Hoping to be "published" by PA? Look behind the cu
Hooray! Well said!
One ex PA two cents worth.
eace
Hooray! Well said!
One ex PA two cents worth.
eace
- Status
Re: Always interested...
I thought I was starting a new topic here, but insteand it posted all by its lonesome. Can some move the message that states "Almost go my paperwork" on to this board?
Thanks,
V
I thought I was starting a new topic here, but insteand it posted all by its lonesome. Can some move the message that states "Almost go my paperwork" on to this board?
Thanks,
V
Re: PA and Fanstory
I believe the only really bad thing that the fanStory.com site operator did was to take PA's word about their credentials instead of doing a thorough Internet search for further information. If he had done so and found only one complaint, that could be discounted as possibly a disgruntled writer. However, he would have found numerous complaints with even just a mediocre search.
Otherwise, I don't see him as a bad guy, so I hope folks will keep that in mind. He's being hoodwinked by PA just as it's done to many authors.
What this should tell us is that we're not getting the word out to enough of the other writing sites.
I believe the only really bad thing that the fanStory.com site operator did was to take PA's word about their credentials instead of doing a thorough Internet search for further information. If he had done so and found only one complaint, that could be discounted as possibly a disgruntled writer. However, he would have found numerous complaints with even just a mediocre search.
Otherwise, I don't see him as a bad guy, so I hope folks will keep that in mind. He's being hoodwinked by PA just as it's done to many authors.
What this should tell us is that we're not getting the word out to enough of the other writing sites.
For Molly
Molly -- as you know, I ordered a copy of There Ain't Enough Front Porches from Borders a couple of weeks back.
It came in today. Cost: $30.88 (including tax). I'm saving it and the receipt in case you need it.
Molly -- as you know, I ordered a copy of There Ain't Enough Front Porches from Borders a couple of weeks back.
It came in today. Cost: $30.88 (including tax). I'm saving it and the receipt in case you need it.
book
That was so very nice of you.
I would very much appreciate having your professional opinion of the story etc and what it needs to improve.
Thanks, I hope you enjoy it.
Molly
That was so very nice of you.
I would very much appreciate having your professional opinion of the story etc and what it needs to improve.
Thanks, I hope you enjoy it.
Molly
Well, my thread on fanStory...
...was yanked. Will be interesting to take a look back there in 6-8 months and see what the reaction to the Publish America partnership is then....
8o
...was yanked. Will be interesting to take a look back there in 6-8 months and see what the reaction to the Publish America partnership is then....
8o
Re: For Molly
I do wonder why a Print on Demand book that the publisher has lost the right to print is available through regular retail channels at all. I wonder if LSI would record a recent printing.
Will Molly get her royalty?
I do wonder why a Print on Demand book that the publisher has lost the right to print is available through regular retail channels at all. I wonder if LSI would record a recent printing.
Will Molly get her royalty?
Nope...No royalty
Speaking from experience, nope. Sorry Molly. From what I found out, PA has sold some of our books to booksellers. They will stop selling the product when they run out of inventory. Until then, so sad.
I truly believe that PA still has Molly's as well as my book on their catalog. It might not be on their web site, but for authors, there is absolutely no way for us to prove that PA did not in fact sell those copies earlier. I asked all the booksellers to give me an update of how many of my product they had in inventory. This was per Lynn's advice. They promptly did after I told them they could be liable for selling a product without rights to do so. Booksellers just didn’t want that headache. Well, when they got down to onesies and twosies, all of the sudden, my book became unavailable.
You might try that tactic Molly. In her case, I know she's contacted the booksellers numerous times. That only leads me to believe the aforementioned conclusion. PA still has her book in their catalog for sale. Bad business? I think so!
PA~
Wrong for Authors, Wrong for Americans!
I'm Ms. Easton and I approved this message. :ha
Speaking from experience, nope. Sorry Molly. From what I found out, PA has sold some of our books to booksellers. They will stop selling the product when they run out of inventory. Until then, so sad.
I truly believe that PA still has Molly's as well as my book on their catalog. It might not be on their web site, but for authors, there is absolutely no way for us to prove that PA did not in fact sell those copies earlier. I asked all the booksellers to give me an update of how many of my product they had in inventory. This was per Lynn's advice. They promptly did after I told them they could be liable for selling a product without rights to do so. Booksellers just didn’t want that headache. Well, when they got down to onesies and twosies, all of the sudden, my book became unavailable.
