Help for my niece. (please read)

Carole

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Ok, guys and gals, I have an issue here that I desperately need GOOD solid advice for. My niece Ashley is in a very bad way. I am limited in my experience with this sort of thing so I'm hoping someone out there will know some things I just don't have a clue about.

Background on this situation:

My sister lost her first husband and Ashley lost her father to cancer when Ashley was 11. My sister quickly remarried to a guy who had the best of intentions but no follow-through for difficult situations.

Ashley was raised in a very above average income household where everything was handed to her except discipline. She always reached out to any guy, really, for attention since her dad died. One guy handed her a pill and that began her battle with drug addiction. She's been in and out of rehab several times. After 4 years or so of different rehab programs, she seems to finally really be trying very hard to keep her life together. She was in one for a year in Louisiana and that one seems to have been the most dramatic help. She slips sometimes, but by and large, she is doing much better.

She's battled with school. She went for a while and dropped out, her mom and step-dad always paying her way out of whatever situation. She was spoiled. No getting around that. Thing is, now she is hungry and has no clue how to help herself.

She got a student loan on her own to go back to school. She's going every day and only has about 3 months or so until she graduates. Her mom and step-dad have dumped her in a strange town in Florida - FAR from home - where she only has one relative - my brother. My brother is just about over "being there' for her and her mom has now told her that he hates her. That's ridiculous, but now she feels that she has NO one where she is.

Now, they set her up in a nice apartment in a gated community and paid up her rent until the end of the year. She had a job, but when she went back to school they weren't able to work with her with flexible hours so she chose to drop the job and stay with school. I'm torn about that one because she NEEDS school. Her future depends on it. but she also needs to eat.

She called last night, hungry. You can imagine, it broke my heart. I'm sending her out a care package today with food and personal items to help her get by. Beyond that, I just don't know how to advise her!!!

Like I said, she was raised in a VERY privelaged home. But she learned no responsibility and now her mom and step dad have abandoned her. She's like a little lost puppy out there and she's so far away from me that I can't help her on a daily basis. Lord knows I'd feed her every day if I were there. It may be hard to feel sorry for someone who didn't learn how to take care of herself - she's 23. But she didn't learn because her mother never taught her. She bought her things and never taught her how to be a human being on her own.

I'm so afraid that she will fall and go back to drugs out of desperation, thinking she has no options and wanting to escape her reality. I want to be able to advise her but i don't know how without being there. In a perfect world, my brother - her uncle - would be able to help, but let's just say that he isn't able. Emotionally, he isn't able to deal with her problems. She's going to have to help herself.

It breaks my heart. She is a product of financial parenting. Always getting money and things handed to her until they cut her off. They never prepared her for life outside their pockets and now they have abandoned her.

Does anyone have any advice? I don't even know where to tell her to look for part-time work to help her make ends meet until she graduates. I'm fully prepared to send her a care package every week, if necessary, so that she doesn't go hungry. I want her to learn how to stand up and help herself.

I know that there have to be temporary assistance programs in the Cocoa Florida area, but I have no idea what and where. I did find the address for her to go and apply for temporary food stamps. That might help some.

Does anyone have any other advice?
 

KTC

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Hey Carole, I've seen this before and it is hard to see parents not providing a solid foundation for kids to get by in life on their own. They think waving the money wand is enough...then the kids get out their and wonder why everything isn't coming to them for free anymore. They have no concept because they weren't taught one.

I would say that she has to find a job that IS flexible enough. People go to school and work all the time. I mean almost everybody does it. My daughter is in University right now. She is also working. Your niece needs to understand that she has to go all out in order to make it happen. The fact that she is living in the place for free is a lot more than other kids have. Some kids are doing school and working jobs to pay the rent. Your niece is already more than halfway there...getting free living arrangements. She needs to buck up and get a part time job that will work with her schedule.
 

alleycat

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This is out of my league, so I don't really have any advice. Offhand, it sounds like it would be better for her at the moment to be in some kind of group home rather than live on her own. If not, it's only a matter of time before she's back on the drugs. And then, it will be impossible to solve any of the other problems.
 

K1P1

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Can she get a roommate? If someone else were paying rent rent to her, that would be some money to pay for food and would also give her some stability socially. But, it would have to be someone who didn't drink or do drugs, who is strong emotionally. It might be hard to find the right person.

