View Full Version : Cat - Urine/Poop - Help!

11-16-2006, 10:09 PM
Nothing to do with writing, but here goes:

I know some of you are pretty up on the animal health thing and I have a rather unusual problem.

14 year old cat, in an accident last year. She lost her tail but her bowel was also stretched and shifted. Highly unlikely that she would ever live out a natural lifespan, but there you go.

Over time the bowel gradually deteriorated and I had to start emptying her manually about a year ago. Not a big problem, although things have got worse.

About 5 months ago she developed a fluid type lump on her back, just behind where her tail would start. It would appear quickly then disappear just as quickly. Didn't take her to the vet because they would have never seen it anyway by the time I'd got an appointment booked.

The lump became more frequent and then last Sunday it came up and just got bigger and bigger. No disappearing act.
The penny finally dropped - urine!

Anyhow she wasn't weeing naturally and in pain so I shot off to the vet.
This was not the vet who treat her originally and she was pretty much gobsmacked by the course of events.

The vet drained the lump and sent me off home (long story in the middle of this)
Anyhow, I've had to drain it ever since. About every 4 hours. Got to the point where I can't see straight. And to top it off, have to do the poop thing as well.

Vet says to put her under anesthetic (don't care if spelled wrong) may actually kill her, due to possible kidney problems and age.
She also wanted to give her a bucket load of other treatments - another long story, but at the end of the day I'm stil going to have to cope with the bowel thing.

Main problem at the minute is that she is not urinating - any ideas on how to get her to do this????
Note - her normal bladder has disappeared into the depths of her gut and won't be manipulated by hand.

11-16-2006, 10:25 PM
Without seeing the cat, or at least some photos of the areas in question, I can only guestimate what's really going on here. When the doctor drained that lump, did he tell you what the fluid was? Having urine form there can only mean the bladder has somehow migrated into an unusual position, which would be extremely - let's just say, unusual.

Did he offer to put a catheter in her bladder? Females are more difficult than males, but not impossible. The point is, she MUST urinate. If you can't express the bladder manually, and she can express it naturally, then something must be done, and not tomorrow.

Tell me this - does the cat walk ? Does she try to use the pan and nothing comes out, or does she not even attempt to go herself? Is she eating/drinking? Do you express her bowels, or does a liquid stool just leak out?

11-16-2006, 10:37 PM
Sorry, MM, I know I'm being vague but I'm really tired.

Definitely urine. I'd figured it before I got to the vets. As you say - very unusual. The vet said it couldn't possibly be and thought she would find blood or pus.
I won the bet.
She withdrew it by syringe and needle, which is what I have been doing ever since. I get between 50-100ml at every withdrawal.
The cat has been on antibiotics, and she is certainly better than Sunday, when obviously her bladder would have burst had things continued.

The vet didn't suggest a catheter. What she did say was that she would like to empty her under anesthetic, but because of the nature of her 'biology' wanted to take an x-ray plus test her kidneys first. Oh, and she also thinks she has an overactive thyroid and wants to treat her for that (but apparently it can affect the kidneys)

The cat does squat in an attempt to go, and has being so ok upto last Sunday. I think there must be a blockage or 'twist' in there somewhere.
She is eating and drinking, and believe it or not, is quite happy - in fact she is being a right pest.
She is weak on the back legs but still trotting around and clambering up onto stuff.
Bowel movements are fine. I can still get them out provided I get the urine out of the way.

Thing is, if she was actually ill in herself, then I would have her put to sleep immediately, but I can't say she is. Then again, I don't want the vet to put her through a load of stuff if she is not going to see the benefit of it.
The bowel is completely unrepairable, I've known that all along. But I didn't expect her damn bladder to get her!

Little Red Barn
11-16-2006, 10:47 PM
Poor baby! Your cat has undergone quite a lot. And animals generally hide their pain...something to due with survival. I am probably not going to spell this right, but its not uncommon for older cats to develope cystitus...especially spayed or neutered ones at that. Did your vet rule this out? My cat had it and it is fatal if not treated...she survived. Don't know if this helps...but keep us posted. kimmi

11-16-2006, 10:58 PM
Okay, so you're aspirating the urine yourself using a needle and syringe? That's fine for now, but if you have to keep doing that, you're going to destroy the bladder. She's on antibiotics now, and that will help prevent infection in the bladder due to all the needle entries - but this is a temporary measure at best.

