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Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 05:56 PM
I was happy to see the Dixie Chicks may be in line for the prestigious honor, Album of the Year. I am passionate about preserving the Chick's freedom, as well as seeing them move on to bigger and better.
I am still furious that my local radio stations still continue to band them, But you can't keep me from buying their CD's...I just unplugged your stations and slapped in my CD...I banned you!
I think Natalie said it best when she came to my town...walked on stage to a sell out crowd...quiet in the house as her big eyes grew wide...she was really nervous...It was tense...She looked around and simply said..."...and they said you wouldn't come..."
Like Clear Channel could keep that from happening! You took the long way Chicks...Glad you're home!

MattW
12-16-2006, 06:04 PM
I think Natalie said it best when she came to my town...She's the chubby one, right?

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 06:31 PM
She's the chubby one, right?

Sorry, but I've never been able to identify people by their weight or size...Natalie is the lead singer...sassy mouth one!

robeiae
12-16-2006, 06:57 PM
My motto: shut up and sing. Laura Ingraham stole it from me.

The witch.

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 06:59 PM
My motto: shut up and sing. Laura Ingraham stole it from me.

The witch.

Kinda like "shut up and write?" uh...nope

robeiae
12-16-2006, 07:01 PM
Kinda like "shut up and write?"I'm good with that, too. Why do you think I wouldn't be?

aliajohnson
12-16-2006, 07:12 PM
Mornin' Kimmi!


I heard a great interview with the group on NPR's Fresh Air. I'll try finding it for you in their archives. Sassy mouth is right. I loved it, and I'm not a huge fan of the group. I don't think I even own one of their CDs--though I did support them by buying one for my sister-in-law. That must count for something.

Good for your town.

tourdeforce
12-16-2006, 07:13 PM
With the recent turn back towards sanity that the country is undergoing, I wonder if the anti-Chicks crowd are feeling really stupid now.

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 07:16 PM
I'm good with that, too. Why do you think I wouldn't be?

oh Rob, I don't know, I guess I'm not fond of anyone telling someone to shut up and do anything...


morn Alia, thanks kiddo

Wow did I just write that sentence, I need some more caffeine...ummm or maybe a li'' less

robeiae
12-16-2006, 07:32 PM
oh Rob, I don't know, I guess I'm not fond of anyone telling someone to shut up and do anything...Well, I meant it in the nicest way...

I'm not fond of people who love cheap shots. Dissent is fine. But bring something to the table.

But I think the banning stuff is just as dumb. Actually, worse than dumb. So I'm cool if they win. Until Maines accepts the award, I bet...

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 07:35 PM
Well, I meant it in the nicest way...

I'm not fond of people who love cheap shots. Dissent is fine. But bring something to the table.

But I think the banning stuff is just as dumb. Actually, worse than dumb. So I'm cool if they win. Until Maines accepts the award, I bet...

Er, Rob, kinda like the ol' grade school thingy when the other kid stands up and says, "just kidding?" for defense.

robeiae
12-16-2006, 07:42 PM
Er, Rob, kinda like the ol' grade school thingy when the other kid stands up and says, "just kidding?" for defense.No, I wasn't kidding. I'd rather people stick to what they know. But it's my choice to feel that way. And it's someone else's choice to play the fool.

I get that you're a fan. I'm a fan of Barbara Streisand. Really. But I think she's an @ss.

On the flip side, there's Bono. I don't always agree with him. But he knows what he's talking about...

"Music can change the world because it can change people."

Shut-up and sing.

tourdeforce
12-16-2006, 07:45 PM
If everyone is shutting up, then who gets to speak on any topic?

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 07:52 PM
No, I wasn't kidding. I'd rather people stick to what they know. But it's my choice to feel that way. And it's someone else's choice to play the fool.

I get that you're a fan. I'm a fan of Barbara Streisand. Really. But I think she's an @ss.

On the flip side, there's Bono. I don't always agree with him. But he knows what he's talking about...

"Music can change the world because it can change people."

Shut-up and sing.
Thank you for sharing your feelings Rob. You certainly are entiltled. As were the Chicks.
Yes a fan and a champion of these girls. It's been a long time coming...so now its, Praise The Lord and Pass the Ammunition...
They did their time out, made their babies, and grew in the process. Just made them stronger.

Barbara?
Bono..dunno... but my teens a fan!

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 07:54 PM
If everyone is shutting up, then who gets to speak on any topic?
Exactly Tour!;)

Jean Marie
12-16-2006, 07:57 PM
There's flapping your gums just for the hell of it. Actually, because you've got the stage, per se. And then there's taking a stand and following it through with an action. If I were to draw a direct comparison between the Chicks and Bono, the Chicks do the former and Bono does the latter.

I have tremendous respect for Bono; he's a true ambassador and utilizes his celebrity with class and dignity.

tourdeforce
12-16-2006, 08:04 PM
There's flapping your gums just for the hell of it. Actually, because you've got the stage, per se. And then there's taking a stand and following it through with an action. If I were to draw a direct comparison between the Chicks and Bono, the Chicks do the former and Bono does the latter.

I have tremendous respect for Bono; he's a true ambassador and utilizes his celebrity with class and dignity.


I wonder if you would have the same position if Maines had said "We are so proud that Bush is from Texas".

William Haskins
12-16-2006, 08:05 PM
natalie maines makes gandhi, MLK and jesus christ look like the three stooges.

she should have a national holiday named after her and anyone speaking out against her should be flogged.

tourdeforce
12-16-2006, 08:07 PM
Did we clarify if she's the chubby one yet?

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 08:11 PM
There's flapping your gums just for the hell of it. Actually, because you've got the stage, per se. And then there's taking a stand and following it through with an action. If I were to draw a direct comparison between the Chicks and Bono, the Chicks do the former and Bono does the latter.

I have tremendous respect for Bono; he's a true ambassador and utilizes his celebrity with class and dignity.
thank you Jean-Marie, hope all is well with you.

I feel a big difference was due to lack of maturity, or naive on Natalies part...I truely believed she just said what many others felt. I admire her spirit...

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 08:16 PM
natalie maines makes gandhi, MLK and jesus christ look like the three stooges.

she should have a national holiday named after her and anyone speaking out against her should be flogged.

Yep, in agreement Haskins, but not about Jesus, and as I warned earlier, Im quite passionate about the treatment of these Chicks.
Still mad as **ll.

robeiae
12-16-2006, 08:21 PM
There's flapping your gums just for the hell of it. Actually, because you've got the stage, per se. And then there's taking a stand and following it through with an action. If I were to draw a direct comparison between the Chicks and Bono, the Chicks do the former and Bono does the latter.

I have tremendous respect for Bono; he's a true ambassador and utilizes his celebrity with class and dignity.Yes.

William Haskins
12-16-2006, 08:22 PM
Yep, in agreement Haskins, but not about Jesus, and as I warned earlier, Im quite passionate about the treatment of these Chicks.
Still mad as **ll.

yes, they're so persecuted.

robeiae
12-16-2006, 08:27 PM
If everyone is shutting up, then who gets to speak on any topic?

I'm not fond of people who love cheap shots. Dissent is fine. But bring something to the table.
:rolleyes:

'Course, I don't think feelings trump all else. And I'm an e-litist snob.

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 08:34 PM
I think if they eliminated "Dixie" from their name, they'd enjoy unprecedented national exaltation and all the fawning they could endure without becoming dripping wet in spit.

Thats it? ....well, slap my knee and smack my Grandpa....so simple, wonder why they didn't figure that one out?

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 08:39 PM
:roll:
Don't smack your Grandpa. I'm sensitive to violence.

Yes, sometimes, a solution is staring us in right in our chubby cheeked faces.

William Haskins
12-16-2006, 08:44 PM
perhaps if the rumors are true that they're going to break up after the grammys because the other two are sick of natalie's political grandstanding, kimmi will come back and share her feelings on this.

eldragon
12-16-2006, 08:51 PM
I'm not into The Dixie Chicks, what are they? Country?

But Barbra, now she can sing.

Jean Marie
12-16-2006, 08:51 PM
I wonder if you would have the same position if Maines had said "We are so proud that Bush is from Texas".
It has nothing to with whom they were speaking out against. What is so tiresome is that some celebs believe that political theory is packaged with their stardom. If they were required to read the enclosed directions, they would realize, it's their overblown egos. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Take a stance, fine, but offer something in its place. Why do you think various leaders listen to Bono's ideas? Because he has solid plans. Anyone can spew vitriol, given a soapbox.

Thanks, Kimmi, not so well. Mom's got bone cancer w/ a spot on her liver. Just got the diagnosis the other day. It's in her pelvis and lower spine. She says given the choices of mestastasis, it beats the brain or lungs.

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 08:51 PM
[quote=William Haskins]perhaps if the rumors are true that they're going to break up after the grammys because the other two are sick of natalie's political grandstanding, kimmi will come back and share her feelings on this.[/quote

I feel this would be sad,...and rumors, just that. They do seem supportive of one and other...they could of just walked away. I felt for the two sisters on stage that eve, when I attended their concert...they were nervous and scared.
Still they didn't back down, they had to stand along side Natalie, exposing themselves to any crazed kooks out there...my heart went out to them.

tourdeforce
12-16-2006, 08:52 PM
The real scandal here is that they won a Best New Artist Grammy after being around for ten plus years and putting out numerous albums in the interim.

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 08:55 PM
So very sorry Jean-Marie, my thoughts and prayers continue...:Hug2:

Jean, I think again, Natalie didn't think...she had no idea what the repercussions would be...others have done much worse...just a kid.

Jean Marie
12-16-2006, 09:04 PM
So very sorry Jean-Marie, my thoughts and prayers continue...:Hug2:

Jean, I think again, Natalie didn't think...she had no idea what the repercussions would be...others have done much worse...just a kid.
That's exactly why I said celebs, in general. Because I agree that others have equaled her statement or exceeded it. Names such as Alec Baldwin come to mind. We're the ones who establish them as stars, not as politicians, though. I don't care for the insults, to the country on the whole.

Streissand blamed Reagan for her son's death. Uh, no, that would have to do with not having practiced safe sex. How that becomes the President's fault...well, you see where that one's going, right?

tourdeforce
12-16-2006, 09:05 PM
What is so tiresome is that some celebs believe that political theory is packaged with their stardom.


Perhaps they have internet messageboard accounts. I believe that qualifies one in political theory and more.

Jean Marie
12-16-2006, 09:13 PM
Perhaps they have internet messageboard accounts. I believe that qualifies one in political theory and more.
Not necessarily. At least we here in AW land offer alternative arguments. We don't make unsubstantiated statements, either. We back up them up with proven articles as opposed to pulling them from the ether or the depths of our fermented gray matter.

We engage in debates, not in one-sided, lop-sided discussions as do many celebs/know-it-alls. Therein lies a tremendous difference between blowing it out your barracks bag and sharing knowledge with your peers.

Little Red Barn
12-16-2006, 10:11 PM
Jaen-Marie, I'll never forget this incident and especially the nite of the concert. Long before the backlash I had secured 4 tix for 4 teens,... a reward for their studies...Then came Natalies statement...

