PA Employees

recreated

I've watched these forums for a while now, and agree with practically everything everyone is saying. I only started a new thread because I couldn't find what I was looking for.

All I basically want to know is why everyone here bashes the employees of PA so much. I understand hating their policy and "business" practices, but hating every employee seems to be over the top. (Not that it has happened here, but I've seen webpages that offer money for any photograph of a PA employee.)

It's like hating the gas station attendant because the gas prices are so high.

Please consider the poor sods who work there because they need the money, or were suckered into working there fresh out of college, or didn't discover PA's practices until their resume was a little too tainted to work somewhere legit.
 

Ol' Fashioned Girl

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Well, first of all, Welcome to AW. Glad you found your way here.

But if you haven't seen it (the hating PA employees), you're kinda preachin' to the choir. We try to hate the policy and business practices, but to my knowledge no one here has offered money for photographs. We've bent over backwards, in fact, to put the blame where blame is due... right at the top.

My only comment on that last paragraph is this: if a resume is a little too tainted to work somewhere 'legit' in the short time it takes to smell what's rotten in Frederick, just how much more tainted is it going to be for staying once their tactics are discovered? I'd hate to have to answer the inevitable question in an interview, "So... you found out they were crooks... and you stayed. Why?" Is there an honest answer to that question that won't make you look worse in the long run?
 

Christine N.

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Because I need to feed myself and jobs are scarce.

That's a good reason, IMO. I mean, I understand they mostly take in just-out-of-college kids, almost all females. And if you have no resume, it's hard to get a job that doesn't involve a deep fryer or fetching coffee all day. Even harder to find a job that actually pays a living wage, even for a college grad.

You wanna hold onto that paycheck for as long as you can. I know that we've heard some of the poor PA slaves, er, I mean employees, really hate that they have to push and push so much.

It's a shame, really.
 

Ol' Fashioned Girl

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I guess that'd do it, Christine. ;) It'd be a toss up between that answer and hiding the fact I'd worked for them at all - just like I hide the fact I was ever printed by them to the outside world.
 

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Christine N. said:
I understand they mostly take in just-out-of-college kids, almost all females.

And that begs a new question: why do they hire mostly females? The college-age thing I get; I know how desperate I was in school to make some bucks without having to ask "you want fries with that?" But I think males, college age or not, would be more gullible to PA's slippery wiles (because I are one, and I know how stupid we can be), than more level-headed females. :D

Thoughts?
 

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Females, especially with liberal arts degrees, are very vulnerable. Jobs are scarce, and they aren't likely to complain. Hiring recent college grads means that they don't have the experience to take one look and say "Something is wrong here." Having a bunch of young women under their thumbs might also be a power trip for Willem, Larry, and Miranda.

I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the workplace at PA is abusive in all kinds of ways.
 

recreated

Thanks for the responses. I hadn't seen anywhere on here that there was outright hating of PA employees, but many posts and replies are very negative toward the poor saps (like me, I'll admit) who work there. It tends to anger me, because I can guarantee I hate PA more than any author who has graced the computer system there.

For a quick reply, I work there because I pretty much fit the descriptions above: a recently-graduated female with an English degree and no immediate prospects for the future. Oh, and a load of bills to pay. I'm hoping to get into a graduate program in the next semester or two, but after a day of work, I don't have much energy to do anything else. Abusive emails go from author to employee as well as the reverse.

(The mostly female thing can be partially explained thus: some of the employees are women with families, or recent mothers who are allowed to work from home. And many of the males working there are in positions where they don't have the massive customer interaction of support or text.)
 

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It's good of you to post, recreated.

You should be aware, though, that PA appears to monitor these boards, and I've heard reports of negative consequences for PA employees who read here, let alone post.

If you want to contact me privately, I can promise that anything you say in confidence will be held in confidence.

For my long-stated opinions, see here: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18215&page=2

*Note: Please pay particular attention to Hapisofi's comments in that thread.*
 
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spike

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Christine N. said:
Because I need to feed myself and jobs are scarce.

