George W. Bush goes to Vietnam

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Yep, it turns out he did. Right before it ended.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1025169.stm

Thursday, 16 November, 2000, 12:04 GMT
Clinton's Vietnam visit
President Bill Clinton is the first US head of state to visit Vietnam since the end of the war there 25 years ago.

His four-day visit, which starts later on Thursday, is also his last scheduled foreign trip as US president.

The war, which ended with the scrambled withdrawal of US forces in 1975, led to the deaths of more than 1.5 million Vietnamese and 58,000 Americans.

Under the Clinton administration, Washington's relations with Hanoi have been transformed.

Now, his officials say, he intends to further the process of reconciliation and look ahead to Vietnam's future.

"In our national memory Vietnam was a war," the president said at a Veteran's Day ceremony shortly before the visit. "But Vietnam is also a country."

But Mr Clinton's visit has angered some veterans' organisations in the US, and those who lost family members in the war.

Internet chat-rooms devoted to Vietnam issues are filled with messages from veterans and others who want to see the message of reconciliation carried by somebody other than a man who went to such great lengths to avoid being drafted to Vietnam.

The Vietnamese are also well aware that Mr Clinton avoided fighting in Vietnam.

"We welcome President Clinton because he was himself against the war," said Lieutenant General Khai Hung Nguyen.

I'm glad he made it over there eventually as well.
 

Bartholomew

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I respect Clinton for avoiding the war.

I hate Bush for it.

Because I lack all logical capacity.

Seriously; I think avoiding Vietnam was a sign of intellect, and at the very least, self preservation.
 

Bartholomew

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blacbird said:
Clinton was at least forthright about avoiding the war. Bush . . .

caw.

What, you're gonna factor honesty in?

C'mon, we're talking about politicians... :)

(Clinton > Bush)
 
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blacbird said:
Clinton was at least forthright about avoiding the war. Bush . . ..

:ROFL:

Whatever helps you sleep at night, blacky.

Bush was at least flying planes and in some sort of military service while Clinton was growing a beard and not inhaling.
 

blacbird

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billythrilly7th said:
Bush was at least flying planes and in some sort of military service while Clinton was growing a beard and not inhaling.

Woo-hoo! Get to fly jets and stuff coke up the nose at frat parties that count toward National Guard service.

While this was happening, Thrills, I was trying to sleep in bunkers at firebases adjacent to the Cambodian border while Howitzers were sending outgoing into the dark woods outside the perimeter. Forgive me if I fail to be impressed.

caw
 

SC Harrison

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Geez. I can't believe we're arguing about which Vietnam War dodger President was the least devious. We've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard there's a damn hole in the thing.
 
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SC Harrison said:
Geez. I can't believe we're arguing about which Vietnam War dodger President was the least devious. We've scraped the bottom of the barrel so hard there's a damn hole in the thing.

We've never been in more agreement.

But let this thread stand as a monument to hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle. Thank you, blacbird for this shining example.

Republican in 1992-2000: Clinton Dodged the Draft.
Democrat: So what?

Democrat in 2000-2006: Bush got out of going to Vietnam.
Republican: So what?

Woo-hoo! Get to fly jets and stuff coke up the nose at frat parties that count toward National Guard service.

While this was happening, Thrills, I was trying to sleep in bunkers at firebases adjacent to the Cambodian border while Howitzers were sending outgoing into the dark woods outside the perimeter. Forgive me if I fail to be impressed.

As long as you're less or equally unimpressed with Clinton, there's no reason to continue with this thread.

Oh...unless that "up front that he dodged the draft" thing is more impressive.

I don't know...





Lock thread!!

Goodnight AW!!!
 

Jean Marie

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blacbird said:
At least we now know what "Mission Accomplished" really means.


caw
stoopid comment, agreed. stoopid war (iraq) agreed. afghanistan--the right thing to do. agreed.

clinton--did some pretty stoopid stuff, too. agreed.

rummy, the worst choice in the world, agreed. should have been tossed long ago, agreed.

politicians basically stoopid, agreed.
 

TheGaffer

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Here's what I get.

Bush = avoided Vietnam
Clinton = avoided Vietnam

Bush = Clinton.

Good.

Here's what I don't get.

Bush = avoided Vietnam
Kerry = fought in Vietnam

Bush = some kind of patriot.
Kerry = some kind of traitor.

Bush > Kerry

?
 

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TheGaffer said:
Bush = avoided Vietnam
Kerry = fought in Vietnam

Bush = some kind of patriot.
Kerry = some kind of traitor.

Gaffer, it's the simple application of math and dogma. See, if you do not operate in a reality based world, then it is no big deal to ignore the fact that every member of John Kerry's boat crew says Kerry saved their lives during the battle for which he received one of his medals, and instead replace it with the Swift Boat Veterens for Half Truths who got people who had been in Kerry's same fleet, but served on different boats or served during different time frames who say "I never saw John Kerry do anything heroic". Well, yeah, but you weren't in vietnam the same years Kerry was. Or you served on a different boat in another part of the country. And if your dogma is that you can't question a war, then the math gives convenient excuse to say Kerry is a traitor.
 

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eldragon said:
OMG.



What year is this?

"Swift Boat Veterans?"

You should go see Greg's 500-post thread on "Ohio was stolen, 2004" that he posted... last month.
 

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dclary

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TheGaffer said:
Here's what I don't get.

Bush = avoided Vietnam
Kerry = fought in Vietnam

Bush = some kind of patriot.
Kerry = some kind of traitor.

Bush > Kerry

?

Gaff, I have to think that the vast majority of folks who consider Kerry a traitor do so because of his words and actions after his military service, not during. Other than Hanoi Jane, no single American campaigned harder for vietnamese supremacy over american than Kerry did.

I mean.. Kerry's the only American listed as a war hero in Vietnam.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040604194804799
 

TheGaffer

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Gaff, I have to think that the vast majority of folks who consider Kerry a traitor do so because of his words and actions after his military service, not during.

That's mostly a fair argument.

But that's not the intellectual argument that was made in 2004, which was that Kerry was some kind of war criminal or simply an out-and-out liar, and how dare you suggest George Bush didn't complete his service honorably.
 

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TheGaffer said:
That's mostly a fair argument.

But that's not the intellectual argument that was made in 2004, which was that Kerry was some kind of war criminal or simply an out-and-out liar, and how dare you suggest George Bush didn't complete his service honorably.

I've kinda given up on the whole "intellectual argument" when it comes to american politics.
 
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