CINO: Christian in Name Only

It's an intriguing idea, but how would one locate this market?

I'd imagine that anyone seeking out & reading something xian would be a little more than 'nominally' xian.

Are there any particular books or magazines for this group?

I think there are 'we are the only true Christians' groups, and 'we are the only real atheists' groups.

I mean I am absolutely an atheist but my culture is partly Christian in a way that does not bother me. Many might consider my Xmas tree a Christian symbol, I own religious art and I have quite a collection of gospel music.

I think the majority of people fall into the 'don't really care' group, or, more sympathetically, the 'live and let live, pass the eggnog' group--they are focussed on their day to day stuff rather than trying to perfect their own spiritual position or express, spread or impose it on their world.

veinglory said:

the 'live and let live, pass the eggnog' group

Click to expand...

I like this group! Especially if the 'nog is spiked.

I'm thinking CINOs might be akin to people who are political moderates: there are pubs for liberals, pubs for conservatives, but I don't think there are too many (or any?) for middle-ground types.

I agree with veinglory--If a person doesn't strongly identify with one side or the other, I don't think they'd care enough about the issue to read about it in their spare time. (I could be wrong, of course, but this just seems logical to me.)

I think a lot of people believe in the inherent goodness of humans and rely on that faith in humanity regardless of the "tag" it's given. Therefore, it doesn't bother me at all to throw myself into the Christmas season. One of the best things with being agnostic is the fundamental skepticism that EVERYBODY is wrong about religion and that the real truth is somewhere in the middle. I put up lights and a tree, and some years you might find a Mennorah at our house. I enjoy giving at this time of year. I do "angel" gifts for Salvation Army and our local shelter, I pass money out to homeless folks to go get a good meal (not just change, but tens and twenties!) and leave anonymous gifts at women's shelters and food banks.

If people wish to believe that I'm all filled up with "Christian charity," that's up to them. I'd do the good stuff regardless of what label you give it. I'm probably one of those CINOs, since I was confirmed into the Lutheran church in my teens. But I don't follow that religion anymore. I've read too many things to believe that just one book holds all the answers.

In my experience the more obvious sort of big Christian (and I mean big in-your-face in expression of faith, not experience of faith) will not spot a CINO or even an atheist. I have indeed had a ladies bemoaning atheism to me as a fellow 'good Christian woman'. I really dare not tell her the whole horrible truth LOL. What confuses me that I think my appearance (unkempt, vaguely gothic) would in fact avoid this kind of casual misidentification.

Of course the obvious sort of Big Christian is like the obvious sort of American tourist, not necessarily representative. And I have, on occassion (sometimes embarrassingly) assumed acquaitances of mine were atheist when they were not. I think we are a little inclined to take 'they must be like me' as a default position.

I have een thinking about this and it seems to me that most markets in the newsagents (outside of the porn and gay magazines) are already small 'c' Christian. That is, what I think of a 'culturally Christian'. Nothing tends to absolutely specific it but there are a lot of implicit cues and respect for the Christian mainstream. I mean, heck, I couldn't even make myself spell Christian with that small 'c'.

I believe religion has historically been a way of sharing values within a culture. A way of defining right and wrong, to put it simply.

Now, right and wrong is learned through other means - school, television, magazines, books, internet, etc - means that have only been available to all for a relatively short period of time. With greater exposure to other cultures, beliefs and religions, our ideas about what is and is not acceptable have changed and diversified significantly from those taught through some traditional belief systems.

I think there's a real clash between what's accepted by the church and what's accepted by the wider community - hence, perhaps, the emergence of these CINO's.

It's something I find fascinating - I'm an athiest, but I often write about exactly this kind of conflict with religious belief.

I like the idea of christian with a small "c". Might borrow that one, if you don't mind Veinglory.

If you ask me many "christians" are CINOs. Especially those in younger age groups. Example: I recently had a temp job, and the girl in the cubicle next to me overheard a conversation between me and another worker where we were discussing Tarot card readings. She told me that we should stop discussing this within earshot of her b/c it offended her christian beliefs. The next day, however, I overheard a conversation between this girl and someone where they were gleefully discussing the show Sex & The City. I mean, they weren't condemning it as fornication, rather they were talking about how much they liked the show. I think CINOs are probably pretty easy to market to as long as you don't mention anything "Pagan" or blatantly anti-Christian.

Sokal said:

As in Nominal Christians or unchristian christians or small rather than BIG christians.

In one post over in the BIG christian area we hear:

"...one of the Holy Spirit's jobs is to prick our consciences and direct us. And He never condones anything contrary to the Word. Any "Christian" who could engage in promiscuity without regret I'd say is a CINO. And God knows we have a slew of those around these days."

