Artist-less Writer >sniff<

If you want a basic idea of a comic book script format, swing over to the Dark Horse website. They have a sample you can download in their submissions guidelines. You will find that different people/creatives/publishers have their own variations but the Dark Horse example is a good place to start.

As for an artist, if you have the money to pay an artist, you'll have no problem finding one. If you are looking to find someone to invest their art in your script, you'll have a harder time.

Harder, but not impossible. I've done it and have two books coming up for pitching. In both cases I planned a mini-series or graphic novel where parts are split into 22 page "chapters." I ask the creatives to commit to the first 22 pages only, for free (actually deferred payment until it gets picked up). But they also need to commit to working on the rest of the project when it's picked up (Image insists that the creative team stay intact if they pick up the book and if the creative team changes, the deal is off).

For both of my spec projects I found an artist, inker, colorist and letterer, all very talented and all willing to take a leap of faith for 22 pages. So it is possible.

Look on Digital Webbing, Figma and PencilJack. All three have forums where creatives post their work and DW has a place where you can advertise for the person.

Hope this helps.

Hi, can't help you on the artist front, but here's a sample of a Sandman script if that helps at all regarding your worries.

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~afarrell/things/script.html

*sigh* I hate to say something so crushing off the bat, but you're possibly boned on the art thing.

The ratio of comic writers-to-artists at the bottom level is extremely skewed, for various reasons I won't bother getting into at this time. The odds of a reliable, dedicated, talented artist who isn't taken and wants to work on your project simply falling into your lap are sort of like winning the lottery these days.

But take heart, comics still get made, so it can be done! It's just...tricky.

Your options break down more or less as follows:

1. Write a script and send it to a publisher that has artists on tap. (Downside: Lots of competition, often narrow subject matter range. Upside: Big money, fame, glory, etc.)

2. Write a novel instead.
(Downside: Novels and graphic novels are two different beasts. Good storytelling in one doesn't neccessarily translate into the other. Upside: You don't have to deal with artists.)

3. Write something so wildly successful that artists are beating down your door to collaborate with you.
(Downside: Tiresome groupies. May be harder than it looks.)

4. Pay an artist real money. Please Note: "A percentage of sales when we publish" is generally not considered real money. You may occasionally find an artist willing to work for potential money, but the vast majority have already gotten burned on that any number of times by the time you meet them, and now are jaded and cynical and want cash on the barrelhead, and furthermore, if you snoop around an art site making such offers, you'll get torn a new one by the afore mentioned artists who are nursing their burns. This is the way of the world.
(Downside: Costs Real Money. Upside: Opens up a whole new world of available artists.)

5. Learn to draw.
(Downside: Hard, takes a long time, and you won't care about your current script by the time you're good at it. Upside: Not as hard as you'd think. You, too, can have writers beating down your door!)

UrsulaV said:

*sigh* I hate to say something so crushing off the bat, but you're possibly boned on the art thing.

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I am gonna take issue with some of this post. Because some of it simply isn't true. Though please note, I am not trying to pick a fight.

UrsulaV said:

The ratio of comic writers-to-artists at the bottom level is extremely skewed, for various reasons I won't bother getting into at this time. The odds of a reliable, dedicated, talented artist who isn't taken and wants to work on your project simply falling into your lap are sort of like winning the lottery these days.

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The vast majority of this para is bang on the money. there are lots of artists who write, and you have to knock their socks off to get them to not work on their project in favor of your project. But it IS possible. However, you should be aware that there are an aweful lot of flakes out there. Lots of people think they can draw a comicbook because they can do a pretty hot pin-up pic. Drawing sequentials is a massive job, and the artist has to be incredibly committed. 22 pages an issue, multiple panels per page, all have to be the same quality and ideally tell the story without the addition of any words and yet still leave room for the voice buubles et al. You MUST find someone who has done sequentials before and know what they are letting themselves in for.

But there are artists out there.

I have two and I have at least three more that I am lining up projects with. But it comes down to having a REALLY strong concept and being able to deliver a script that is worth their investment of time and talent.

UrsulaV said:

But take heart, comics still get made, so it can be done! It's just...tricky.

