This is a reply to another post on another thread concerning Christians and sexual behaviors. Since it is so long, I put it on this new thread.
Jesus actually gave a standard so high and impossible- in that it goes against our nature. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus addressed our "thoughts" and not simply actions. Sin starts as a thought, and seeks to find expression in actions, but it is still sin even if never expressed in actions. The point of saying this was not to make us feel horrible, but so that we would realize part of our nature is hostile to God and his purposes. Unless Jesus said this, we would assume "hey...we all feel these feelings...they must be natural...then it's okay..."
Jesus said that the Spirit would convict us (convince us) of sin. In other words, we do not start out in life being convinced that certain things are wrong. They are so a part of our nature- natural to do- we don't have any feelings contrary to doing it- at least by the time we reach puberty. Telling lies is quite natural to us. Coveting is quite natural. Lust and anger are not hard to muster. They are hard to master.
The world at large may think that if it feels natural- do it, but this is not what is expressed from one end to the other of the Old Testament to the end of the New Testament.
Concerning "What did Jesus say about sexual behaviors". Well, some things were spelled out directly, but others were said in rather sweeping statements. Jesus specifically said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill the laws. And when he said this, he was clarifying that God didn't expect less from us, but more from us. Those who taught otherwise would be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
What Laws did Jesus fulfill - all laws pertaining to righteousness or right standing before God- this included the sacrificial laws- the final sacrifice...the atonement for sins. So Christians do not offer perpetual sin offerings. This does not mean no other Law was spared, and now anything goes.
"Thou shall not commit adultery" was not abolished by Christianity. As seen with Mary, the woman caught in adultery, Jesus offered mercy to her, but he did not speak against the Law. In a sense, he was saying, "Since all are convicted of breaking the Law, we need to be more merciful- wanting to see people restored instead of condemned." When he said, "Go and sin no more..." he added, "lest something far worse befall you..." Jesus implied that sin itself had a sting, and that wanton disregard for sinful behavior carried a penalty. Paul said in Galatians that whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap. That is Old Testament. Behaviors bring outcomes in this life, and some in the life to come.
Jesus clarified the interpretation of Laws and their purpose (to convict us of what was in our hearts)- but insofar as moral codes, Jesus did not lighten them, he made them harder to follow. It's far easier not to touch than it is to think about touching. It is far easier not to murder than it is not to hate or have contempt for others.
We tend to want to base rules of behavior according to the standards of what seem reasonable to us- not taking into account that our filters are broken- the way we see the world and justice. James implied that our natures are hostile to God. The Apostle John said the same thing, that the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life (the primary motivations of most human actions) rob us of love of God. If these are our primary motivations, then the love of God is not in us. Not "God's love for us", but if those are our primary motivations, we are not loving God.
We all have contrary desires. A part of us is forever rebellious towards God's purposes- but in choosing, we operate by a higher principle- Thy kingdom come and Thy will be done." God's will is often against our nature. Jesus said, "Unless you take up your own cross and deny yourself...you cannot be my disciple..." (Paraphrased) This meant, if you want to really follow Jesus and learn from him, you will be forced into situations of doing what you don't want to do (taking up your cross) and into situations where you don't do what you feel like doing (deny yourself). It isn't rocket science, but it's hard to actually do.
Nowhere in the New Testament are we told that "what is natural is good", rather we are told that our nature is at war with God. Jesus told the disciples, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak...pray therefore that you do not enter into temptation..."
In other words, we all have two sides. The important side of our nature is called the "will". This is that place in our hearts that prioritises what is most important to us. The spirit is WILLING- means that some of us really want to do what God wants us to do, when our hearts decide to put God's purpose above what our flesh wants to do. The flesh doesn't want to get up to pray, or go to prison to visit, or go to visit that person in the mental hospital. It wants to sleep in and eat cake all day, when we are not entertaining ourselves to death.
The flesh never stops wanting/desiring. Paul said in Galatians that the Spirit (God's Spirit in us) WARS against the FLESH. One part of all humans wants to do evil, always, as long as we are alive and breathing. This is natural, but only insofar as our nature is a fallen nature. Paul declared that sin was ALWAYS close at hand. He had to wrestle with that side. (See Romans chapter seven).
The difference between that wish to do God's will and carnal minds (which also exist in the church) that do not want to do God's will, is not the nature we share. Whether we want to do God's will or avoid it, it still exists.
What separates the two is only this, where our WILL lines up. Thy will or MY will? Do we want to please God and overcome desires to act foolishly or selfishly, whatever may be our inclinations? Or do we see life as a merry-go-round where winning is having all the metaphorical cake and pie we can grab? Jesus was more than a Savior (as we see him) he was also an example. The Bible said though he was God, he emptied himself, and not only became a human, but came in the form of a servant (slave) He surrendered his "will" to the Father's will. In Hebrews chapter 12 it implies that he had no joy in thoughts of going to the cross, and in fact despised the shame. But he did it for the sake of his Father- and the world (our belief)
Still, in Hebrews 12 it tells us that we have to make an act of the will to make straight paths, and that there is a sin that clings to us- meaning it is really easy for us to mess up and fall. But it also tells us that God chastens us- as children- for our good.
God's call is not easy. He aspires for us to return to "His Image and His Likeness", what we had in the beginning, but fell from as a species. This means our wills is not to give in to that nature that clings to us. (If we want to grow spiritually and emotionally).
