Contest Discussion

I think it would be good if we all gave our opinions on contests, festivals and fellowships.

What do you think? Let's talk about it.

Which contests do you think are good, and which are bad?

Let's hear the praise and war stories.

I think this would be a good thread for those thinking of entering or those who wish to make the best impression when sending out.

But let's keep the topic on track.

I'll go first. Slamdance was great for me.

Going to the festival and having that "screenwriter winner" badge was a great opportunity for networking. I got a job out of the deal and that made the money spent for the contest worth while.

I personally stay away from any contests put out by prod companies or have an option clause in the rules.

I personally stay away from any contests put out by prod companies or have an option clause in the rules.

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Why?

Writing Again -

Contests run by prod cos are often meaningless. They have no prestige in the industry and all they do is get writer's to cover the costs of the companies development budget.

Each writer pays to enter - then the company turns around and gives the "winner" an option deal out of the the entry fees paid by him and other writers.

You should not have to pay a prod co to read your work. It's really rather scammy and slimy.

good contests

Austin, Nicholls, Chesterfield, also seem to be good. There are a few others. The majority of contests though, are probably little more than scams. We've seen some of them posted here.

Some contests may also provide coverage notes of all screenplays submitted. Hey, if you're going to spend money, you might as well get something back. Atl east you know that in this type of contest they bother to read your work.

calabrese

largely waste of time. much better off saving money for trip to la or something else tangible. even the winners of most competitions get nothing (career-wise) - they just get the prize money

i know a real hack that took 3rd in some obscure contest - now he thinks he's a writer. and, my understanding is that most winners, even of prestige competitions, don't go anywhere

i think the new writer is better off getting good coverage. scriptshark will advance a writer's career if they get a consider or recommend - and the chances of doing that are almost 100% if your writing is good - not so in competitions where you're up against thousands of other hopefuls - you might just get an honorable mention or something - which means nothing


zilla

Screenwriting Contests are A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!

I've entered a bunch of these. Made the quarterfinals of one.
My stuff is absolutely first-rate and professional, and I'll put it up against anything written by any established writer in the industry. Ergo, you cannot trust the judging of these competitions. I suspect they are judged by amateurs, if the scripts are read at all.
I've read some of the winning script to these contests, and they were awful.
Anything that gives you incentive to write and write and rewrite is good, but these contests are a boondoggle and a waste of time.

contests

As James McDonald, the novelist would say, writers win contests all the time when someone submits to a publisher or producer and gets published/producer. He'd also say that money is supposed to flow towards the writer.

There are some contests that are worthwhile, yes. Still, if you have a good script and you get it in the right hands contests are not needed.

If you must pay to have someone read your work, a good script consultant is the best person to consult. Whenever your work is good enough, a good consultant can refer you to producers and agents. A personal referral from someone with a good track record likely goes further than most contest wins.

Re: contests

Thank you folks for giving me things to think about, and having taught me a couple of things.

Although I'm not entirely unconfused, I at least have some idea what I am confused about.

Re: contests

I tend to agree with the notion that contests are a waste of time and money. Granted, if you're lucky enough to become a winner out of the thousands upon thousands of entries, and then you happen to be picked up by an agent, and your script is sold and produced. It might be well worth the some 40 to 60 dollars you paid to enter. Otherwise, if you're like me (and the majority of people who have entered contests) and you fork over the exorbitant fee, but receive nothing but another rejection letter, albeit you strongly feel your script is good enough to do well, if not win, in the contest, then save your money. Put your funds towards registering your script with WGA, or placing it on www.inktip.com, or querying more agents so you can sell, and eventually live the dream.

At the very least, that's how I see it. 8)

Kevin
www.kevacho.com

"Write to Live. Live to Write."

Re: contests

Personally, I see contests and festivals (reputable ones) as another way of marketing oneself.

I have found that even making Quarter-Finals in Austin or Nichols can be a good PR campaign when you send out query letters or talk to producers and agents.

I only enter into a few each year and spend on average $150 a year (until I make more money that would make me ineligible for many of the contests, which most have a earnings cap.

This year, with one script, I made Finals (20 out of 1400) at ScriptPIMP, Semi (top 25 in Genre) at Hollywood Internationals, Quarters at Austin and won a minor comp (The prize money paid for my submissions for the year), and although I didn't make the cut with Nichols, I got a note saying it did make the top 10%. All stuff I use when promoting myself to agents and producers.