It was an automactic, no! drop to your knees...we knew what would happen next. I BELIEVE Lipton than backed out as their sponsor.

As the concert got close, debates became fueled, heated and refueled..then the Death threats...to which I believe was induced by Clear Channel.

I coudn't back down. the girls insisted. The concert was heavily policed...and I worried about the safety of the teens. Hubby, as you know (police) insisted on going at the last moment.

I still felt uneasy sitting beside hubby with his 40 cal glock. Only one person out of thousands had a sign against Natalie in the audience..She quickly addressed him respectfully and said, "now down to business"...

I think the girls learned something that nite...this ol' mamma did too;)

tourdeforce
12-16-2006, 10:27 PM
Streissand blamed Reagan for her son's death. Uh, no, that would have to do with not having practiced safe sex. How that becomes the President's fault...well, you see where that one's going, right?


When did Streisand's son die?

William Haskins
12-16-2006, 10:33 PM
her only son was with elliot gould, yes? he's still alive as far as i know.

Celia Cyanide
12-16-2006, 10:37 PM
Perhaps they have internet messageboard accounts. I believe that qualifies one in political theory and more.

Perhaps someone should cut and paste pieces of our messages and publicize them around the world. I wonder how we would look?

I know very little about the Dixie Chicks music. However, I loved Goodbye Earl. I thought it was quite clever. I used it to explain to my Dad about Eminem. "See? They both talk about killing people, but they're not really serious about it."

robeiae
12-16-2006, 10:39 PM
her only son was with elliot gould, yes? he's still alive as far as i know.We had lunch on Tuesday, so yes.

William Haskins
12-16-2006, 10:40 PM
Perhaps someone should cut and paste pieces of our messages and publicize them around the world. I wonder how we would look?

short and stumpy and desperate for crossover appeal?

robeiae
12-16-2006, 10:40 PM
Don't forget the nose hairs...

Tiger
12-16-2006, 10:43 PM
so now its, Praise The Lord and Pass the Ammunition...!

Aren't they anti-gun too?

Jean Marie
12-16-2006, 10:55 PM
Don't forget the nose hairs...
I imagine you're a metrosexual, therefore the hairs would be neatly trimmed. And, I'd bet they'd be equal in length.

ETA: Streissand's son died during Reagan's administration, I believe. Sorry, tourdefource, I don't know the exact year. Her hatred for him had a lot to do with the somewhat slanted movie she and hubby (James Brolin) made about Ron and Nancy.

William Haskins
12-16-2006, 11:33 PM
you have a reference for that? i don't know that she had a child who died.

tourdeforce
12-16-2006, 11:50 PM
ETA: Streissand's son died during Reagan's administration, I believe. Sorry, tourdefource, I don't know the exact year. Her hatred for him had a lot to do with the somewhat slanted movie she and hubby (James Brolin) made about Ron and Nancy.


Any record at all of the phantom dead son would be appreciated.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 12:15 AM
Did we clarify if she's the chubby one yet?

Tour, Matt, Another insensitive reference like this and I am going to blast you, and I'll accept my punishment from Mac w/ grace. I'd delete your tasteless comments if I could. It's a slap to all.

tourdeforce
12-17-2006, 01:09 AM
No need to take an obvious joke so seriously.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 01:14 AM
No need to take an obvious joke so seriously.

Not a joke when it's at someone elses expense...it becomes offensive, and I have had to wince at it twice. I find it hurtful. I'm rail thin, but I detest people who reference people this way. It defiled this conversation.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 01:17 AM
No need to take an obvious joke so seriously.

Obviously mean and those take the least amount of time, effort and creativity. Surely you can do better? :)

Kimmi--here's the info from NPR I promised you. Apparently you can't listen to an audio version because of some rights issue.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5743522

tourdeforce
12-17-2006, 01:21 AM
Defiled?

I think you are over-reacting here.

Is it the word chubby that you object to? Would it have been better with a different word?

Or was it bad to describe anyone in reference to their physical appearance?

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 01:26 AM
Defiled?
Or was it bad to describe anyone in reference to their physical appearance?

Depends on the description and the intent. Plus, it had no relevance to the conversation at hand.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 01:26 AM
Defiled?

I think you are over-reacting here.

Is it the word chubby that you object to? Would it have been better with a different word?

Or was it bad to describe anyone in reference to their physical appearance?

Defiled; I believe to taint or pollute.
Yes a better word, Green eyes, brown hair ...
As I said it's offensive to all when you speak this way, and I can feel other wince as well.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 01:28 AM
It has nothing to with whom they were speaking out against. What is so tiresome is that some celebs believe that political theory is packaged with their stardom. If they were required to read the enclosed directions, they would realize, it's their overblown egos. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Wow, that's good. Entertainers' careers are made or broken on whether or not people like them. Period. The First Amendment is not proof against unpopularity.

tourdeforce
12-17-2006, 01:29 AM
Depends on the description and the intent. Plus, it had no relevance to the conversation at hand.


It was funny.

And somewhat mean. But then again, couldn't Maines comment about Bush which started this whole be considered 'mean' (regardless of whether or not it is true).

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 01:35 AM
It was funny.

And somewhat mean. But then again, couldn't Maines comment about Bush which started this whole be considered 'mean' (regardless of whether or not it is true).

It was funny to you, and probably to a few others. But it was a cheap laugh made at someone else's expense. Again, the easiest to come by.

Maines comment was made in response to the behaviour of a public official. Completely different ballgame.

tourdeforce
12-17-2006, 01:36 AM
Yes a better word, Green eyes, brown hair ...

I will make a note that hair and eye color are approved forms of description.

By the way, what color is your cat? I can't tell because you only chose to describe it as obese in your profile.

dclary
12-17-2006, 01:36 AM
There's flapping your gums just for the hell of it. Actually, because you've got the stage, per se. And then there's taking a stand and following it through with an action. If I were to draw a direct comparison between the Chicks and Bono, the Chicks do the former and Bono does the latter.

I have tremendous respect for Bono; he's a true ambassador and utilizes his celebrity with class and dignity.

As much as I don't like the Chicks' politics, Jean, I think it's fair to say that at the point in U2s career that the Chicks find themselves, Bono's political activism was no more than theirs is. Just a mouth on a stage.

tourdeforce
12-17-2006, 01:39 AM
Again, the easiest to come by.


I go for the asy laughs nd he hard ones. depends on what the situation calls for and what will work best.

Far too much is being made out of this.

dclary
12-17-2006, 01:44 AM
Tour, Matt, Another insensitive reference like this and I am going to blast you, and I'll accept my punishment from Mac w/ grace. I'd delete your tasteless comments if I could. It's a slap to all.

Asking if she was the chubby one isn't insensitive, since one of them is clearly girthier than the others. It would have been MUCH more insensitive to ask "Of the three dogs, which is the husky one?"

William Haskins
12-17-2006, 01:46 AM
Depends on the description and the intent.

ah, yes. context. so is it appropriate to say when natalie spews her bumpersticker politics, it gives me a chubby?

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 01:46 AM
I go for the asy laughs nd he hard ones. depends on what the situation calls for and what will work best.

Far too much is being made out of this.


I'm thinking you're a bit off on this one in terms of what would work best.

Kimmi's cat, by the way, is no doubt a wonderful, beautiful little tiger. He/she, however, is not capable of knowing it is being called obese--and once again, there's the intent factor. She doesn't do it out of thoughtlessness.

Certainly, there are bigger fish to fry, but at the moment, you're fishing in this pond.

dclary
12-17-2006, 01:55 AM
ah, yes. context. so is it appropriate to say when natalie spews her bumpersticker politics, it gives me a chubby?

Only if it's true, Haskins.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 01:55 AM
ah, yes. context. so is it appropriate to say when natalie spews her bumpersticker politics, it gives me a chubby?

Tour, take note. This was creative. I don't agree with it, but at least it's clever.

Edited to include great big smilie face so Tour knows I'm teasing, William knows I'm giving him a compliment, and I don't look like a big hypocrite with all my talk about intent.


And yes, William, I'm avoiding the question. I've seen you in a few TIO boards.

You scare me.

William Haskins
12-17-2006, 01:56 AM
yeah, gotham. take note.

here endeth the lesson, and all that.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 02:01 AM
Tour, take note. This was creative. I don't agree with it, but at least it's clever.


And yes, William, I'm avoiding the question. I've seen you in a few TIO boards.

You scare me.

Have fun Alia... they know this, they'll be gentle..and they're really brilliant..you'll learn:D

Tiger
12-17-2006, 02:01 AM
Not a joke when it's at someone elses expense...it becomes offensive, and I have had to wince at it twice. I find it hurtful. I'm rail thin, but I detest people who reference people this way. It defiled this conversation.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

But, didn't this thread start with you congratulating the Dixie Chicks for being able to rise above public censure? Then, you criticized your local radio station for not playing the DC's music (I think "ban" was not really the right word here because the station's decision about what to play was their choice in their own station and affected no one else).

But, now you're telling someone that you'd delete his posts from a public forum if you could?

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 02:05 AM
yeah, gotham. take note.

here endeth the lesson, and all that.

See edit in previous post. :)

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 02:15 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

But, didn't this thread start with you congratulating the Dixie Chicks for being able to rise above public censure? Then, you criticized your local radio station for not playing the DC's music (I think "ban" was not really the right word here because the station's decision about what to play was their choice in their own station and affected no one else).

But, now you're telling someone that you'd delete his posts from a public forum if you could?

I would indeed when it becomes hurtful as I've had other peoples private thoughts on this. I simply don't care for it...period.
Clear Channel...like I care about them when they decided what I could listen too...and dictated such...they took my freedom away. But only momentarily...Not Ready To Make Nice, as they say...

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 02:18 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

But, didn't this thread start with you congratulating the Dixie Chicks for being able to rise above public censure? Then, you criticized your local radio station for not playing the DC's music (I think "ban" was not really the right word here because the station's decision about what to play was their choice in their own station and affected no one else).

But, now you're telling someone that you'd delete his posts from a public forum if you could?

The radio station was within their rights to not play the Dixie Chicks and Kimmi was within her rights to be royally pissed about it.
And, I mentioned this before, there is a difference to making a statement about a politician's actions and making a derogatory comment on a thread where it had no relevance.
True, a person has (or should have) the right to say whatever they please. I

retain the right to do whatever I can to shut them up--or better yet, change their mind--if I find their statements offensive. :D

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 02:21 AM
With the recent turn back towards sanity that the country is undergoing, I wonder if the anti-Chicks crowd are feeling really stupid now.

No... not particularly. ;)

Tiger
12-17-2006, 02:29 AM
The radio station was within their rights to not play the Dixie Chicks and Kimmi was within her rights to be royally pissed about it.
And, I mentioned this before, there is a difference to making a statement about a politician's actions and making a derogatory comment on a thread where it had no relevance.
True, a person has (or should have) the right to say whatever they please. I

retain the right to do whatever I can to shut them up--or better yet, change their mind--if I find their statements offensive. :D

Removing comments one doesn't agree with from a discussion is not the same thing as deciding what you are going to air in your own radio station.

