur. The dream: a bestseller and being on Oprah - The reality - being # 834 on amazon.com.

PA does not put you under some kind of servitude. Those people are free to write something else if they want and try other avenues of publication the next time around. The vast majority of authors, even successful authors, don't get their first novel published. Chalk it up to experience and move on with a little more wisdom.

This is not do or die, life or death stuff here. And if some do find it to be do or die stuff, might I suggest seeking the services of a qualified professional.

In the grand scheme of the world of the scam - PA is closer to the three card monte dealer on the streets of New York than the slick con-men who bilks little old ladies out of their life savings. And in the grand scheme of PA - they've probably made far more dreams come true for the "denial fantatics" than the number of dreams they've crushed.

Again I am not condoning what they do, just trying to put it all in some kind of perspective here.