Jesus actually gave a standard so high and impossible- in that it goes against our nature. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus addressed our "thoughts" and not simply actions. Sin starts as a thought, and seeks to find expression in actions, but it is still sin even if never expressed in actions. The point of saying this was not to make us feel horrible, but so that we would realize part of our nature is hostile to God and his purposes. Unless Jesus said this, we would assume "hey...we all feel these feelings...they must be natural...then it's okay..."
Jesus said that the Spirit would convict us (convince us) of sin. In other words, we do not start out in life being convinced that certain things are wrong. They are so a part of our nature- natural to do- we don't have any feelings contrary to doing it- at least by the time we reach puberty. Telling lies is quite natural to us. Coveting is quite natural. Lust and anger are not hard to muster. They are hard to master.
The world at large may think that if it feels natural- do it, but this is not what is expressed from one end to the other of the Old Testament to the end of the New Testament.
Concerning "What did Jesus say about sexual behaviors". Well, some things were spelled out directly, but others were said in rather sweeping statements. Jesus specifically said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill the laws. And when he said this, he was clarifying that God didn't expect less from us, but more from us. Those who taught otherwise would be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
What Laws did Jesus fulfill - all laws pertaining to righteousness or right standing before God- this included the sacrificial laws- the final sacrifice...the atonement for sins. So Christians do not offer perpetual sin offerings. This does not mean no other Law was spared, and now anything goes.
"Thou shall not commit adultery" was not abolished by Christianity. As seen with Mary, the woman caught in adultery, Jesus offered mercy to her, but he did not speak against the Law. In a sense, he was saying, "Since all are convicted of breaking the Law, we need to be more merciful- wanting to see people restored instead of condemned." When he said, "Go and sin no more..." he added, "lest something far worse befall you..." Jesus implied that sin itself had a sting, and that wanton disregard for sinful behavior carried a penalty. Paul said in Galatians that whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap. That is Old Testament. Behaviors bring outcomes in this life, and some in the life to come.
Jesus clarified the interpretation of Laws and their purpose (to convict us of what was in our hearts)- but insofar as moral codes, Jesus did not lighten them, he made them harder to follow. It's far easier not to touch than it is to think about touching. It is far easier not to murder than it is not to hate or have contempt for others.
We tend to want to base rules of behavior according to the standards of what seem reasonable to us- not taking into account that our filters are broken- the way we see the world and justice. James implied that our natures are hostile to God. The Apostle John said the same thing, that the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life (the primary motivations of most human actions) rob us of love of God. If these are our primary motivations, then the love of God is not in us. Not "God's love for us", but if those are our primary motivations, we are not loving God.
We all have contrary desires. A part of us is forever rebellious towards God's purposes- but in choosing, we operate by a higher principle- Thy kingdom come and Thy will be done." God's will is often against our nature. Jesus said, "Unless you take up your own cross and deny yourself...you cannot be my disciple..." (Paraphrased) This meant, if you want to really follow Jesus and learn from him, you will be forced into situations of doing what you don't want to do (taking up your cross) and into situations where you don't do what you feel like doing (deny yourself). It isn't rocket science, but it's hard to actually do.
Nowhere in the New Testament are we told that "what is natural is good", rather we are told that our nature is at war with God. Jesus told the disciples, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak...pray therefore that you do not enter into temptation..."
In other words, we all have two sides. The important side of our nature is called the "will". This is that place in our hearts that prioritises what is most important to us. The spirit is WILLING- means that some of us really want to do what God wants us to do, when our hearts decide to put God's purpose above what our flesh wants to do. The flesh doesn't want to get up to pray, or go to prison to visit, or go to visit that person in the mental hospital. It wants to sleep in and eat cake all day, when we are not entertaining ourselves to death.
The flesh never stops wanting/desiring. Paul said in Galatians that the Spirit (God's Spirit in us) WARS against the FLESH. One part of all humans wants to do evil, always, as long as we are alive and breathing. This is natural, but only insofar as our nature is a fallen nature. Paul declared that sin was ALWAYS close at hand. He had to wrestle with that side. (See Romans chapter seven).
The difference between that wish to do God's will and carnal minds (which also exist in the church) that do not want to do God's will, is not the nature we share. Whether we want to do God's will or avoid it, it still exists.
What separates the two is only this, where our WILL lines up. Thy will or MY will? Do we want to please God and overcome desires to act foolishly or selfishly, whatever may be our inclinations? Or do we see life as a merry-go-round where winning is having all the metaphorical cake and pie we can grab? Jesus was more than a Savior (as we see him) he was also an example. The Bible said though he was God, he emptied himself, and not only became a human, but came in the form of a servant (slave) He surrendered his "will" to the Father's will. In Hebrews chapter 12 it implies that he had no joy in thoughts of going to the cross, and in fact despised the shame. But he did it for the sake of his Father- and the world (our belief)
Still, in Hebrews 12 it tells us that we have to make an act of the will to make straight paths, and that there is a sin that clings to us- meaning it is really easy for us to mess up and fall. But it also tells us that God chastens us- as children- for our good.
God's call is not easy. He aspires for us to return to "His Image and His Likeness", what we had in the beginning, but fell from as a species. This means our wills is not to give in to that nature that clings to us. (If we want to grow spiritually and emotionally).
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), your reference to the work of the Spirit in any attempt to discern spiritual matters is spot on (1 Cor. 2:12ff) and to study is essential (2 Tim. 2:15). It's equally important to do it well, realize and respect our limitations, and approach the Scriptures with integrity (i.e., without our own agenda, seeking only God's). To do so points to the state of the heart, as you say. The ultimate translation is the Spirit, without whom none of the above is really even possible to any degree of efficacy.