She should go to the financial aid office where she attends school to see if there are any emergency programs if her situation is desperate. Many schools do have some discretionary emergency funds for students to help keep them in school. They may also be able to refer her to a job listing service at the school intended for students.

They probably also have a student counseling office. She should go talk to them to see if there is any organization that can offer emotional/psychological support.

If you feel that she's responsible enough, she could start her own housesitting, petsitting, plant watering business. Especially over the holidays when people travel. She could charge $5.00 per visit, $10.00 if she has to walk the dog, and could do it on her own time (assuming she has transportation). All she has to do is put up notices around her gated community and her college campus - the bulletin boards near department offices are where faculty will see the notices and would be the best places. She could also tell her teachers. Faculty are ALWAYS looking for students to help take care of their pets and homes while they are traveling.


ETA: Another note... If she has no major objections to religion, she should look for a campus ministry program. The pastors who work with students are very understanding about situations like this, and she might find herself a group of students to share a meal with once a week that are a ready made support group. She can be honest about her situation, or she can explain that she has no family for support and is looking for a community that will welcome her. It need not be an evangelical group or fundamentalist church. There are plenty of accepting, liberal Christian chuches. In my experience, the Episcopalians. Presbyterians, Lutherans and Methodists would be good places to start. All she would have to do would be to call the church, ask if they have a campus ministry, and talk to the campus minister about when they meet and whether she could come. Free, free, free, and if she's uncomfortable, then she doesn't have to go back.
 
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dahmnait

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There is some great advice here and not much I can add. K1P1 said just about everything I was going to say. :) Her first stop should be the campus financial aid office. They can not only give her advice and information on the financials and potential work, but a lot of campuses also have roommate directories. If having a roommate is a route she can take.

As for the care packages, she may be feeling a bit lost right now, and your packages may be seen as a lifeline to her. On the other hand, you are absolutely right that she needs to learn how to stand on her own. If you really feel like sending care packages, limit them. Let her know that this is all you can do (to ward off her potentially asking for more.) Set a limit on how often and how long you will send these packages. If she takes the steps mentioned in the posts above, your packages are going to more of an emotional help rather than a physical one. Oh, and when the time limit is up, send her a letter (or letters) instead of a care package. That way she knows that reaching your time limit does not mean that you will just abandon her. Hopefully by that time she will be well on her way to standing on her own and your emotional support will be all she needs.

Good luck with this Carole. She is lucky she has an aunt like you.
 
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Unique

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I remember reading an article in the Tallahassee paper re: college students and food stamps. She's probably eligible if she doesn't have a job. The only sticking point might be her parent's income. If the college isn't considering it the Food Stamp office may not either. It's worth a look.

The campus ministries is a good idea, too. Ours was called the Baptist Campus Ministry but they change back and forth from that to the Baptist Student Union. Even if they can't hand her a bag of groceries they often have potlucks & pizza nights and stuff like that. (Fun, too)

I met a lot of nice people there and it was good to have a place to go hang out. I was 10-12 years older than most of my classmates so 'fitting in' wasn't always easy.
 

robeiae

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Carole, I think you're between a rock and a hard place.

My opinion:

1) Everyone's different and its impossible to say with certainty what is the best way to help her.

2) That said, I would be very careful involving her in hand-out type programs like food stamps and anything else that's of a similar nature (fill out forms and get something). I don't see how showing her other means of avoiding personal responsibility can be a good thing. and let's face it, having your rent taken care of is a big deal. Of course, the real kicker would be to get her to move to a place she was paying for herself, but that's a little much to hope for right now, I think.

3) Staying in school is a good thing, so it's good that she chose to do so. But there must be other jobs out there that can fit her schedule. Most schools have work-study programs, as well.

4) Campus ministries can be very helpful, if she gets along with the people there. Worth checking into.

Anything else I could suggest may or mat not be helpful, depending on her.

Good luck and you're a wonderful person. :Hug2:
 

ChaosTitan

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robeiae said:
2) That said, I would be very careful involving her in hand-out type programs like food stamps and anything else that's of a similar nature (fill out forms and get something). I don't see how showing her other means of avoiding personal responsibility can be a good thing.

I strongly agree with this point. She does need to eat, but she also needs to work for her food, just like the rest of us. Too many people hop onto the food assistance merry-go-round and never get back off.