Did I do well because I wrote a damn good script? Maybe, but also because I sent to comps which I felt fit what I wrote. I research the competitions to make sure that I fit in it. I would never send a horror to Nichols and never send a a huge budget action adventure to Slamdance.

Of course, It's disheartening when another script wins and you think your's is better. But the same could be said when you go to the theater and see Ben Stiller's "Envy," or "Gigli." I have found that many films are made, not because the script is good, but because it had a buzz around it. Contests are another way of creating that buzz.

Then again, what works for me, may not for others. Just giving you some of my experiences.

Re: contests

"Personally, I see contests and festivals (reputable ones) as another way of marketing oneself.

I have found that even making Quarter-Finals in Austin or Nichols can be a good PR campaign when you send out query letters or talk to producers and agents."

Agents and producers are not interested in whether or not you've one a contest . Basically, when you query them, they are interested in what projects you've written (the concept of them).

If a writer with a long list of box office hits approaches a producer with a concept the producer doesn't think will sell, that particular concept will still get rejected.

Don't get me wrong, for those of you who have entered contests and done well with them, my conbgradulations. But my $150 dollars is better spent on other thing. When you're just submitting to agents, producers, etc, postage, paper, ink, brads, etc all begin to add up and over time are expensive enough in their own right. Of course, there are the books the screenwriter has purchased to learn the craft. And heaven forbid the screenwriter has had to use a script consultant.

Re: contests

So contests boil down to marketing.

You want to send to a good market, of which there are few; you want to study the market you are submitting too, which takes time; and you want to send your best script, which may not be marketable in Hollywood.

$150 a year does not sound like a lot to me.

You have to write a lot of scripts to master the art any way.

You have to learn to target your market as far as genre, budget, etc anyway.

While it is nice to know that you should not get a swelled head from winning a contest, I think it would make me feel nice and warm inside to place 20 out of 1400 -- and it would give the kids something to brag about during show and tell.

Heck, the only people who knew it was worthless would be someone in the business -- And I don't live in the 310 area code.

Re: contests

Establishing a career in screenwriting takes talent, time, perseverance and money.

As Justin pointed out, you need to buy software, books, consulting fees, supplies, stamps, etc...

I feel that contests of note should be part of a writer's entire budget. It's not so much that $150 can be spent better elsewhere, but rather a neccesary portion of the total budget a writer allocates for marketing and promoting him/herself. Of course, I wouldn't spend a $1000 of contests and only $10 on books and coverage.

I feel that many contests are a good resource for a new writer. They sometimes provide feedback (like Slamdance) and can give good insight on crafting ones work.

In addition, I found that although producers don't really care if a particular script won a contest or not, having it out on the contest circuit enables many producers to hear about it in the first place and it excite them to read the script if it's a "contest winner." Producers get hundred of query letters a week. Adding your credentials, I feel, plays a part of deciding what to read and when. I believe that if a producer is faced with choosing to read a winning script vs. a non-winning script that weekend, he will read the winner first. (being that both concepts are equally as interesting.)

Agents, on the other hand, are looking for writer's with a proven track record of good, consistent writing. Winning, placing or showing well at several contests shows that to an agent.

Also, press releases, awards shows and parties is another way of getting your name out. I have always felt that it's not only who you know as much as who knows you.

As for me, I got a rewrite job while out at Slamdance. The producer was impressed that I had a winning script and he asked to read my work, which ultimately led to a job. If I was just a poor schlep off the streets and met him at the party, I'm sure he wouldn't have been as impressed if I said, "I'm a screenwriter. No, I not here because I won, but I thought I would come here and network anyway."

To each his own, but I will gladly spend a small portion of my working budget to anything that promotes me and my work.

Re: contests

"Adding your credentials, I feel, plays a part of deciding what to read and when. I believe that if a producer is faced with choosing to read a winning script vs. a non-winning script that weekend, he will read the winner first. (being that both concepts are equally as interesting.)"

Whether or not a producer reads that script this weekend depends on what kind of coverage it got from the script readers, and what the development executive thought.

You can include your award wins all you want to in your query, an award winning script is still going through the readers and the development executive.

