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blacbird
11-18-2006, 08:02 AM
About time.

caw.

oswann
11-18-2006, 08:04 AM
Someone forgot to tell him the war is finished over there.


Os.

billythrilly7th
11-18-2006, 08:08 AM
Did Clinton get to visit during his Presidency?

Just wondering.

billythrilly7th
11-18-2006, 08:11 AM
Yep, it turns out he did. Right before it ended.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1025169.stm


Thursday, 16 November, 2000, 12:04 GMT
Clinton's Vietnam visit
President Bill Clinton is the first US head of state to visit Vietnam since the end of the war there 25 years ago.

His four-day visit, which starts later on Thursday, is also his last scheduled foreign trip as US president.

The war, which ended with the scrambled withdrawal of US forces in 1975, led to the deaths of more than 1.5 million Vietnamese and 58,000 Americans.

Under the Clinton administration, Washington's relations with Hanoi have been transformed.

Now, his officials say, he intends to further the process of reconciliation and look ahead to Vietnam's future.

"In our national memory Vietnam was a war," the president said at a Veteran's Day ceremony shortly before the visit. "But Vietnam is also a country."

But Mr Clinton's visit has angered some veterans' organisations in the US, and those who lost family members in the war.

Internet chat-rooms devoted to Vietnam issues are filled with messages from veterans and others who want to see the message of reconciliation carried by somebody other than a man who went to such great lengths to avoid being drafted to Vietnam.

The Vietnamese are also well aware that Mr Clinton avoided fighting in Vietnam.

"We welcome President Clinton because he was himself against the war," said Lieutenant General Khai Hung Nguyen.

I'm glad he made it over there eventually as well.

Bartholomew
11-18-2006, 08:15 AM
I respect Clinton for avoiding the war.

I hate Bush for it.

Because I lack all logical capacity.

Seriously; I think avoiding Vietnam was a sign of intellect, and at the very least, self preservation.

blacbird
11-18-2006, 08:26 AM
Clinton was at least forthright about avoiding the war. Bush . . .

caw.

Bartholomew
11-18-2006, 08:29 AM
Clinton was at least forthright about avoiding the war. Bush . . .

caw.

What, you're gonna factor honesty in?

C'mon, we're talking about politicians... :)

(Clinton > Bush)

billythrilly7th
11-18-2006, 08:31 AM
Clinton was at least forthright about avoiding the war. Bush . . ..

:ROFL:

Whatever helps you sleep at night, blacky.

Bush was at least flying planes and in some sort of military service while Clinton was growing a beard and not inhaling.

blacbird
11-18-2006, 08:37 AM
Bush was at least flying planes and in some sort of military service while Clinton was growing a beard and not inhaling.

Woo-hoo! Get to fly jets and stuff coke up the nose at frat parties that count toward National Guard service.

While this was happening, Thrills, I was trying to sleep in bunkers at firebases adjacent to the Cambodian border while Howitzers were sending outgoing into the dark woods outside the perimeter. Forgive me if I fail to be impressed.

caw

billythrilly7th
11-18-2006, 08:37 AM
Bush = http://www.npr.org/news/images/2005/jan/10/bush_guard200.jpg

Clinton = http://xs33.xs.to/pics/05245/Bill-Hillary-1970-New-Hav.jpg

'Nuff said.

SC Harrison
11-18-2006, 08:51 AM
Geez. I can't believe we're arguing about which Vietnam War dodger President was the least devious. We've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard there's a damn hole in the thing.

billythrilly7th
11-18-2006, 09:14 AM
Geez. I can't believe we're arguing about which Vietnam War dodger President was the least devious. We've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard there's a damn hole in the thing.

We've never been in more agreement.

But let this thread stand as a monument to hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle. Thank you, blacbird for this shining example.

Republican in 1992-2000: Clinton Dodged the Draft.
Democrat: So what?

Democrat in 2000-2006: Bush got out of going to Vietnam.
Republican: So what?


Woo-hoo! Get to fly jets and stuff coke up the nose at frat parties that count toward National Guard service.

While this was happening, Thrills, I was trying to sleep in bunkers at firebases adjacent to the Cambodian border while Howitzers were sending outgoing into the dark woods outside the perimeter. Forgive me if I fail to be impressed.


As long as you're less or equally unimpressed with Clinton, there's no reason to continue with this thread.

Oh...unless that "up front that he dodged the draft" thing is more impressive.

I don't know...





Lock thread!!

Goodnight AW!!!

blacbird
11-18-2006, 09:43 AM
At least we now know what "Mission Accomplished" really means.


caw

Jean Marie
11-18-2006, 07:10 PM
At least we now know what "Mission Accomplished" really means.


caw
stoopid comment, agreed. stoopid war (iraq) agreed. afghanistan--the right thing to do. agreed.

clinton--did some pretty stoopid stuff, too. agreed.

rummy, the worst choice in the world, agreed. should have been tossed long ago, agreed.

politicians basically stoopid, agreed.