This is interesting: you actually think that if you cannot win an argument, you are justified in doing what you can to keep the oppostion from from speaking?

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 02:31 AM
No... not particularly. ;)

This is true jen as I felt many did not straddle the fence on this one and will remain fiercly loyal to their side.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 02:37 AM
This is interesting: you actually think that if you cannot win an argument, you are justified in doing what you can to keep the oppostion from from speaking?

That's why the smilie face was included.

Although, in the spirit of the argument--would you not if the people speaking were, say, Nazis?

Tiger
12-17-2006, 02:43 AM
I would indeed when it becomes hurtful as I've had other peoples private thoughts on this. I simply don't care for it...period.
Clear Channel...like I care about them when they decided what I could listen too...and dictated such...they took my freedom away. But only momentarily...Not Ready To Make Nice, as they say...

Clear Channel was able to take your freedom away? How on earth did they do that?

I believe that you and your friends do not have the right to make decisions on what the public gets to read. Nobody here is talking about taking away peoples' rights but you.

dclary
12-17-2006, 02:47 AM
Clear channel has goons who watch to see what channel you're listening to, Tiger. If you don't listen to their radio station, or say, try to get your ipod to work in the car, they come beat you senseless and then change your radio presets.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 02:54 AM
Clear channel has goons who watch to see what channel you're listening to, Tiger. If you don't listen to their radio station, or say, try to get your ipod to work in the car, they come beat you senseless and then change your radio presets.

:roll:

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 02:55 AM
Clear Channel was able to take your freedom away? How on earth did they do that?

I believe that you and your friends do not have the right to make decisions on what the public gets to read. Nobody here is talking about taking away peoples' rights but you.

The insensitive comments can't be deleted by Kimmi or her friends, so really, the point is mute.

The question is: why make the comments at all?

Tiger
12-17-2006, 02:58 AM
That's why the smilie face was included.

Although, in the spirit of the argument--would you not if the people speaking were, say, Nazis?

Okay, I missed the smilie. Sorry. I mean that.

Looking back, I erred in referring to this as a "public forum," it's not. Somebody owns it.

Even ignoring for now the fact that "chubby" is not the N-word, nor is it genocide-inspiring speech, socio-political debates among the educated tend to moderate themselves. I believe that if a Nazi showed up here, s/he'd pretty much be argued through the nearest wall and we'd all be entertained.

"I don't like what you said, so I'm going to make sure nobody hears you," by the way, is something the Nazis said all the time.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 03:06 AM
I go for the asy laughs nd he hard ones. depends on what the situation calls for and what will work best.

Far too much is being made out of this.

When the 'easy laughs' or the 'hard ones' are gotten at the expense of others on the board, far too little is being made of this. We don't crack jokes at the expense of race, religious leanings or lack thereof, sexual orientation, mental issues, or illnesses - why is it so hard to lay off height, width and breadth?

You didn't put enough information in your profile for us to pick on your personal weakness; but if you had, I'm sure we could have ganged up on you and shown you the error of your thinking.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 03:08 AM
Clear Channel was able to take your freedom away? How on earth did they do that?

I believe that you and your friends do not have the right to make decisions on what the public gets to read. Nobody here is talking about taking away peoples' rights but you.

Big Daddy Clear Channel wants to play "your favorite music", (before the incident) but flip flopped when they were inudated with requests to do so.

All the sudden it became clear, they had decided to play what they wanted you to hear.
...Again girls welcome home.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 03:09 AM
Even ignoring for now the fact that "chubby" is not the N-word, nor is it genocide-inspiring speech, socio-political debates among the educated tend to moderate themselves. I believe that if a Nazi showed up here, s/he'd pretty much be argued through the nearest wall and we'd all be entertained.

"I don't like what you said, so I'm going to make sure nobody hears you," by the way, is something the Nazis said all the time.

No problem Re the smilie.

True, someone's personal feelings about their weight is not exactly on the level of filth spewed by Nazis, but it could have hurt someone all the same. So again, why? When it wasn't relevant to the conversation?

Kimmi and her friends (one of whom is currently enjoying this debate) are neither interested, nor capable of committing mass murder to ensure people use their grown up manners.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 03:14 AM
Interesting that you felt the need to convey that you're rail thin.
What was that? A disclaimer?

Maybe she was trying to derail the folks who were thinking, "Of course she'd feel that way. She's fat." Someone who's opposite of the insult du jour couldn't possibly be defending someone outside his/her own 'type', could they?

But I'm here to be the one who says, "I'm fat. You're insulting me." Just like others would be here, if the subject were offensive to gays, to say, "I'm gay. You're insulting me." Or I'm black, Indian, Oklahoman, Japanese, Puerto Rican, a midget, legless or schitzophrenic, ad infinitum.

I don't see why it's so difficult for folks to understand. It's pretty easy to avoid making fun of people. Just... well... don't. :Shrug:

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 03:14 AM
To see example of post not relevant to current conversation look up.:D

Sorry Kimmi

-Crap. 'Ol Fashioned Girl, you type too fast [smilie]. Post #88. #88!!!

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 03:17 AM
Where did he insult anybody on this board, ofg?

He wasn't taking pot shots at fat people? He wasn't the one trying to pinpoint Maines as the 'chubby one'? If not, we can just shift my comments to the general populous, with my heart-felt apologies for nailing him unfairly.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 03:18 AM
Interesting that you felt the need to convey that you're rail thin.
What was that? A disclaimer?

Ah yes...but that was aimed at me. I don't like to be called such...But I'm not hurtful to others...just an eg

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 03:21 AM
Maybe she was trying to derail the folks who were thinking, "Of course she'd feel that way. She's fat." Someone who's opposite of the insult du jour couldn't possibly be defending someone outside his/her own 'type', could they?

But I'm here to be the one who says, "I'm fat. You're insulting me." Just like others would be here, if the subject were offensive to gays, to say, "I'm gay. You're insulting me." Or I'm black, Indian, Oklahoman, Japanese, Puerto Rican, a midget, legless or schitzophrenic, ad infinitum.

I don't see why it's so difficult for folks to understand. It's pretty easy to avoid making fun of people. Just... well... don't. :Shrug:

This says it all...Simple english, we can not be hurtful or even hint at such...I hope someone would call me on such if I ever am!

greglondon
12-17-2006, 03:25 AM
kimmie, don't let the guys here get you down.

If people can only talk about what the "know" about , then someone should tell Rush to shut up about politics and talk about what he DOES know about: faking prescriptions for his drug habit.

Ann Coulter knows witches because she is one, or maybe she was once a man. Or both.

And Bush, well, he hasn't done one thing right in his entire life, other than fail at one thing or another and have someone else bail him out

Tiger
12-17-2006, 03:27 AM
The question is: why make the comments at all?

Okay, I understand that she can't delete posts, but the point's not moot: I'm addressing an idea, not an action.

The fact that she said she would delete his posts if she could goes directly against what she said in her previous posts. What's left sounds like: "I like fill-in-the-blank and I don't like fill-in-the-blank, so we should allow one and ban the other." That's not an argument, that's a stated preference.

As for "why make the comments at all?" Well, as far as I know, there is no word shortage and from what I've seen here, people are not overly concerned about wasting one or two here and there (albeit, once in a great while).:)

If something is stupid or offensive, for the luvva pete, argue it into submission. Show people how offensive or stupid it is. If you can't do this, how stupid could the comment have been?

If you cannot prove that it is offensive beyond yourself, then you've no business using your blackout pen for the rest of the planet. Simply erasing something proves nothing.

Regards,

Dean

Celia Cyanide
12-17-2006, 03:28 AM
Any record at all of the phantom dead son would be appreciated.

Wikipedia lists her as having one child. The other was not mentioned. Not that wikipedia is perfect, but wouldn't that be something they would mention?

Tiger
12-17-2006, 03:32 AM
He wasn't taking pot shots at fat people? He wasn't the one trying to pinpoint Maines as the 'chubby one'? If not, we can just shift my comments to the general populous, with my heart-felt apologies for nailing him unfairly.

I don't know whether chubby was meant the way it's being portrayed here. But, really: should he have instead referred to her as "the blonde one?"

Tiger
12-17-2006, 03:37 AM
Big Daddy Clear Channel wants to play "your favorite music", (before the incident) but flip flopped when they were inudated with requests to do so.

All the sudden it became clear, they had decided to play what they wanted you to hear.
...Again girls welcome home.

What they choose to broadcast does not affect your rights, civil or otherwise.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 03:53 AM
Kimmi and her friends (one of whom is currently enjoying this debate) are neither interested, nor capable of committing mass murder to ensure people use their grown up manners.

Uh, I wasn't the one who brought Nazis into this conversation...

Also, now that you're bringing relative maturity into it as well, I will say that removing opposing views from an argument is a little like taking your ball and going home.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 04:18 AM
Ann Coulter knows witches because she is one, or maybe she was once a man. Or both.

And there you go insulting my religion. ;)

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 04:23 AM
Now there are alot of comments that are going to feel abrasive to somebody. Personally, I give em and get em all the time. But how do you define humor? Some of the best lines are inherently hostile, but not meant to take personally or too personally.

Tour took the opportunity to take a physical observation about a celebrity and throw it out there for a chuckle. I don't think he said fat and ugly. I think somebody assigned that to his remark and equated chubby with something awful. Well it's not. It's just a nothing of a comment.

So I can make funnies about queers and not hurt Mac? I can toss off a quicky about niggers and not offend our black members? It's okay to chuckle about retards and Jenna's going to be okay with that? Jokes about kikes won't tick Teddy off? Gimme a break.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 04:24 AM
Eek, she leaves to give her mom a ride from work and bam!

Give me a moment. I'll come up with some comments.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 04:25 AM
And there you go insulting my religion. ;)

Man is a religion? Gross!

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 04:26 AM
Man is a religion? Gross!

Welll, I could've gone for the insinuation that since Coulter is ballsy, she must've once been a man...

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 04:28 AM
Tiger you are right Mac owns this board, and you join with her rules....

I like her rules, Bird of Prey...respect, real simple kindergarten language.

Tiger you twist my words...go back to my first post...I think I'm quite clear...without the profound $100 words.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 04:37 AM
Tiger you are right Mac owns this board, and you join with her rules....

I like her rules, Bird of Prey...respect, real simple kindergarten language.

Tiger you twist my words...go back to my first post...I think I'm quite clear...without the profound $100 words.

What does your first post have to do with wanting to delete a post you don't agree with? As for twisting your words: you really don't need my help with that... I forgot: I'm not breaking any rules as far as I can see. Deleting someone's post? If it were possible, that would be breaking the rules.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 04:37 AM
Okay, I understand that she can't delete posts, but the point's not moot: I'm addressing an idea, not an action.

The fact that she said she would delete his posts if she could goes directly against what she said in her previous posts. What's left sounds like: "I like fill-in-the-blank and I don't like fill-in-the-blank, so we should allow one and ban the other." That's not an argument, that's a stated preference.