I agree that test have to be run before anesthesia on a cat of this age and condition - but I also agree the cost can be prohibitive. And running the tests doesn't mean it'll be safe to do.

Is she a fat cat? You mentioned you're having trouble feeling her bladder because it has receeded into the bowels, but manual expression is really the best way to go about this. The fact that urine is collecting in a cyst formation above the tail has me very puzzled. It means either the bladder has shifted into a position that really shouldn't be possible, or the urethra has diverted there, or she has a leak that's forming in a pocket - if that's the case . . . well, let's not go there just yet.

Thing is, if you can locate the bladder accurately enough to get the needle in there, then you should be able to manually express it. That's slow going, sure, but much better than aspirating if you can avoid it. A catheter would drain the bladder continually - messy sometimes - but if the vet didn't suggest that then there's other considerations that kept her from it. Or you could inquire.

I honestly wish I was there - I'd love to get my hands on this cat and find out what's really going on, and help you find an easier way to void that bladder. I wish I could be more help !

At this point, treating her thyroid would be pointless. Let's worry about emptying that bladder regularly and keeping her happy.

11-16-2006, 10:59 PM
Well the vet didn't mention it specifically, Kimmi, but she did test the urine (more to prove to herself that it was urine I think;) ) but the cat has been on antibiotics all week, so if it was a problem they should have helped.

It's actually amazing as to how well she has coped. Things don't bother her much at all really. I can give even give her injections without her so much as flinching.

11-16-2006, 11:06 PM
Hey, in all my years, I swear animals KNOW when we're trying to help them. Especially the ones with chronic issues, they appreciate that what we're doing is making them feel better.

I think it's fantastic that she's letting you do all this. And if her bladder issue is a new twist in her later years that the both of you are willing to deal with, then more power to the two of you!

The fact that she's still feeling sassy and content is really great. That's what's important.

11-16-2006, 11:11 PM
Yep, I'm aspirating it, but as you say... it can't go on without doing damage. She isn't fat at all - just tried to take a photo but she's sound asleep and I haven't the heart to wake her up.

You can't empty the bladder manually - should be able to - but can't. The vet couldn't do it.

The cost of all the tests is prohibitive, but on top of all that I don't want to put her through a load more stuff. She isn't suffering at the moment and I don't want her to. Pest that she is, she has been one heck of a patient.

The vet was lobbing that many things at me, I think she just put me off. But, I have to admit, I think she was doing it because she was just as confused as everyone else is when they first see her. I'm in full agreement with you about the thyroid - I'll just feed her more.

I hate to think about it, but I think a pouch has formed as well. The damn thing has been going up and down for months. First it was probably a month apart, then a couple of weeks then every few days. I'm sure there are pouches in her bowel as well.

I'll phone the vets tomorrow and talk to them about a catheter. Maybe she just didn't suggest it on Sunday because there was that much to think about. I think we were both hoping that she would start to empty herself again. Ain't gonna happen.

If the worst happens at least I know she's had a decent quality of life and I won't let things deteriorate to the point where she hasn't.

Thing is, I lost another of my cats just 3 weeks ago. Kidney failure. Fine when we went to bed, dying in the morning. Rushing to the vets at 6.30am. That was a bit of a shock, but at least it was quick.

I think the animals are out to get me:cry:

11-16-2006, 11:16 PM
Hey, in all my years, I swear animals KNOW when we're trying to help them. Especially the ones with chronic issues, they appreciate that what we're doing is making them feel better.

I think it's fantastic that she's letting you do all this. And if her bladder issue is a new twist in her later years that the both of you are willing to deal with, then more power to the two of you!

The fact that she's still feeling sassy and content is really great. That's what's important.

Oh, yes, I think you are spot on. She knows for sure. Her tolerance has been amazing.

Same with Bob the goat in the photo. Crikey, what he hasn't had wrong with him. Yet I've never seen him down and he's never fallen out with me (mind he can tell the difference between a syringe with a needle on and one without, at about 20 feet)
Bobs list (from what I can remember)

E Coli infection (that's where I came in)
Kidney infection
Joint ill
The squits from hell
Slipping patella (replaced)
Rib cage injury requiring surgery (due to a kick when he was a baby)
Fallen at stifles (came back up!!!)

11-16-2006, 11:28 PM
They're members of the family, that's for sure !

