A Moral Question

Jaycinth · Jan 11, 2007

Yes, a moral question, (I do have morals, I keep them in a box and trot them out from time to time for a bit of fresh air and exercise):

As part of the terms for divorce, I had to ‘buy’ my house from the WART. He got $50,000.00 in August 2006. He has some outstanding credit card debt, but he lives in his brother’s basement.

Problem: He has never contributed a cent to our son’s college expenses. I paid the first year out of my retirement savings. Grandma and Aunts helped with the next semester because I was (and have been since 2000) shouldering all of the family financial burden and paying a divorce lawyer.
My son is smart. He lives at home and I don’t charge him rent. (Yes, he helps around the house.) I'm tired of him having to work full time and be exhausted all the time just to pay for classes and books. I am tapped out…see sentence one…I have no more credit, and no longer have enough equity to tap.

Question: Should I send an open e-mail to his family asking them to pressure WART to help pay for his son’s education? (I mean since WART’s father paid for all of his kids to go to school at GW, and WART never had to worry that when he signed up for classes there may not be money to pay.)

MidnightMuse · Jan 11, 2007

I left my morals at home, under the bed (or maybe in the sock drawer, I forget) and I've never had a child, or a WART.

But I will offer this up: My mother took my father to court to pay for a small bit of my college education and that of one sister - the other sister made it through while they were still married, and he paid for her. Whenever he would slack off, she'd threaten the courts, but what carried the most weight was when she threatened to tell HIS parents. My grandmother was High Priestess of Guilt-Trips.

It only worked for a year's worth, and I had to do loans and government grants for the rest, but it did help. (now for the kicker - I got my loan because my new stepmother was president of the bank!) I guess their morals got lost in the mail.

alleycat · Jan 11, 2007

In my opinion, I would say . . . no.

But I would ask him in as reasonable a way as possible to contribute.

Pat~ · Jan 11, 2007

In other words, should you shame him into it?

Not sure it'd work, regardless of whether that's the best moral choice or not. (You've looked into scholarships?)

Soccer Mom · Jan 11, 2007

It would talk to WART first. If that doesn't work, if I had a good enough relationship with his family, I would talk to them about convincing him to be a man and help pay for his son's schooling and education.

Unfortunately, from what I remember of previous WART conversations, he may never step up to the plate. I'll add him into my current WIP and let a demon devour him.

Wish I had more to offer.

William Haskins · Jan 11, 2007

even if you were able to wring out a pressured and lukewarm commitment, you'd not be able to depend on it and you'd move forward with uncertainly.

by my count, your boy has roughly 2.5 or so years to go on an undergrad degree. it would be far cleaner (peace of mind-wise) to go the federal student loan route.

benbradley · Jan 11, 2007

Jaycinth said:
Question: Should I send an open e-mail to his family asking them to pressure WART to help pay for his son’s education? (I mean since WART’s father paid for all of his kids to go to school at GW, and WART never had to worry that when he signed up for classes there may not be money to pay.)

This doesn't look much like a moral question. You might come across looking like an arse if you send that email. You might mention this to WART's relatives individually when having a conversation about other matters, but this may still put you in a bad light.

The thing is, it's not like child support of someone under 18 (hmm, does this ever extend to like age 21 or something?), where he is required by law to support any children he's the biological (or even, I presume, the legally adoptive) father of.

My parents paid for my college education (in state, State school, it was much cheaper than my sister's out-of-state private college), and looking back I really wish I had had the gumption to work jobs and put myself through school. I'd have developed a much better work ethic, and the money I earned wouldn't have had strings attached.

Tell your son you're sorry that 1. he has a WART for a dad, and 2. you're all out of money to give him for college. But say how you're very proud of him for getting jobs and putting himself through school as best he can. It looks like he's going to turn out well in spite of everything. :Hug2:

alleycat · Jan 11, 2007

Is work-study an option? I had some friends who did that and they actually seemed to enjoy it.