You might try that tactic Molly. In her case, I know she's contacted the booksellers numerous times. That only leads me to believe the aforementioned conclusion. PA still has her book in their catalog for sale. Bad business? I think so!
PA~
Wrong for Authors, Wrong for Americans!
I'm Ms. Easton and I approved this message. :ha
Re: Nope...No royalty
I wonder if the posting on page 131 about the new tactics Ingram and LSI are implementing has anything to do with continued accessibility to books no longer readily available....?:wha
-This is ridiculous,...I know this company has no morals but jeez, even some crooks draw the line somewhere!!..-
I wonder if the posting on page 131 about the new tactics Ingram and LSI are implementing has anything to do with continued accessibility to books no longer readily available....?:wha
Re:Almost finished gathering my paper work.....
to send off to all those authorities listed here.
PA says when a book stops selling, they will inforce article 24 of the contract. Well, don't you think that having two books sold the 2004 is enough to say the book is NOT selling?
I have talked with PA by email, support team of course, and they sent this silly standard message back saying that they will allow me to 1) reedit Death by Bad Magic, or, 2) retitle the book. I shot off an email telling them that I had NO intention of reediting the book since I had it professionally edited before submitting to them, and I had no desire to retitle it.
Now, you ask, why did you submit a second book to them in the first place? Well, back in 2001 I believe, when I had this crook that called herself an literary agent, and not knowing anything about PA, I allowed her to talk me into submitting The Evil Stalker to PA. In the contract I got at that time, they had the second book clause in it, so doing the right thing, I submitted my second finished manuscript to them, that being Death by Bad Magic.
I had said I wasn't going to report anything to the Maryland AG, but darn, why not? I mean, I'm the one being screwed by PA and I want a little something in return.
So, hopefully by this time next week all my paper work and information will be complete so that I may join the others in slapping something in their face, and I hate doing this, as I don't like to fight with anyone, but sometimes it takes a fight. Know what I mean?
I have kept in contact with several newspaper reporters and tv news reporters from that what happened to me and my husband in 2002, even thought about putting a bug in their ear.
I have never allowed what PA has done to stop my writing, am in the process of trying to find a good agent for my next manuscript which I have titled Deadly Encounter. Wish me luck.
Violet
to send off to all those authorities listed here.
PA says when a book stops selling, they will inforce article 24 of the contract. Well, don't you think that having two books sold the 2004 is enough to say the book is NOT selling?
I have talked with PA by email, support team of course, and they sent this silly standard message back saying that they will allow me to 1) reedit Death by Bad Magic, or, 2) retitle the book. I shot off an email telling them that I had NO intention of reediting the book since I had it professionally edited before submitting to them, and I had no desire to retitle it.
Now, you ask, why did you submit a second book to them in the first place? Well, back in 2001 I believe, when I had this crook that called herself an literary agent, and not knowing anything about PA, I allowed her to talk me into submitting The Evil Stalker to PA. In the contract I got at that time, they had the second book clause in it, so doing the right thing, I submitted my second finished manuscript to them, that being Death by Bad Magic.
I had said I wasn't going to report anything to the Maryland AG, but darn, why not? I mean, I'm the one being screwed by PA and I want a little something in return.
So, hopefully by this time next week all my paper work and information will be complete so that I may join the others in slapping something in their face, and I hate doing this, as I don't like to fight with anyone, but sometimes it takes a fight. Know what I mean?
I have kept in contact with several newspaper reporters and tv news reporters from that what happened to me and my husband in 2002, even thought about putting a bug in their ear.
I have never allowed what PA has done to stop my writing, am in the process of trying to find a good agent for my next manuscript which I have titled Deadly Encounter. Wish me luck.
Violet
Nope...No royalty
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>when they got down to onesies and twosies, all of the sudden, my book became unavailable.<hr></blockquote>
Hurray! Becca, that is great news. You are so right; these guys do not want to become embroiled in anything smacking of illegalities. They can leave that to the professionals. Face it, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>when they got down to onesies and twosies, all of the sudden, my book became unavailable.<hr></blockquote>
Hurray! Becca, that is great news. You are so right; these guys do not want to become embroiled in anything smacking of illegalities. They can leave that to the professionals. Face it, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Re: Re:Almost finished gathering my paper work.....
