The worst Government in the world

blacbird · Dec 11, 2006

Until recently, it would have been North Korea. They've now been relegated to Number Two.

Sudan.

Darfur is becoming Rwanda, Chapter II. And could get worse. Quick now: What are we going to do about it?

caw

dclary · Dec 11, 2006

Nothing? Isn't that the official UN policy for African genocide?

blacbird · Dec 11, 2006

The UN is not equipped or designed to deal with problems on this scale. Which doesn't mean it's useless overall, but this ain't a problem the UN (or the African Union) can deal with. It will require some kind of ad hoc coalition of concerned nations with enough physical, moral and mental clout to affect the situation in a material way. I don't pretend to know what that coalition is, except to point out that we, the Amurricans, don't presently have the interest or strategic ability to deal with it in any meaningful manner.

And that is purely shameful.

caw

billythrilly7th · Dec 11, 2006

For the life of me I'll never understand how many liberals differentiate between Darfur and a....

..but I'm sure someone will come along and make an attempt at it that won't even remotely convince me.
:Shrug:

blacbird · Dec 11, 2006

You are correct, of course. And so did Idi Amin, and so did Pol Pot, and so did Chairman Mao, and so did Joe Stalin. And we don't stand entirely blameless in any of those instances, some less blameless (Pol Pot and Idi Amin) than others (Mao and Stalin), for geopolitical reasons of great complexity.

BUT, for starters, we DID NOT invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam Hussein because he killed his own countrymen. We only used that as a convenient secondary excuse when it became obvious that our initial stated reason was false and idiotic. We DID invade Iraq because our Governing Administration believed that it was geopolitically important, owing to a variety of factors, including in particular the amount of proved oil reserves the place possesses. Plus, the President's dad had been embarrassed in that place a dozen years before, and that just weren't right. Sudan ain't like that, so we don't give a rip. And because we're mired in Iraq now, we haven't got the resources to deal with Darfur anyway, and the Sudanese Gummint fully knows that (as do the Iranians and Syrians and North Koreans and all kinds of other bad players out there).

Thrillsy, why are you up so late? I live in a very far western time zone, so I have an excuse. Is it the effect of that Andre Cold Duck again?

caw

billythrilly7th · Dec 11, 2006

blacbird said:
Thrillsy, why are you up so late? I live in a very far western time zone, so I have an excuse. Is it the effect of that Andre Cold Duck again?

Sort of.

I went out tonight. Just winding the weekend down.

_______

If the UN or the entire planet as a whole had any balls or backbone, every single f'ing time someone or a group of people were killing their own people or engaging in genocide from Darfur to Saddam to Kim Jong Ill, we'd rise up and "no."

But we don't.

So, helpless people are slaughtered and starved year after year, decade after decade, while we have study commisions and debates and etc...and people say "Oh we shouldn't stop Saddam, but we should save Darfur..bla bla bla..."

Makes me sick.

Me.

I'm a simple man.

I don't care who is President or who controls congress.

You tell me that some dictator or militia group or anyone is killing people....as far as I'm concerned we're going in as long as it's a situation that doesn't put the earth into a nuclear winter.

I wish all of my liberal friends were on board.

But their hatred for Bush and all things Republican has made many of them lose all sense of right and wrong. Saddam Hussein should have been taken out years ago. Kim Jong Ill is still alive for god knows what reason. We should be in Darfur right now. Milosevic should have been taken out years before he was. God, I wish Superman was real and lord I miss the Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy democrat party.

I'd probably have been a democrat back in their day.

:Shrug:

Julie Worth · Dec 11, 2006

blacbird said:
Until recently, it would have been North Korea. They've now been relegated to Number Two.

Sudan.

I thought this was going to be an America bashing thread. Oh the disappointment!

robeiae · Dec 11, 2006

Julie Worth said:
I thought this was going to be an America bashing thread. Oh the disappointment!

Give it some time...

Jcomp · Dec 11, 2006

billythrilly7th said:
If the UN or the entire planet as a whole had any balls or backbone, every single f'ing time someone or a group of people were killing their own people or engaging in genocide from Darfur to Saddam to Kim Jong Ill, we'd rise up and "no."