It sounds like she lives in a fairly large town. Finding a job, even a flexible part-time job, shouldn't be too difficult. If nothing else, there are 24-hour pharmacies (like Walgreen's or CVS) that should be able to work around her school schedule. Coffee shop, ice cream shop, Dunkin' Donuts. It might not be a classy job, but it's an income and that's what she needs. Some restaurant jobs even offer free meals or discounted meals.

Although speaking as a retail manager (and I'm not asking, because it isn't my business) the only thing that could hinder her finding a job is if she's been arrested and convicted of a felony. Some employers are unable to hire candidates with a record. Sad, but true.

My best wishes are with you and your family, Carole.
 

Carole

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Thankfully, she has been arrested once but not convicted of a felony.

Regarding the food stamps, that is coming from the point of view of an aunt whose heart is breaking at the thought of her hungry.
 

CaroGirl

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Care packages are not like handing her money. IMO, if you feel better sending her a care package, do so. You won't be aiding and abetting her irresponsibility and addiction. Be there to listen when she needs to talk, but, bottom line, she's an adult and it's time for her to act like one. If she isn't able to take the straight road, it's NOT your fault, it's hers. People learn through experience and her life-lessons have been delayed by her parents' lack of parenting during a crucial learning period.

Keep being there for her, and I send you and her a boatload of best wishes.
 

writerterri

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Make a list of her options and encourage her to take care of herself with them. If the homeless can eat so can she. The phone book may have some helpful phone numbers and churches are willing to help also with food. A room mate is a great idea, but what ever she does do not get another sober addict in there. I know what I'm saying when I say this. I have major experience in this area.

Humility builds character.

I wish you the best in this area.

Terri
 

kikazaru

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The poor kid - money does not buy happiness for sure. I wonder if you said to her that you are sending enough food for 3 weeks and then told her exactly what she should do in step by step instructions on how to go about becoming self sufficient. It could be that she really doesn't know how to go about it or perhaps doesn't have enough self confidence to get a job. There are always retail stores (clothing might be of interest to her) that are looking for part time help. They rely on students so she should be able to get something that doesn't interfere with her studies.

Tell her exactly what to say to get an application, tell her how to dress and act during an interview. Tell her not to be too disappointed if she doesn't get the first job she applies for. Explain things that you think should be self explanatory because perhaps they won't be to her - eg. tell her that employers expect their employees to dress appropriately, to be on time, to be polite etc.

Then once she is employed, explain to her exactly how to budget her money or send her a book on it (she might like one especially for women) and while you are sending her books, send her a cook book on how to eat on the cheap and how to find bargains - there are lots of books for students on this subject - there might even be something for her city. Keep telling her how great it feels to be self sufficient, but also tell her you are there for her to cheer her on.
 

samgail

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Has she tried the service industry? Serving or hostessing is a great way to earn money NOW w/out having to wait two weeks for a paycheck and the bonus is-they feed you. Hang in there sweetie, you are doing the right thing by letting her know someone cares about her.
Sam
 

Kate Thornton

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Here's a hint: many restaurant jobs are flex hours *and* you get a meal! I lived that way for a while while trying to finish school.

It's so good of you to want to help - you are doing the right thing by caring and by not sending$$. Self sufficiency is one of the most valuable things a parent can give a child - you are lucky to be able to give this gift to your niece.
 

NeuroFizz

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Hi, Carole

I second Rob's comment on your generosity and caring. That said, I'm going to take a slightly harder line, but not a mean one. This girl is 23 years old. At what point is she going to have to face the fact that her situation is due to decisions SHE made? When is she going to be faced with the fact that her future is dependent upon the decisions SHE will make? You can play the parents-bought-her-life-away card, but if she doesn't realize that she holds the hand for her own future, she needs a good dose of reality--more real than what she's had so far. Face it, for having such a pernicious drug problem, she's had a relatively easy go, comparatively speaking.

She needs to know there is a safety net for her, but an emotional net, not necessarily a financial one. Let her know that no matter what happens to her, you will love her and try to help her (emotionally) through her problems.

She needs to know that her family doesn't exist just to bail her out of problems. She has to take some responsibility. If she shows that responsibility (and she is, evidently, by choosing to finish school), it will help earn independence, and independence should be one of her primary goals.