Thanks for moving your post over here Violet.
Thanks for moving your post over here Violet.
Post should be on each page!
Send ALL PA complaints to:
Office of the Attorney General
Consumer Protection Division-Beth Silverman
200 St. Paul Place
Baltimore, MD 21202
Good luck!
Send ALL PA complaints to:
Office of the Attorney General
Consumer Protection Division-Beth Silverman
200 St. Paul Place
Baltimore, MD 21202
Good luck!
Re: Post should be on each page!
Send hardcopy letters. Email is too easy to ignore.
Hold on to your original documents; send photocopies of your backup material.
Send hardcopy letters. Email is too easy to ignore.
Hold on to your original documents; send photocopies of your backup material.
I received this email from another PA author today
"Here is the deal. Our books are not available from Ingram no matter what anyone tells you. This means our distribution is limited to PA, and the online bookstores. However, Amazon has already begun attaching ‘special order’ fees of $1.99 to some PA books. Other online stores like Powell’s Books and Books A Million are pricing our books way above retail to make up the difference. Yes, Ingram will have our Isbns in their computer system, but that is all, for now. On the Lightning Source website (the company that prints the books) they say they are working on a new method of distribution for POD books but it will not be implemented until the first quarter of 2005. They do not explain it well.
"If PA would step in and either do a deal like I Universe did then bookstores could order our books, and authors like me could do fundraisers for charities. The other thing would be to change their status from a POD publisher to a traditional publisher with a return on books."
She had a meeting with a rep from Waldenbooks who told her he would definitely stock her book due to a fundraiser she is holding. When he checked her ISBN numbers he told her he couldn't order them because there was no stock and it would mean backorders - there is a fee to the bookstore to order backorders.
Needless to say, she is quite upset.
:cry
"Here is the deal. Our books are not available from Ingram no matter what anyone tells you. This means our distribution is limited to PA, and the online bookstores. However, Amazon has already begun attaching ‘special order’ fees of $1.99 to some PA books. Other online stores like Powell’s Books and Books A Million are pricing our books way above retail to make up the difference. Yes, Ingram will have our Isbns in their computer system, but that is all, for now. On the Lightning Source website (the company that prints the books) they say they are working on a new method of distribution for POD books but it will not be implemented until the first quarter of 2005. They do not explain it well.
"If PA would step in and either do a deal like I Universe did then bookstores could order our books, and authors like me could do fundraisers for charities. The other thing would be to change their status from a POD publisher to a traditional publisher with a return on books."
She had a meeting with a rep from Waldenbooks who told her he would definitely stock her book due to a fundraiser she is holding. When he checked her ISBN numbers he told her he couldn't order them because there was no stock and it would mean backorders - there is a fee to the bookstore to order backorders.
Needless to say, she is quite upset.
:cry
I received this email from another PA author today
I am so very sorry for her. The problem is that new authors or authors that sign with POD and do NOT understand what they are agreeing to, get really hurt in the end. Ingram's no matter how wonderful they are - is the SOLE distributor for most POD or for that matter books on the market today. This means that if they do not stock or sell PA books, you are very much dead in the water of even selling to family or friends, not to mention readers. It's a sad day for her. She needs to get out of her contract. If they cannot provide the book for retail sale, I think they may be in breech of their contract? Consult an attorney, but she may have grounds. I wish her luck.
|I
I am so very sorry for her. The problem is that new authors or authors that sign with POD and do NOT understand what they are agreeing to, get really hurt in the end. Ingram's no matter how wonderful they are - is the SOLE distributor for most POD or for that matter books on the market today. This means that if they do not stock or sell PA books, you are very much dead in the water of even selling to family or friends, not to mention readers. It's a sad day for her. She needs to get out of her contract. If they cannot provide the book for retail sale, I think they may be in breech of their contract? Consult an attorney, but she may have grounds. I wish her luck.
|I
How can anyone be sure...
