Publisher says to remove trade and company names.

Tri - I think there's a gray line in this issue. Part of the reason they want names removed is because of possible libel suits and also the question of paying for permissions to use the names. I doubt either of these would be the case with the major networks (unless you're casting them in a bad light). My suggestion would be to ask the publisher for some clarification. I honestly can't see a writer changing the name of The New York Times - might as well change the name of Times Square too. It could get a bit ridiculous. Puma

I see writers all the time who use McDonald's, Car company names, and so on. Neil Gaiman lists every car's make, name, and year that Shadow drives throughout American Gods, and that's a fair number of cars.

on the other hand, I so oftne get away without naming anything. I just have them go to a restuarant and get a really terrible burger that they wouldn't evne consider putting in their mouth, except when they're hungry.

Writers constantly use real names. Classic Bond drives a Saab, scenes are set in chain stores, chick books are full of real clothing brand names, the outright negative 'Supersize Me' dosumentary wasn't about McFlarneys. I think fake brand names would be irritating and distracting to the reader. I have had one epublisher insist on such changes and for a short story I didn't fight it--but it's silly. As if my hero wearing a Digimon T-shirt will see them sued into bankruptcy.

veinglory said:

Writers constantly use real names. Classic Bond drives a Saab, scenes are set in chain stores, chick books are full of real clothing brand names, the outright negative 'Supersize Me' dosumentary wasn't about McFlarneys. I think fake brand names would be irritating and distracting to the reader. I have had one epublisher insist on such changes and for a short story I didn't fight it--but it's silly. As if my hero wearing a Digimon T-shirt will see them sued into bankruptcy.

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As long as you're using the name, not the image (that's why movies need to get permission) it's okay for writers to use the real brand names, except in those cases where you're casting the product or company in a bad light. If you use an actual car name and the brakes on your hero's car fail and kill his wife, it had better be because the villain messed with the brakes, not because the manufacturing was shoddy. If the employees at your restaurant are conspiring to put bits of roadkill in with the burgers, it had better not be an actual restaurant name.

If your publisher wants you to change every single brand name in the entire book, I think a talk to clarify things is in order.

I've used a few brand names but not many

I use car names all the time. For instance in my current book my hero is driving a 1986 Cherry Red Ford Mustang.

There are also certain names I use as I feel they are in "public domain": Bill Gates, Oprah, Steven Hawkins. Of course since I write pulp SF, I actually write about clones of these people.

For companies I always sci fi up the names. For example I have EnterCorp, HTech and ExShell. I also used Pineapple Computer once.

The only things my publisher (well their lawyers) have me avoid with a passion are song lyrics. That's okay because it's fun to make up my own lyrics to famous songs.

I'm surprised that your publisher would ask that. I don't know if I understand, unless you're defaming these companies... Writers use real names and trademarks all the time in fiction.

Based on the few examples you've given us--and your own admission-- you seem to be awash in brand names. Cutting down the sheer number even more than you already have might be advisable irrespective of any legal concern. The danger is that a reader starts to get impatient with all the mental cataloguing of details that may or may not turn out to be important.

If the brand name adds nothing, why bother with even a faux replacement? But if a particular brand name is essential to the piece, or adds something meaningful to character voice or sense of place, then fight for it.

As for the passage where you've changed all the charity names, I agree, it doesn't work. I think you can evoke the feeling you're after without the contrivance. Something like: "Then the charities descended upon him. Foundations. Trusts. Societies. Each with needs and stories more gut-wrenching than the next. And all with their hands out." Or something to that effect.

Hmmm... I agree. The following sentence does seem excessive, like a laundry list.

triceretops said:

over 250 trade, manufacturer, company and organiztion names.

For Instance:

Then the largest charities descended upon him: The National Hospital, American Respiratory Society, U.S. Cancer Research Association, National Diabetic Institute, Society For The Visually Impaired, Doctors With Wings, Children’s Rescue Organization, Grant A Dream Foundation and other notable organizations.

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FWIW, I get suspicious when I see real brand names in fiction, especially if there seems to be no good reason for having them. "Product placement" comes to mind, and no doubt a lot of people don't like paying to buy an advertisement, or something that looks too much like an advertisement.

Now that I think about it, I recall some news story where an author was actually soliciting brand names to be placed into a novel.

Yeah, but Reese's Pieces in ET probably was product placement. I bet they paid a significant percentage of their marketing budget for that.

Brand names stay until someone forces me to remove them. The company gets free advertizing, and world building becomes that much easier.