She needs a job of her own. If she is going for a GED, I suspect there will be plenty of time for a part-time job. If she is in college, same, provided she has the ability to do well in her classes.

Nothing should be sugar-coated for her. If you feel the slightest stressor will tip her to spend her money on drugs instead of food, you (or someone) must make sure she stays in some form of intense therapy/counseling.

Finally, and I'm sorry to say this, Carole, but it seems you are still making excuses for her. This is the last thing she needs. Maybe her parents didn't give her the love she needed, but it seems she grew up in a financially-secure household. She's 23. Her parents blame should only go half-way at most. This young lady should look at the person in the mirror and start pointing her finger of blame there right now. Anything less than full acceptance of responsibility at this point will permit an easy relapse into her past predicament.

I guess I advocate tough love, with equal emphasis on "tough" and "love."
 

Carole

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I agree, Neurofizz. I do understand that she has to stand on her own two feet. It's that I am not there to show her how and I am afraid that another failure would land her back into drugs.


It's not fair, really, to anyone. Although I love her dearly, I should not be the one trying to help her learn how to stand up. I want to and I am willing to. But where the FLIP is my sister?!
 

Carole

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ok, now that I'm home from work I can elaborate a little more.

Standing on her own two feet is exactly what I want her to do. It's what she wants too, but she doesn't know how. When she tries and fails, she immediately sinks into a depression. It's not fair to ask anyone to complete a task without giving them or helping them to find on their own the skills to complete it. If her mother never once in her LIFE scolded her for farting or burping at the dinner table or walking around their pool in a skimpy bikini when she was in high school and flirting with her step-dad's co-workers, what kind of other skills do you think she instilled? None. She finally understands that she lacks skills. I'm trying to help.

This is such a precarius time in her life and I SO wish I could physically be there. I'm very fortunate with my boys. Both their dad and I have been pretty darn strict on them their whole lives. The result is that even when they slack, it doesn't take much to get their attention and get them back on track. Ashley feels like she has no one. Definitely not her step-dad and mostly not her mom. They have bailed her out and bailed her out, never once teaching her anything about how to correct her behavior. They never allowed her to learn accountability. Then they cut her off and she is clueless.

This is why it saddens me so much to see kids with everything handed to them and never disciplined. The don't learn a thing. One day they are on their own and mommy and daddy can't understand why they fail or turn to drugs to escape their reality once it finally hits them in the face. They weren't taught how to deal and the only way they know how at that age is to take a pill.

It's a parent's highest duty in life to ensure that the person they brought into the world grows into a capable, responsible adult. It's too easy to hand out money and let things slide in the moment. In time, it usually surfaces badly. As daddy always said, it'll always come home to roost.

When I talked about food stamps for her, I totally understand that it is another handout. I was thinking of the here and now. Food in her belly until she is able to buy it herself. They would require that she look for work, as I understand it, to continue receiving assistance.

3 little months and she is finished with school. It's cosmetology school. Her mom pushed her into enrolling at college right after high school and told her that she'd accept nothing but Ashley becoming a lawyer. All of us knew that was ridiculous, but we held our breath because she tried. You don't take a kid who skipped school every chance she got and then slam her with that type of expectation out of the blue. She had almost no chance of succeeding because her step-dad pulled strings and got her into classes that were very much out of her range. He's on some sort of alumni committee. She failed, they yelled at her and she found another boyfriend with another pill. Then they bought her another car. She's owned more cars in her life than I have. Difference is that hers have all been new.

She wanted to be a cosmetologist. She's good at it. She enjoys it. It's not a lawyer, but by golly she could support herself with it and it makes her happy and gives her pride in herself. If she can survive for 3 more months, she will graduate and be able to take her state boards. I'll even pay for that if it comes down to it.

I'm just floundering here right now. I keep thinking that I can rescue her from that downward spiral. Someone has to help and no one else will but me and my mom, her Nana.
 
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dahmnait

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Carole said:
It's a parent's highest duty in life to ensure that the person they brought into the world grows into a capable, responsible adult.
Well said. My mom grew up with kind of the same problem. Not that everything was handed to her, but rather that she was never taught how to do things on her own. She didn't even know how to clean or cook when she moved out. She worked us like slaves ;) and vowed that we would know how to take care of ourselves. For those of us that were taught these very basic skills, we can forget that they still need to be taught.