As for "why make the comments at all?" Well, as far as I know, there is no word shortage and from what I've seen here, people are not overly concerned about wasting one or two here and there (albeit, once in a great while).:)

If something is stupid or offensive, for the luvva pete, argue it into submission. Show people how offensive or stupid it is. If you can't do this, how stupid could the comment have been?

If you cannot prove that it is offensive beyond yourself, then you've no business using your blackout pen for the rest of the planet. Simply erasing something proves nothing.

Regards,

Dean
Someone tell me how to pull quotes apart so I can respond to pieces at a time without confusing the hell out of myself and every poor soul reading. Please.

I believe I said the point was mute not moot. Therefore, your argument is no longer valid. :)

Perhaps we're arguing two different topics. You the idea, mine the action.

Also, you're assuming that the person taking offense is capable of defending his/herself (not that anyone here isn't) or capable of defending his/herself well. Just because an idea is stupid, doesn't mean it can't be successfully argued. Happens all the time (insert joke about my own post here).

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 04:39 AM
Copy and past, then highlight the entire piece you just copied and pasted and click on the little 'dialogue balloon' (looks like a square with a tail, with writing inside). That'll put it in a quote box. ;)

Tiger
12-17-2006, 04:39 AM
Welll, I could've gone for the insinuation that since Coulter is ballsy, she must've once been a man...

Please don't blame Ann Coulter on us.

greglondon
12-17-2006, 04:40 AM
And there you go insulting my religion. ;)

You're not Klingon Wiccan, are you? I have a generally policy of never insulting Klingon Wiccans....

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 04:45 AM
Alia, go ask ol' girl, she'll know and be glad to help.



kimmi bad at buttons

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 04:45 AM
I believe, bottom line, before anyone cracks a funny at another group's expense, try putting a face on that group. For fat folks, go ahead and use mine. If it feels good hurting my feelings, go ahead; but don't expect not to be called on it by somebody.

And to drag this thread kicking and screaming back to its pre-hijacked subject: I don't like the Chicks - Dixie or no. I believe every single one of 'em has a right to say whatever they want to say, but they shouldn't say it in a bar in a foreign country - and they (or any other celebrity I'm paying good money to see act or sing) shouldn't use their bully pulpit to preach or politicize. If I went to hear them speak on politics or religion, that'd be one thing. But if I'm payin' you to sing for me, dammit, sing. If I'm payin' you to act, act. If you want to do something else, do it on your own time and I'll either come - or not. Pretty simple.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 04:46 AM
You're not Klingon Wiccan, are you? I have a generally policy of never insulting Klingon Wiccans....

No... no, I'm Elaasian.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 04:55 AM
How's this?




Quote from Bird of Prey. Now there are alot of comments that are going to feel abrasive to somebody. Personally, I give em and get em all the time. But how do you define humor? Some of the best lines are inherently hostile, but not meant to take personally or too personally.

I'm not attempting to define humor. I'm saying, take a moment to see at what price that quick chuckle comes, and at who's paying it.



Tour took the opportunity to take a physical observation about a celebrity and throw it out there for a chuckle. I don't think he said fat and ugly. I think somebody assigned that to his remark and equated chubby with something awful. Well it's not. It's just a nothing of a comment.


It was said about a celebrity, true, but he wouldn't have thrown it out there for a chuckle if being chubby wasn't considered funny, would he? It was a comment on physical appearance that he knew (unless he's been living in a cave) could hurt someone who happened to be reading.

It's a nothing of a comment to you and a lot of others. Not to someone else. At this point, couldn't someone just say. "Well sh!t, should've thought before I wrote that one. Sorry." Then it would probably be a nothing quote to everyone.

Thanks 'Ol Fashioned Girl!

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 04:58 AM
I believe, bottom line, before anyone cracks a funny at another group's expense, try putting a face on that group. For fat folks, go ahead and use mine. If it feels good hurting my feelings, go ahead; but don't expect not to be called on it by somebody.

And to drag this thread kicking and screaming back to its pre-hijacked subject: I don't like the Chicks - Dixie or no. I believe every single one of 'em has a right to say whatever they want to say, but they shouldn't say it in a bar in a foreign country - and they (or any other celebrity I'm paying good money to see act or sing) shouldn't use their bully pulpit to preach or politicize. If I went to hear them speak on politics or religion, that'd be one thing. But if I'm payin' you to sing for me, dammit, sing. If I'm payin' you to act, act. If you want to do something else, do it on your own time and I'll either come - or not. Pretty simple.

..I like these kids, and I am ready for them to come back...they have taken the long road too long as Natalie puts it.

I don't like cracking distasteful funnies about weight, etc... at other peoples expense...and I will never not stand up to this!

Tickled that they may become honored with Album of the Year.
I honestly believe that kid (Natalie) in her mind, believed she didn't do wrong. She may have regreted it later...but she wouldn't back down... Sometimes too much sass...Time to let these Chicks fly again.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 05:00 AM
Someone tell me how to pull quotes apart so I can respond to pieces at a time without confusing the hell out of myself and every poor soul reading. Please.

Let's see if this comes out right.


I believe I said the point was mute not moot. Therefore, your argument is no longer valid. :)

No, that would be moot... Unless you're trying to say that deleting posts is a silent, or voiceless "point."


Perhaps we're arguing two different topics. You the idea, mine the action.

Okay. I'll try this on for a while. If you think that an offended person should be able to remove a post from a forum, then I'll have to stick with us arguing the same point.


Also, you're assuming that the person taking offense is capable of defending his/herself (not that anyone here isn't) or capable of defending his/herself well. Just because an idea is stupid, doesn't mean it can't be successfully argued. Happens all the time (insert joke about my own post here).

You're not being sarcastic, so neither will I. Okay, that is an assumption I shouldn't be making. However, if the offending word/idea affects people, someone or manyones ought to be able to turn it to composte. A bad idea is a bad idea. If it is out there and being read by lots of people, it'll find its own way out. That's all I'm saying.

Removing a post that bothers you accomplishes nothing save to keep you from having to look at it. Leaving it out there for people to argue over will (should) serve to make your views better understood--especially if you're right.

Regards,

Dean

greglondon
12-17-2006, 05:02 AM
No... no, I'm Elaasian.

Well, sorry if I offended your wiccan religion. I may have been too sloppy with my comments regarding Coulter. By "witch", I probably should more acurately have said "harpie", as in those 9-11 widows she called witches and harpies and whatnot. So, I should have said she's a male harpie. Hm. interesting how it creates a nearly perfect image.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 05:15 AM
Some people get hurt by being called 'skinny'.

If the opposite hurts someone's feelings, it hurts someone's feelings. All the logic in the universe, as espoused by BoP, isn't going to change that.

And if you sent a PM, it didn't come to me.

dclary
12-17-2006, 05:20 AM
Good lord.

If someone is hurt by being called skinny, the solution is obviously to stop being skinny. Either that or learn to accept that the word used to describe you is accurate.

If someone is hurt by being chubby, that person needs to either accept the terms that describe her, or stop being chubby.

Good lord I hate the Age of Victimization, and the Rule of Sensitivists.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 05:22 AM
Good lord.

If someone is hurt by being called skinny, the solution is obviously to stop being skinny. Either that or learn to accept that the word used to describe you is accurate.

If someone is hurt by being chubby, that person needs to either accept the terms that describe her, or stop being chubby.

Good lord I hate the Age of Victimization, and the Rule of Sensitivists.


Thats just plain dumb, Dclary...your words ie

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 05:26 AM
[QUOTE]No, that would be moot... Unless you're trying to say that deleting posts is a silent, or voiceless "point."

Yeah, I know. Poking fun at my typo. Gotta watch those smilies.


You're not being sarcastic, so neither will I. Okay, that is an assumption I shouldn't be making. However, if the offending word/idea affects people, someone or manyones ought to be able to turn it to composte. A bad idea is a bad idea. If it is out there and being read by lots of people, it'll find its own way out. That's all I'm saying.

Removing a post that bothers you accomplishes nothing save to keep you from having to look at it. Leaving it out there for people to argue over will (should) serve to make your views better understood--especially if you're right.

Regards,

Dean

That I'll buy. Absolutely. Notice, however, that no one has mentioned wanting to remove the discussion. Lemonade from lemons.

On original topic--did the link work Kimmi?

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 05:26 AM
Good lord.

If someone is hurt by being called skinny, the solution is obviously to stop being skinny. Either that or learn to accept that the word used to describe you is accurate.

If someone is hurt by being chubby, that person needs to either accept the terms that describe her, or stop being chubby.

Good lord I hate the Age of Victimization, and the Rule of Sensitivists.

Thanks for being sensitive and clarifying.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 05:30 AM
Yes, but I was trying to be sensitive about it anyway. Dirt-face.

You're too kind. ;) No. I mean it. Really.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 05:32 AM
I can only compare it to an archer. If you're standing five feet away and he shoots, yes, it's gonna hurt. But if he doesn't take aim at anyone here; rather he takes aim at a person so far off, she's impossible to hit, there's a difference. Most important, there was no tip on that arrow.

Still responsible if it manages to go through an eye.

English Dave
12-17-2006, 05:32 AM
Yes, but I was trying to be sensitive about it anyway. Dirt-face.

And that might get you pussy. But in the long term is it worth it?


Wait.....let me think about that.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 05:33 AM
[quote=Tiger]


Yeah, I know. Poking fun at my typo. Gotta watch those smilies.

Argh. If I miss another joke because of a smilie, I'll.... I'll.....*



That I'll buy. Absolutely. Notice, however, that no one has mentioned wanting to remove the discussion. Lemonade from lemons.

On original topic--did the link work Kimmi?

Excellent! So, you're going now to buy lemonade?

Tiger
12-17-2006, 05:35 AM
Yes, but I was trying to be sensitive about it anyway. Dirt-face.

I'm hurt by "Dirt-face"

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 05:39 AM
Well thank you. OFG. I suspect that if I called you the same, I'd be on the mark.

If I understood what you just said, I might be hurt. Then again, I might laugh my ass off. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... this time.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 05:40 AM
Good lord.

If someone is hurt by being called skinny, the solution is obviously to stop being skinny. Either that or learn to accept that the word used to describe you is accurate.

If someone is hurt by being chubby, that person needs to either accept the terms that describe her, or stop being chubby.

Good lord I hate the Age of Victimization, and the Rule of Sensitivists.

...And by "Sensivist"

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 05:42 AM
Ah - saw that, alia. The laughs are comin tonight.

A little funny. Mostly serious. We are responsible for our actions.

English Dave
12-17-2006, 05:43 AM
LOL! How would you know? It's been so long, Dave.

.

That's why I've got to think about it.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 05:43 AM
I just called you kind. The benefit of the doubt was indeed the right decision.

:Hug2:

C.bronco
12-17-2006, 05:44 AM
Where's Billy?
(I'm just causing trouble.)

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 05:46 AM
[quote=aliajohnson]

Argh. If I miss another joke because of a smilie, I'll.... I'll.....*:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)




Excellent! So, you're going now to buy lemonade?