I received my exit papers from PA yesterday, but am leery about signing them - since it seems, from others experiences, that it doesn't make a whit of a difference in the actual book being removed. All it seems to do is slap a gag order on you to talk about it but doesn't get it removed from Amazon or any other site. Molly's experience illustrates that even if you agree to their paperwork you still can't get the book out of the public eye AND you end up losing royalties (not that it's a lot, but it's the principle...)
so... what's a gal to do?
I received my exit papers from PA yesterday, but am leery about signing them - since it seems, from others experiences, that it doesn't make a whit of a difference in the actual book being removed. All it seems to do is slap a gag order on you to talk about it but doesn't get it removed from Amazon or any other site. Molly's experience illustrates that even if you agree to their paperwork you still can't get the book out of the public eye AND you end up losing royalties (not that it's a lot, but it's the principle...)
so... what's a gal to do?
Re: How can anyone be sure...
so... what's a gal to do?
Talk to a lawyer.
Do not sign the reversion agreement until you're happy with it.
so... what's a gal to do?
Talk to a lawyer.
Do not sign the reversion agreement until you're happy with it.
I have to agree with James
I know it's really hard to have that piece of paper in your hand and not send it back signed. Just remember two things. 1. Some of us didn’t have to sign a gag order and it's not standard practice for them to give it to you. 2. The minute you sign that release, PA and the Attorney General's office (Who told me specifically) that any future claims against PA will be regarded as "resolved." If there is one piece of advice that I have can share that I have learned through all this that is take your time, consult a lawyer for your best interests and don't be so quick to take the easy road out of your contract. After all, it was too easy to be picked up by PA and look where that got us!
I sincerely wish you the best of luck in whatever you do.
:snoopy
I know it's really hard to have that piece of paper in your hand and not send it back signed. Just remember two things. 1. Some of us didn’t have to sign a gag order and it's not standard practice for them to give it to you. 2. The minute you sign that release, PA and the Attorney General's office (Who told me specifically) that any future claims against PA will be regarded as "resolved." If there is one piece of advice that I have can share that I have learned through all this that is take your time, consult a lawyer for your best interests and don't be so quick to take the easy road out of your contract. After all, it was too easy to be picked up by PA and look where that got us!
I sincerely wish you the best of luck in whatever you do.
:snoopy
PA's response to my BBB complaint
Here is my complaint to the Better Business Bureau. Please keep in mind that I filed online using a web form, so there isn’t as much detail as I have included in the complaint to the AG in MD.
Complaint
***********************
On September 2, 2002, I and my co-author, Brian Hill, signed a contract with PublishAmerica to publish our book, Overtime. We signed the contract based on the assurances of PublishAmerica that:
1. PublishAmerica is a traditional publishing company.
2. PublishAmerica is selective in the manuscripts that they accept, and provides editing for their titles.
3. PublishAmerica would provide marketing and publicity support for their books.
4. That PublishAmerica is not a Publish On Demand publisher.
5. That our book would be available and stocked in bookstores nationwide.
In the ensuing months we have found that PublishAmerica has misrepresented their services, and their business model. PublishAmerica is not a traditional publisher. PublishAmerica accepts nearly any manuscript sent to them. PublishAmerica provides only the editing services of a standard word processing software program.
PublishAmerica does not provide marketing and publicity support.
PublishAmerica uses the business model of a Publish On Demand publisher.
PublishAmerica does not attempt to stock their titles in bookstores. PublishAmerica book titles are rarely stocked by book chain stores unless placed there on consignment after being paid for by the author.
******************************************
Typos were in Janet's letter
Janet Morrissey's response
PublishAmerica
October 4, 2004
Dear Ms. Johns,
I am in receipt of your letter of September 29, regarding Dee Powers.
Contrary to what she states, at her request our contract with Ms. Powers is in process of being terminated amicably as of August 17 of this year, over one month before her complaint. Why she would make her complaint after this development, and not mention this to you is a mystery.
Ms. Powers=letter complaint of complaint contains several statements that she knows not to be true. The rest of her statements appear to be general observations that are also not true. Her claims are more in the bizarre category than anything worthy of refute. Refuting these claims is a very simple matter.
1. Actually our business model is traditional. We require nor accept any fees from our authors. Our business model is nearly identical to that of most major publishers. And, like most publishers, the vast majority of our sales are from a small percentage of our titles.