Since your niece is attending a specialty school, they may not have the same resources as a general college. However, it won't hurt for her to look into the possibility. At the very least they may be able to give her a list of resources she can look into herself. The food stamps and financial aid can go one of two ways, in my opinion. Either it will keep her dependent upon "somebody" to bail her out, or it will teach her a bit about humility and doing what is needed to survive. A few comments here and there from those that care may help her keep in mind that it is a temporary, emergency fix. If that is in fact the way she needs to go.

You mentioned paying for her state boards. One way to keep her working towards making it on her own is to treat anything you help pay for as a loan. Set up the terms in advance, and treat it just as you would any other obligation. That actually has the benefit of teaching her a bit about handling money responsibly. Hopefully.

It sounds like she is on the right track, and just needs the time to learn the skills to survive on her own. Somebody mentioned books on budgeting, cooking, etc. I imagine that would be a wonderful item to include in any care packages for her.

Sorry this isn't much help. I have no idea about the actual resources in Florida.

Again, she is lucky to have you.
 

CBeasy

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It sounds terrible, but maybe she just shouldn't concentrate on school right now. I had to make the same choice, and I chose to eat and have a place to sleep over school. Now I have a good job and I'm trying to figure out how I can work school in. It sucks, but I did what I had to do. I'm with KTC on the drug thing. I was a huge drug addict until fairly recently. I'm not saying that lightly either. It wasn't "normal" childish experimenting. I had a specific drug that I did a specific way, and I'll just say it was one of the hardest ones out there. I did managed to clean up, and I also managed to keep myself afloat for the most of it. It almost ruined me, but it didn't. My point is that, yes, it will be rough, but it can be done. The most you can do is offer her support. Also, it depends what substance she was addicted to, but I could give you some information on types of substance abuse programs may help her. Also, Florida has awesome student aid programs. Just have her fill out a FASFA and make sure she doesn't get claimed as a dependent. She'll get whatever money she needs. I know people who actually get paid to go to school.
 

Unique

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Oh, Carole. What a heartbreak for you. When someone's been enabled all their life the last thing you want to do is give them more of the same.

But still, if your niece has realized her cluelessness and wants to change and improve herself (and it sounds like she is) it's really not the time to play drill sargeant. Tough love has it's place but it doesn't sound like she's ready for that. Earlier in her life - yeah. Later, maybe so, but in a recovery phase like she sounds to be -

You're in a tough spot and it sounds like she is, too. With graduation only 3 months away keeping her fed and moving forward - that's what she needs to focus on.

Foodstamp programs are administered by the state so rules vary. Sometimes there is even a 'one-time only good deal' type program. It seems like the rules change every year. It might not be a bad thing if it's time limited. As someone pointed out - humility in and when accepting help should be experienced at least once by everyone. It's the root of compassion.
 

NeuroFizz

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I'm going to disagree with you here, Unique. But first, I'm not advocating a drill sergeant, in-your-face type of tough love. I'm suggesting a point-blank, reality and responsibility type of tough love. This young lady has to step away from the past (as much as possible) and realize her future is in her own hands, and nobody else's.

I don't have first hand knowedge of a drug addiction, but I have the closest thing. I was the sounding board for my best friend who, for three long years, battled to get his son off of methamphetamines. My friend was successful, but it was gut-wrenching and heart-wrenching for him (the father). One thing I saw in this time is that to the addicted person, their never-ending series of personal problems related to the addiction create a "please not right now" attitude toward tough help. Unique, you say this isn't a good time to get tough, but these individuals do not have good times in their future either. They learn very quickly how to play those who are helping them, and how to sob out the idea that they don't need tough right now, they need love--tough can come when they are more together. Well, that together never comes. This was the biggest eye-opener for my friend. He finally had to roll up his sleeves and realize there will never be a good time for getting tough if he worried about the day-to-day crises his son was going through, and their impact on his self esteem.

I say get tough (maybe firm is a better way to say it), and do it now. Don't wait for a better time because it is likely that better time may never come. By waiting, you are just playing into the same situation that created this mess with this young lady. And, if you show any hesitation on getting on with the tough stuff, she'll pick up on that and play you like a banjo. It's what these people do. It was the only way my friend's son could live with himself during the depths of his addiction--by playing all of those around him (and playing himself, he will admit now).
 