Presuming, of course, that the UN or the entire planet is comprised mostly of good people who actually care about complete strangers that are suffering.

blacbird · Dec 11, 2006

robeiae said:
Give it some time...

Naaaah. The U.S. doesn't have anywhere near the worst, or even among the worst, governments in the world. Just one that too often disappoints, usually through not living up to its expressed ideals. But it has its ups and downs. Two years from now will definitely be on the upswing from the present.

caw

Sheryl Nantus · Dec 11, 2006

Bird of Prey said:
We're in Iraq now with the ongoing complaint that the Iraqis won't take control.

this is where I get totally confused.

I can understand that after decades of being under a dictatorship that the concept of democracy and elected governments may be a foreign concept that the Iraqi people need to be educated on and taught.

but as far as I can tell all they want to do is kill off each other in a religious purge of local neighborhoods. No intelligence, no foresight as to their future - all they want to do is kill.

WTH?

billythrilly7th · Dec 11, 2006

They're still living in the middle ages with tribes and sects and clerics and mullahs and complete ridiculousness.

We misjudged their desire to join us here in the modern world.

:Shrug:

Jcomp · Dec 11, 2006

billythrilly7th said:
They're still living in the middle ages with tribes and sects and clerics and mullahs and complete ridiculousness.

We misjudged their desire to join us here in the modern world.

"You know what the business community thinks of you? They think that a hundred years ago you were living in tents out here in the desert chopping each other's heads off and that's where you'll be in another hundred years, so on behalf of my firm I accept your offer." - Matt Damon from the film Syriana

TheGaffer · Dec 12, 2006

but as far as I can tell all they want to do is kill off each other in a religious purge of local neighborhoods. No intelligence, no foresight as to their future - all they want to do is kill.

It's competing self-interests. Your attitude is awfully patronizing, really. Yes, it's a f----ed situation there, for sure. But they're looking at it under the idea that they (being whatever side) are the ones fit to rule the country and seek as much power as possible. This is a centuries-old conflict, and somehow you expect them to lay down arms magically because of our good intentions. It's naivete at best.

blacbird · Dec 12, 2006

billythrilly7th said:
They're still living in the middle ages with tribes and sects and clerics and mullahs and complete ridiculousness.

We misjudged their desire to join us here in the modern world.

Absolutely correct, Thrillsy, except for one small item: We didn't misjudge their desire. The Bush White House did (still does, by the way), despite ample warnings from a lot of knowledgeable people that such a thing might be the case. I ain't buying no "hindsight" BS, the sort of thing Rumsfeld's been driven into saying.

caw

greglondon · Dec 12, 2006

I wish all of my liberal friends were on board.

But their hatred for Bush and all things Republican has made many of them lose all sense of right and wrong. Saddam Hussein should have been taken out years ago.

Billy, you have seen that picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand, right?
You realize that it wasn't CGI or anything. Rumsfeld and the Reagan
administration were all buddy-buddy with Saddam back during the iran/iraq
war. Well, if Rummy had slipped Saddam an exploding cigar back then,
this whole mess might have been avoided, now wouldn't it?

Sorry, you're team has to take a hit for that one.

dclary · Dec 12, 2006

It's not his fault. Our secret supply of exploding cigars had been severely compromised by The Bay of Pigs.

billythrilly7th · Dec 12, 2006

greglondon said:
Billy, you have seen that picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand, right?
You realize that it wasn't CGI or anything. Rumsfeld and the Reagan
administration were all buddy-buddy with Saddam back during the iran/iraq
war. Well, if Rummy had slipped Saddam an exploding cigar back then,
this whole mess might have been avoided, now wouldn't it?

Ad a little plutonium in his champagne would have been nice too.

Although, I'm sure Albright would have looked away for a moment, forgotten to verify that he drank it and it would have been turned into a warhead.

It's a dangerous world.

I believe it was Bob Dylan who once said "Your semi-friend unfortunate bedfellow now will later be your enemy for sure, but once they are, kill them, 'cause the Times they are a changin."

billythrilly7th · Mar 20, 2011

billythrilly7th said:
Sort of.

I went out tonight. Just winding the weekend down.

_______

If the UN or the entire planet as a whole had any balls or backbone, every single f'ing time someone or a group of people were killing their own people or engaging in genocide from Darfur to Saddam to Kim Jong Ill, we'd rise up and "no."

