v.o. and o.s.; confused

Status
Not open for further replies.

FJ and G

I've read some conflicting stuff on these.

In my scene, I have a sportscaster who is present in the scene but not in the scene, so what do I use?

I'll clarify.

He's present in the stadium during a football game, giving the announcements but the camera never shows him, yet he is there in the scene, just not shown.

We can hear him calling the plays, however, on radios that some of the fans are listening to as they watch the game.

I'm so confused, please help.
 

RobZombie1972

uhm...okay, i´ll try to help you.

i guess the one of the moments you use the VO is when you have a narrator or something.

if we don´t see the sportscaster on screen but he´s is in it, its a OS.

you can use this one in a montage...tip: study some sport scripts - there are tons of examples.
 

Writing Again

If he is not shown it would seem he is off screen.

If he is announcing is it over loudspeakers? If so it would seem to me that should be noted.

Is the identity of the sportscaster important? If it is then more care should be taken, if not then why make an issue of it?

The sportscaster blares over the loudspeakers.

SPORTSCASTER

And so and so did such and such just before...
 

dpaterso

I echo what's been said.

If the sportscaster isn't right beside us -- i.e. if we're not sitting with him in the commentary box watching the game with him -- or if any electronic transmission or distortion is involved, then he's (V.O.)

If we're beside him in the commentary box while he's talking but we don't see him then he's (O.S.)

-Derek
-----------------------​
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
 

SimonSays

Different people have different understandings of what should be used where.

There are so many permutations of when you hear and do not see a character.

I am not getting dragged into this debate again. Once was enough for me.

BUY A BOOK ON SCREENPLAY FORMATTING
READ IT
DO WHAT IT SAYS

Gobble, gobble
Simon
 

kojled

usually, if char is there but can't be seen (like in another room) it's OS.

i have a shot where camera is on the char but they can't be seen because it's pitch black (where they are but light in other part of shot) - this is VO because, obviously they are not 'off screen'

z
 

SimonSays

FJ - Don't flip a coin on ANY of this stuff.

Invest 19.95 in a good screenwriting book and read it.

I guarantee you David Trottier, Syd Field, Robert Mckee, Lew Hunter know more than anyone you will ever come across on this site.

It's best to get newer books when dealing with technical formatting questions, because technology has allowed writers to do things very simply that were a pain in the ass or not feasible when people were using typewriters.

Things like v.o. / o.s. usage have not changed over time.
 

FJ and G

Simon,

I read formating books and as I mentioned, there's conflicting opinions there, at least from my reading in my specific case.

I'm asking the question of forum members.
 

SimonSays

How do you know which forum members actually KNOW and which only THINK they know, but actually don't know?

If any of the books you read are written by any of the people I referenced above, then pick ONE and follow it. Just be sure to be consistent in your usage.
 

dpaterso

Simon, if you don't know the answer then just admit to it, there's no shame. ;)

FJ & G, I thought the replies were pretty clear. Going again:

INT. COMMENTATOR'S BOX - DAY

Mike and Sally watch the game.

SALLY
Wow, good view! So how come you've
got tickets to the commentator's box?

MIKE
Because I'm special.

SPORTSCASTER (O.S.)
And things are hotting up as we enter
the final quarter with everything to
play for!

(In the above, the sportscaster is physically in the box but he's off camera and unseen -- O.S.)

-or-

EXT. STADIUM PARKING LOT - DAY

Fans crowd around a radio.

SPORTSCASTER (V.O.)
And things are hotting up as we enter
the final quarter with everything to
play for.

(In the above, the sportscaster is not present. His voice is being broadcast over the radio -- V.O.)

-Derek
-----------------------​
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
 

SimonSays

DPat -

The last time there was a thread on this subject - it turned into this huge debate. It was one of my first posts and that's when I realized that trying to out-talk anyone on this board was a waste of time and energy and it was simpler and smarter to just direct people toward's better more reliable resources - because those who are wrong on this board have the same amount of conviction as those who are right.

There are in fact some gray areas on some issues - where the industry standard is unclear. In such cases I suggest deferring to the experts rather than you or me.

I originally learned what I know by reading books on formatting. I have never had an agent or producer tell me I was wrong. So I assume my sources were correct.

If you are serious about being a professional screenwriter and are unwilling to fork over 20 bucks for a book to learn about it, then you are not really serious about being a professional screenwriter.
 

JustinoXV

just write the script and submit it

Yes, sometimes books do give conflict information. In those cases, after reading the books, go with the one that seems most reasonable. Or flip a coin like you said you would.:)

Then write your script and submit it. I could be wrong, but I don't think that V.O. and O.S. will make or break your script.
 

SimonSays

re: just write the script and submit it

I agree Justino -

But if you use o.s. instead of v.o. for actual voice over narration you will confuse the reader - because narration is ALWAYS a voice over.

If you mix it up for a phone call etc., it's not confusing because you have set up through the descriptions, etc. that the character is on the phone.

That's why it is important that you understand definitions of screenplay terms, because it makes it easier to figure out usage.
 

