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billythrilly7th
11-05-2006, 03:36 AM
Just hours away.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2629163


BAGHDAD, Iraq*Nov 4, 2006*(AP)ó*Iraq's prime minister on Saturday urged his countrymen to accept the verdict against Saddam Hussein without violence, then in the next breath declared that the former dictator must get "what he deserves" with the decision that could send him to the gallows.

May ye be judged thou art thou judgeth thee.

'Nuff said.

SC Harrison
11-05-2006, 09:05 AM
I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this, but either way the verdict goes there will be a s#!tstorm in Baghdad.

If he gets hammered with a heavy sentence (death, maybe?), the Baathists in the Sunni ranks will try to stir up as much trouble as they can.

If he gets a light sentence...I don't even want to think about what will happen then. The Shia will tear that city apart.

billythrilly7th
11-05-2006, 09:15 AM
You're probably right.

It will make the Rodney King verdicts look like a "we ran out of hot dogs" 4th grade cafeteria riot.

I.Got.Nothing.

Or maybe that was okay. I don't even know if it's actually metaphorically lining up properly. Maybe it is. Weird.

Thanks,
Tipsy Thrilly

dclary
11-05-2006, 09:35 AM
WE'RE OUT OF HOT DOGS?!!?


Oh, whew. Flashback.

I'm ok now.

blacbird
11-05-2006, 10:15 AM
It's hard for me to imagine him not getting a death sentence, let alone not being convicted. And it's equally hard for me to imagine, as Harrison says, that there won't be a major increase in sectarian violence, either way. And there isn't a damn thing we can do about it except to get more of our troops killed and maimed in the process.

caw

dclary
11-05-2006, 10:24 AM
And it's equally hard for me to imagine, as Harrison says, that there won't be a major increase in sectarian violence, either way.

This is what I don't get. Why are secretaries so violent over there?

billythrilly7th
11-05-2006, 01:44 PM
The verdict is in.

It's with a heavy heart that I let you all know that Saddam Hussein, the Butcher of Baghdad, has been found guilty and has been sentenced to death by hanging.
:(

First Tookie and now Saddam.

It's a dark day.

billythrilly7th
11-05-2006, 02:58 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The Iraqi High Tribunal on Sunday sentenced former President Saddam Hussein and two other defendants to death by hanging for a brutal crackdown in 1982 in the Shiite town of Dujail.

Iraqis, under a curfew in Baghdad, spilled out onto the capital's streets in celebration of the verdict, news footage showed.

Enjoy, Iraqis. Enjoy.

ETA: Man, that Karl Rove is good.

billythrilly7th
11-05-2006, 03:12 PM
After the verdict was read, a trembling Saddam yelled out, "Long live the people, and death to their enemies. Long live the glorious nation, and death to its enemies!"

He initially refused Chief Judge Raouf Adbul-Rahman's order to rise to hear the verdict and sentence. Two bailiffs lifted Saddam to his feet, and he remained standing but turned to one guard, telling him to stop twisting his arm.

Saddam WAS trembling.

I just saw the videotape and because I'm the biggest softy or empathetic hump on the planet, I actually felt bad for the guy.

What is wrong with me.

Hmmmmmf.

I guess it's just sad to see any human shaking and trembling when it's time to pay the piper for their deeds.

Oh well.

I'm sure I'll get over it.

Project nachonaco
11-05-2006, 05:33 PM
Yeah, baby!

Although I'd MUCH rather slather him in BBQ sauce and throw him to a hiney-load of rabid wolves, but.....I won't be able to sentence people to that for about another 20 years. :D

WDS
11-05-2006, 07:02 PM
I feel sorry for him in the sense of I don't paticularly like to see anyone die, but so it is. I at least hope he gets a good hangman and a long enough drop so his neck is broken on the fall. If they must die. I don't want anyone to die a slow death.

SC Harrison
11-05-2006, 07:02 PM
ETA: Man, that Karl Rove is good.

Yes, he is. Considering the fact that this trial officially adjourned on July 27, having the verdict hit the front pages over three months later on the day before mid-term elections is amazing. Or not.

The plan is almost complete. Now, if he can just get his pals in the oil companies to make a few phone calls, we may be paying under $2.00 a gallon when we go to the pumps tomorrow and Tuesday. I filled my mom's tank with $2.09 gas yesterday, so we're close enough that it won't look like a political manipulation.

But...there's gotta be something else. Something he can spring tuesday to ice the cake, like a foiled domestic terror plot, or the revalation of a leading Democrat's taste for underage lesbian nazi hookers (I just watched UHF the other day).

eldragon
11-05-2006, 07:21 PM
I'm shocked! I really thought they'd let him walk.