Or, I need to feed my child(ren) and jobs are scarce. Living paycheck to paycheck when you have a kid to take care of makes leaving impossible until you have another job lined up.

Been there, still there now.
 

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recreated said:
Thanks for the responses. I hadn't seen anywhere on here that there was outright hating of PA employees, but many posts and replies are very negative toward the poor saps (like me, I'll admit) who work there. It tends to anger me, because I can guarantee I hate PA more than any author who has graced the computer system there.

For a quick reply, I work there because I pretty much fit the descriptions above: a recently-graduated female with an English degree and no immediate prospects for the future. Oh, and a load of bills to pay. I'm hoping to get into a graduate program in the next semester or two, but after a day of work, I don't have much energy to do anything else. Abusive emails go from author to employee as well as the reverse.

(The mostly female thing can be partially explained thus: some of the employees are women with families, or recent mothers who are allowed to work from home. And many of the males working there are in positions where they don't have the massive customer interaction of support or text.)


Wow. It's good to meet you, Recreated. I hope you enjoy the forums.

I am glad to see an employee here, because this gives an aura of humanity to the people who work there. PA itself might be a bad apple in the barrel, but like so many have pointed out so far, PA's employees are still ordinary people who are just trying to make a living.

Welcome to the forums.

:hi:
 

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James D. Macdonald said:
It's good of you to post, recreated.

You should be aware, though, that PA appears to monitor these boards, and I've heard reports of negative consequences for PA employees who read here, let alone post.http://

Agreed, Unk. Still, it would be sweet if some PA employee would stick around there long enough to gather evidence. Not that I think that'll ever happen, of course.
 

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I don't think anyone really gives the employees a lot of blame. The executives on the other hand are responsible for the policies and actions of the company.

Regards,
Scott
 

recreated

Thank you, everyone, for the warnings that PA watches these boards. I suspected, but wasn't sure how many they monitor. I'll watch what I say on here from now on, especially in the PA threads, but I had to know why many reponses took the bent they did.

Thanks again.
 

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I wonder just how many of the people work who at PA and hate it, but have to stay on because of obligations like children and mortgages, try to help a little from the inside. There's little they can do without drawing attention to themselves but surely they would try to do something? Like warning off a few of the writers they came across, perhaps, or accepting books that they really shouldn't as they are potential libel cases, or plagiaristic, or similar?
 

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Popeyesays said:
I don't think anyone really gives the employees a lot of blame. The executives on the other hand are responsible for the policies and actions of the company.

Once you know you're part of a scam, continuing to work there taints you as much as it does the executives. JMHO.
 

James D. Macdonald

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But getting out can be tough, especially if you can't afford to jump to a job where a big part of your day is spent saying "You want fries with that?"

The unfortunate part: (I'm guessing here) is that most of 'em wanted to go into publishing, but (I know this for a fact) time at PA won't help their resumes. If they do go on to a real publisher they'll have to unlearn everything they picked up at PA. In the meantime, working on bad books and hopeless prose is soul-deadening. It can make you hate books, hate reading, and hate yourself.
 

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James D. Macdonald said:
But getting out can be tough, especially if you can't afford to jump to a job where a big part of your day is spent saying "You want fries with that?"

The unfortunate part: (I'm guessing here) is that most of 'em wanted to go into publishing, but (I know this for a fact) time at PA won't help their resumes. If they do go on to a real publisher they'll have to unlearn everything they picked up at PA. In the meantime, working on bad books and hopeless prose is soul-deadening. It can make you hate books, hate reading, and hate yourself.

That's collateral damage, of course -- the ripped-off/abused authors are the main casualties -- but sad, nonetheless.

No, I would never blame anyone for working at PA -- so long as that person doesn't actually ENJOY his/her work, and is trying to get out, as soon as he/she realizes it's a scam.

I am always polite to telemarketers, by the way, no matter what ...
 

