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Thursday, 16 November, 2000, 12:04 GMT
Clinton's Vietnam visit
President Bill Clinton is the first US head of state to visit Vietnam since the end of the war there 25 years ago.
His four-day visit, which starts later on Thursday, is also his last scheduled foreign trip as US president.
The war, which ended with the scrambled withdrawal of US forces in 1975, led to the deaths of more than 1.5 million Vietnamese and 58,000 Americans.
Under the Clinton administration, Washington's relations with Hanoi have been transformed.
Now, his officials say, he intends to further the process of reconciliation and look ahead to Vietnam's future.
"In our national memory Vietnam was a war," the president said at a Veteran's Day ceremony shortly before the visit. "But Vietnam is also a country."
But Mr Clinton's visit has angered some veterans' organisations in the US, and those who lost family members in the war.
Internet chat-rooms devoted to Vietnam issues are filled with messages from veterans and others who want to see the message of reconciliation carried by somebody other than a man who went to such great lengths to avoid being drafted to Vietnam.
The Vietnamese are also well aware that Mr Clinton avoided fighting in Vietnam.
"We welcome President Clinton because he was himself against the war," said Lieutenant General Khai Hung Nguyen.
blacbird said:Clinton was at least forthright about avoiding the war. Bush . . .
caw.
blacbird said:Clinton was at least forthright about avoiding the war. Bush . . ..
billythrilly7th said:Bush was at least flying planes and in some sort of military service while Clinton was growing a beard and not inhaling.
SC Harrison said:Geez. I can't believe we're arguing about which Vietnam War dodger President was the least devious. We've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard there's a damn hole in the thing.
Woo-hoo! Get to fly jets and stuff coke up the nose at frat parties that count toward National Guard service.
While this was happening, Thrills, I was trying to sleep in bunkers at firebases adjacent to the Cambodian border while Howitzers were sending outgoing into the dark woods outside the perimeter. Forgive me if I fail to be impressed.
stoopid comment, agreed. stoopid war (iraq) agreed. afghanistan--the right thing to do. agreed.blacbird said:At least we now know what "Mission Accomplished" really means.
caw
TheGaffer said:Bush = avoided Vietnam
Kerry = fought in Vietnam
Bush = some kind of patriot.
Kerry = some kind of traitor.
eldragon said:OMG.
What year is this?
"Swift Boat Veterans?"
dclary said:You should go see Greg's 500-post thread on "Ohio was stolen, 2004" that he posted... last month.
TheGaffer said:Here's what I don't get.
Bush = avoided Vietnam
Kerry = fought in Vietnam
Bush = some kind of patriot.
Kerry = some kind of traitor.
Bush > Kerry
?
greglondon said:Right, because the article
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen
was published in Rolling Stone magazine in June 2006,
and that was, like, months ago.
Gaff, I have to think that the vast majority of folks who consider Kerry a traitor do so because of his words and actions after his military service, not during.
TheGaffer said:That's mostly a fair argument.
But that's not the intellectual argument that was made in 2004, which was that Kerry was some kind of war criminal or simply an out-and-out liar, and how dare you suggest George Bush didn't complete his service honorably.