MidnightMuse · Jan 11, 2007

alleycat said:
Is work-study an option? I had some friends who did that and they actually seemed to enjoy it.

This is what paid for my first full year - I loved it, actually.

tourdeforce · Jan 11, 2007

MidnightMuse said:
IMy mother took my father to court to pay for a small bit of my college education and that of one sister - the other sister made it through while they were still married, and he paid for her. Whenever he would slack off, she'd threaten the courts...

I find it surprising that a court could find that one adult should be foreced to pay for another adult's optional college education, whether it is their child or not.

Jaycinth · Jan 11, 2007

I've talked to WART. (Very bad stuff...very bad...very bad this man is certifiably crazy. Even his family believes that.)
He feels that since he paid for day care (uh, paid half)for all of those years that adds up to College.
He also says wants to save the money to pay for his daughter to go to college in 5 years. (He paid her daycare...well helped)
He has a lot of bad habits. I do not believe he will have any of this money in 2 years.
NDSLs are not an option because not only do I earn a tad too much..(and if the kid lives at home they count both parent's income even if the parents are divorced) but WART feels the government is 'after' him, and on the advice of his friend has not filed a tax return since 2002, so the NDSL forms come back with 'incomplete information, please provide a copy of the tax returns for WART Gluteus-face for2003, 2004, 2005....

Sorry folks. I am trying to get an opinion and I wind up whining at you. YUCK! Excuse me while I go slap myself.

jennifer75 · Jan 11, 2007

Jaycinth said:
Should I send an open e-mail to his family asking them to pressure WART to help pay for his son’s education? (I mean since WART’s father paid for all of his kids to go to school at GW, and WART never had to worry that when he signed up for classes there may not be money to pay.)[/FONT]

Screw the email, call them. You'll only question wether the email was received or not, when you don't get a response.

StoryG27 · Jan 11, 2007

Jaycinth said:
Excuse me while I go slap myself.

There's no need for that. I'll do it for you.

WART is a lost cause, and from what I understand, a pitiful excuse for a parent. I think it's ridiculous you had to pay him for the house. But I don't think anything will motivate him to pay for kiddo's college. What a pickle. Knowing you, you raised resourceful children and I hope (though it'll be harder for him than it should be) your son can figure out another way.

farfromfearless · Jan 11, 2007

By all means take the bastard to court, but beware that once you start getting others involved in the process - such as using family to pressure WART - you run the risk of adding additional stress and frustration into you life if they don't reciprocate the way you want them to.

Perhaps they will take his side, what happens then?

Will the the entreaty to the whole ex-extended family may backfire in your face?

I can't really offer anything decisive for you but I do recommend that you preserve your credibility, spare yourself undue aggravation and focus on WART himself.

There are laws that can be applied in this case to help with your dilemma, talk to a professional about what your options are before you take a course of action that may hurt your situation more than help.

Here's a posting I found relating to your case.

I hope everything works out for you.

Jaycinth · Jan 11, 2007

alleycat said:
Is work-study an option? I had some friends who did that and they actually seemed to enjoy it.

The work-study at the college does not pay as much as the job he has off campus.
Maybe this is me being mom, and wanting to protect my kid. I put myself through college, not qualifying to NDSL until year 3 and only getting partial scholarships. I remember it was hard, miserable...I was sick a lot, and I promised myself my kids wouldn't have to do this...then just to have a pustulent excuse for a public toilet in Thailand insist on having to have his buy out in cash NOW as opposed to when his daughter turned 18. The equity in our home was supposed to provide college money and not fuel for.......a wart's chosen lifestyle.

William.... technically this is true, but because of the sudden lack of funds, he dropped from full time (4 classes a semester) to part time 3, the 2 classes. He needs 22 more classes to graduate.

I know he can do it , alone if necessary. He's a good kid. But his father should have the *balls* to help. I didn't take those...even though I had the rusty razor...I didn't take them.