I completely understand. I lost 4 cats in the span of a year and a half due to age related illnesses and cancers, and it's never easy - but quality of life is the real point, isn't it?

The thing about manual expression, especially with a female, is patience. If you can get the bladder in your hand, and give it moderate pressure, she should relax the urethra and urine will come out. But if you've tried and it doesn't, then no, you don't want to force anything. There could be a pocket, and if there were a blockage you'd do more damage.

I'd keep up what you're doing, and if you can inquire about a catheter tomorrow, do that. It's not a great option, but it is an option.

And if you need or want to, email me any time - Kristine (at) wavecable.com

11-16-2006, 11:47 PM
I'm trying a photo...

See the bump? Her back should just carry on down but doesn't.
She does actually leak a little bit of urine - thought I should mention it. You wouldn't notice it, but you do find damp patches on her bedding.

I won't push the manual thing too hard - you make a good point about it being a pouch and me doing more harm than good.

Thanks for all the advice!

11-17-2006, 02:52 PM
Update (I know Kristine will be fidgeting)

Phoned the vets first thing and spoke to the one I saw on Sunday. She said no go on a catheter, other than having to leave her with them with one fitted for a couple of days.
Then she started going down the x-ray/tests route.

Anyway main vet jumped in and asked me to take her down (he must be keen, we avoid each other as we are both bossy) He's cut to the chase. No x-rays or tests. She's going in Monday and he is going to open her up. If the portion of her bladder that has moved through her back muscle can be brought back, then he will do it.
No guarantees that she will make it through the op, no guarantees that she will be able to urinate normally after, and if, when he opens her up it is an absolute mess then he will put her to sleep. I don't think you can say fairer than that considering the circumstances.

Meanwhile I have to keep aspirating (but have new needles, yeah!) and will get back to him if things change.

He did actually say that it is one of those cases that 'you only ever read about, but never see.'
The bluddy cat will make it into a journal before I do.
I knew there had to be a writing link somewhere in this thread:D

Oh, and the vet who saw her originally, I think was quite new. Apparently it was her first weekend on call on her own - and she had to get one of mine!
Good job it wasn't the goat.

11-17-2006, 09:22 PM
God bless the old-school guys ! Seriously, at this point it really IS all or nothing, because something has to be done. I know why we pushed testing, but there comes a point where it's time to just do something. When you get a vet fresh out of school (I always wanted to kill those) they're still gung-ho on all the new fangled crap, all the tests and diagnostic tools that school has dictated to them are the routes to follow.

What they're not used to yet is the clients, the fact that reality isn't found in the text books, and the understanding that - at times - things boil down to living or dying.

When my big beautiful boy, Muse, developed his Feline Infections Peritonitis (fluid around the lungs) there were tests to be run, lots of MRI's we could have performed, and experimental treatments that would have given him a grand total of one more week to live. But what it boiled down to was those tests would simply tell us he had FIP. We already knew that.

In your case, the tests would show you the cat is old, and that surgery is a risk. Well, we know that - but we also know that going without some sort of surgical intervention is going to prove fatal. If the surgery proves fatal, then you lose her (heaven forbid) knowing you did EVERYTHING you possibly could, and she went peacefully.

If surgery is a success, then you've improved her circumstances as much as you possibly could, and already you've gone further than a lot of pet owners might.

Either way, I wish you and her the best of luck. Your main vet sounds like one with years of experience, and I'd take them over the brand new ones any day !


And I really want to read that paper if he publishes - I'm amazed at what this cat's bladder has done!

11-17-2006, 09:50 PM
I was amazed at her bowels, but the bladder has them well beat!

You're absolutely right. It's the reason I didn't agree to anything on Sunday. At the moment the cat has a pretty good quality of life. Putting her under for tests and x-rays would simply have meant this would have deteriorated due to recovery periods ... and it would have all led to the same thing.

In fairness to the new vet, it is a pretty unusual thing and I suppose her training just led her to follow the most normal route even in an abnormal case. Trouble is it was all just going to lead to the same place.

I was very relieved to get boss man vet this morning. As I say, we do tend to avoid each other, as I am a client 'with a voice,' but this time I really needed him to step in and cut to the chase.

Personally I don't think she'll make it. I think he will open her up and not be able to do anything. Not being negative, it's just that I know how much things have stretched and shifted and how they continue to do so.