2. Yes, we are selective, and the fact that we have a team of 25 full time text editors working under our roof, at our office, easily refutes her claim.
3. Every publisher differs from book to book as far as the marketing and promotion that they will provide. Our marketing efforts are in line what is done by most major publishers.
4. We are not at all a “publish on demand” or POD publisher. We would have very little in common with any such publisher, vanity publisher, or subsidy publisher. You will find our marketing practices and business model to be closest to that of the largest major publishing houses.
5. Contrary to what she states, we never made any such claim, nor any claim even remotely resembling such a statement. She may be confused because she does not understand how bookstore stocking works in the publishing industry. Please allow us to clarify.
Less than one percent of all authors ever see their books actually stocked by bookstores. For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space every day. Therefore bookstore managers must be selective, so they decide based on what that they think will sell. If they do think it will sell, they will stock it, and vice versa. So, if your book is romance and the store’s shelves are overflowing with romance novels, the odds are they won’t stock it. And, if your book is a history of agriculture in Tupelo County, Mississippi, the bookstore manager in Seattle may feel the same way.
Again, the overall industry reality is that of all newly published titles in America (160,000 per year) less than 1 percent end up being stocked by bookstores, stocked as in sitting on shelves hoping to get sold.
But this year alone, we received and fulfilled bookstore orders for more than 3,700 of our titles, with Barnes and Noble being our number one retail customer. That roughly equals the total number of books that we have released in the past 365 days.
As always, I trust that I have answered your question in full. If you need any further information about any of the above, it will be my pleasure to be of your assistance,
Sincerely, Janet Morrissey
*****************************************
I am filing a rebuttal, but I thought the PA response might be of interest. On the matter of the "amicable" termination, there isn't any. PA hasn't responded to the revised agreement sent by our attorney September 22.
Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
Here is my complaint to the Better Business Bureau. Please keep in mind that I filed online using a web form, so there isn’t as much detail as I have included in the complaint to the AG in MD.
Complaint
***********************
On September 2, 2002, I and my co-author, Brian Hill, signed a contract with PublishAmerica to publish our book, Overtime. We signed the contract based on the assurances of PublishAmerica that:
1. PublishAmerica is a traditional publishing company.
2. PublishAmerica is selective in the manuscripts that they accept, and provides editing for their titles.
3. PublishAmerica would provide marketing and publicity support for their books.
4. That PublishAmerica is not a Publish On Demand publisher.
5. That our book would be available and stocked in bookstores nationwide.
In the ensuing months we have found that PublishAmerica has misrepresented their services, and their business model. PublishAmerica is not a traditional publisher. PublishAmerica accepts nearly any manuscript sent to them. PublishAmerica provides only the editing services of a standard word processing software program.
PublishAmerica does not provide marketing and publicity support.
PublishAmerica uses the business model of a Publish On Demand publisher.
PublishAmerica does not attempt to stock their titles in bookstores. PublishAmerica book titles are rarely stocked by book chain stores unless placed there on consignment after being paid for by the author.
******************************************
Typos were in Janet's letter
Janet Morrissey's response
PublishAmerica
October 4, 2004
Dear Ms. Johns,
I am in receipt of your letter of September 29, regarding Dee Powers.
Contrary to what she states, at her request our contract with Ms. Powers is in process of being terminated amicably as of August 17 of this year, over one month before her complaint. Why she would make her complaint after this development, and not mention this to you is a mystery.
Ms. Powers=letter complaint of complaint contains several statements that she knows not to be true. The rest of her statements appear to be general observations that are also not true. Her claims are more in the bizarre category than anything worthy of refute. Refuting these claims is a very simple matter.
1. Actually our business model is traditional. We require nor accept any fees from our authors. Our business model is nearly identical to that of most major publishers. And, like most publishers, the vast majority of our sales are from a small percentage of our titles.
2. Yes, we are selective, and the fact that we have a team of 25 full time text editors working under our roof, at our office, easily refutes her claim.
3. Every publisher differs from book to book as far as the marketing and promotion that they will provide. Our marketing efforts are in line what is done by most major publishers.
4. We are not at all a “publish on demand” or POD publisher. We would have very little in common with any such publisher, vanity publisher, or subsidy publisher. You will find our marketing practices and business model to be closest to that of the largest major publishing houses.