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Probably harder than selling a novel or a movie script for a newbie.

UrsulaV said:

1. Write a script and send it to a publisher that has artists on tap. (Downside: Lots of competition, often narrow subject matter range. Upside: Big money, fame, glory, etc.)

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Don't bother. Almost every comic publisher will not accept scripts. The big two tend to go with people who have written books or movie scripts or poach them from other comic companies. Smaller indie comic companies don't have the time or inclination to start match-making writers with artist teams. If you wanna break in, with your own idea, you have to get the team.

UrsulaV said:

2. Write a novel instead.
(Downside: Novels and graphic novels are two different beasts. Good storytelling in one doesn't neccessarily translate into the other. Upside: You don't have to deal with artists.)

Click to expand...

Most definitely. Everything you convey to the novel reader is done by your words. With a comic, you have to let the artist do their part and in many cases, the colorist and letterer will also help with visual clues and direction in subtle ways. You have a lot more freedom to be creative, but with that comes the part where you have to direct the art team in what exactly you want included that you won't "write."

UrsulaV said:

3. Write something so wildly successful that artists are beating down your door to collaborate with you.
(Downside: Tiresome groupies. May be harder than it looks.)

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Catch 22.

One of my comics came from a schort story. I then developed the script but sent the short to the talent I was trying to get to work with me. Here is the basic idea and world that the book will happen in, but the comic goes way bigger than this short story. That was enough to land a great artist. the other project I simply found an artist who I thought looked good and would be a good stylistic match with the comic and pitched the idea (very loosely).

UrsulaV said:

4. Pay an artist real money. Please Note: "A percentage of sales when we publish" is generally not considered real money. You may occasionally find an artist willing to work for potential money, but the vast majority have already gotten burned on that any number of times by the time you meet them, and now are jaded and cynical and want cash on the barrelhead, and furthermore, if you snoop around an art site making such offers, you'll get torn a new one by the afore mentioned artists who are nursing their burns. This is the way of the world.
(Downside: Costs Real Money. Upside: Opens up a whole new world of available artists.)

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This is true. But the backend deal is something that even established small indie publishers offer. One thing that may attract an artist is if you offer them a real collaboration, giving them all the creative freedom they want and giving them a co-creator credit. This has the benefit of having them very invested in what is now their baby as well.

UrsulaV said:

5. Learn to draw.
(Downside: Hard, takes a long time, and you won't care about your current script by the time you're good at it. Upside: Not as hard as you'd think. You, too, can have writers beating down your door!)

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I wouldn't. I can and I don't. Main reason I don't is I know I'd be a flake artist!

It is difficult, but if you do your homework, and have a strong project to sell, it is very do-able. But do-able and actually getting done are very different creatures.

wordmonkey said:

This is true. But the backend deal is something that even established small indie publishers offer. One thing that may attract an artist is if you offer them a real collaboration, giving them all the creative freedom they want and giving them a co-creator credit. This has the benefit of having them very invested in what is now their baby as well.

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Ah, but believe me, there's a HUUUUUGE giant mondo adjective adjective difference between "We'll pay royalties" from even the smallest of established small indie publishers and "Hey, work on my project and we'll split the money!" from a random writer off the internet cruising the art forums with their script clutched to their chest. That's the key and pivotal difference. I--and I'm an artist, so that's where I'm comin' from here--will cheerfully take a backend deal from an established publisher--heck, that's the deal I took for the dead tree version of my comic!--whereas I would and have laughed in the face of anyone who said "Draw my comic, and I'll split the money when we get published!"*

Wearing my artist hat, I have to admit that if another artist said "This guy has a comic book idea and he says we'll split the money when it sells," I'd say "Oh, god, don't even think about it," because 99% of those deals involve the artist doing a lot of work and getting nothing but grief.

There are ways to make your comic more attractive to artists--and a specific plan for a proposal to a publisher is one of them--but I think we're both agreeing that getting a reliable, talented artist is Really Really Tricky.

Not impossible--nowhere did I say impossible!--but Really Really Tricky nonetheless.



*Metaphorically. I try to be nice about it.