Popeyesays

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Sassenach said:
Once you know you're part of a scam, continuing to work there taints you as much as it does the executives. JMHO.

This is probably the very b est reason for the high turn-over rate at PA. They leave because they are aware of the miasma, and cannot abide it.

Regards,
Scott
 

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recreated said:
Thank you, everyone, for the warnings that PA watches these boards. I suspected, but wasn't sure how many they monitor. I'll watch what I say on here from now on, especially in the PA threads, but I had to know why many reponses took the bent they did.

Thanks again.

Without going into specifics, how would you describe your co-workers' feelings about the way PA authors are treated, and the sheer volume of people whose dreams are pumped up and then shattered so the company can make a few bucks?
 

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Here I go with my Southern gentleman thinking again, but what about honor? Yes, it'd be tough to leave PA for a "burger and fries" job, but after an employee finally realized what hell they were perpetrating (and that simply could not take more than a day or two), at what point does the "but I vas chust following orders" defense come into play? Because, male or female, that face in the mirror each morning demands an answer.
 

Cathy C

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but after an employee finally realized what hell they were perpetrating (and that simply could not take more than a day or two),

I don't know that I agree it would only take a day or two. Remember that MANY of PA's authors are quite happy there. Those who don't expect the same treatment as a NY press, or don't know what small/large presses do in the first place to compare, believe they're being treated fairly.

Let's not forget there really isn't any Kool-aid. I know a number of PA authors who love everything about the PA experience. It does little good to "convince" someone to hate their editor, to hate their publisher, when nothing bad has been done to them.

PA provides a product. It's not a terrible product with the increasing quality of POD presses. And, with the right marketing, some of the authors do well on a local level. One PA author in my area regularly outsells the bestsellers--but then he's a church deacon and a former county commissioner. Hence, he knows EVERYONE, and they all buy his books. The chain bookstores happily order his books, because they sell nicely.

The employees there might not even know that what they're doing isn't comparable to the same job at a large publisher until they get out there and are not hired because they "lack experience." I've wondered about this quite a bit.

It's easy for those who have learned better to taunt, even if it's not intended to be malicious towards individuals. But we always need to remember that there are real people involved over there and be cautious not to sound too shrill in our criticism of the WHOLE of PA. Let's concentrate on those who really are doing the scamming.

I don't think it's the editors, or the people in payroll, or accounting, or even in order processing. Perhaps I'm wrong, but having been a lonely cog in a major corporation, I'm pretty confident that individual people in various departments have no CLUE what's going on at the top--or even how the company is viewed on boards like this. JMHO, of course.
 

Christine N.

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And sometimes, it really isn't about just you and burgers and fries. If it doesn't pay the bills, and you have children to care for, sometimes you have to stick with it until you find something that will pay the bills.

I know how it sounds, but I can understand why some stay. I don't know the state of job availability in the greater Frederick area, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
 

Alan Yee

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In connection to Cathy's explanation, I've actually read some first-hand accounts from former employees of scam operations that later got busted. I remember the ones who used to work for Edit Ink and the Deering Agency. Yes, they kept working there for a while. Yes, they knew about the fee-charging and the "edits." They didn't necessarily think that was how it usually worked, but they didn't think their employers were scammers.

That is, it worked until their employers got a little too greedy and careless, and only then did the employees started noticing some things and get the hell out of there. Some of those employees became major witnesses that later got their employers canned.

This doesn't necessarily relate to PA in any way, but I agree with Cathy. Sometimes the employees really don't know, due to lack of knowing better. Besides, they aren't really the ones doing the scamming. They're more like tools for the Stooges.
 

James D. Macdonald

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There was another PA editor who had a LJ, a long time ago, who talked about her life at PA. She vanished the morning after her LJ was mentioned here -- which is part of how I know that the bosses over there read here.

For the longest time she believed the story that she was Giving Authors The Chance They Deserve. Poor young lady didn't have anything to compare it to. Had never worked in a company before, had no connection with publishing. She really did think that this was the way it worked.
 
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