5. Contrary to what she states, we never made any such claim, nor any claim even remotely resembling such a statement. She may be confused because she does not understand how bookstore stocking works in the publishing industry. Please allow us to clarify.
Less than one percent of all authors ever see their books actually stocked by bookstores. For bookstores to stock all books published would mean adding 15 feet of new shelf space every day. Therefore bookstore managers must be selective, so they decide based on what that they think will sell. If they do think it will sell, they will stock it, and vice versa. So, if your book is romance and the store’s shelves are overflowing with romance novels, the odds are they won’t stock it. And, if your book is a history of agriculture in Tupelo County, Mississippi, the bookstore manager in Seattle may feel the same way.
Again, the overall industry reality is that of all newly published titles in America (160,000 per year) less than 1 percent end up being stocked by bookstores, stocked as in sitting on shelves hoping to get sold.
But this year alone, we received and fulfilled bookstore orders for more than 3,700 of our titles, with Barnes and Noble being our number one retail customer. That roughly equals the total number of books that we have released in the past 365 days.
As always, I trust that I have answered your question in full. If you need any further information about any of the above, it will be my pleasure to be of your assistance,
Sincerely, Janet Morrissey
*****************************************
I am filing a rebuttal, but I thought the PA response might be of interest. On the matter of the "amicable" termination, there isn't any. PA hasn't responded to the revised agreement sent by our attorney September 22.
Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
Here's my legal findings...
I'm sorry Dee. I have been down this road and it's hard. Just remember that once you are released, your claims will be null and void. You may want to continue your fight with PA and not get released. That's what ended my pursuit as well as many other authors. PA knows what they are doing.
:head
From what I have learned, PA's claim that they are "traditional" is valid. Unfortunately, only authors (not lawyers) understand what the difference is. Also unfortunately for PA there is a web site that regards this issue. www.sfwa.org/beware/printondemand.html Also PA has secured their own lies with the publication of their own web site that directs all new authors to their POD company. That site is www.authorsnet.com. They cannot have it both ways. The lawyers need to understand what it means to authors to be connected by misrepresentation to a POD company. Especially in light of recent Ingram developments that they will no longer stock such books.
If they have 25 full time text editors what does that mean. This is where PA gets lawyers to buy in to their claims. Text editing is NOT the same as promising to "line by line" edit their products. Only a real editor will know the difference. They do not edit spelling, syntax, structure, story content or copy. These are the services that a "traditional" publisher does provide. Therefore refuting both the claim that PA is a traditional publisher and that PA edits their books. The additionally saddened fact is that there are authors who can refute this by direct evidence that not one single item on their manuscript was edited at all whatsoever, text or not.
This sadly enough is a blatant lie. It pains me to hear that they sell this hogwash. They offer web site marketing, family & Friend contact and nothing more. Authors need only go to the aforementioned web site to fully comprehend the absurdity of this claim.
Again, you cannot have it both ways. You cannot advertise that Barnes and Noble consider your product a POD product as well as advertise you're a POD company under a different web site directing new authors and then claim to authorities that you are not.
I urge anyone who believes this to contact the Small Press Department of Barnes & Noble. (The nations leading bookseller) and ask them if they have ever corporately stocked a PA book. I know the answer, I've done it. That testimony refutes any claim that booksellers order books based on shelf placement. The way they get away with this is how they word what they say.
Received via online orders, and fulfilled orders through Barnes and Noble. Those orders are NOT in the bookstores. They did not lie with that statement, they just didn’t tell the truth either.
I'm sorry Dee. I have been down this road and it's hard. Just remember that once you are released, your claims will be null and void. You may want to continue your fight with PA and not get released. That's what ended my pursuit as well as many other authors. PA knows what they are doing.
:head
fanstory.com
There's a new press release on PA's homepage about a new "partnership" with fanstory.com, which appears to be a place like critters where you can get reviews of work in progress, etc.
I wonder if they know what they're getting themselves into. :lol
There's a new press release on PA's homepage about a new "partnership" with fanstory.com, which appears to be a place like critters where you can get reviews of work in progress, etc.
I wonder if they know what they're getting themselves into. :lol
- Status