An agent or manager with either a decent track record or who is well known to the producer is essentially the only way you can get directly read by the producer (unless you have a personal connection to the producer).

And having a representative send it over has far more weight than a contest.

Re: contests

"While it is nice to know that you should not get a swelled head from winning a contest, I think it would make me feel nice and warm inside to place 20 out of 1400 -- and it would give the kids something to brag about during show and tell."

And if an otherwise good screenwriter puts faith in these contests, and wins nothing, he/she could end up worse off than before.

Another major problem is that most beginning screenwriters probably won't be able to tell the difference between the few legit contests and the majority of them (simple scams).

So all in all, money is being thrown away. $150 a year will cover some script consultants.

A screenwriter is better served by finding ways to make contacts in the industry (ones you don't have to pay for) and by continuing to send out queries.

The contests are actually making quite a bit of money of aspiring writers, taking advantage of people's desperation. Most of the fees likely will not be given to the contest winner.

Re: contests

"a producer reads that script this weekend depends on what kind of coverage it got from the script readers, and what the development executive thought."

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I should have said query and requests. Adding a win in a query letter is more like to get a read request than one that doesn't. It's human nature to want to read what's labelled the best. Besides, having a win enables your name and work to go out in the world. Short of you buying an ad in Variety, what other avenues are best suited to toot your horn and not sound self serving. I know you'll say an agent, but for those without one, a contest is a viable way of getting people to know your name.

"And if an otherwise good screenwriter puts faith in these contests, and wins nothing, he/she could end up worse off than before."

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Get used to rejection. You'll be getting them more often than not.

"Another major problem is that most beginning screenwriters probably won't be able to tell the difference between the few legit contests and the majority of them (simple scams)."

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That's what research is for. You wouldnt send a script to "Producer A" without checking to make sure they are legit? Why treat contests any less.

"A screenwriter is better served by finding ways to make contacts in the industry (ones you don't have to pay for) and by continuing to send out queries."

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That's assuming your in LA (or NY) and can intern for months at a time with no income. Most of us don't have that luxury.

"The contests are actually making quite a bit of money of aspiring writers, taking advantage of people's desperation. Most of the fees likely will not be given to the contest winner."

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Nichols got around 6000 submissions at an avarage of $20 each. That's $120,000. They gave out 5 fellowships at $30,000 each, that's $150,000. Where's the profit? The legitimate contests and festivals make little or no money from the submissions. They have to cover advertising, judges, readers and prizes. Only the scam ones rake you over the coals and get rich from you.

Re: contests

For those wanting to enter contests but don't know which are good vs. scams, here's a short list of reputable ones.

Feel free to add those you feel are good too.

(Not in any particular order)
Nicholls Fellowship
Chesterfield Fellowship
Disney Fellowship
Sundance Labs
Slamdance
Austin Heart of Film
Cinequest, San Jose Film Festival
Cinestory
Scriptapalooza
ScriptPIMP
ASA/Gotham
Creative Screenwriting Magazine
Script Magazine
Fox Searchlab
American Zoetrope ( yearly comp, not website)

Re: contests

You first have to WIN a contest to mention it on your query letter. A writer could enter all of those contests on your list and still WIN nothing.

And then that writer is out of a lot of money that could have gone to a good script consultant who could have not only helped the writer with his/her writing, but could have made personal calls on the writers behalfs to agents or producer.

The money it takes to spend on entering a bunch of contests could indeed be spend on a trip to LA or NYC (where one could arrange some sort of networking).

I've not seen any book (all written by pros) that recommends contests as an essential part of a screenwriter's marketing strategy. Because it isn't.

As for moving to NYC or LA, well, they do have paid jobs in those places, even in the film industry. And honestly, if one is serious about a career in the film industry, one needs to seriously consider going to those places.

Can one have a future as an actor (film, not community theatre) by just staying in Mississippi all the time? I think not? Ditto for any other film industry professional, including screenwriters!

"Nicholls Fellowship
Chesterfield Fellowship
Disney Fellowship
Sundance Labs
Slamdance
Austin Heart of Film
Fox Searchlab
American Zoetrope ( yearly comp, not website)"

The first 8 are pretty big. The Nicholls is held by the Academy who holds the Academy Awards. So if you made a win in that yes, it says the most.

