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veingloree
08-17-2004, 09:01 PM
I have read some mainstream fantasy that has some interesting sexual themes. Like the hermaphrodite hero of 'Raptor' and Fiona Patton's matter-of-fact threesomes. General fantasy books I have read have included frank descriptions of sexual responses to torture and even two including rape that resolved with the the victim becoming the perpetrator's romantic partner (much to my distress as a reader). One book had a man becoming the lover of his half brother (hello? incest taboo?)

So it is my impression that fantasy is much more inclusive of various sexual theme than other genres. But I suppose these might be exceptions rather than rule?

I am currently writing a fantasy book which edges gradually towards a hero-hero-heroine menage-a-toi (oh good I can't spell it :ack , you know -- threeway relationship). It isn't explicit but I wonder how many publishers would baulk at that element per. se....

any impressions -- I was thinking in the region of Tor paranormal romance, advaenture is the primary plot, romance the main subplot.

HConn
08-17-2004, 11:25 PM
Luna Books is a new imprint that deals with paranormal romance. I don't have a link for it right now, sorry.

Some fantasy readers are turned off by any sexuality at all. But I wouldn't worry about that. It's a big tent, after all. There are plenty of other readers who love sexuality/sensuality in their stories.

macalicious731
08-18-2004, 12:41 AM
Hey, vein, I think you spelled it right. Just without the accents... :thumbs

ChunkyC
08-18-2004, 04:45 AM
Vein, I read a novel once that was about as sexually explicit as it could get, yet was well written and had solid science fiction themes. You'll see that the people who chose to review it online couldn't get past the sex.

Alpha Centauri (http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380782057/qid=1092782600/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_1_4/702-0643900-7508024)

If the writing is solid and the sexuality not gratuitous, I don't think any decent publisher would refuse it purely on grounds of sexual content.

absolutewrite
08-18-2004, 02:31 PM
Ménage à trois. But I have no idea what it means.

:o

aka eraser
08-18-2004, 10:11 PM
Loosely translated it's a "blending of three" which is apt. ;)

Ravenlocks01
08-20-2004, 01:41 AM
If I were a publisher, I'd refuse anything I didn't think I could sell. And I think they generally do.

SRHowen
08-20-2004, 05:07 AM
I think it depends on how explicit the sex is--and what publisher.

Shawn

Pthom
08-20-2004, 02:03 PM
Vein:

R.A. Heinlein wrote several books that explore all sorts of different sexual themes. Read these if you haven't already. (If you haven't, why not?)

Methuselah's Children (1941)
Stranger in a Strange Land (1961)
The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress (1966)
Space Family Stone (1969)
Time Enough for Love: The Lives of Lazarus Long (1973)
Friday (1982)The Cat Who Walks Through Walls: A Comedy of Manners (1985)
To Sail Beyond the Sunset (1987)

maestrowork
08-23-2004, 08:55 PM
You should always have sex in mind, either explicitly or implicitly. Sex works in a very powerful subconscious level. We all have sex on our mind. I think some of the most powerful writing explores sexuality in a not-so-obvious way. If it's evocative enough, the readers will get it, but you don't necessarily alienate those who refuse to read "smut" (as they put it).

ChunkyC
08-23-2004, 09:04 PM
Good point, Maestro. Sexual tension is present in most interpersonal relationships, even, for example, between heterosexual males in their competitiveness regarding females. This could be shown in something as subtle as the topics a man might choose to discuss with a woman when they are alone together, compared to with another man; or the instinct to show off when more than one male is in the presence of a desireable female. The key there would be to keep it subtle and avoid cliche-ridden behavior and dialogue.

alinasandor
08-30-2004, 05:15 AM
Orson Scott Card uses some very tasteful sexual incounters in his books. He uses a very light touch.

annied
09-12-2004, 07:03 AM
Mercedes Lackey's "Heralds of Valdemar" series incorporate homosexuality/lesbianism in a tasteful manner, too. In most cases, it's integral to the characters, but it's not handled in a heavyhanded way and it's not the sole focus of the story. A good example is the trilogy "Magic's Pawn", "Magic's Promise" and "Magic's Price."

Annie

Nyki27
09-13-2004, 08:08 AM
Hi veinglory, nice to see you here too.

Back in the 60s & 70s, Moorcock's Jerry Cornelius series (which is more surreal/slipstream/Godknowswhat than straight fantasy, had quite an explicit pansexual dimension. So did his Dancers at the End of Time trilogy.

I think the amount of sex that a publisher will feel comfortable with in fantasy depends on how much they're thinking of slanting it towards the teenage market. Alternative sexuality seems to be becoming more normal. I've been reading a collection of stories by Mary Gentle that involves two lesbian relationships, one gay male relationship, and one character who changes himself into a female (magically, not surgically) to bed the man he fancies.

cyates
06-29-2008, 04:59 AM
The degree of sexuality also sometimes seems to depend on the subgenre of fantasy you're talking about. For example, there seems to be a far higher degree of sexuality associated with vampires (not to mention anthologies of vampire erotica, check out Love in Vein for an excellent example), but not as much in the LOTR styled stuff.

veinglory
06-29-2008, 05:12 AM
I think high fantasy is also pretty rife with sex of all kinds, if you keep an eye out for it.

cyates
06-29-2008, 07:23 AM
I think high fantasy is also pretty rife with sex of all kinds, if you keep an eye out for it.

I know there's sex, but the sexuality behind it doesn't seem to be that much of an issue.

Take Wheel of Time. Rand had how many people trying to get in his pants? But what he actually thought of it was more implicit than anything.

StephenJSweeney
06-29-2008, 10:24 PM
I think so long as you're writing it to be erotic and sexy, and it's basically not porn, then you should be okay.

veinglory
06-29-2008, 11:43 PM
I have read high fantasy and sci fi with explicit and extended, titilating treatments of everying up to and including forced sex with a minor (Arlsan) to hermaphrodites (Raptor) and pretty much anything else. It has tamed down slightly in the last two decades but in the middle of last century there was a hell of a lot of high fantasy and sci fi with very diverse and explicit pornographic content. The Wheel of Time doesn't happen to be an example of it--he seem to prefer extended torture scenes.

mscelina
06-29-2008, 11:53 PM
as with anything, as long as a sex scene forwards the plot in some way (meaning it isn't gratuitous) then it's okay.

There are a lot of small presses that publish fantasy erotica if the sexual content is that big of an ingredient. But, I have to agree with veinglory--WoT's sexual content crossed a boundary that most erotica publishers wouldn't have touched with a ten-foot pole.

MattW
06-30-2008, 03:01 AM
WoT had sex torture? I thought that was more Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth?

Wheel of Time's "sexual" materials read like they were penned by a frustrated 15 year old. SoT like a frustrated 40 year old.


Admittedly, I stopped reading both series' long ago.

veinglory
06-30-2008, 03:08 AM
I didn't read much of the Wheel but I remeber quite a long chapter in one of the first few books where a protagonist is rather lovingly tortured.

SPMiller
06-30-2008, 04:17 AM
For some reason, I don't remember that. Weird.

MadScientistMatt
06-30-2008, 04:35 AM
I think high fantasy is also pretty rife with sex of all kinds, if you keep an eye out for it.

When you get down to it, even LOTR itself made it clear that many of the characters had sexual longings. They just didn't discuss such urges in very explicit terms; it was more vague, like Sam wishing he could go back to the Shire and be with a girl back there - he just didn't specify what he wanted to do when he was with her. Nowadays high fantasy can get a lot more explicit if the author choses to.

veinglory
06-30-2008, 04:41 AM
I feel the reverse has occured. Fantasy used to have a lot more explicit material, especially during the late 60s and the 70s, but since about the mid 80s it has become much more rare.

Higgins
06-30-2008, 10:11 PM
If I were a publisher, I'd refuse anything I didn't think I could sell. And I think they generally do.

I agree. But I would add a proviso: If I were a publisher I would refuse anything I didn't think I could spell.

For example "Fellatio"...if you can't spell it, don't get er (or "er/it"?) done.

SPMiller
06-30-2008, 10:31 PM
I agree. But I would add a proviso: If I were a publisher I would refuse anything I didn't think I could spell.

For example "Fellatio"...if you can't spell it, don't get er (or "er/it"?) done.With the way vampires are popular in urban fantasy these days, you have to ask yourself if you can spell both algolagnia and hematolagnia.

Straka
07-01-2008, 01:45 AM
I always thought Fellatio sounds like a character from Shakespeare

O Fellatio, Fellatio! wherefore art thou Fellatio?

Ruv Draba
07-01-2008, 02:25 AM
"Alas poor Yorick! I knew him Fellatio."

MilesGX
07-01-2008, 06:20 PM
I bet there's warriors having sex with werewolf chicks.

Higgins
07-01-2008, 06:24 PM
I always thought Fellatio sounds like a character from Shakespeare

O Fellatio, Fellatio! wherefore art thou Fellatio?

Or the Beethoven opera: Fedlaltio (or something like that)

maxmordon
07-01-2008, 07:08 PM
It's Fidelio