StoryG27 · Jan 11, 2007

Jaycinth said:
But his father should have the *balls* to help. I didn't take those...even though I had the rusty razor...I didn't take them.

Mm-hm. . .therein lies your mistake.

tourdeforce · Jan 11, 2007

farfromfearless said:
There are laws that can be applied in this case to help with your dilemma, talk to a professional about what your options are before you take a course of action that may hurt your situation more than help.

Here's a posting I found relating to your case.

The responsibility to contribute to higher education expenses may not end with the completion of a four-year college program. In Ross v. Ross, 167 N.J. Super. 441 (Ch. Div. 1979), the Court required the father to continue child support payments for his daughter until she completed law school.

Wow, that is insane!

farfromfearless · Jan 11, 2007

Read the clause about the death of a parent - that's far reaching LOL!

Kate Thornton · Jan 11, 2007

Soccer Mom said:
It would talk to WART first. If that doesn't work, if I had a good enough relationship with his family, I would talk to them about convincing him to be a man and help pay for his son's schooling and education.

Unfortunately, from what I remember of previous WART conversations, he may never step up to the plate. I'll add him into my current WIP and let a demon devour him. Wish I had more to offer.

I agree with William here. The WARTS I have known will never be responsible - forcing or cajoling only hurts *you* from a stress point of view.

You have a good boy, a smart boy - it may take him a little longer to finish college, but finish he will.

And please do not discount the value of federal student loans.

writerterri · Jan 11, 2007

If he hasn't offered this far leave him out of it. I would, however leave an open invitation to his family to help with expenses.

"Grandma, Grandpa, would you guys pay for my books this year? Mom is stapped."

tourdeforce · Jan 11, 2007

Have to ask- What is a WART?

jbal · Jan 11, 2007

What does he have in life insurance?

writerterri · Jan 11, 2007

jbal said:
What does he have in life insurance?

~giggle~

Maryn · Jan 11, 2007

Among options to look into further...

What happens to his ability to get a student loan if he moves out? Is there a friend or relative who would let him rent a room, cheap, with bathroom and kitchen access? Consider the empty nests some of his high school friends may have left at their parents' homes. A neighbor whose kids are grown and gone? An elderly acquaintance who's kept the house despite being alone now?

What happens if he takes core courses at the area's best community college, which is probaby substantially cheaper, then transfers back to where he's now enrolled for his senior year, thereby getting his degree from that college or university?

Has he visited the school's financial aid office? He's certainly not the first student to learn the hard way that his father is a loon eager to shed all responsibilities, especially if his actions really stick it to the ex.

I like Terri's idea about asking the grandparents on his father's side to help, in a genial way which casts no blame toward their son. You'd better believe the ex will hear from them how they spent $500 on his son's textbooks.

Maryn, scratching her head for more ideas and getting only some kind of crud under her nails

Jaycinth · Jan 11, 2007

tourdeforce said:
Have to ask- What is a WART?

Anal Wart. My friends (which include two of his sisters, his mother and a brother) called him A**h***. But I argued that an A****** is a legitimate part of a human body, while distasteful, is none the less required for a human body to function properly, whereas an anal wart is a protuberance that should be excised from a human with utmost speed.

jbal said:
What does he have in life insurance?

Nothing. He closed out and cashed in his life insurance policy 4 years ago because he thought...(yes, you may laugh)...he THOUGHT that the police were following him and planning to assassinate him because he's planning on running for Pres. of the USA in 2012.

His youngest sister is very close to my son...they are more like cousins than aunt and nephew. Maybe I'll talk to her and ask her to talk to the rest of the family.

Of course, now, at the moment I am so incensed that I'd rather feed him 5 lbs of powdered apple seeds. I think his entire 'Depeche Mode' collection might make me feel better. If not...I'm confiscating Zepplin, Bowie and Floyd, too.

Thanks folks. Hey..don't stop slapping me.....

i like it..tee hee...

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