Anyway, lets see if I can get her through the weekend for starters. This aspirating every 3 hours is nearly killing me!

I'll keep you updated. The cat has proved me wrong before. She has one heck of a will to live.
Just had a plateful of food and is stomping round tormenting the dog.
(The cat, not me):tongue

11-17-2006, 09:56 PM
I just found this thread and wanted to say--my heart goes out to you, Dolly, and your four legged friend.
(I might have missed this, but will you tell us her name?)

There's no measuring the amount of joy pets can, and do, bring into a person's life. It's so hard watching a member of the family grow older, but there's comfort in knowing you're giving them the best life possible. And it sounds like this is exactly what you're doing.

Wish I could be of help, but not only do I lack in veterinary training, but in a cruel twist of fate, I developed an allergy to cats in my twenties (didn't stop me from taking in a stray, but he is banished from the bed).

Please let us know how things go on Monday. My thoughts are with you. :Hug2:

11-17-2006, 10:20 PM
Thanks Alia,
Funny how you should mention her name, I purposefully left it out because I thought it would stop people getting attached. Nameless things remain more clinical? Only just realised it when you mentioned it.

She is JC (Jayce for short) as in Joan Collins. She bears little resemblance to Joan other than the fact she was always putting one over on the boys. I guess Dynasty must have been running when she turned up on the doorstep that night. Or was it The ***** ... could have been.

I'll be sure to keep you all updated and many thanks for the advice and support ... I was starting to feel a little out on a limb:D

I got stars - the film beginning with B and is the female version of a dog - you can't say anything these days!

11-17-2006, 11:04 PM
Oh I feel so badly for your baby and you! I don't have any helpful advice other than I wish the outcome to be one with the best interests of all involved, with the least pain, too. It's never easy when family is struggling. :Hug2:

11-17-2006, 11:13 PM
Thanks Alia,
Funny how you should mention her name, I purposefully left it out because I thought it would stop people getting attached.

Too late. And I don't mind. JC's amazing story did it for me, and the picture of her helped. It's one of my favorite cat poses.

I don't have any legs. Look how harmless I am. Why don't you come a little closer . . . closer . . .

She sounds like a fighter, and I'm rooting for you both.

11-18-2006, 12:29 AM
Hang in there - I'll pray you have a quiet weekend, at least. And no matter what happens, rest assured you're an amazing steward of these family members we call pets !:Hug2:

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-18-2006, 01:12 AM
Name or no name... it takes but a nanosecond to fall in love. ;) Blessings on you both and prayers for the best outcome. Hugs!

11-18-2006, 06:04 AM
What a story, Dollywagon!

Kudos for doing all you do for your cat (and goats, of course!)

I hope the vet can do something Monday. Did you already say how long you have had JC?

11-18-2006, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the kind wishes!

She'll be about 14 now, Pam. I've had her over 13 years. Turned up on the doorstep at midnight and started beating the boys up to get at their food.

I think someone had chucked her onto the river bank with her kittens. Looked like she'd just had her first litter because she had milk. I searched for the kittens but never found them. We lived at the side of a river, so it was a handy 'dropping off' point for people who didn't want their animals anymore. Much like your Lucky really.

It really will be a shame if the vet can't do anything because other than 'rear-end' problems she really is fine.
She lets me aspirate the area no problem. We have it sussed. Kneel infront of the fire with the cat laid across my legs and backside getting nice and warm - she actually goes to sleep!

11-18-2006, 06:47 PM
Right, quick update.

As of this morning, here that would be about 7 hours ago, the lump on her back didn't fill back up after I aspirated it.

I waited with baited breath to see where the urine was going (had her bladder burst?)
Anyway, it's going into her bladder normal and she is weeing! (Wheeeee!)

I've spoken to the vet and he wants me to take her in for the op on Monday as normal because he thinks the 'fix' is temporary.
Although I think he is right, I'm still wriggling about it because I could still lose her for an op that is not (at least for the moment) necessary.

Now things could change between now and Monday anyway, so we reached an agreement whereby I would take her in and they would re-assess her before doing anything.

She's still not her normal self at the mo, quite wobbly on the back end, which started when she became ill on Sunday, but otherwise is scooting around like the pest she has always been.

Could be though that the decision to have the op turns out to be even harder than I expected it to be.