Surely he'll get a reality show and a book deal before he has to leave us.
No? Not this time?

emeraldcite
11-05-2006, 07:44 PM
I bet Bush will have a speech that includes some kind of rhetoric that includes "the world is a safer place without Saddam Hussein."

Which isn't really true...

English Dave
11-05-2006, 09:58 PM
He may die, he may not. The important thing is that he stood trial.

Haggis
11-05-2006, 10:06 PM
Are they only going to hang him once?

TheGaffer
11-05-2006, 10:24 PM
It will make the Rodney King verdicts look like a "we ran out of hot dogs" 4th grade cafeteria riot.

You ever been involved in one of those hot-dog riots? Clary's reaction is instructive here.

English Dave
11-05-2006, 10:39 PM
I have difficulties with the Death Penalty. In Iraqi law there is an automatic right to appeal. To be honest I'd have much preferred Saadam died in the same gun battle as his sons rather than being dragged out of a hole.

That would have been a much neater third act.

Jean Marie
11-05-2006, 11:10 PM
Saddam dead or alive doesn't change much of anything, really. Not unless he gets hanged and Rummy gets tossed to the wolves...then you'd be talkin' progress, in my book.

Otherwise, status quo.

SpookyWriter
11-06-2006, 12:34 AM
I have difficulties with the Death Penalty. In Iraqi law there is an automatic right to appeal. To be honest I'd have much preferred Saadam died in the same gun battle as his sons rather than being dragged out of a hole.

That would have been a much neater third act.I'd rather he swing from a tree so people can see his last twitch, and hopefully his body will be too much weight for the rope and his head will pop off.

English Dave
11-06-2006, 12:37 AM
I'd rather he swing from a tree so people can see his last twitch, and hopefully his body will be too much weight for the rope and his head will pop off.

Nah. Too much. Led off in chains with the heroine kissing the misunderstood hero. Perfect.

eldragon
11-06-2006, 12:37 AM
But in the meantime, Spooky, I have to say that Saddam looks sharp as heck in that designer suit.

It's more becoming than the fatiques he used to favor.


Ah, so the death watch continues to make sure that he can't kill himself, which has to be one of the dumbest rules ever.


Anyway, the verdict goes right to appeals court.


As I said : is there a person alive who actually thought he might go free? I don't think so. If he were found not guilty, what would that imply to all the Americans who have lost their loved ones in this war?

dclary
11-06-2006, 01:02 AM
I'd rather he swing from a tree so people can see his last twitch, and hopefully his body will be too much weight for the rope and his head will pop off.

That would be so cool!

/dave, who's glad his head didn't pop off when he joined the Brendan Frasier/Mel Gibson club.

billythrilly7th
11-06-2006, 01:17 AM
I bet Bush will have a speech that includes some kind of rhetoric that includes "the world is a safer place without Saddam Hussein."

Which isn't really true...

Don't forget that Saddam's goal was to get the sanctions lifted and to eventually reconstitute all his programs.

"Our weapons programs science will remain in our brains."
Iraqi Scientist

Saddam was in bed with the Russians and French to do just that and lord knows what he would be capable of if that were to occur.

It wasn't just about the WMD's we thought he had. It was also about the WMD's of the future.

"The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."
Dr. Phil

I feel better LONG term with Saddam gone. Sometimes you have to go out on a limb to get to the fruit or a quote from a great movie..Roadhouse..

"Things will get worse before they get better."

Thank you.

"We will remove all dictators from power, across this planet, that won't result in the earth plunging into nuclear winter."
William H. Thrilly 7th
Inaugural Speech
01/24/25

English Dave
11-06-2006, 01:21 AM
Don't forget that Saddam's goal was to get the sanctions lifted and to eventually reconstitute all his programs.

"Our weapons programs science will remain in our brains."
Iraqi Scientist

Saddam was in bed with the Russians and French to do just that and lord knows what he would be capable of if that were to occur.

It wasn't just about the WMD's we thought he had. It was also about the WMD's of the future.

"The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."
Dr. Phil

I feel better LONG term with Saddam gone. Sometimes you have to go out on a limb to get to the fruit or a quote from a great movie..Roadhouse..

"Things will get worse before they get better."

Thank you.

"We will remove all dictators from power, across this planet, that won't result in the earth plunging into nuclear winter."
William H. Thrilly 7th
Inaugural Speech
01/24/25

Now I can sleep soundly.

eldragon
11-06-2006, 08:46 PM
When I see the pictures of some Iraqi's cheering, I wonder if they know how long it might take before Saddam is hung?