UrsulaV said:

Ah, but believe me, there's a HUUUUUGE giant mondo adjective adjective difference between "We'll pay royalties" from even the smallest of established small indie publishers and "Hey, work on my project and we'll split the money!" from a random writer off the internet cruising the art forums with their script clutched to their chest. That's the key and pivotal difference. I--and I'm an artist, so that's where I'm comin' from here--will cheerfully take a backend deal from an established publisher--heck, that's the deal I took for the dead tree version of my comic!--whereas I would and have laughed in the face of anyone who said "Draw my comic, and I'll split the money when we get published!"

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Yeah, there is a difference. But in my experience, trying to break down the door with some small publishers, that is really no more of a guarantee. You need to bump up to the companies that have distribution deals or can do joint publications.

UrsulaV said:

Wearing my artist hat, I have to admit that if another artist said "This guy has a comic book idea and he says we'll split the money when it sells," I'd say "Oh, god, don't even think about it," because 99% of those deals involve the artist doing a lot of work and getting nothing but grief.

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Which I think is where we part ways, as I'm obviously coming fromt he writer side. Like I said, you need to have a project that someone like yourself would say, "Hey, that's awesome! I'll put my own stuff aside to work on this." Of course, having some published record helps. But then it's the old Catch 22 again. You need to be published to be published.

UrsulaV said:

There are ways to make your comic more attractive to artists--and a specific plan for a proposal to a publisher is one of them--but I think we're both agreeing that getting a reliable, talented artist is Really Really Tricky.

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Definitely agree with this. Knowing what you are doing will make you more attractive. Doing your research and knowing what to include in a pitch. There are small publishers who sometimes look for writers, and there are places like Savanna Art School has a comic book degree course which puts out a lot of talent that is hungry. But just showing up with an idea is not enough.

The one area where you might not look so new is if you adopt the marvel scripting process. The way I understand it, Marvel writers do a basic description of what happens on the page, but do no layout directions and don't do the dialog in any detail. The penciler works their mojo and writer goes over the art and refines the script for dialog etc.

Personally I prefer to do thumbnails of the page, then script to that. I have a good idea what the page will look like and I can either make sure I don't duplicate a page page layout by accident, or I can make sure I duplicate a page layout perfectly if I want that effect. However, when I pass the script on, I make sure my artist knows they can ditch my layout if they start to see the visuals differently (that is their job after all).

UrsulaV said:

Not impossible--nowhere did I say impossible!--but Really Really Tricky nonetheless.

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Agreed. Writing and selling a movie script is difficult. Writing and selling a novel is nigh impossible. Breaking into comics is the hardest of the lot. The biggest reason is that conventional wisdom dictates that however anyone breaks into comics can never be copied as the industry works hard to close that route immediately after.

So actually, we pretty much agree on everything. Except subbing a script to publishers. Unless you see an ad, or are invited, don't waste the trees.

wordmonkey said:

Yeah, there is a difference. But in my experience, trying to break down the door with some small publishers, that is really no more of a guarantee. You need to bump up to the companies that have distribution deals or can do joint publications.

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*grin* Can't speak to comic companies, but with RPGs, which have the same ten-billion-tiny-shady-presses thing goin' on, in my experience it breaks down to a hair over fifty-fifty on the wee companies--just barely better than half the time, you'll actually get paid.*

It's still a better bet than the lone stranger off the internet with an idea, where 99% of the time, you'll never get paid, but no, it's nothin' like a sure thing.

Even the companies with distribution deals occasionally crash and burn when the bills come due, but at least they send you nice notes about their adventures in bankruptcy courty.




*In fairness, they're not always deliberately screwing you--most of the time they simply go under.

wordmonkey said:

Personally I prefer to do thumbnails of the page, then script to that. I have a good idea what the page will look like and I can either make sure I don't duplicate a page page layout by accident, or I can make sure I duplicate a page layout perfectly if I want that effect. However, when I pass the script on, I make sure my artist knows they can ditch my layout if they start to see the visuals differently (that is their job after all).

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*grin* You almost certainly know this already, then, but let me insert the Comic Artist's Lament to the Writer for anyone else:

You can fit waaaaay less on a page than you think you can.

Seriously, if I had a nickel for every time I've been handed a script that had ten people in one panel, five of which had dialog and eight of which were doing something, I'd...

...have maybe a quarter, because I learned to stop working with those authors damn quick. *grin*

UrsulaV said:

*grin* You almost certainly know this already, then, but let me insert the Comic Artist's Lament to the Writer for anyone else:

You can fit waaaaay less on a page than you think you can.

Seriously, if I had a nickel for every time I've been handed a script that had ten people in one panel, five of which had dialog and eight of which were doing something, I'd...

...have maybe a quarter, because I learned to stop working with those authors damn quick. *grin*

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Well, as a comic reader and someone with a career in graphic design behind me, I actually have a pretty good idea of what I/the artist can get on a page. In fact, I am so uber-conscious of that, that I am usually surprised with how much space I have left in a panel.

However, I do know that is a major issue (and is probably why Marvel works the way they do). A very talented artist I am working with was very concerned about this very thing. First page of my script to her had ten panels on it and she was starting to wind up to give me a real dressing-down. Then she saw the script and was all nice as pie, 'cos I actually think about the page layout ahead of times.

So there!

Ner ner ne-ner ner!

Seriously though, the OP should be aware, if this is a route to explore, that page/panel layout is a very real thing to be aware of. There is much more than just having an idea for panel layout. There's POVs, angles, use of perspective and forced perspective, how many people are in a scene/panel and how much they are talking. I think that is the real killer. Some writers over word the panels so the sweet art gets lost under a bubble rampage.

I would still go for trying to find an artist. It's worked for me and now I get artists asking me to write for them or coming to me asking to collaborate. Which is nice!

The OP can follow my lead, but should know it's hard. But even following my lead, I think picking an artist's brain and seeing what THEY want. And lots of "pleases" and "thank-yous" go a loooooooooong way when money is not the major factor.

Idea

I wouldn't do this, and I don't really do it the other way when the request comes from a new artist looking to build a body of work, but...

You might wanna advertise for a newbie artist looking to have some sample sequentials in their portfolio.

That way you get to dabble with yoru scripting of a comic book and they get some samples and their feet wet with a (semi) real gig.

Just a thought.

If it goes beyond that, great, but everyone goes into that with eyes open.

Hey UrsulaV:

I have this awesome idea for a comic. I checked out your samples. Wanna collaborate? I can write really good stories that are like wicked-cool and are mega-guaranteed to sell to DC and Marvel. If you can send me a whole bunch of specific samples what are following my character ideas, I just know that we will have a winner.



I have actually seen ads like that (obviously lacking the specific target artist).

Digital Webbing has ads for writers and I have picked up gigs there. Before I started pulling my own projects an dteams togther, I wrote other people's projects. It's a way to make contacts and develop you skills.

If you find an artist who you think is good and will fit your style, sending them a message which is the complete opposite to the above might get you some surprising results. It never hurts to try for the artists you like. the worst they will do is say no. But if you show you know the business-side of things (and having a few contacts never hurts); be professional; be very complimentary, but not suck-up; and show you both know and appeciate what the art team does, and you might land someone.

Having some samples will also help. Try working on some 5 - 12 page comic scripts of existing characters. That will show you have an understanding of the form, can get into a character and can tell a nice tight little story. This also has the benefit of hooking an artist who might be looking for a sample cript to draw for their portfolio. "Sure, you can draw this script if it helps you out. Now what do you think to my idea for a War-of-the-Worlds-meets-Charlie-Chan-under-water-with-Kamakazi-Gophers graphic novel?"

So UrsulaV, whaddaya say? You interested?

Ursula can't do art for you. She has to go work on her strip so I can read it!



What I've found, with artists, is that it's mostly an Old Boys Network, if you know the phrase. The best solution, in real life, is to buy them a drink or two. on the internet, it's mostly just to be a nice person who doesn't seem like he's actively hunting for an artist.

When I work with an artist, it's either because I already know him and we get along. Barring that, I generally work out my comic with whateer publisher is doing it, and then I go find an artist that both myself and my publisher like, and I say "I have a story. I have a publisher. Are you interested?"

Same as finding an agent for a novel.

This does you no good at all for web-comics, though.