But we don't.

So, helpless people are slaughtered and starved year after year, decade after decade, while we have study commisions and debates and etc...and people say "Oh we shouldn't stop Saddam, but we should save Darfur..bla bla bla..."

Makes me sick.

Me.

I'm a simple man.

I don't care who is President or who controls congress.

You tell me that some dictator or militia group or anyone is killing people....as far as I'm concerned we're going in as long as it's a situation that doesn't put the earth into a nuclear winter.

I wish all of my liberal friends were on board.

But their hatred for Bush and all things Republican has made many of them lose all sense of right and wrong. Saddam Hussein should have been taken out years ago. Kim Jong Ill is still alive for god knows what reason. We should be in Darfur right now. Milosevic should have been taken out years before he was. God, I wish Superman was real and lord I miss the Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy democrat party.

I'd probably have been a democrat back in their day.

I'm happy to see we are doing something in Libya and that because Obama is President instead of Bush there aren't war protesters marching in the streets.

The older I get the more convinced I am that only a liberal President can lead our country to victory in a war.

Because there are no protests. The media seems to fine with it. And that leads the enemy to believe we are united and that leads to victory. Much better than what happened during Bush and the rough days in Iraq.

Bravo · Mar 20, 2011

billythrilly7th said:
The older I get the more convinced I am that only a liberal President can lead our country to victory in a war.

and that just shows how you never learned any of the lessons of the iraq war or the buildup to that war.

billythrilly7th · Mar 20, 2011

Bravo said:
and that just shows how you never learned any of the lessons of the iraq war or the buildup to that war.

Yes I did.

That's the point.

backslashbaby · Mar 20, 2011

greglondon said:
Billy, you have seen that picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand, right?
You realize that it wasn't CGI or anything. Rumsfeld and the Reagan
administration were all buddy-buddy with Saddam back during the iran/iraq
war. Well, if Rummy had slipped Saddam an exploding cigar back then,
this whole mess might have been avoided, now wouldn't it?

Sorry, you're team has to take a hit for that one.

We really do, absolutely.

But our models had Iran as the bigger problem back in the old days. If we could erase what we did in promoting Saddam, we'd have to erase the effect Iraq had on Iran.

It wouldn't be fair to act as if Iran would be today's Iran, and Iraq wouldn't have had such a strong Saddam. Who knows what Iran would be today?

I still think we need better intelligence, more experts, more allies there, more patience, etc, etc. I don't 'agree' with everything, by far. But it's more complicated than some people (in general) give gov'ts credit for.

SPMiller · Mar 20, 2011

We aren't united, though, in support for this military action in Libya. As usual, aside from it being a limited war, which I oppose on principle, oil's involved yet again. Compare the response to Libya's troubles to what's in the OP.

billythrilly7th · Mar 20, 2011

SPMiller said:
We aren't united, though, in support for this military action in Libya. As usual, aside from it being a limited war, which I oppose on principle, oil's involved yet again. Compare the response to Libya's troubles to what's in the OP.

Oil has nothing/VERY little to do with it. IMO.

Amazing that every time there is military action in the middle east people march out this stock, ridiculous concept.

And people let them get away with it.

Such a lazy analysis of a situation.

"there's military action in the middle east."

"no blood for oil!"

"what?"

Whatever.

Shadow Dragon · Mar 20, 2011

I would say that Somalia is the worst government since it completely collapsed.

The worst Government in the world

blacbird

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary

blacbird

billythrilly7th

blacbird

billythrilly7th

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

robeiae

Touch and go

Jcomp

blacbird

Sheryl Nantus

Holding out for a Superhero...

billythrilly7th

Jcomp

TheGaffer

Docking Bay 94

blacbird

greglondon

Planet Wookie techno geek

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary

billythrilly7th

billythrilly7th

Bravo

Socialitest

billythrilly7th

backslashbaby

*

SPMiller

Prodigiously Hanged

billythrilly7th

Shadow Dragon

The worst Government in the world

Unabashed Mercenary

What? I have a title?

Touch and go

Holding out for a Superhero...

Docking Bay 94

Planet Wookie techno geek

Unabashed Mercenary

Socialitest

~~~~*~~~~

Prodigiously Hanged

*