Appeals, etc. He might die of old age before he's executed.

robeiae
11-06-2006, 09:11 PM
When I see the pictures of some Iraqi's cheering, I wonder if they know how long it might take before Saddam is hung?

Appeals, etc. He might die of old age before he's executed.Remember, he's been sentenced under Iraqi law:

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/focusoniraq/2006/November/focusoniraq_November23.xml&section=focusoniraq

Fallen Iraqi leader Saddam Husseinís sentence will be automatically reviewed by an appeals panel if he is convicted on Sunday of war crimes and sentenced to death or life imprisonment.

If these judges find grounds to question the judgment, Saddam will face another trial. If not, the sentence imposed this weekend by the Iraqi High Tribunal will stand and be carried out within 30 days.

billythrilly7th
11-06-2006, 10:51 PM
Remember, he's been sentenced under Iraqi law:


Exactly.

Which we should seriously conisder adopting in this United States when it comes to the death penalty.

aghast
11-06-2006, 11:57 PM
sadam is hung? that explains a lot - but yeah it will be a while before hes hanged - so whos next, kim chong il...

eldragon
11-07-2006, 12:19 AM
I'm sure Saddam is hung, but they're going to hang him anyway.

And in 30 days, apparently.

dclary
11-07-2006, 01:26 AM
I'm not sure why I'm surprised, but the New York Times came out in favor of sparing Saddam's life today.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/06/061106131346.my2qwtpm.html

Godfather
11-07-2006, 10:29 PM
i agree mainly with saddame being hung. but it doesn't seem right that america should issue the sentence.

correct me if i'm wrong, but this is how i understand matters.

when saddame was fighting iran (americas enemy), america supported him. and all the inhumane business was tolerated. it was tolerated until saddame was no longer any use to the americans.... right?

English Dave
11-07-2006, 10:42 PM
i agree mainly with saddame being hung. but it doesn't seem right that america should issue the sentence.

correct me if i'm wrong, but this is how i understand matters.

when saddame was fighting iran (americas enemy), america supported him. and all the inhumane business was tolerated. it was tolerated until saddame was no longer any use to the americans.... right?

Stop changing the subject! This is about whether Saddam is hung or not. I think he probably is.

eldragon
11-07-2006, 10:54 PM
i agree mainly with saddame being hung. but it doesn't seem right that america should issue the sentence.

correct me if i'm wrong, but this is how i understand matters.

when saddame was fighting iran (americas enemy), america supported him. and all the inhumane business was tolerated. it was tolerated until saddame was no longer any use to the americans.... right?

In a nutshell.


Nevermind the fact that our war over there has killed more civilians then he ever did.

billythrilly7th
11-07-2006, 11:12 PM
Nevermind the fact that our war over there has killed more civilians then he ever did.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I love when people just accept ANYTHING that comes out as fact.

"Report shows that 10 Million People Have Been Killed in Iraq!!!"

"A new Maryland University/Oxford study shows that by calculating the birth rate of Arabian horses during Saddam's era compared with the rate during the American occupation that 10 million Iraqis must have died during the occupation. This number was reached by a random sampling of Iraqi households who were trusted to give accurate information despite their hatred for America. The horse factor to death factor is determined by the common knowledge that if horses are being born their must be people around to have bred them."

Next day....

"Bush has killed 10 million Iraqis!!!"

lol...

Run by American and English PEACE activists....

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

A little more in touch with reality than the "random sampling of Iraqi households multiplied with the X Factor divided by villages X square miles of Irai land" routine.

Survey Guy: Hi, I'm calling to see how many dead people you've had in your family.
Iraqi Woman: (to husband) They want to know how many dead people in our family. (in background) Too many! Death to America!!(to husband) What should I tell them?(in background) Too many...uh....uh.....12!
Survey Guy: Hellooo.
Iraqi Woman: 12 dead!! At the hand of America.
Survey Guy: Thank you, have a nice night.

Oh yeah...real reliable data those random samplings of Iraqi households x bla bla bla

TheGaffer
11-07-2006, 11:13 PM
I'm not sure why I'm surprised, but the New York Times came out in favor of sparing Saddam's life today.

Did you even read it, man. here's the relevant statement:


At least, it should defer the carrying out of any death penalty long enough to allow the completion of a second trial, in which Mr. Hussein is charged with ordering genocidal massacres against the Kurds.

That's not exactly "sparing" his life. And actually, I do disagree with it -- we got Al Capone on tax fraud, after all -- and I think he should die. But it's not as if they argued for clemency. They argued for trying him again to show Iraqis that he deserves not just that, but more than that.


Which we should seriously conisder adopting in this United States when it comes to the death penalty.