Ol' Fashioned Girl

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I wasn't going to get involved here. I swore I wouldn't 'cause you know what they say about giving advice.

But NeuroFizz has hit the nail right smack on the head. My niece is a drug addict and he's described her to a 't'.

Listen to NeuroFizz.
 

pconsidine

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Here's the best advice I can offer, Carole -

Take care of yourself.

I completely understand your feelings here, but my bottom line is this: when it comes to dealing with addiction, sometimes all you can do is watch the train wreck come. My brother is an addict in recovery (15 years and counting), so there's a degree of first-hand knowledge here. One of the hardest parts for families of addicts is coming to the painful realization that we didn't cause it, can't cure it and can't control it. If she's going to succeed or fail, she must do it on her own. And while it would hurt you if she went back to using again, there's nothing you could have done to prevent it.

Reread that last part again, because it's important.

If your niece starts using again because she can't figure out another way to deal with the struggles of her life, then anything you could do would only be delaying the inevitable. There would always be some problem further down the road that would be bigger and more difficult.

Yes, send a care package or two. And feel free to assemble some information for her. But it's not our place (yours or ours) to decide what she can or should do to deal with her situation. Maybe she should drop out of school. Maybe she should get a waitressing job. Maybe she should stand on a street corner and sing the "Macarena" until people pay her to stop. No one knows but her.

Take care of yourself, Carole. Because whatever happens, you're the only one you can ever really look after.

Just my 2¢.
 

WackAMole

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My ex is a perfect example of spoon fed. His parents bailed him out of every given situation imaginable..even while we were married. They are relatively wealthy and rather than deal with problems, they paid his way out of them. What did this translate to as an adult?

When I married him he had been working for his parents for years..making excellent money btw..when I left him..he had been fired for embezzling 40,000 from his own parents. He cant hold a job anywhere else because he has no sense of responsibility. He still to this day denies wrong doing and justifies his own actions, (though he admits taking the money). Mom and dad gave him property and a home when i left him (after we had lost everything because of what he had done.)

To this day, he is employed off and on, spends most of his time living on unemployment until it runs out then moves on. He has this uncanny knack to literally charm anyone into giving him money..he is an unbelievable manipulator..but what he is not..is a decent, hardworking human being with a deep sense of self respect.

He will miss out on that sense of pride you get when you accomplish something great, he will never hold a job nor have pride in his work...he will spend his life sponging from everyone around him and feeling no remorse for never repaying his debts. His children will understand someday what he is..though they will love him just because hes "dad" he will never have their respect..my 13 year old is already beginning to understand his patterns of behavior.

The best thing anyone could have done for him at some point in his younger life would have been to say no. Consequence is a good teacher. Having fairly well off parents myself, I can now look at them and understand. I now know why they said no sometimes. Had they not been as "tight" as i sometimes felt they were, I could have been just like my ex.

The best thing you can give her, is encouragement. There are times in everyones life when we think we cant make it, but OMG how great is the feeling when you realize you beat the odds! Knowing someone loves you and cares about you is all you really need. Encourage her, tell her constantly she can do it, but be careful to cross the line and give more than you should. She needs to learn too. Spoon fed kids learn at a young age to manipulate..they dont mean to, it just comes naturally and they are VERY good at it..I was married to the dude for 13 years..it wasnt until I was divorced and on my own that I realized I never knew him at all.
 

Unique

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NeuroFizz said:
I'm going to disagree with you here, Unique. But first, I'm not advocating a drill sergeant, in-your-face type of tough love. I'm suggesting a point-blank, reality and responsibility type of tough love. This young lady has to step away from the past (as much as possible) and realize her future is in her own hands, and nobody else's.

You can disagree with me anytime, Neuro. I'm only right 98% of the time, you know. :D

That said - I'd guess it would depend on where this girl is on her recovery road: Has she hit bottom and on her way up or is she trying to avoid hitting the bottom. My .02 - if she's on her way up, limited help; if she's avoiding what needs to happen, let her fall.

No one really 'knows' but her - Carole only knows what she sees. That's why I said it's a hard place for her (Carole) to be. But I do know when people are trying, real and truly trying to improve themselves and all they get is condemnation and 'oh, well - figure it out' it can push them right back where they were.

There isn't anything more ugly than reaching out your hand for help and having it get bitten.