;)

Tiger
12-17-2006, 05:50 AM
[quote=Tiger]


;)

"I'll smile-smile-smile-smile-smile-smile....?"

Well, if smiling's the best statement I can make...:)

Bravo
12-17-2006, 05:50 AM
Good lord.

If someone is hurt by being called skinny, the solution is obviously to stop being skinny. Either that or learn to accept that the word used to describe you is accurate.

If someone is hurt by being chubby, that person needs to either accept the terms that describe her, or stop being chubby.

Good lord I hate the Age of Victimization, and the Rule of Sensitivists.

Thank you.

billythrilly7th
12-17-2006, 05:51 AM
With the recent turn back towards sanity that the country is undergoing, I wonder if the anti-Chicks crowd are feeling really stupid now.

The only thing Natalie Mains did wrong, which she apparently still doesn't quite understand, nor do her defenders, is that she made her comments on foreign soil for cheap applause.

There's no defense for that.

It's just disgusting or as they say in England..."Bad form"

You don't go to a foreign country and bad mouth your own President and/or country.

She wouldn't have said those things if she was performing in Texas, that's for sure.

And it boggles the mind of all clear thinking people as to why people who defend her don't understand that one simple point.

But... :Shrug:

It's out of my hands.

Thank you.

billythrilly7th
12-17-2006, 05:52 AM
Where's Billy?
(I'm just causing trouble.)

Here.

Some thread titles don't grab me.

I eventually get to most of them though.

Thank you for caring.

The Thrill

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 05:53 AM
[quote=kimmi 57]

"I'll smile-smile-smile-smile-smile-smile....?"



Well, if smiling's the best statement I can make...:)

Tiger don't you have smileys in your drop down?:tongue

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 05:53 AM
If he just did 'Post Quick Reply', no, he wouldn't have smilies in a drop down menu.

Bravo
12-17-2006, 05:54 AM
You don't go to a foreign country and bad mouth your own President and/or country.
.

The President is fair game.

She didn't badmouth the country.

C.bronco
12-17-2006, 05:55 AM
Thanks bud. I couldn't help cringing after i read the titile of the thread, and thought you'd be more apt at rebuttal.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 05:57 AM
I do... But (as you can see) I sometimes miss them in other peoples' posts and end up looking like I don't have a sense of humor. Maybe I've got yellow-blindness...

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 05:57 AM
The only thing Natalie Mains did wrong, which she apparently still doesn't quite understand, nor do her defenders, is that she made her comments on foreign soil for cheap applause.

There's no defense for that.

It's just disgusting or as they say in England..."Bad form"

You don't go to a foreign country and bad mouth your own President and/or country.

She wouldn't have said those things if she was performing in Texas, that's for sure.

And it boggles the mind of all clear thinking people as to why people who defend her don't understand that one simple point.

But... :Shrug:

It's out of my hands.

Thank you.

Sorry guys, Kimmi can't do that paste copy yet.

Billy, I am a clear thinking person. it clearly boggles my mind that it could be encompassed into one simple point.

Yeah I think that kid had the sass to say it in Texas...uhmm maybe she still will.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 06:02 AM
Thanks bud. I couldn't help cringing after i read the titile of the thread, and thought you'd be more apt at rebuttal.

Gee Cbronco, can't understand why your here:Shrug:

billythrilly7th
12-17-2006, 06:03 AM
The President is fair game.

Not on foreign soil and all clear thinking people understand the difference between and cowardice of her saying the same comment at the Dallas Arena vs. overseas.

They teach about it in Citizenship 101.

What a cowardly treasonish move.

3000 miles away from Texas to a foreign crowd.....

"I'm embarressed the President is from Texas."

YAY! CLAP CLAP...

"Yay Natalie!!!"

All clear thinking people understand what she did wrong.

But as the Old Thrilly adage goes...

"Some people, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em."

:Shrug:

billythrilly7th
12-17-2006, 06:07 AM
Yeah I think that kid had the sass to say it in Texas...uhmm maybe she still will.

Well, it's three years now?

Still waiting.

If she had made the same comment in Texas, I wouldn't bat an eye.

"Hey fellow Texans and Americans, I'm embarressed the President is from our home state."

Maybe some clap, maybe some boo, whatever. But she's talking to people she should be talking to about this. That's totally cool....say your piece, baby.

Not some foreign country, thousands of miles away.

Vvvvvatever.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 06:11 AM
Give the audience what they want and they'll love you and buy your album

alices
12-17-2006, 06:11 AM
President Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut. He's a Connecticut Yankee.

billythrilly7th
12-17-2006, 06:12 AM
Thanks bud. I couldn't help cringing after i read the titile of the thread, and thought you'd be more apt at rebuttal.

lol..thanks.

No offense to Kimmi, it just wasn't a title that grabbed me...

I saw "whoo hoo for those chicks!" and didn't even really know or have the inclination to find out what it meant.

I thought maybe it had something to do with rich female CEO's or something.

lol..:Shrug:

But I'm here, I rebutted and all clear thinking people understand the difference between what you say and where you say it.

Paltrow wants to go on Leno and talk about how she hates her country and how stupid we are, be my guest.

To some foreign magazine over in Europe.

Traitorish!!

And she should be hung at dawn just like Mainy.

Well, maybe that's a little harsh.

Thank you.

Good evening.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 06:14 AM
lol..thanks.

No offense to Kimmi, it just wasn't a title that grabbed me...

I saw "whoo hoo for those chicks!" and didn't even really know or have the inclination to find out what it meant.

I thought maybe it had something to do with rich female CEO's or something.

lol..:Shrug:

But I'm here, I rebutted and all clear thinking people understand the difference between what you say and where you say it.

Paltrow wants to go on Leno and talk about how she hates her country and how stupid we are, be my guest.

To some foreign magazine over in Europe.

Traitorish!!

And she should be hung at dawn just like Mainy.

Well, maybe that's a little harsh.

Thank you.

Good evening.
:tongue None taken Billy...I wish she would of said it in Texas! Time to let the Chicks fly in all fairness.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 06:16 AM
Give the audience what they want and they'll love you and buy your album

Tiger you can use your keyboard to make smileys :) see

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 06:17 AM
Hello Alice, I see you magnified your avatar.

billythrilly7th
12-17-2006, 06:21 AM
:tongue None taken Billy...I wish she would of said it in Texas! Time to let the Chicks fly in all fairness.

Me too on the Texas thing.

I'll tell ya what, if she had said it in Texas and across her United States trek, and then taken it on tour with her around the world, I'd cut her slack too.

But opening night for a meatball like that to be on foreign soil in front of a bunch of clapping hyenas is unforgivable.

With that said, I really don't give that much of a damn and never have about this entire issue.

I'm just a man who likes for people to understand their mistakes and apologize.

This girl, and I'll be fair, she's a few tacos short of a combination platter, just doesnt understand where she went wrong and what a weak move it is to criticize your country and/or President on foreign soil. If she did and apologized for just that aspect, I could care less what she thinks about PrezGWB and I'd be rocking out to music other than theirs but you get my point.

Oh well.

Like I said..."Some people, if they don't know, you can't tell them."

I'm outta here.

peace ya'll

Tiger
12-17-2006, 06:22 AM
Tiger you can use your keyboard to make smileys :) see

Truth's to tell, I don't even like using exclamation marks if I don't have to--preferring as I do to let my shovel... I mean, words, show my meaning.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 06:25 AM
Hi Alice! I'll admit to not knowing where Bush was born, but I'm pretty sure he's considered Texan. I was born in Montana, left at two and lived a dozen places since. I'm not a Montanan, Montanian . . . whatever.

Billy--a traitor? Seriously? Bad taste, I'll consider, but traitor is going too far.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 06:31 AM
Truth's to tell, I don't even like using exclamation marks if I don't have to--preferring as I do to let my shovel... I mean, words, show my meaning.

:D You have good words, Tiger! nite kiddo

Tiger
12-17-2006, 06:33 AM
:D You have good words, Tiger! nite kiddo

Ah... 'tis my shovel work that is truly inspiring

billythrilly7th
12-17-2006, 06:36 AM
Billy--a traitor? Seriously? Bad taste, I'll consider, but traitor is going too far.

Yes.

But I find things like this ...

"Traitor!!!!"

..amusing.

Thank you.
:)

Tiger
12-17-2006, 06:38 AM
Yes.

But I find things like this ...

"Traitor!!!!"

..amusing.

Thank you.
:)

I always liked: "SEIZE HIM!!!" and "BEHOLD!!!"

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 06:39 AM
Yes.

But I find things like this ...

"Traitor!!!!"

..amusing.

Thank you.
:)
Alia you're too sweet, hugs kimmi

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:40 AM
Thats just plain dumb, Dclary...your words ie

Sorry, but but calling my words names won't hurt them, because they, like I, believe that self-esteem is earned by having something within yourself worth something. You don't just respect people for the hell of it. Respect has to be earned to have any value.

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:40 AM
Thanks for being sensitive and clarifying.

You're welcome.

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:42 AM
Yes, but I was trying to be sensitive about it anyway. Dirt-face.

It's beard-stubble. I swear!

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 06:43 AM
Sorry, but but calling my words names won't hurt them, because they, like I, believe that self-esteem is earned by having something within yourself worth something. You don't just respect people for the hell of it. Respect has to be earned to have any value.

Dclary, whens Mac letting you all out...I don't like this, I like the old way you talk...You'll all be traumatized by the time you all get back next week and she'll have to take you back again for posttraumactic stress and desensitize;)

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:43 AM
...And by "Sensivist"

Is there more to this post? Because I don't understand it as written.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 06:45 AM
That was following: "I'm hurt by 'Dirt-Face"' so, "I'm also hurt by 'sensivist'"

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:48 AM
Dclary, whens Mac letting you all out...I don't like this, I like the old way you talk...You'll all be traumatized by the time you all get back next week and she'll have to take you back again for posttraumactic stress and desensitize;)

Post-traumactic is right! Damn that chubby squashed gopher!!

Tiger
12-17-2006, 06:49 AM
Post-traumactic is right! Damn that chubby squashed gopher!!

I don't think you should say "chu...." Ah, hellfire, nevermind!

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:49 AM
That was following: "I'm hurt by 'Dirt-Face"' so, "I'm also hurt by 'sensivist'"

Ah, ok. I was confused because I called the mamby-pamby tightwads who are so concerned with everyone's feelings "sensitivists" and not "sensivists" and thus wasn't sure what you'd meant. Sorry.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 06:50 AM
Post-traumactic is right! Damn that chubby squashed gopher!!

banishment I'm running...no kidding miss you guys:tongue

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:51 AM
I don't think you should say "chu...." Ah, hellfire, nevermind!

You gotta admit, it takes balls to make a statement like that. Too bad Mac's gonna crush them in her Mod-powered nutcracker.

:(

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:52 AM
I'm going to claim temporary insanity, based on trying to adhere to my new rules for a week. Throw myself on the mercy of the court.

Yeah, that'll work!