Product placement is a huge business in show biz. I know, a friend of mine is a sales manager of one of those firms. In fiction, however, you don't get paid a dime by these companies. A few real products or org names do help with the setting -- a Coke is usually better than just a "soda" or a fake brand -- but make sure you're not overusing them. My character would take a Guiness but the next time he's just drinking "another beer." There's no need to mention brands, etc. every chance you have.

Reese's Pieces were substituted in ET because the film maker couldn't get permission to use M&Ms. (What do you get when you put a monkey in a blender? Rhesus Pieces.)

Tri, what's the name of this publisher? What kind of advance are they paying? (I had a publisher once who wanted me to rename most of my main characters. They were paying a $20K advance. Dude, I like the new names better!)

Overuse of tradenames is an easy trap to fall into. You generally don't add a thing to your story by specifying that your character drank Minute Maid Orange Juice in place of orange juice. You can slow down your reader by saying "'76 Toyota Landcruiser" as he tries to remember what the frip one of those looks like, and wonders whether it'll be on the test at the end of the chapter.

In the example you give above, listing the names of the various networks (IMHO) adds nothing at all to the scene.

triceretops said:

For Instance:

Then the largest charities descended upon him: The National Hospital, American Respiratory Society, U.S. Cancer Research Association, National Diabetic Institute, Society For The Visually Impaired, Doctors With Wings, Children’s Rescue Organization, Grant A Dream Foundation and other notable organizations.

Tri

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Tri, that's way too many examples. I got bored. I liked the suggestion someone made to say things like foundations, etc. Or you could go with: Children's charities. Disease of the month charities.

That long list just made me skim ahead, skip right over it.

But I don't think Make-A-Wish would come after you if you used their name in a "good" way.

Too much of anything is a bad thing. A couple of real brands here and there can be okay. Too many isn't.

I did once go round with my editor over my Texan hero doing a "banter" with the heroine over his use of the word "coke." Yes, little c. You see, in Texas, all soda is coke. The waitress will ask you what kind of coke you want. ("You want a coke?" "Yes, please." "Okay, what kind do you want?") I thought it added authenticity to my character. I had to take it out. <G> He wasn't allowed to use coke to mean soda. (Or pop, depending on your regional preference. <G>) I suppose that would make Coke unhappy since it dilutes their brand. (Always use a CAPITAL letter to indicate a brand name. That's the rule.)

Susan G.

LOL, Susan. Reminded me of the one time I forgot to capitalize Coke, and my editor said to me, "Do you want some heroin with it, too?" LOL.

At one time Heroin was a trade name.

My urban fantasy, doesn't over-use brand names, I don't think. At one point the main character swaps her Range Rover for a new Hummer, she drinks Dos Equis (largely because it's set in southern Arizona where you can hardly take a step without tripping on a Dos Equis bottle and shops at Saks and Abercrobie and Fitch's (she's an archeologist and nees bush clothes). I also mention the Triple T Truck stop outside Tucson because it's a landmark.

I hope I don't get zapped for it. It adds local color--Oh Yeah! I name the towns Benson, Douglas, Bisbee and Tucson, I don't think those name are Propietary in that sense.

Regards,
Scott

James D. Macdonald said:

At one time Heroin was a trade name.

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Now there's one I didn't know. So what's the generic name for Heroin?

Aspirin used to be a trade name, too, right?

This is why trademark holders get antsy about folks misusing their trade names. <G>

Susan G.

Popeyesays said:

My urban fantasy, doesn't over-use brand names, I don't think. At one point the main character swaps her Range Rover for a new Hummer, she drinks Dos Equis (largely because it's set in southern Arizona where you can hardly take a step without tripping on a Dos Equis bottle and shops at Saks and Abercrobie and Fitch's (she's an archeologist and nees bush clothes). I also mention the Triple T Truck stop outside Tucson because it's a landmark.

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Heh. In mine, my character just drives a Pontiac, I don't even mention the model. They eat Hamburger Helper, in an effort to show that he's a rather overwhelmed single father. He uses Play-Doh, although I might change that to modeling clay. And I think when he orders a beer in a Mexican restaurant, he merely calls it a cerveza, but it might be Dos Equis too. And he eats at a local sub shop called Suburpia. I don't feel I overwhelm the reader with brandnames and only use them when it serves a purpose.

I tend not to use them, simply beacuse a lot of the time, it doesn't occur to me. It might not be a bad idea, I could fill in rural Minnesota with realistic markers and products as a counter-point to the oddity of the Centaur and other creatures who have surfaced. But then...no, I probably won't.

I'm still puzzled that your publisher wants to pull it all, Tri. That seems strange to me. Have they said why? Have you asked them?