Seventh Dimension Films, www.seventhdimension.org , is proud to present its 2004-2005 Screenwriting Contest. All entries must be received by 11/30/04.
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Hamboogul
Wow, it's amazing how someone with no experience or credibility in this business can start a screenwriting competition.
JustinoIV
SimonSays
And it's apparently very lucrative for Mr. Coogan.
$50 bucks a pop to enter
A total of 5,000 in total prizes - that's 100 entrants. If he gets a thousand entrants that's $45,000 for Mr. Coogan.
And the lucky winner gets a development deal with a production company that doesn't appear to have any credits.
$50 bucks a pop to enter
A total of 5,000 in total prizes - that's 100 entrants. If he gets a thousand entrants that's $45,000 for Mr. Coogan.
And the lucky winner gets a development deal with a production company that doesn't appear to have any credits.
joecalabre
And don't forget the finalists who go into indentured servitude as staff writers...
I especially like the part which gives them permission to use for themselves any part, or whole of your script that is not copyrighted. Which can be quite a lot of your script, even if you do copyright it.
I especially like the part which gives them permission to use for themselves any part, or whole of your script that is not copyrighted. Which can be quite a lot of your script, even if you do copyright it.
SimonSays
Minimum Wage is far more than the Lucky winner of this contest gets.
Let's see
40 hours a week quote developing unquote
50 weeks (i assume even indentured servants get 2 weeks vacation)
2,000 hours
2,500 in compensation
That's a whopping buck twenty five an hour
Let's see
40 hours a week quote developing unquote
50 weeks (i assume even indentured servants get 2 weeks vacation)
2,000 hours
2,500 in compensation
That's a whopping buck twenty five an hour
JustinoIV
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
"I especially like the part which gives them permission to use for themselves any part, or whole of your script that is not copyrighted. Which can be quite a lot of your script, even if you do copyright it."
All scripts are still copyrighted, even if not registered. You are still protected by the copyright law.
This company will NEVER get a movie in the THEATER. They have a deal with what studios? None. And no cable station would deal with them either.
This is just a scam contest that is out to swindle money from writers.
"I especially like the part which gives them permission to use for themselves any part, or whole of your script that is not copyrighted. Which can be quite a lot of your script, even if you do copyright it."
All scripts are still copyrighted, even if not registered. You are still protected by the copyright law.
This company will NEVER get a movie in the THEATER. They have a deal with what studios? None. And no cable station would deal with them either.
This is just a scam contest that is out to swindle money from writers.
joecalabre
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
We went through all this already so, I won't go into it again about copyrights. Yes. It's a scam contest. NO arguement there.
The topic of discussion was that they are a scam, making money off our submittion fees. I wanted to add another suspect item from thier site.
If you look at the rules on thier website, there is a clause which states... "Seventh Dimension Films shall have the right, without any obligation to you, to use any portion of your material: (1) that is not protectable as a literary property under copyright law, (2) which a third party would be free to use if the material had not been submitted to it and been the subject of any agreement with it; or (3) which is in the public domain. "
I won't go into details, but as we all know, an idea is not copyrightable. This clause goes a little further and implies that they can take plot and character types from your script and develope it for themselves as long as it doesn't fall under the strict definition of US copyright law.
I was just making another point on how much of a scam they are. Not just for making money from a contest fee but also by getting a wealth of story ideas which they are free to use for themselves.
We went through all this already so, I won't go into it again about copyrights. Yes. It's a scam contest. NO arguement there.
The topic of discussion was that they are a scam, making money off our submittion fees. I wanted to add another suspect item from thier site.
If you look at the rules on thier website, there is a clause which states... "Seventh Dimension Films shall have the right, without any obligation to you, to use any portion of your material: (1) that is not protectable as a literary property under copyright law, (2) which a third party would be free to use if the material had not been submitted to it and been the subject of any agreement with it; or (3) which is in the public domain. "
I won't go into details, but as we all know, an idea is not copyrightable. This clause goes a little further and implies that they can take plot and character types from your script and develope it for themselves as long as it doesn't fall under the strict definition of US copyright law.
I was just making another point on how much of a scam they are. Not just for making money from a contest fee but also by getting a wealth of story ideas which they are free to use for themselves.
JustinoIV
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
"I was just making another point on how much of a scam they are. Not just for making money from a contest fee but also by getting a wealth of story ideas which they are free to use for themselves."
I had no intention of getting into the copyright discussion.
But my ultimate point was do you honestly think this sham operation has a studio deal? Do you honestly think that this company can get a movie in theatres, or on cable?
Most so called production companies FAIL. This one will be no different.
I see no evidence they even intend to make a movie. This is a quick money making scam. Nothing more.
"I was just making another point on how much of a scam they are. Not just for making money from a contest fee but also by getting a wealth of story ideas which they are free to use for themselves."
I had no intention of getting into the copyright discussion.
But my ultimate point was do you honestly think this sham operation has a studio deal? Do you honestly think that this company can get a movie in theatres, or on cable?
Most so called production companies FAIL. This one will be no different.
I see no evidence they even intend to make a movie. This is a quick money making scam. Nothing more.
JustinoIV
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
"Born and raised in Northern, New Jersey, Mr. Coogan holds a B.S. in Computer Science from West Point, and an MBA in Finance and Information Systems from the University of Texas at Austin. He has over 10 years of experience in the financial and information systems industries.
As an investor, Mr. Coogan has always been involved in the financial side of both the entertainment and arts industries, and decided in 2003 to make a career of it. Hence, the birth of Seventh Dimension Group."
An IT, guy, with no industry experience, credibility, or connections, all of a sudden decides he is a movie maker.
I've known this sort of movie makers. If they manage to film something, no one will ever see it because it is never distributed.
And I doubt there will be any legit directors or any other industry people who would deal with someone who had to try to do such a cheap, tawdry way of raising funds for a film.
"Born and raised in Northern, New Jersey, Mr. Coogan holds a B.S. in Computer Science from West Point, and an MBA in Finance and Information Systems from the University of Texas at Austin. He has over 10 years of experience in the financial and information systems industries.
As an investor, Mr. Coogan has always been involved in the financial side of both the entertainment and arts industries, and decided in 2003 to make a career of it. Hence, the birth of Seventh Dimension Group."
An IT, guy, with no industry experience, credibility, or connections, all of a sudden decides he is a movie maker.
I've known this sort of movie makers. If they manage to film something, no one will ever see it because it is never distributed.
And I doubt there will be any legit directors or any other industry people who would deal with someone who had to try to do such a cheap, tawdry way of raising funds for a film.
joecalabre
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
"... do you honestly think this sham operation has a studio deal? Do you honestly think that this company can get a movie in theatres, or on cable?"
Of course not. I don't believe I said anything to the contrary.
"... do you honestly think this sham operation has a studio deal? Do you honestly think that this company can get a movie in theatres, or on cable?"
Of course not. I don't believe I said anything to the contrary.
Seventh Dimension Films
joecalabre
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
It is not libel if we voice our concerns in an area reserved for members and in direct response to an announcment you made on such website.
Hey, I'm all for begging and borrowing and stealing to get my movie made, but let's call a spade a spade and your contest as a means for you to get funding...
Good luck with that.
It is not libel if we voice our concerns in an area reserved for members and in direct response to an announcment you made on such website.
Hey, I'm all for begging and borrowing and stealing to get my movie made, but let's call a spade a spade and your contest as a means for you to get funding...
Good luck with that.
JustinoIV
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
" defaming Seventh Dimension Films, a company with established industry contacts"
If you have such solid industry connections, why can't they invest in your project?
You wouldn't have this contest if you had legitimate studio or any other kind of industry backing.
" defaming Seventh Dimension Films, a company with established industry contacts"
If you have such solid industry connections, why can't they invest in your project?
You wouldn't have this contest if you had legitimate studio or any other kind of industry backing.
Writing Again
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
Many are skeptical who have not posted. Many who have not achieved mainstream status, such as myself, find ourselves not quite understanding the more technical issues, and not quite certain how to phrase our concerns.
The forums are available right here: also available 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. You have equal time and opportunity to give details, and to explain yourselves -- to everyone -- Especially those of us who are newbies to screen writing and who would possibly gain the most from a legitimate contest and who could conceivably be hurt the worst by a fringe element contest.
As I'm sure you can understand, those of us who are newbies and intelligent enough to appreciate our own ignorance are the most confused and can benefit the most by your clarifying these issues in language we can understand. Simple, non technical terms are appreciated.
Your contest would lead me to believe you are interested in helping non-mainstream writers, who one would assume were people who had not broken into Hollywood.
The developers of a contest with such noble aims surely would not balk at explaining all concerns away openly and in front of everyone in terms everyone can understand.
Thanking you in advance and eagerly awaiting your clarification of these issues.
For the skeptical few out there, We'll be more than happy to talk with each of you about our ability to bring film projects together.
Many are skeptical who have not posted. Many who have not achieved mainstream status, such as myself, find ourselves not quite understanding the more technical issues, and not quite certain how to phrase our concerns.
Please do your homework, make a phone call, ANYTHING before committing libel and defaming Seventh Dimension Films, a company with established industry contacts and good intentions. We are available 7 days a week to talk about our production company and its charter.
The forums are available right here: also available 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. You have equal time and opportunity to give details, and to explain yourselves -- to everyone -- Especially those of us who are newbies to screen writing and who would possibly gain the most from a legitimate contest and who could conceivably be hurt the worst by a fringe element contest.
As I'm sure you can understand, those of us who are newbies and intelligent enough to appreciate our own ignorance are the most confused and can benefit the most by your clarifying these issues in language we can understand. Simple, non technical terms are appreciated.
Your contest would lead me to believe you are interested in helping non-mainstream writers, who one would assume were people who had not broken into Hollywood.
Seventh Dimension Group was formed in response to an overwhelming need to bring out the voices of the many talented individuals -- writers, directors, actors, singers, dancers, musicians and artists -- who might not otherwise be heard in a suffocating world of mainstream values and beliefs.
The founders believe strongly that the world will benefit from their collective artistic vision and interpretation.
The developers of a contest with such noble aims surely would not balk at explaining all concerns away openly and in front of everyone in terms everyone can understand.
Thanking you in advance and eagerly awaiting your clarification of these issues.
SimonSays
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competiton
So if I understand you correctly, it sounds like you are essentially asking aspiring writers to FUND your development budget through the entry fees for your contest.
Shame on you!!!!
Most prod co's include the cost of acquiring material AS PART OF their development budget (i.e. they buy or option scripts)
Legal or not, in my opinion it is pretty darn scummy.
Go out and raise money like all the other prod cos. out there and PAY YOUR WRITERS!
Smile,
Simon:b
So if I understand you correctly, it sounds like you are essentially asking aspiring writers to FUND your development budget through the entry fees for your contest.
Shame on you!!!!
Most prod co's include the cost of acquiring material AS PART OF their development budget (i.e. they buy or option scripts)
Legal or not, in my opinion it is pretty darn scummy.
Go out and raise money like all the other prod cos. out there and PAY YOUR WRITERS!
Smile,
Simon:b
Seventh Dimension Films
JustinoIV
"It is the latter group that makes production companies like myself wary of simply opening our door to any writer to come in and pitch their idea. We've done that before, and found ourselves with piles upon piles of scripts (which never seem to get any smaller). This neither services our needs or the needs of the writer."
A legit prodco would simply say all submissions must be done by an agent, manager, or entertainment lawyer.
You're a scam artist, plain and simple. The problem that you'll get by posting on a forum like this is that there are many professional writers on this forum. On absolute write, you even have volunteers like Writer Beware that have busted sham operations targeting writers.
Money is supposed to flow to the writer.
"buys the serious, aspiring writer a legitimate (and we do mean 'legitimate') opportunity to have their film made. Our contacts our strong in the industry, and if you don't trust our word now, then simply wait a year, see what resulted from this competition, and then decide."
You can legimately go to www.scriptsales.com and find lists of real production companies and query them. You can also find legitimate managers, and agents on there as well.
You can also legitimate query the agents on www.wga.org. The writers guild website.
"Our contacts our strong in the industry, and if you don't trust our word now, then simply wait a year, see what resulted from this competition, and then decide."
Then who are these contacts? If you list their names, we can surely contact them. We can also look up any contacts credits by going to www.imdb.com
A legit prodco would simply say all submissions must be done by an agent, manager, or entertainment lawyer.
You're a scam artist, plain and simple. The problem that you'll get by posting on a forum like this is that there are many professional writers on this forum. On absolute write, you even have volunteers like Writer Beware that have busted sham operations targeting writers.
Money is supposed to flow to the writer.
"buys the serious, aspiring writer a legitimate (and we do mean 'legitimate') opportunity to have their film made. Our contacts our strong in the industry, and if you don't trust our word now, then simply wait a year, see what resulted from this competition, and then decide."
You can legimately go to www.scriptsales.com and find lists of real production companies and query them. You can also find legitimate managers, and agents on there as well.
You can also legitimate query the agents on www.wga.org. The writers guild website.
"Our contacts our strong in the industry, and if you don't trust our word now, then simply wait a year, see what resulted from this competition, and then decide."
Then who are these contacts? If you list their names, we can surely contact them. We can also look up any contacts credits by going to www.imdb.com
SimonSays
Any way you slice it, you are asking aspiring writers to finance your development slate.
Your claim that submitting through a contest will cut down on the bad writers is ludicrous. There are an awful lot of really bad writers out there who are very serious about pursuing a writing career. If you don't believe me check out some of the scripts on Zoetrope or triggerstreet. Serious writer does not equal good writer and since the bad writers have no clue that they are bad your $50 entry fee will not be a deterent.
I have no problem with Writing contests per se. But most, if not all of the prestegious ones are run by third parties such as Fade In magazine or Final Draft. They have no vested interest. Their goal is to give writers an entree into Hollywood. Your goal however is to fill your own development slate and charge writers for the privelege. And by the way, I cannot believe you had the unmitigated gall to actuall state in your last response that, and I quote: .. ."a nominal amount of money (which we realize is not easily sacrificed) buys the serious, aspiring writer a legitimate (and we do mean 'legitimate') opportunity to have their film made." A writer should not have to BUY that right. You as a producer looking for work should GIVE them that right and then PAY THEM FAIRLY for YOUR right to produce the script.
It is also interesting to me that a company that is "in the business of putting productions together, and getting them made and distributed." has not ONE credit listed on their site. In fact I googled Seventh Dimension and the ONLY things that came up were references to your "contest."
And if you have the resources in place for all aspects of production and distribution that you claim, it's hard to understand why you don't have the resources in place to find and option a script.
Why not just call for open submissions w/out a fee and option the scripts you want to develop? You and I both know it's not as time intensive as it might appear, because let's face it, your going to stop reading the really bad ones after the first 10 pages. And dude, let's face it, if you can't come up with a couple grand to option a few scripts, you ain't gonna come up with the millions you'll need to produce the thing.
I challenge you to cancel your contest and find a script the old fasioned way.
Your claim that submitting through a contest will cut down on the bad writers is ludicrous. There are an awful lot of really bad writers out there who are very serious about pursuing a writing career. If you don't believe me check out some of the scripts on Zoetrope or triggerstreet. Serious writer does not equal good writer and since the bad writers have no clue that they are bad your $50 entry fee will not be a deterent.
I have no problem with Writing contests per se. But most, if not all of the prestegious ones are run by third parties such as Fade In magazine or Final Draft. They have no vested interest. Their goal is to give writers an entree into Hollywood. Your goal however is to fill your own development slate and charge writers for the privelege. And by the way, I cannot believe you had the unmitigated gall to actuall state in your last response that, and I quote: .. ."a nominal amount of money (which we realize is not easily sacrificed) buys the serious, aspiring writer a legitimate (and we do mean 'legitimate') opportunity to have their film made." A writer should not have to BUY that right. You as a producer looking for work should GIVE them that right and then PAY THEM FAIRLY for YOUR right to produce the script.
It is also interesting to me that a company that is "in the business of putting productions together, and getting them made and distributed." has not ONE credit listed on their site. In fact I googled Seventh Dimension and the ONLY things that came up were references to your "contest."
And if you have the resources in place for all aspects of production and distribution that you claim, it's hard to understand why you don't have the resources in place to find and option a script.
Why not just call for open submissions w/out a fee and option the scripts you want to develop? You and I both know it's not as time intensive as it might appear, because let's face it, your going to stop reading the really bad ones after the first 10 pages. And dude, let's face it, if you can't come up with a couple grand to option a few scripts, you ain't gonna come up with the millions you'll need to produce the thing.
I challenge you to cancel your contest and find a script the old fasioned way.
joecalabre
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
The purpose of a screenplay competition is to recognize talent and introduce great writers with great scripts to the industry, NOT to...
Get a pool of screenplays, ideas and freelance "staff writers" all for future use and for cheap (or free).
The purpose of a screenplay competition is to recognize talent and introduce great writers with great scripts to the industry, NOT to...
Get a pool of screenplays, ideas and freelance "staff writers" all for future use and for cheap (or free).
Seventh Dimension Films
Seventh Dimension Films
JustinoIV
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
You, SeventhDimension Film, are incredibly naive if you think that a movie produced by someone without any credits has a snowball's chance in well of being bought by a studio.
The studios often purchase scripts out right, and they do have development deals with studio backed production company. Writers who want to go anywhere in Hollywood, need deals with studios or studio backed production companies.
So many independant movies are made and never seen by anyone. A lot will be lucky if only they can get to the festivals. And many are so bad they can't find a festival that will accept them. And by the way, even with film festivals, only being shown or winning at the major ones count. (Sundance, Cannes, Austin, New York, Slamdance, etc.)
You, SeventhDimension Film, are incredibly naive if you think that a movie produced by someone without any credits has a snowball's chance in well of being bought by a studio.
The studios often purchase scripts out right, and they do have development deals with studio backed production company. Writers who want to go anywhere in Hollywood, need deals with studios or studio backed production companies.
So many independant movies are made and never seen by anyone. A lot will be lucky if only they can get to the festivals. And many are so bad they can't find a festival that will accept them. And by the way, even with film festivals, only being shown or winning at the major ones count. (Sundance, Cannes, Austin, New York, Slamdance, etc.)
SimonSays
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
Actually, I am quite familiar with Independent Film, and I still say it is WRONG to find your material by charging writers for the opportunity to be considered. There is absolutely, positively NO excuse for doing so. And such a move goes totally against the spirit of the independent film community.
Secondly, many contests do more than hand out awards at dinners. They give you access to agents, producers etc. and they give you prestige, as some of the contests are well-respected in the industry, and being a winner or finalist can get you attention or impress producers and agents when you query or pitch them.
It appears that you are promising to put your resources towards Developing the script NOT guaranteeing production and distribution. So basically - your prize is a 1-year option deal with a company that has never produced anything. Pretty crappy prize, if you ask me.
It also appears that the entire compensation for the writer (other than the prize money) is back-end. Believe it or not, many independent producers actually PAY their writers upfront or at least pay them something upfront. Your claims that the writer will be rewarded over and over and over again from back end, residuals, etc. shows just how clueless you are about independent film. The vast, vast, vast, majority never get distribution of any kind and most of those that do get distribution don't make the kind of money a film would have to make in order for your writer to be compensated fairly.
The more you speak, the less you sound like you know.
Actually, I am quite familiar with Independent Film, and I still say it is WRONG to find your material by charging writers for the opportunity to be considered. There is absolutely, positively NO excuse for doing so. And such a move goes totally against the spirit of the independent film community.
Secondly, many contests do more than hand out awards at dinners. They give you access to agents, producers etc. and they give you prestige, as some of the contests are well-respected in the industry, and being a winner or finalist can get you attention or impress producers and agents when you query or pitch them.
It appears that you are promising to put your resources towards Developing the script NOT guaranteeing production and distribution. So basically - your prize is a 1-year option deal with a company that has never produced anything. Pretty crappy prize, if you ask me.
It also appears that the entire compensation for the writer (other than the prize money) is back-end. Believe it or not, many independent producers actually PAY their writers upfront or at least pay them something upfront. Your claims that the writer will be rewarded over and over and over again from back end, residuals, etc. shows just how clueless you are about independent film. The vast, vast, vast, majority never get distribution of any kind and most of those that do get distribution don't make the kind of money a film would have to make in order for your writer to be compensated fairly.
The more you speak, the less you sound like you know.
Writing Again
Re: Re:2004-2005 Screenwriting Competition
Why does this bother me?
I mean everybody makes spelling mistakes at some time, that is why spell check is so wonderful. Am I being unreasonable to expect a higher standard from someone who represents a production company?
Why does this bother me?
I find your posts at boards like this, where lots and lots of eager amateurs are gathered, but I do not find you over at Done Deal where the professionals are known to gather: The first place I would head with a legit proposal.
Why does this bother me?
Two posts that have been edited and are now "left blank"?
I'm sorry, Seventh Dimension, but you don't seem to be showing up very well here.
Why does this bother me?
Simon...we respect your cinicism
I mean everybody makes spelling mistakes at some time, that is why spell check is so wonderful. Am I being unreasonable to expect a higher standard from someone who represents a production company?
Why does this bother me?
I find your posts at boards like this, where lots and lots of eager amateurs are gathered, but I do not find you over at Done Deal where the professionals are known to gather: The first place I would head with a legit proposal.
Why does this bother me?
Two posts that have been edited and are now "left blank"?
I'm sorry, Seventh Dimension, but you don't seem to be showing up very well here.
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