11-19-2006, 12:40 AM
That's great news Dolly, but yeah, I can see how it would make the decision of whether or not to go ahead with the surgery a difficult one. My gut reaction is to listen to the vet. But then again, I tend to rely heavily on a vet's opinion when my cat or dog is unwell. Perhaps more than is needed.
It's tough, but whichever option you choose, it'll be the one you think is best for her, and you can't ask more from yourself than that.

11-19-2006, 03:45 AM
Glad things seem to be going ok, she looks a lovely cat! All fuzzy and warm and purry ...

Must be difficult to decide about the op though ...

11-19-2006, 06:24 PM
Oh it just gets worse and worse, because the cat gets better and better.

She's haring around her making a right nuisance of herself.

Her back legs are getting stronger, her coat is looking sleeker ... I don't want to make the decision!!!!!:rant:

11-19-2006, 09:39 PM
Kidney failure. Fine when we went to bed, dying in the morning.
We had the same thing happen with one of our cats. He died at the vets.

I hope you have a good outcome with your cat.

11-20-2006, 01:47 PM
It is a shock when that happens, isn't it Andre?

Anyhow, a decision wasn't necessary because by the time Jayce got to the vets he decided she was fine and there was no reason to interfere!

I'm still a bit concerned about her bowels at the mo though. Everything seems to have shifted again and I think she's developed another pouch that stuff is getting backlogged in.
I'll have a fiddle later today.

But I was very relieved that he didn't insist she was operated on, it took a lot of pressure off me.

I'm off to tidy up but if I get the chance (and she is OK) I'll take another piccie of her for you.

Thanks for all your advice and kind wishes:Hug2:

11-20-2006, 06:24 PM
Goodness! This is a day-to-day thing for you, isn't it?

As long as the cat acts OK, it's good not to have to decide anything.

11-20-2006, 08:15 PM
It is a relief Pam. After speaking to the vet on Saturday I thought I may have a fight on my hands. Then, he was coming from the 'only temporary respite' stance - a point which I could well understand - but after seeing her today he took one look and told me to take her home!

I was going to post you all a nice cosy photo of her, but so far I only have pictures of her back end as she is leaving. She's feeling better:D

Once the batteries on my camera are recharged and she is feeling sleepy, I'll give it another go.

I told you the animals were out to get me:tongue

11-20-2006, 11:30 PM
Yes, they are all out to get us! I'm glad to hear she didn't need the surgery, at least not right now. If she can get some strength in that back end and walk around, that helps things work properly.

Sounds like she's doing a lot of running around :)

11-20-2006, 11:46 PM
Oh yes, Kristine you are right. I promised the vet that as soon as the problem arose again I would book her straight in.

Back end strong enough - strong enough to jump onto my desk and knock a cup of tea all over it:rant:

11-21-2006, 12:48 AM
Hehehe, good kitty :D

11-21-2006, 12:59 AM
Pah! If you think she's driving me nuts, you ought to see the goat. He hates the 'fluffies.'

They waft fluffy fur over his face and nose, their tails float past him in a very irritating manner (well, obviously not J.C's tail) and he simply can't stand it.

Usually he gives their tail a tug but in Jayce's case he pulls her ear!

I think he had just about got used to living with one 'fluffy' and was quite settled down. Now the main annoyance is back and working overtime to drive him bonkers;) Must be, because her ears are a bit soggy:D

11-21-2006, 03:36 AM
That's wonderful news Dolly!

I was itching to get back online to see how things worked out for you today (I have irregular internet access). I'm delighted to hear JC is feeling well enough to cause trouble. It's brightened my day, and I can only imagine how relieved you are.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
11-21-2006, 05:35 AM
Same here! Glad to see things are looking up. One day at a time...

11-29-2006, 06:59 PM
I just thought I'd take a minute out to upload a pic of JC that I took this morning.
She was outside in the sunshine and sharpening her claws very nicely thank you!


11-29-2006, 08:00 PM
Aww! She's a cutie :) So is she able to urinate okay now? Still getting that bulge?

She looks a LOT like our late cat Fable (who had a bobbed tail) Nice warm sunshine . . . perfect for kitties :D

Little Red Barn
11-29-2006, 08:53 PM
Sweet! I am glad she is doing better! kimmi

11-29-2006, 09:12 PM
She's not really able to go on her own, MM. Basically I have to empty her manually, but by her bladder not her back, 2 or 3 times a day. Thing is, it's keeping the bulge down. Something must be blocking somewhere and then the urine is being forced up through her back muscle?
Both the bladder and bowel situation are deteriorating when it comes to her passing normally, but hey, she's living life and enjoying it at the moment which is definitely a massive improvement on the other week.