:D

Tiger
12-17-2006, 06:53 AM
Ah, ok. I was confused because I called the mamby-pamby tightwads who are so concerned with everyone's feelings "sensitivists" and not "sensivists" and thus wasn't sure what you'd meant. Sorry.

I think--and I'm only saying this to be provocative-- "mamby-pamby tightwads" is better than "sensitivist."

dclary
12-17-2006, 06:54 AM
I think--and I'm only saying this to be provocative-- "mamby-pamby tightwads" is better than "sensitivist."

Perhaps, but the shorter term is more efficient, and thus is my preferred phrase for these kinds of people.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 06:54 AM
You gotta admit, it takes balls to make a statement like that. Too bad Mac's gonna crush them in her Mod-powered nutcracker.

:(

Yeow... Pardon my sympathetic clutching motion.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 07:07 AM
mamby-pamby tightwads who are so concerned with everyone's feelings

Mamby-pampy I get (and accept with pride), but I'm lost on the tightwad. I thought that was used to describe someone who pinches pennies. Am I wrong on that?

maestrowork
12-17-2006, 07:32 AM
I think singers should shut up and sing. I think actors should shut up and act. I think writers should shut up and write.

I think politicians should shut up and go home.

dclary
12-17-2006, 07:35 AM
Mamby-pampy I get (and accept with pride), but I'm lost on the tightwad. I thought that was used to describe someone who pinches pennies. Am I wrong on that?

You're right. I meant tightass but used the wrong phrase. Thanks for the catch.

aliajohnson
12-17-2006, 07:53 AM
You're right. I meant tightass but used the wrong phrase. Thanks for the catch.

My pleasure. Mamby-pamby tightass. Check. Just out of curiosity, why is it so less cool to be one than say . . . an insensitive clod? :D

dclary
12-17-2006, 09:10 AM
My pleasure. Mamby-pamby tightass. Check. Just out of curiosity, why is it so less cool to be one than say . . . an insensitive clod? :D

I'm pretty sure everyone is one or the other. My only point from the beginning is that we get more done, and everyone's better adjusted and able to cope in a tough world when when we are more free with our language, than less.

tourdeforce
12-17-2006, 10:01 AM
You didn't put enough information in your profile for us to pick on your personal weakness; but if you had, I'm sure we could have ganged up on you and shown you the error of your thinking.



There is a lesson there somewhere.

Tiger
12-17-2006, 10:13 AM
My pleasure. Mamby-pamby tightass. Check. Just out of curiosity, why is it so less cool to be one than say . . . an insensitive clod? :D

More words? And it does sing

Tiger
12-17-2006, 10:17 AM
I think singers should shut up and sing. I think actors should shut up and act. I think writers should shut up and write.

I think politicians should shut up and go home.

I am writing. I haven't spoken a word to any of yous!

tourdeforce
12-17-2006, 10:25 AM
But I'm here to be the one who says, "I'm fat. You're insulting me." Just like others would be here, if the subject were offensive to gays, to say, "I'm gay. You're insulting me." Or I'm black, Indian, Oklahoman, Japanese, Puerto Rican, a midget, legless or schitzophrenic, ad infinitum.


So would it have been inappropriate to ask-

Is Maines the gay one?

Is Maines the black one?

Is Maines the Indian one?

Is Maines the Oklahoman?

Is Maines the Japanese one?

Is Maines the Puerto Rican one?

Is Maines the miget?

Is the Maines the legless one?

Tiger
12-17-2006, 10:51 AM
So would it have been inappropriate to ask-

Is Maines the gay one?

Is Maines the black one?

Is Maines the Indian one?

Is Maines the Oklahoman?

Is Maines the Japanese one?

Is Maines the Puerto Rican one?

Is Maines the miget?

Is the Maines the legless one?

As soon as I saw the argument that followed your use of... uh, the C-word, I thought of Charlie's Angels. I mean, how would I refer to the Lucy Liu character? I cannot see myself stumbling around for ten minutes looking for a word other than "Asian."

The resulting performance wouldn't net me any points, even in the UK.

dclary
12-17-2006, 11:07 AM
As soon as I saw the argument that followed your use of... uh, the C-word, I thought of Charlie's Angels. I mean, how would I refer to the Lucy Liu character? I cannot see myself stumbling around for ten minutes looking for a word other than "Asian."

The resulting performance wouldn't net me any points, even in the UK.

Is she the one who isn't the woman of my dreams or Cameron Diaz?

Tiger
12-17-2006, 11:49 AM
Is she the one who isn't the woman of my dreams or Cameron Diaz?

Could you be more specific? You mean the one who wasn't Drew Barrymore, right?

dclary
12-17-2006, 12:07 PM
Could you be more specific? You mean the one who wasn't Drew Barrymore, right?

Right. Because Drew's all mine. Mine. Mine.

I've lusted after her since E.T.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 05:21 PM
So would it have been inappropriate to ask-

Is Maines the gay one?

Is Maines the black one?

Is Maines the Indian one?

Is Maines the Oklahoman?

Is Maines the Japanese one?

Is Maines the Puerto Rican one?

Is Maines the miget?

Is the Maines the legless one?

Only if you'd used the terms generally considered as insults for those groups and a member of the group had come back at you with, "I'm insulted because I'm [fill in the blank].". As in, "Is Maines the queer?" which would ellicit the, "I'm gay and you've insulted me."

But I think you knew that.

tourdeforce
12-17-2006, 05:26 PM
Only if you'd used the terms generally considered as insults for those groups and a member of the group had come back at you with, "I'm insulted because I'm [fill in the blank].". As in, "Is Maines the queer?" which would ellicit the, "I'm gay and you've insulted me."



I used the term chubby. You used the word fat.

Which is more insulting?

After all this, is there any word describing weight that you would not consider an insult?

I think the objections to this are over the edge at this point.

GPatten
12-17-2006, 09:46 PM
Dixie Chicks?
Iíd kick em all out of bed, out a my house, and out a town; maybe send em to Canada and Iíd tell em to shut up at every point.

When they came to sing, I liked them. When they came to declare politics, I quit listening.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-17-2006, 09:58 PM
I used the term chubby. You used the word fat.

Which is more insulting?

After all this, is there any word describing weight that you would not consider an insult?

I think the objections to this are over the edge at this point.

How 'bout we just agree to disagree? I don't mind being over the edge at all. And next time, we'll post a picture so you don't have to insult anyone. How's that?

greglondon
12-17-2006, 10:39 PM
When they came to declare politics, I quit listening.

I'm sorry, did you say something?

maestrowork
12-17-2006, 10:50 PM
When they came to sing, I liked them. When they came to declare politics, I quit listening.

Maybe ONLY because their political views are different than yours. What if they are saying how much they love GWB and the Iraq War? Would you still quit listening? I find this kind of reasoning very alarming: shut up and sing only if your political view is different than mine and unpopular. Many singers are political: Bono, Elton John, John Lennon, etc.

Of course, as Americans, we have the right to not listening; and you're right to say "I don't want to listen to them because..." But I find the whole idea that "singers should just sing, writers should just write, actors should just act, dancers should just dance, pianist should just play the piano..." disturbing. If that's the case, we should simply disband TIO now because none of us should be "declaring" politics. What do writers know, right?

I do admit that there's a time and a place for everything and what the Dixie Chicks did in the UK can be construed as uncouth. But I was actually more appalled by the hateful reactions and death threats in the guise of national pride and patriotism. To me, that was totally un-American.

Little Red Barn
12-17-2006, 11:04 PM
Maybe ONLY because their political views are different than yours. What if they are saying how much they love GWB and the Iraq War? Would you still quit listening? I find this kind of reasoning very alarming: shut up and sing only if your political view is different than mine and unpopular. Many singers are political: Bono, Elton John, John Lennon, etc.

Of course, as Americans, we have the right to not listening; and you're right to say "I don't want to listen to them because..." But I find the whole idea that "singers should just sing, writers should just write, actors should just act, dancers should just dance, pianist should just play the piano..." disturbing. If that's the case, we should simply disband TIO now because none of us should be "declaring" politics. What do writers know, right?

I do admit that there's a time and a place for everything and what the Dixie Chicks did in the UK can be construed as uncouth. But I was actually more appalled by the hateful reactions and death threats in the guise of national pride and patriotism. To me, that was totally un-American.

I feel its demeaning to tell anyone to just shut up and do. No one would like this type of statement. To me it's like Im not capable of doing anything, say but writing.
Appalled and quite scary about the death threats..surely there is a better way to express oneself...but alas I guess it brings out the kooks.
What did that teach my teen? The good ol' American way?

GPatten
12-17-2006, 11:19 PM
Maestrowork,
Sorry bout that, Guy.

Weíre a generation and more apart from each other. Thatís the difference between you and I.

You wouldnít be saying I have no rights to be as I am either, Iím another Archie Bunker.

You probably have sixty, or seventy more years to live; I doubt if I live to see the next action taken upon our soil by the bad guys.

AS to the Chicks, people paid to hear them sing. They didnít pay to listen to the Whopperís teeny boppers opinion...and I ainít either.

greglondon
12-17-2006, 11:48 PM
You wouldnít be saying I have no rights to be as I am either, Iím another Archie Bunker. .

You have every right to express a completely wrong opinion. People have every right to express their disagreement with you.


I doubt if I live to see the next action taken upon our soil by the bad guys.

What's that got to do with anything other than to invoke nameless faceless enemies?


AS to the Chicks, people paid to hear them sing. They didnít pay to listen to the Whopperís teeny boppers opinion...and I ainít either.

Oh hogwash. If they had sung some country song about kicking some towel head's ass and good ol' USA being tough and strong and "#1", you wouldn't have any problem with teeny boppers listening to their opinion. It ain't the fact that they made some comment in between songs about their political opinion that you don't like.

You just don't like their opinion, and are willing to invoke whatever reasoning to explain why they should stop saying it.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 12:09 AM
Maybe ONLY because their political views are different than yours. What if they are saying how much they love GWB and the Iraq War? Would you still quit listening? I find this kind of reasoning very alarming: shut up and sing only if your political view is different than mine and unpopular. Many singers are political: Bono, Elton John, John Lennon, etc.

I don't know about the rest, but, I'd answer yes to that one. I think a lot of folks agree with what they (she) said but are still irritated.


Of course, as Americans, we have the right to not listening; and you're right to say "I don't want to listen to them because..."

People also have the right to express their own views and interpretations. For a lot of us, that is part of what we do for a living. Not all writers write fiction and poetry.


But I find the whole idea that "singers should just sing, writers should just write, actors should just act, dancers should just dance, pianist should just play the piano..." disturbing. If that's the case, we should simply disband TIO now because none of us should be "declaring" politics. What do writers know, right?

I do admit that there's a time and a place for everything and what the Dixie Chicks did in the UK can be construed as uncouth.

Okay, up to a point.

Entertainers' whole criterion for succes is based on popularity; whether or not people like them. When people like their product, they cheer, form fan clubs, write love letters, go to their concerts, and otherwise go crazy with adoration when there is news of them.