Evidently a HUGE potential market: promiscous CINOs. Probably larger than all religious "markets" combined.

Click to expand...

veinglory said:

I have indeed had a ladies bemoaning atheism to me as a fellow 'good Christian woman'. I really dare not tell her the whole horrible truth LOL.

What confuses me that I think my appearance (unkempt, vaguely gothic) would in fact avoid this kind of casual misidentification.

Click to expand...

I would think you might give those people credit ...

But you seem to be expecting them to judge you (the inside content of your soul) by your mere outward appearance.

I think that's sort of ... noble of them, what?

Like a friend ustah say ... "Jesus is coming back. And He is pierced."

***************************************************************

As for the spelling "christian" and "god" with the small "c" and "g" ... I understand the thread/forum I'm in, okay? I get you're talking writing markets. I get that I'd be out-of-place bringing up personal beliefs here ...

I'll state the obvious, though: when a Christian caps those letters, they're not coming after anyone else's beliefs, or picking a fight, and they're spelling the words (when they mean Christ and God) the way they're generally spelled in the language.

Somebody spells them lower case ... and then wonders "why am I getting friction over that?"
They need to understand who's violating the cultural neutrality there, who's making it an issue.

I got jumped on for wishing someone a "Merry Christmas" innocently ... and that was them picking a fight, really. Because y'know ... all that means is I was putting out a friendly vibe, and they were living in a live-and-let-live culture where they weren't branded with a hot iron to let me know "don't wish me a Merry Christmas"

CINO that's a good one, though, I like that.

heehee

veinglory said:

In my experience the more obvious sort of big Christian (and I mean big in-your-face in expression of faith, not experience of faith) will not spot a CINO or even an atheist. I have indeed had a ladies bemoaning atheism to me as a fellow 'good Christian woman'. I really dare not tell her the whole horrible truth LOL. What confuses me that I think my appearance (unkempt, vaguely gothic) would in fact avoid this kind of casual misidentification.

Click to expand...

Maybe this happens to you because of your general behaviour. Acting in a so called christian way can lead others to believe that you are a Christian.

I find that it seems completely incomprehensible to some Christians that atheists actually do possess qualities like good moral, compassion, empathy, generosity etc. (And to all you Christians browsing here, I ask you not to take this as an insult. It just happens to be something I have noticed in my own life throughout the years.)

Melisande said:

Maybe this happens to you because of your general behaviour. Acting in a so called christian way can lead others to believe that you are a Christian.

I find that it seems completely incomprehensible to some Christians that atheists actually do possess qualities like good moral, compassion, empathy, generosity etc. (And to all you Christians browsing here, I ask you not to take this as an insult. It just happens to be something I have noticed in my own life throughout the years.)

Click to expand...

I admit, I used to be that way myself. But part of the reason for this was that I had never really had any experience with atheists ... aside from debating them about the existence of G-d, Noah's Ark, the Parting of the Red Sea, etc.

On the same token, I used to think all people who were kind and generous had to be Christians. I've since come to the understanding that however the person is inside, regardless of religion (or lack thereof) is going to have a more direct impact on how they act toward others.

As for CINO, I would say I used to be what Sokal calls in this thread a 'Big Christian' and then I converted to a religion having little to do with Christianity. When I wrote as a Big Christian, I wrote for the secular market (never actually published though, at least not through a legit house). From what I have seen, I find the market for a CINO would probably be found in the vast secular markets. Instead of trying to find them in religious markets, which tend to be focused on Big Religion, if I may use that term, perhaps looking for the market for CINOs would have more effect if sought in the secular world.

Melisande said:

I find that it seems completely incomprehensible to some Christians that atheists actually do possess qualities like good moral, compassion, empathy, generosity etc.

Click to expand...

This is why I opt to be an "out" atheist even though there are sometimes consequences for that. When we allow people to make a knee-jerk assumption that our decency means we're Christian, the bad assumptions about atheists continue unabated.

Giving god a small g is as much of an issue as the readship choose to make it. Anyone who really gets incensed is the one with the problem IMHO. I am sure any diety that may exist isn't judging us primarily on our grammar.

veinglory said:

Giving god a small g is as much of an issue as the readship choose to make it. Anyone who really gets incensed is the one with the problem IMHO. I am sure any diety that may exists isn't fjudging us primarily on our grammar.

Click to expand...

Heh. It's a tiny, impotent god who's threatened by a lower case letter.

Devil Ledbetter said:

Heh. It's a tiny, impotent god who's threatened by a lower case letter.

Click to expand...

Or more likely, one of the said god's followers.