DoubleIT

Re: re: just write the script and submit it

Why do so many people on this site fight over small technicalities like this? I feel as though if the script is good and the reader gets the right idea it doesnt really matter. Do what you think is correct and as long as you are consistent with your usage people will understand. A producer isnt going to trash your script because he thought an instance of VO should have been OS. In my opinion, however, Off Screen means the audio are near by, but cant be seen. The mic in the room could have captured that audio. With a VO the mic in the room could NOT have captured it, thus someone would have to do a voice over later on.
 

dpaterso

The thing is, Simon, these questions are all pretty darn basic. They're not something by which a script will be rejected or sold -- far from it (and of course you know this). But it's hardly worthwhile indulging in lectures over something so trivial. Best to give a quick, helpful answer... and save the lectures for the important questions, which may or may not come later. Come to think of it I've yet to see a question that couldn't be answered simply by reading the huge number of scripts available online. This isn't exactly rocket science so let's not get off on pretending otherwise. And what's the harm in a little "debate" now and again to clarify the best or close to best solutions, exchange some banter and feel each other out? That's what people do; that's what makes them interesting instead of robots or identical clones.

-Derek
-----------------------​
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
 

Writing Again

Re: re: just write the script and submit it

How do you know which forum members actually KNOW and which only THINK they know, but actually don't know?

Well in my case it is easy. I'm a screenwriter in training so I don't KNOW: What I'm giving is the best answer I know based largely on reading the books you suggest buying. I'm really collecting quite an assortment.

When those books give what seems to me to be conflicting advice I do what seems best to me, keep it consistent and place my faith that DoubleIT is right: One or two instances of less than perfect format is not going to make or break my script.
 

DoubleIT

I totally agree with Derek. I just signed up here yesterday but i read a ton of the posts. It seems like too many people here dont understand film, havent studied it much and havent ready that many scripts. Most people can not fire up Final Draft for the first time and write a great script. I think a lot of people would benefit from going to Mikes Script O Rama and reading some scripts (both good and bad). That way you can see what rules were followed and broken in scripts that were sold. I was hoping to find discussions about issues to specific scripts... " I am having a problem with his motivation here" or " Does it make sence that he is doing this". I think a lot of people here need something to argue about (which is good) but the only thing to argue about are these small stupid things. As its been said, most of these problems can be solved by reading a script or a good book on script writing.

I dont mean to be a hater, because I have learned so much from various message boards in the last 5 years, and I am very excited to be apart of this one. I just know we can up the stakes a bit and have even better discussions and improve everyones writing. And I did spend 3 hours here last night reading a lot of good threads. I can already tell i'll be posting here a lot 8)
 

DoubleIT

"you mean drew's script-o-rama, yes?"

Mike, Drew, Bill, Bob... they are all the same :D

But yes I did mean Drew, my bad.
 

William Haskins

cool. i just really feel as though there's only room on the web for one *real* script-o-rama, and i wanted to make sure this mike cat wasn't horning in on drew's turf.

if so, we were gonna hafta roll on that bitch and show him what's up...
 

DoubleIT

"if so, we were gonna hafta roll on that bitch and show him what's up... "

Mike vs. Drew: Attack of the Script Sites.

Just got off the phone with Hollywood. We got a green light :hat
 

JustinoXV

"Come to think of it I've yet to see a question that couldn't be answered simply by reading the huge number of scripts available online."

Some caution here. Some scripts online are not the actual screenplays, instead, someone transcribed a script from watching a movie. Depending on how it was transcribed you can get wrong information about formatting.

Forums like this can good sources of info on things like what books can you buy on screenwriting. The internet is good for looking up agents (WGA), and certain other things.

But there's going to be a lot of conflicting information out there. Particularly in the beginning, you may benefit from having a teacher, mentor, etc who can provide you with one voice.

And though this apparently makes some people angry, internships in the film industry are away to see scripts and how they are done.

And for those who feel so threatened by someone mentioning interning, anyone, I repeat, anyone can get an internships at a prodco or studio. All you have to do is send in your resume and do a good job on the interview.

From the things I've seen commonly debated on internet forums, my internships solved several things as far as I'm concerned.

Scripts are bound with two, not three brads.

You never put WGA or copyright information on the title page.

Being an expert on grammar isn't what screenwriting is about. If you can come up with sellable concepts and structure them properly, that's what's needed. Provided you send them to the right people. Readers are told to look within certain parameters like genre and budget when selecting scripts that they pass along. Everything sent it is still concerned a raw draft (if purchased it will go through rewrites).
 

SimonSays

What Matters

DPat:

"The thing is, Simon, these questions are all pretty darn basic. They're not something by which a script will be rejected or sold -- far from it (and of course you know this)."

Derek -

I couldn't agree with you more. I've repeatedly pointed out that this type of stuff, or whether or not you have a copyright notice on your cover page will NOT make or break your chances. And I've repeatedly been told I was wrong - which I'm not.

I've repeatedly pointed out it is the story, the structure, the character development and the concept that matter. But there doesn't seem to be much interest in those issues on this board.

And on the rare occasion when it does come up, people who have no grasp of those things chime in with godawful, and downright frightening input.

You may see it differently. But that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
 

DoubleIT

Re: What Matters

"I've repeatedly pointed out it is the story, the structure, the character development and the concept that matter. But there doesn't seem to be much interest in those issues on this board. "

Thats exactly how I feel too.I was hoping that this board WOULD deal with these issues. It seems like there are a lot of people on here at very different levels of knowledge. I worry many dont have the baseline knowledge to participate in, dare i say, more advance discussions of screen writing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.