Anyhow, it certainly is a one day at a time thing, but she's great about being 'messed with,' doesn't bother her a jot!

I'm actually very pleased I took the photo. See that spade handle in shot ... I've been looking for that for months!

11-29-2006, 09:19 PM
Oh blow it.
I decided to put this one up as well. At least she looks as if she has sorta got a tail.

Had a nice day taking photos which is quite unusual because I usually only end up with ears and backsides!


11-29-2006, 10:10 PM
She's borrowing tail for the photo :D

It's good to see her enjoying herself right now, regardless of what's going on, that's the important thing!

11-29-2006, 10:34 PM
Why did your Fable have a bobbed tail?

11-29-2006, 11:36 PM
Great pix! So nice to see that she's having good days. :)

11-30-2006, 12:07 AM
Thanks AW!

She'd just been up in the field chasing something, which is what prompted me to go out with the camera in the first place.

Right, now I'm going to hijack my own thread. Goat and sheep photo just because I like it and I want to share. I'd just had some hay delivered and everybody was being naughty, I got them just as they were standing still for a minute.
From left to right: Oscar, Bob and Bogie (fully grown sheep!!!) Check out Oscars ears for confirmation that they were all in fact leaping about like lunatics.


11-30-2006, 12:19 AM
Why did your Fable have a bobbed tail?

Birth defect - very common. Any cat with a bob tail that ISN'T a bob-tailed breed, is just a birth defect. Or in your cat's case, a surgical amputation.

Fable's was only 4 vertibrea long, and kinked in the cutest way. She'd wag it all the time, and when she was about to launch into one of those cat-frenzies, it would go around and around. We always said she was winding up !

The two boys I have now each have slightly shorter than normal tails, with several kinks in them.

11-30-2006, 12:33 AM
There, you see, now you've got me reading up on Manx cats!

I must admit, although I've had dogs for as long as I can remember, I never had cats until this 'batch.' The main reason being, that from the age of 17, I kept bull-breeds and never felt comfortable with taking the risk.

The two boys and JC turned up while I still had the bull-breeds and although the boys stayed well clear, JC used to try and get to them to give them a bit of a smack:eek: :eek:
She frightened the living daylights out of me and we actually took her to a cat sanctuary to try to get her rehomed.

Anyhow, we didn't like the idea of her being kept in a cage and ended up bringing her back. The funny thing was that the dogs grew to 'ignore' all our cats. They acted like they just couldn't see them. If a strange cat went across the garden they would go beserk, but ours were invisible.

It all seemed very odd - but then, although they never grew to be pals, nobody ever got killed or injured either. My new dog is a different kettle of fish. Everybody just picks on him and he takes it!

11-30-2006, 12:34 AM
Dolly, Bogie is beautiful! My dad used to raise sheep and when the little black lambs were born, they looked just like poodles. :)

But, when they grew up, their wool turned white while their faces and legs stayed black. I don't remember seeing any all-black adult sheep in his flock. Is Bogie a specific breed?

11-30-2006, 12:46 AM
Were your dad's Suffolks, Anne?

Bogie is actually an Icelandic sheep but he's never really grown (well, he's a lot wider than he should be.) Even his horns have never grown. He's a funny little soul. Likes his own company, although sometimes he does hang around with Molly. Loves his head stroking but hates to be cuddled.

He had a bit of a bad start with somebody else and I offered to take him on, but he's turned out to be a real character, with a fleece to die for!!!! The goats were trying to pick on him today, but he stands his ground and isn't bothered by them, so eventually they give up.

I've also got a pure black Hebridean (Molly) but her coat tends to go brown with the sun because the pigmentation isn't that strong. So far, Bogie has stayed jet black.

11-30-2006, 01:59 AM
I miss playing Tackle with the goats - they always won and never understood the term "Game Over."

Ahh, what fun that was :)

11-30-2006, 09:57 AM
Erm, yes. Well that was pretty much what was happening when I was trying to get the hay and straw away. They were jumping on everything, butting it, standing on it ....

How they manage to make a hard job even harder .... !

I was amazed I even managed to get a snap of them.

11-30-2006, 11:19 PM
They're adorable!