Hey, conservation of energy and all that: when the DCs dropped somethng unpopular in an entertainment venue, the public took all of that stored up energy and redirected it. Now they are simply receiving the obverse of public adoration under the milieu in which they do business.


But I was actually more appalled by the hateful reactions and death threats in the guise of national pride and patriotism. To me, that was totally un-American.

Well, if they're going to push political agendas to an international audience, they shouldn't be surprised if they are treated as politicians. GWB et. al. receives "hateful reactions and death threats" all the time. Is that any more un-American?

I'm sure dubya's just chuckling and saying, "welcome to my world."

Regards

billythrilly7th
12-18-2006, 12:47 AM
I don't have a problem with entertainers expressing their opinions.

I rarely pay attention because they rarely have anything of substance to say, but by all means, say your piece.

Some are eloquent. Some just embarress themselves.

"If you think that rape should be legal, then don't vote."
Cameron Diaz 2004

Thank you.

dclary
12-18-2006, 12:55 AM
Only if you'd used the terms generally considered as insults for those groups and a member of the group had come back at you with, "I'm insulted because I'm [fill in the blank].". As in, "Is Maines the queer?" which would ellicit the, "I'm gay and you've insulted me."

But I think you knew that.

How is "chubby" an insulting term for a fat person, then?

dclary
12-18-2006, 12:55 AM
Psycho. And she was so little then. Sicko.

Take that back, Clary.

I was little too, dude.

MacAllister
12-18-2006, 01:05 AM
Wait, wait...I'm still trying to catch up.

Did Deek really call me a chubby, queer ball-breaker, or did I just dream that?



And was he smiling when he said it?

:D

billythrilly7th
12-18-2006, 01:09 AM
"welcome to my world."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rAndYMpFd7w

Enjoy.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 01:39 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rAndYMpFd7w

Enjoy.

ahthankyuh

dclary
12-18-2006, 01:47 AM
Wait, wait...I'm still trying to catch up.

Did Deek really call me a chubby, queer ball-breaker, or did I just dream that?



And was he smiling when he said it?

:D

Nothing to see here. Move along.

These are not the droids you're looking for...

<gulp!>

Tiger
12-18-2006, 02:04 AM
Wait, wait...I'm still trying to catch up.

Did Deek really call me a chubby, queer ball-breaker, or did I just dream that?



And was he smiling when he said it?

:D

SEIZE HIM!!!

There, I finally got to say it. :D

Jean Marie
12-18-2006, 04:23 AM
As much as I don't like the Chicks' politics, Jean, I think it's fair to say that at the point in U2s career that the Chicks find themselves, Bono's political activism was no more than theirs is. Just a mouth on a stage.
I disagree with that, clary. Bono is far from being a mouth on a stage. He's quite the philathranopist as well as activist. He backs up what he says with action. That's the difference between he and the Chicks.

Many celebs follow suit w/ the Chicks. Baldwin is a fine example as is Depp. Vitriol comes out both ends with no positive attributes. And both are insulting to the country as a whole. Freedom of speech is fine, but offer an alternative if you're dissatisfied.

Celia Cyanide
12-18-2006, 04:28 AM
Well, if they're going to push political agendas to an international audience, they shouldn't be surprised if they are treated as politicians.

Except that I attend concerts all the time where the artists make political statements because they feel like it, and they recieve nothing but thunderous applause. Why should the Dixie Chicks expect to be treated "as politicians," when other artists are not? I can think of several artists who have done similar things, and none of them have endured such a backlash.

tourdeforce
12-18-2006, 04:44 AM
Baldwin is a fine example as is Depp. Vitriol comes out both ends with no positive attributes. And both are insulting to the country as a whole. Freedom of speech is fine, but offer an alternative if you're dissatisfied.

Examples of Depp's and Baldwin's worthless vitriol please. What statements have made you so angry with them that you believe they are not qualified to talk other than sayin their lines?

(Since you beleieve that one should offer solutions with criticism, I assume that you also believe examples should be offered with accusations).

Tiger
12-18-2006, 04:57 AM
Except that I attend concerts all the time where the artists make political statements because they feel like it, and they recieve nothing but thunderous applause. Why should the Dixie Chicks expect to be treated "as politicians," when other artists are not? I can think of several artists who have done similar things, and none of them have endured such a backlash.

The Dixie Chicks did receive thunderous applause. It just didn't last. :) Perhaps your other artists just didn't say a wrong enough thing, at the wrong enough place and time.

I'm sorry, but I don't get what your point is. Are you saying that all artists need to be treated in the same way? Or, are you saying that there's something wrong with public opinion?

robeiae
12-18-2006, 05:01 AM
Examples of Depp's and Baldwin's worthless vitriol please. What tatements have made you so angry with them that you believe they are not qualified to talk other than sayin their lines?

(Since you beleieve that one should offer solutions with criticism, I assume that you also believe examples should be offered with accusations).
Cheney is a terrorist. He terrorizes our enemies abroad and innocent citizens here at home indiscriminately. Who ever thought Harry Whittington would be the answer to America's prayers. Finally, someone who might get that lying, thieving Cheney into a courtroom to answer some direct questions.--Alec Baldwin, after Cheney's hunting accident

I like his movies.

tourdeforce
12-18-2006, 05:08 AM
Unfortunately for Baldwin, Cheney has not authorized / allowed illegal torture, abductions or secret prisons and has been completely open with Congress and willing to testify on these matters.

robeiae
12-18-2006, 05:10 AM
Unfortunately for Baldwin, Cheney has not authorized / allowed illegal torture, abductions or secret prisons and has been completely open with Congress and willing to testify on these matters.But that's not what Baldwin said. Too bad for you.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 05:11 AM
"To me, the Republican Party is the real great tragedy of the last 25 years because there are lot of good and decent people and a lot of good political points [that have] come from the Republican Party in the post-war period, but it has been hijacked by these fundamentalist wackos," -Alec Baldwin at a DNC sponsored event 2004

billythrilly7th
12-18-2006, 06:06 AM
He's great in "30 Rock" as well.

IMO Baldwin is a self hating Republican.

tourdeforce
12-18-2006, 06:09 AM
But that's not what Baldwin said. Too bad for you.

Too bad for me how?

Were you not able to discern any connection between your Baldwin quote and my statement?

Really?

tourdeforce
12-18-2006, 06:10 AM
"To me, the Republican Party is the real great tragedy of the last 25 years because there are lot of good and decent people and a lot of good political points [that have] come from the Republican Party in the post-war period, but it has been hijacked by these fundamentalist wackos," -Alec Baldwin at a DNC sponsored event 2004


Sounds like a pretty fair and balanced statement.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 06:23 AM
Sounds like a pretty fair and balanced statement.

"fundamentalist wackos" sounds fair and balanced to you?

tourdeforce
12-18-2006, 06:28 AM
"fundamentalist wackos" sounds fair and balanced to you?


In the context of the original statement, yes, it is fair and balanced.

Read your own quote again.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 06:29 AM
In the context of the original statement, yes, it is fair and balanced.

Read your own quote again.

I don't need to read it, I wrote it.

tourdeforce
12-18-2006, 06:35 AM
"To me, the Republican Party is the real great tragedy of the last 25 years because there are lot of good and decent people and a lot of good political points [that have] come from the Republican Party in the post-war period, but it has been hijacked by these fundamentalist wackos," -Alec Baldwin at a DNC sponsored event 2004


Baldwin acknowledges the good while pointing out the bad.

Sounds like a fair and balanced approach.

robeiae
12-18-2006, 06:44 AM
Too bad for me how?

Were you not able to discern any connection between your Baldwin quote and my statement?

Really?You asked for: Examples of Depp's and Baldwin's worthless vitriol please.

I gave you one bit. Can you not see why it fits? Or is it okay to stretch to make a point?

The problem is, you accept Baldwin's nonsense. So you'll never be happy here.

I think he's an @ss. So I expect little from him.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 06:47 AM
His aim is to blast the "fundamentalist wackos" of today by comparing them to the good people of the past. He was not giving a lecture on the history of the Republican Party.

tourdeforce
12-18-2006, 06:48 AM
You asked for: Examples of Depp's and Baldwin's worthless vitriol please.

I gave you one bit. Can you not see why it fits? Or is it okay to stretch to make a point?


Dude, your not following the discussion.

You are answering a question that was not asked.

The problem is not the fact that you offered a quote, it's that you can't see the connection between my statement about Cheney's actions and Baldwin's characterization of him.

robeiae
12-18-2006, 06:50 AM
How so? You asked. I gave you what you wanted.

robeiae
12-18-2006, 06:52 AM
The problem is not the fact that you offered a quote, it's that you can't see the connection between my statement about Cheney's actions and Baldwin's characterization of him.Oh I see. So defend this part:

Cheney is a terrorist. He terrorizes our enemies abroad and innocent citizens here at home indiscriminately.

Please.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 06:55 AM
Waitaminit... Did "unfortunately for Baldwin" mean that you accepted that line as worthless vitriol?

I can't really see what the two of you are arguing about.

robeiae
12-18-2006, 07:00 AM
Waitaminit... Did "unfortunately for Baldwin" mean that you accepted that line as worthless vitriol?He accepts it as valid and sound thinking.

Celia Cyanide
12-18-2006, 09:47 AM
I'm sorry, but I don't get what your point is. Are you saying that all artists need to be treated in the same way? Or, are you saying that there's something wrong with public opinion?

I am saying that I don't understand why the Dixie Chicks get all the flack. They haven't done anything that other artists haven't done. Your point seemed to be that they should expect such treatment if they push political agendas. I don't see how anyone would expect that when it doesn't usually happen to artists who push a political agenda at concerts.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 10:01 AM
I am saying that I don't understand why the Dixie Chicks get all the flack. They haven't done anything that other artists haven't done. Your point seemed to be that they should expect such treatment if they push political agendas. I don't see how anyone would expect that when it doesn't usually happen to artists who push a political agenda at concerts.

Okay. I don't think that people are targeting only them for any other reason. I think that anyone else who was a popular as they would be in the same soup given the same situation. Were these other artists of yours as well-known as the Dixie Chicks when they made their comments? Were they Americans in another country?

I cannot see that there is any other reason for people to pick on them specifically.

dclary
12-18-2006, 11:13 AM
I think all the Dixie Chicks, regardless of their weight issues, should be grateful they weren't not born in India. As bad as they think having a dumb president is, it could be much much worse for them.

Celia Cyanide
12-18-2006, 06:51 PM
Okay. I don't think that people are targeting only them for any other reason. I think that anyone else who was a popular as they would be in the same soup given the same situation. Were these other artists of yours as well-known as the Dixie Chicks when they made their comments? Were they Americans in another country?

I don't even remember the Dixie Chicks being all that well known when this happened. I certainly do know of artists as famous or more famous who have done similar things.


I think all the Dixie Chicks, regardless of their weight issues, should be grateful they weren't not born in India. As bad as they think having a dumb president is, it could be much much worse for them.