Clearly you're only referring to athletes who choke in the playoffs, right?


And that random sampling figure was clearly nonsense, Billy. 600,000? No. It's not that much.

But it's a hell of a lot more than a nation should have to deal with. At least 50,000. Probably 150,000. That's a ton of people. The Riverbend blogger (she's an Iraqi who still lives there) talks of how there is nobody left in the country who hasn't had to deal first-hand with the death of a close friend, cousin, immediate family member and the like.

English Dave
11-07-2006, 11:24 PM
But it's a hell of a lot more than a nation should have to deal with. At least 50,000. Probably 150,000. That's a ton of people. The Riverbend blogger (she's an Iraqi who still lives there) talks of how there is nobody left in the country who hasn't had to deal first-hand with the death of a close friend, cousin, immediate family member and the like.

You are forgetting Gaffer that these people have huge families and breed like rabbits. What they consider a close friend, cousin or near relative we'd consider a leaf stem on the family tree.

I'd guess there are no more than a hundred actual casualties. It's just that they are all related to those questioned.

To suggest otherwise is clearly liberal propaganda and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably one of those aggitators who thinks Vietnam is a real country.

billythrilly7th
11-07-2006, 11:25 PM
And that random sampling figure was clearly nonsense, Billy. 600,000? No. It's not that much.

But it's a hell of a lot more than a nation should have to deal with. At least 50,000. Probably 150,000.

I would say that range is a very fair estimate.

And yes, it's a shame that the Iraqi people after having to have been led by a butcher for 30 years are still not living in peace.

How many will die if America leaves?

Once again, if I hear a democrat say "If America leaves, I sincerely believe that the violence will stop" I'll listen and try and understand why they believe that and really weigh that option.

If us leaving, means the violence stops and the Iraqis live in peace, then let's go.

I don't see it.

And if we leave means 100,000's and maybe millions will be slaughtered in some genocidal civil war, then we have to stay until we figure this thing out. Whether it's a democrat or repub who gets the job done, makes no difference to me.

TheGaffer
11-07-2006, 11:30 PM
Once again, if I hear a democrat say "If America leaves, I sincerely believe that the violence will stop" I'll listen and try and understand why they believe that and really weigh that option.

Whoa, whoa. Point me to someone who said that. I've never heard it. I don't think anyone is so stupid to think that's the case. Clearly there's a lot of people shooting at us, and a few of them might stop. But yes, they will keep shooting at each other.

But that still sounds like a straw man to me, Billy.

Wait. I just reread your message. You're saying "If" someone thinks that. Never mind, in the words of Emily Litella.

I do wonder, however, whether we are in any way really tamping down the violence that exists, not with 3000+ Iraqis dying every month.

eldragon
11-07-2006, 11:58 PM
Run by American and English PEACE activists....


you say that likes it's a bad thing.

dclary
11-07-2006, 11:59 PM
Oh yeah...real reliable data those random samplings of Iraqi households x bla bla bla

These are the same survey procedures that got Knight Rider taken off the air. :(

billythrilly7th
11-08-2006, 12:12 AM
These are the same survey procedures that got Knight Rider taken off the air. :(

Now, I'm angry.

billythrilly7th
11-08-2006, 12:17 AM
you say that likes it's a bad thing.

A. Yes IMO a lot of the time..but...
B. I emphasized to show that that("word appears twice, do you want to delete?" NO!! Billy angrily hits CANCEL) website is not some right wing outfit. It's run by left wingers. PEACE activists.


I just find it amusing that the people who like to tout the Iraqi civilian death numbers don't seem to care that if we leave those Iraqi civilian death numbers, by most accounts, will skyrocket to genoicidal numbers.

It just doesn't compute.

You either care about the Iraqi civilians or you don't.

I just don't get it.

But like I said, if a democrat can convince me that leaving would somehow slow and ultimately stop the violence then of course, let's go.

But the "Iraqis are dying, so horrible!, but let's leave even though that means hundreds of thousands more will be slaughtered!" democrat is something I'll never understand.

TheGaffer
11-08-2006, 01:00 AM
I just find it amusing that the people who like to tout the Iraqi civilian death numbers don't seem to care that if we leave those Iraqi civilian death numbers, by most accounts, will skyrocket to genoicidal numbers.
Well, for one, we don't know that. We are at pretty high chaos level numbers to begin with. I'm not sure. I do believe, however, that we do have to consider American interests as well, and irreparably damaging our military and standing in the world will not serve us or the rest of the world well in later years when there are other potential humanitarian problems.

I do see your point though -- it's hard to just say "let's leave." But saying "Let's just stay" isn't much of a solution either. We've got to get the major parties to come to some kind of reasonable solution that reduces the violence by a significant level, somehow. And then we should leave.

English Dave
11-08-2006, 01:01 AM
I just find it amusing that the people who like to tout the Iraqi civilian death numbers don't seem to care that if we leave those Iraqi civilian death numbers, by most accounts, will skyrocket to genoicidal numbers.



Yuh think? We create a hugely unstable situation and then blame the population for the instability? Yeah Saddam was a crackpot dictator, but don't deflect what is happening now because of our intervention and your sudden love for the Iraqi common man from the fact it was an ill thought out idea to invade Iraq for no particular gain.

billythrilly7th
11-08-2006, 01:36 AM
I do see your point though -- it's hard to just say "let's leave." But saying "Let's just stay" isn't much of a solution either. We've got to get the major parties to come to some kind of reasonable solution that reduces the violence by a significant level, somehow. And then we should leave.

Agreed.

And there is a solution. It's out there. It's like a baseball strike. There is an agreement that can be made TODAY before the strike. It's the same agreement that will be made 54 days into the labor strike.

Same thing with Iraq. The solution is in the ether.

We need to grab it and implement it.

ASAP.

Thank you.

billythrilly7th
11-08-2006, 01:40 AM
Yuh think? We create a hugely unstable situation and then blame the population for the instability? Yeah Saddam was a crackpot dictator, but don't deflect what is happening now because of our intervention and your sudden love for the Iraqi common man from the fact it was an ill thought out idea to invade Iraq for no particular gain.

While you keep living in the past my friend, I'll keep working with sincere people from across the aisle, like Gaffer, to come up with a solution for the present.

Thank you.

English Dave
11-08-2006, 02:08 AM
While you keep living in the past my friend, I'll keep working with sincere people from across the aisle, like Gaffer, to come up with a solution for the present.

Thank you.

Ahhhh Peter!

I admit I am a Lois fan.

Unfortunately real life ain't a cartoon.

greglondon
11-08-2006, 02:14 AM
I just find it amusing that the people who like to tout the Iraqi civilian death numbers don't seem to care that if we leave those Iraqi civilian death numbers, by most accounts, will skyrocket to genoicidal numbers.

I know lifers in the military who say a lot of the fighting is simply because we're there as a foreign occupying army and say pulling out is the lesser of two evils at this point: Stay in an endless quagmire, pull out and at least we won't be be an recruiting poster for more violence. Everyone does know that the military planned this invastion three times, right? 1991, 1999, 2003, and each time they came back with the same thing: 400k troops. several years occupation. high probability of civil war. So we go in with 100k troops and get a complete mess. Unlike those folks who still cling to magical thinking, WISHING for victory doesn't work. It's not a matter of WILLPOWER, its a matter of grunts on the streets keeping the peace. And we don't have enough grunts to enforce the peace. Every plan for invasion explains that in plain detail. We have one-fourth the needed firepower. Saying there will be more deaths if we withdraw assumes the magical thinking against everythign that every military plan has said: we don't have enough troops.

English Dave
11-08-2006, 02:32 AM
I know lifers in the military who say a lot of the fighting is simply because we're there as a foreign occupying army and say pulling out is the lesser of two evils at this point: Stay in an endless quagmire, pull out and at least we won't be be an recruiting poster for more violence. Everyone does know that the military planned this invastion three times, right? 1991, 1999, 2003, and each time they came back with the same thing: 400k troops. several years occupation. high probability of civil war. So we go in with 100k troops and get a complete mess. Unlike those folks who still cling to magical thinking, WISHING for victory doesn't work. It's not a matter of WILLPOWER, its a matter of grunts on the streets keeping the peace. And we don't have enough grunts to enforce the peace. Every plan for invasion explains that in plain detail. We have one-fourth the needed firepower. Saying there will be more deaths if we withdraw assumes the magical thinking against everythign that every military plan has said: we don't have enough troops.

See.....you mistake firepower for will power. Firepower should be the last resort, not the first.

Godfather
11-09-2006, 02:11 AM
haha, billy my friend, oh billy!

you're backing up your claims of people making up nonsense by making up nonsense yourself.

fight fire with fire, my friend. right on.



and i say hang 'im.

billythrilly7th
11-09-2006, 02:17 AM
haha, billy my friend, oh billy!

you're backing up your claims of people making up nonsense by making up nonsense yourself.

fight fire with fire, my friend. right on.



and i say hang 'im.

Using the QUOTE mechanism is your friend, Godfather.

It makes it easier for people to know what the heck you're talking about.
:)

Godfather
11-09-2006, 03:03 AM
aw, i like to be vague.

gives you an edge.