TheGaffer
11-18-2006, 08:00 PM
Here's what I get.

Bush = avoided Vietnam
Clinton = avoided Vietnam

Bush = Clinton.

Good.

Here's what I don't get.

Bush = avoided Vietnam
Kerry = fought in Vietnam

Bush = some kind of patriot.
Kerry = some kind of traitor.

Bush > Kerry

?

greglondon
11-18-2006, 08:48 PM
Bush = avoided Vietnam
Kerry = fought in Vietnam

Bush = some kind of patriot.
Kerry = some kind of traitor.

Gaffer, it's the simple application of math and dogma. See, if you do not operate in a reality based world, then it is no big deal to ignore the fact that every member of John Kerry's boat crew says Kerry saved their lives during the battle for which he received one of his medals, and instead replace it with the Swift Boat Veterens for Half Truths who got people who had been in Kerry's same fleet, but served on different boats or served during different time frames who say "I never saw John Kerry do anything heroic". Well, yeah, but you weren't in vietnam the same years Kerry was. Or you served on a different boat in another part of the country. And if your dogma is that you can't question a war, then the math gives convenient excuse to say Kerry is a traitor.

Bartholomew
11-18-2006, 09:31 PM
Lock thread!!


Yes please.

eldragon
11-18-2006, 09:38 PM
OMG.



What year is this?

"Swift Boat Veterans?"

dclary
11-18-2006, 10:49 PM
OMG.



What year is this?

"Swift Boat Veterans?"

You should go see Greg's 500-post thread on "Ohio was stolen, 2004" that he posted... last month.

greglondon
11-18-2006, 10:56 PM
You should go see Greg's 500-post thread on "Ohio was stolen, 2004" that he posted... last month.

Right, because the article

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

was published in Rolling Stone magazine in June 2006,

and that was, like, months ago.

dclary
11-18-2006, 11:12 PM
Here's what I don't get.

Bush = avoided Vietnam
Kerry = fought in Vietnam

Bush = some kind of patriot.
Kerry = some kind of traitor.

Bush > Kerry

?

Gaff, I have to think that the vast majority of folks who consider Kerry a traitor do so because of his words and actions after his military service, not during. Other than Hanoi Jane, no single American campaigned harder for vietnamese supremacy over american than Kerry did.

I mean.. Kerry's the only American listed as a war hero in Vietnam.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040604194804799

dclary
11-18-2006, 11:12 PM
Right, because the article

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

was published in Rolling Stone magazine in June 2006,

and that was, like, months ago.

Whatever gets you through the night, kemosabe.

TheGaffer
11-19-2006, 12:13 AM
Gaff, I have to think that the vast majority of folks who consider Kerry a traitor do so because of his words and actions after his military service, not during.

That's mostly a fair argument.

But that's not the intellectual argument that was made in 2004, which was that Kerry was some kind of war criminal or simply an out-and-out liar, and how dare you suggest George Bush didn't complete his service honorably.

eldragon
11-19-2006, 01:12 AM
:e2zzz: :e2stooges

dclary
11-19-2006, 04:33 AM
That's mostly a fair argument.

But that's not the intellectual argument that was made in 2004, which was that Kerry was some kind of war criminal or simply an out-and-out liar, and how dare you suggest George Bush didn't complete his service honorably.

I've kinda given up on the whole "intellectual argument" when it comes to american politics.

TheGaffer
11-19-2006, 08:22 PM
Smart. I should do likewise.

William Haskins
11-19-2006, 08:38 PM
But that's not the intellectual argument that was made in 2004, which was that Kerry was some kind of war criminal...

kerry made the argument that he was a war criminal himself, did he not?

Bravo
11-19-2006, 08:56 PM
he made the argument for it before he made it against it.

William Haskins
11-19-2006, 08:57 PM
damn you, qaz...

Bravo
11-19-2006, 08:58 PM
i think he was trying to make a joke but he forgot some key words.

William Haskins
11-19-2006, 09:01 PM
let's go to the tape, shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m73gtFgf7zs

Bravo
11-19-2006, 09:03 PM
sigh.

you used to get when i was messing w you.

:)

robeiae
11-19-2006, 09:04 PM
let's go to the tape, shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m73gtFgf7zs
It's cathartic, in a way...like watching Oprah admit to having hair transplants.

William Haskins
11-19-2006, 09:05 PM
sigh.

you used to get when i was messing w you.

:)

don't sigh, my chickadee. that was for the others. we know where we stand. the "damn you" above was for beating me to the very same joke. of course, with kerry, it's like playing t-ball with a pumpkin.

Bravo
11-19-2006, 09:07 PM
lol.

good to hear.