I would tend to agree that using a lower-case 'g' in the word 'god' is nothing. If the deity in question really is omnipotent, then it most certainly will be thinking about much more important things than the case of a letter.

Things like controlling the Universe and watching the world of Humanity try desperately to figure it out, (I say 'it' because I know some gods are female, and I wish to be inclusive of all deities in this statement) would be more worrisome to any god than spelliing a word with a lower-case 'g'.

I mean, if a god really is the master of all things, it could very easily correct the mistake in someone's life without its followers becoming angry about it.


I'm amazed. This attitude has been around throughout much of human history, and many of us (I admit I've been guilty of this myself) still don't get it.

Okay, before anyone (and reading it carefully, you understand that includes me) spins this into a major issue:

By "cultural neutrality" (and don't it just flow off the tongue like honey?) all I meant was: a situation where no one is trying to cross the line or infringe on anyone else's beliefs or practices.

I'd offer standard grammar or spelling as the example here (since my comment was about when to use lower case or capitalize): using the standard grammar of a language needs to say nothing about your race, your faith, your politics ... unless someone is using it to grind an axe (yeah, I get it: grind an axe/small axe )

We're WRITERS here, yes? So all I meant to do was to appeal to our knowledge of standard American use: "God" versus "god"

I'll leave it at that.

People bothered to "correct" my spelling of the word "Atheist" (that it doesn't get the big A)

People usually get around to complaining about how I enjoy emphasis of words (well, some words if not all)

So yeah, that was something I said: people who insist on using "christian" or "god" where the standard American english would suggest "Christian" and "God" are politicizing their spelling where the Christians capping things are just ... being standard.

If I'm mistaken in my interpretation of how Christian is spelled, correct me.

Seriously, I'm asking a question as a writer here too. "God" refers to a specific being (whether you believe or not, just as when I write Zeus I'm not worshipping Zeus, I'm just capping a name) that "god" doesn't.

If my atheist girl (in another thread, we need not point to it) were arguing against the existence of God, I'd still be spelling it God, so we know she means God and not one of many false gods.*

Any takers?

Somebody here spells "God" as G-d ... in the interest of sisterhood I'd point out that atheists can write it "G-d" and no one will really think twice (because G-d can either be you not speaking God's name due to either RESPECT or DISDAIN. If it bothers you to let people think either ... maybe that proves my point about crossing the neutrality)

But again: I was only saying I think discussing the Christian God and spelling the proper name "god" is ... just poor use of lower case, as a point of writing.

If a school teacher ever told you that "god" gets capitalized according to use, I don't think you were being religiously oppressed.

I think she was remaining culturally neutral.

No need to take sides (or be assigned sides) in an unnecessary war. Neutral.

* It's an interesting dilemma for me, what the phrase "false Gods" might mean. If I read that by itself ... without context ... I'd wonder what the writer means.

Or more likely, one of the said god's followers.

Click to expand...

I'd use that as an example of the vagueness I'm talking about, caused by the failure to cap.

"One of God's followers" isn't the same message as "one of god's followers"

Even adding "the" or "the said god" makes the reader have to refer to other places to pin down the meaning. I understand it's a comment in context with other comments ... but "God" is a specific god, where "god" isn't.

Boy, you got yer god followers who are taught to turn the other cheek, and you got the god followers who are taught to cut out the tongue of the blasphemer and feed the blood to the idol of the sun.

Who wants to get confused and insult the wrong crowd of god followers?!

If I am referring to a specific god I tend to capitalize out of respect, not for the god, but for the followers of that faith. If I write in general terms about a god, I do not, because it can mean any god.

Same with followers of a faith. I would capitalize and write f.i. Muslim, or Christian, but would prefer not to capitalize using the word as a verb, i.e. like "...in the muslim or christian way...".

On the same token I would use this way of capitalizing almost any kind of labelling; Liberal / liberal way etc.

To me the capital letter simply represents a way for me to show that I respect people.

Melisande said:

If I am referring to a specific god I tend to capitalize out of respect, not for the god, but for the followers of that faith. If I write in general terms about a god, I do not, because it can mean any god.

Same with followers of a faith. I would capitalize and write f.i. Muslim, or Christian, but would prefer not to capitalize using the word as a verb, i.e. like "...in the muslim or christian way...".

On the same token I would use this way of capitalizing almost any kind of labelling; Liberal / liberal way etc.

To me the capital letter simply represents a way for me to show that I respect people.

Click to expand...

That makes some good sense. I never really stopped to think words like 'Christian' and 'Liberal' could be written out without caps. But putting it the way you do, I can see now that they can be and possibly should be if only for the sake of grammar.

I have some serious thinking to do about how I capitalize my words. I hope you have a good evening.