I'm sure they probably know that. It doesn't really mean they, or any of us, have to like the current president.

maestrowork
12-18-2006, 07:12 PM
I think all the Dixie Chicks, regardless of their weight issues, should be grateful they weren't not born in India. As bad as they think having a dumb president is, it could be much much worse for them.

With all due respect, the Dixie Chicks didn't say they didn't love this country. They didn't say they were "ashamed to be Americans." They didn't say they hated America and the American people. All they said was that they were "ashamed of the President." Last I checked, Americans are allowed to be ashamed of (and be discontent with) their elected officials; it's in our constitution. Plenty of people openly said they were "ashamed of" and hated Clinton. All was fine.

Are you saying that every American should LOVE every one of our presidents? That we can never voice our dissent? Or does it only apply to presidents whose last name is Bush?

It comes down to this: You can dislike them and stop buying their records. You can boycott their concerts. It's all part of the game. But to say "they shouldn't do this or that" or that "they should be shot and killed" (as some "Americans" did say) or they should move to Canada would be wrong. The way I see it, the Dixie Chicks were exercising their American rights, and no matter how much you disagree with them, they were doing the American thing (maybe not "patriotic"). Those who want to maim and kill them or send them away are doing the un-American thing.

maestrowork
12-18-2006, 07:22 PM
Cheney is a terrorist. He terrorizes our enemies abroad and innocent citizens here at home indiscriminately. Who ever thought Harry Whittington would be the answer to America's prayers. Finally, someone who might get that lying, thieving Cheney into a courtroom to answer some direct questions.--Alec Baldwin, after Cheney's hunting accident

I like his movies.

That, my friend, is the right attitude. We may dislike someone's politics or opinions, and we may openly voice your opinion against them, but we may also separate the person from his art. And the bottomline is, as an American, someone like Baldwin has the right to say what he wants. But as Americans, we also have the right to disagree with his views.

But none of that has anything to do with his work. I like his movies. And plenty of people went and see Mel Gibson's new movie.

I don't agree with Rob on a lot of things, but I see him as a friend. I disagree with some of my friends (in real life and on AW) on many, many things, but I still respect them as people and I respect the fact that they're allowed and welcome to say what they need to say. I will never say: "We should ban him because I disagree with his political view."

truelyana
12-18-2006, 07:23 PM
I have a Dixie Chicks Album around somewhere. Great singers

dclary
12-18-2006, 08:08 PM
I don't even remember the Dixie Chicks being all that well known when this happened. I certainly do know of artists as famous or more famous who have done similar things.



I'm sure they probably know that. It doesn't really mean they, or any of us, have to like the current president.

See, but they did more than insult the president with their comments, or don't you understand that? They insulted the entire state of Texas.

dclary
12-18-2006, 08:11 PM
"fundamentalist wackos" sounds fair and balanced to you?

By the way... why is there such hatred for "fundamentalism?"

Basketball teams that adhere to the fundamentals win championships.

Christians and muslims and other groups that stick to their religion's core roots are far more devout than the fringe liberal groups that give their religions bad names.

Fundamentalism means that you acknowledge that the system you're following works. It is not wacko to take something that works, and use it. Just because Baldwin hates the truth doesn't mean everyone who follows it is insane.

Little Red Barn
12-18-2006, 08:11 PM
See, but they did more than insult the president with their comments, or don't you understand that? They insulted the entire state of Texas.

I doubt that kid even thought of Texas when she made her statement.

tourdeforce
12-18-2006, 08:13 PM
They insulted the entire state of Texas.

How is that?

They are proud to be from Texas yet ashamed that the Worst President Ever is from there too.

Jean Marie
12-18-2006, 08:18 PM
Cheney is a terrorist. He terrorizes our enemies abroad and innocent citizens here at home indiscriminately. Who ever thought Harry Whittington would be the answer to America's prayers. Finally, someone who might get that lying, thieving Cheney into a courtroom to answer some direct questions.--Alec Baldwin, after Cheney's hunting accident

I like his movies.
And Depp said:


Wed September 3, 2003 12:45 PM ET
BERLIN (Reuters) - Hollywood star Johnny Depp said on Wednesday the United States was a stupid, aggressive puppy and he would not live there until the political climate changed.
The 40-year-old actor, who stars in the "Pirates of the Caribbean," told the German news magazine Stern he was happier staying in the south of France with his wife, the French actress and singer Vanessa Paradis, and their two children.
"America is dumb, it's like a dumb puppy that has big teeth that can bite and hurt you, aggressive," he said.
"My daughter is four, my boy is one. I'd like them to see America as a toy, a broken toy. Investigate it a little, check it out, get this feeling and then get out," said the star of the off-beat films "Edward Scissorhands" and "Dead Man."

ETA: Tactless ass that Baldwin is, he slammed Jeanne Kirkpatrick the day she died, calling her a warmonger. He also questioned her femininity. By doing so, he showed a complete lack of class, which we already knew, toward her surviving family. He cares nothing for anyone aside from himself.

dclary
12-18-2006, 08:23 PM
I doubt that kid even thought of Texas when she made her statement.

That's why it's dangerous to run your mouth before engaging your brain.

Celia Cyanide
12-18-2006, 08:26 PM
See, but they did more than insult the president with their comments, or don't you understand that? They insulted the entire state of Texas.

No, she didn't. She said that she was embarassed the President was from Texas, where she herself was from. She was performing in England. Even though Tony Blair was supporting Bush, the war was much less popular there than it was here at the time.

You don't have to like what she said, but don't make it something it's not. She didn't insult the entire state of Texas.

JM, how many times does Johnny Depp have to apologize for that statement? It was 3 years ago.

maestrowork
12-18-2006, 08:27 PM
See, but they did more than insult the president with their comments, or don't you understand that? They insulted the entire state of Texas.

That is so not true. She said they were "ashamed that the President is from the state of Texas." No way do I see it as a slam against Texas (Nataline Maine is from Texas -- she wouldn't be slamming her own heritage). She didn't say "No wonder the president is a jerk; he's from Texas!" FWIW, I think she was saying she disliked the president and it was a shame that he came from Texas, because she loved Texas and expected a lot from the state.

I think your own bias is clouding your judgment.

Jean Marie
12-18-2006, 08:28 PM
That's why it's dangerous to run your mouth before engaging your brain.
Not so much, if the question of a brain exists. To be proven, one must be tested with an EEG to check for baseline of activity. Aside from that, one must consult the operators manual, on occasion, for directions. Or, at the very least, for trouble-shooting pointers.

dclary
12-18-2006, 08:30 PM
No, she didn't. She said that she was embarassed the President was from Texas, where she herself was from. She was performing in England. Even though Tony Blair was supporting Bush, the war was much less popular there than it was here at the time.

You don't have to like what she said, but don't make it something it's not. She didn't insult the entire state of Texas.

JM, how many times does Johnny Depp have to apologize for that statement? It was 3 years ago.

When she made those statements 3 years ago, who was George Bush, Celia? A popular 2-term governor of Texas. A former owner of a Texas baseball team. A texas oilman. The President of the United States, from Texas.

If you don't think she insulted Texas when she said that, then you don't understand Texans.

Celia Cyanide
12-18-2006, 08:37 PM
When she made those statements 3 years ago, who was George Bush, Celia? A popular 2-term governor of Texas. A former owner of a Texas baseball team. A texas oilman. The President of the United States, from Texas.

If you don't think she insulted Texas when she said that, then you don't understand Texans.

Obviously not all Texans feel the same way about such things.

Jean Marie
12-18-2006, 08:39 PM
JM, how many times does Johnny Depp have to apologize for that statement? It was 3 years ago.
I suppose when the attitude toward the USA, on the whole, changes. Actions always speak louder than words.

What I find fascinating, is that it we, the population at large, put these celebs in front of the mics. That's all well and good; what would we do without entertainment? Obviously, that's a rhetorical question. However, if you're going to get on your damned soapbox, with regularity, do so in a dignified manner. You (collectively speaking) are not a politician.

I'm weary of the non-stop negative diatribe. Please offer a solution or cease and desist. Whining is simple, a child can do it all day long. It's a broken record. Change the recording, show some intelligence...if they can...

Celia Cyanide
12-18-2006, 08:42 PM
But what has Johnny Depp done in the past three years that demonstrates a negative attitude toward America? He rarely talks about politics. In interviews, he usually talks about acting and films he loves. It's not a non-stop negative diatribe, it's a one off comment over which he has expressed regret.

Jean Marie
12-18-2006, 08:42 PM
:::BUZZER::: CELIA *Ahem*

More than 1 sentence per post

Jean Marie
12-18-2006, 08:49 PM
But what has Johnny Depp done in the past three years that demonstrates a negative attitude toward America? He rarely talks about politics. In interviews, he usually talks about acting and films he loves. It's not a non-stop negative diatribe, it's a one off comment over which he has expressed regret.
Sorry, Celia, you'd have to go back to my original post in which I named Depp and Baldwin. They're two of my least favorite political actors. I'm probably referencing Baldwin more than Depp. He's definitely more outspoken.

maestrowork
12-18-2006, 08:50 PM
When she made those statements 3 years ago, who was George Bush, Celia? A popular 2-term governor of Texas. A former owner of a Texas baseball team. A texas oilman. The President of the United States, from Texas.

If you don't think she insulted Texas when she said that, then you don't understand Texans.


Again, it's your bias that has clouded your judgment. In on way was Natalie Maine slamming Texas, no matter how you want to slice and dice it. She was dissing GWB, nothing more; everything else was tinted by personal biases.

maestrowork
12-18-2006, 08:51 PM
Sorry, Celia, you'd have to go back to my original post in which I named Depp and Baldwin. They're two of my least favorite political actors. I'm probably referencing Baldwin more than Depp. He's definitely more outspoken.

But Hunt of the Red October and Edward Scissorhands are two of my favorite movies.

I also like Arnold's movies. Mel Gibson's are good too -- yeah, even Passion of the Christ. I wouldn't stop watching Ron Silver even though I think he represents the opposite side of the coin.

Celia Cyanide
12-18-2006, 09:43 PM
Sorry, Celia, you'd have to go back to my original post in which I named Depp and Baldwin. They're two of my least favorite political actors. I'm probably referencing Baldwin more than Depp. He's definitely more outspoken.

I see your point about Baldwin, and how your statement applies. He never shuts up. As for Johnny Depp, I think he deserves more of a break. He made one really dumb comment, and then went back and apologized. He said he didn't mean it the way it sounded. And he hasn't said anything that stupid ever since then. IMO, it's safe to assume he was misquoted or making a joke that came out wrong. So what I'm saying is, I don't think Johnny Depp should be put in the same category with Alec Baldwin.

Tiger
12-18-2006, 10:12 PM
I certainly do know of artists as famous or more famous who have done similar things.

I'd say this explains why you've not seen this happen for the other artists.

Look, I'm not a performance artist (God knows), but I would assume that a large part of what motivates people like the Dixie Chicks on stage is directly involved in getting the public's attention. That's exactly what Natalie did. Mission accomplished.

Celia Cyanide
12-18-2006, 10:15 PM
I'd say this explains why you've not seen this happen for the other artists.

How does that explain it?