?Cinequest, San Jose Film Festival
Cinestory
Scriptapalooza
ScriptPIMP
ASA/Gotham
Creative Screenwriting Magazine
Script Magazine"

I've gotten spam from some of the ones in this list. They draft towards the whatever category.

Re: contests

Justino,

You keep emphasizing that money can be better spent here or there. I'm saying a writer should have budget in ALL areas, including some (not all or most) to competitions. As for WIN only to add in a query, not true. A "second rounder" in Austin or a top 10% in Nicholls is good press and I would mention it any chance I get. In fact, there have been many instances where a semi-finalist got sold before a winner.

"I've not seen any book (all written by pros) that recommends contests as an essential part of a screenwriter's marketing strategy. Because it isn't."

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I get the feeling you don't read many books on the subject and I suspect you once lost a competition and got jaded ever since. I just pulled two, popular (recently published) books off my shelf and came up with the following.

In "Breakfast with Sharks," written by Micheal Lent (lots of credentials) he not only says competitions are a good springboard for launching a career, he has tips on getting a good read and maybe a win. He devotes a chapter to it and marketing oneself through competitions.

And in one of the biggest selling books on the market today (and should be in everyone's personal library), Dave Trottier says in the "Screenwriter's Bible." pg 228. "Even if you don't win a contest, scripts are often judged by or otherwise find their way to industry professionals. You might make a contact, get a meeting, or even receive an offer. In fact, entering contests can be done concurrently with your other selling efforts." .... " If you win a contest or place, you can insert this fact in the qualification section of your query letter. you have more creditability now; plus have achieved a milestone that can give you momentum..."

NOW,

And honestly, if one is serious about a career in the film industry, one needs to seriously consider going to those places."

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That's just plain insulting to the guy in Maine (or anywhere) who has a wife and three kids and a decent job with decent pay, but wants to be a screenwriter. Where he lives has no bearing on how serious he is to the craft. He can write three scripts a year, send out queries like the best of them, fly out for meetings and enter competitions. Not every newbie screenwriter is straight out of college with no commitments or obligations. And if and when the day comes when he is making more money as a screenwriter than a baker, lawyer, whatever..., then he can decide whether to move to LA or not.

Yes, actors need to be where the industry is. Sure, they can work anywhere, but LA is where they can work more frequently. It's a numbers thing. But again, I'm sure there are actors who would be insulted by you saying they should leave their home and I know the Mississippi Film Commission would be real happy that you advocate that all of their actors (and other crew, writers, etc) should leave their great state. I know actors who work and work well in a dozen states. Not every actor aspires to be Tom Cruise and have a Bel Aire mansion and not every screenwriter wants to be in Hollywood.

Doesn't Mamet live in Oregon?

Justin, you can think what you want and do what you wish, but I feel you give off an aura of negativity in some of your statements that do not support and nurture the others on this board-- which is why, I hope, we are all here. After reading your statments and comments, I always get the feeling that it's "Justin's way, or the highway."

Re: contests

I've got to agree with Justin on this one.

I'm not saying winning or being a finalist at the prestigious contests can't help you get read - but overall it's not the best investment of your "screenwriting budgeted dollars."

A producer I know has told me that from what he has seen - while contest finalists generally have the raw talent to write and their scripts are the best of the bunch of amateurs - the scripts are usually not anywhere near at a par with those written by professionals. They are the best of what they are being judged against, which doesn't mean much in the real world of Hollywood (have you seen the scripts on Zoetrope and Triggerstreet - that's what's being submitted in high volumes). A high placement in contests can often lead writers to erroneously believe their scripts are at a higher quality than they are and then they submit them to agents before they are ready to be submitted because they are 'contest winners'.

As far as where you are. Yes, Joe it's true you can write anywhere. But establishing a career in the business requires more than just writing. In this field it requires networking. It often requires being available for meetings both before and after your script is sold. And for this business, LA is the place where it gets done. If you are serious about a CAREER as opposed to just being serious about writing, then you need to be where the industry is - at least until you establish yourself. If you want to run a ski lodge - you have to live near a snowy mountain.

And incidentally, I believe Mamet launched his playwriting career while he was living in Chicago at the Steppenwolf Theater Company. His success at writing plays led to his screenwriting and directing career. He was already established before he wrote his first Fade In: