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triceretops
01-05-2005, 03:56 AM
I'm a little leery about throwing out a disaster idea in light of what has just transpired via the drunken upheavals of the Burma plate (may all the God's love and hold them dear), but here goes:

In the fashion of biblical or otherwise Irwin Allen-type world catastrophes, I think I've come up with a new, and possibly unique, global killer, that might take on the complexity and
fascination of the once and still famous MOTE IN GOD'S EYE type scenario. What if one of the pacific subduction plates cracked wide open via a massive quake, creating a crust fracture so vast that a sudden intact of water rushed in to fill up the cavity? Like pulling the plug in a bathtub, a horrendous whirlpool was the result? Of course you would have to account for this massive empty chasm between the floor crust and the mantle, I suppose. Could such a cavity be ripped open enough to intake thousands of cubic miles of sea water?

You would certainly have tsunamis and quake percussions as an after-effect, but is it scientifically or theoretically possible that such a geological incident, such as this, could take place?
I could imagine a very minute drop in sea level, or disruption of the Gulf stream conveyor, perhaps even a slight axial tilt.
Satellite imagery would pick up the phenomenon, as well as ships in the area that would report phantom currents that potentially got stronger until rudder navigation became impossible.

I've seen massive whirlpools documented on programs, but those were of the type where a huge mine caved in and allowed river water to enter. Giant sink holes sometimes have this effect. What about a pacific sinkhole, caused by quake=massive, hungry whirlpool, swallowing cargo ships and liners?

Lots of science here, folks. Physics and marine geology. I'm
into paleontology big time, but can't quite get a handle on this
premise. Does it sound feasible? Any comments?

As for solving this Man Against Nature theme, I propose, in the last chapter, to nuke the bitch's vortex and close the wound. Gak! Maybe that would compound the problem! Ah...subplot!

I dunno. If anybody likes the idea, run with it and tell me how it all comes out. Definitely a problem solver.

Tri

Nyki27
01-05-2005, 11:54 PM
I'm not a geologist, but I'd assume that all that water pouring through the Earth's crust would cause huge volcanic eruptions as well, as a result of water meeting magma. For the rest, I'll leave it to the scientists here.

Pthom
01-06-2005, 04:55 AM
Not a scientist, either. But I think an ocean of cold water suddenly coming into major contact with molten rock would be far worse than an eruption. Imagine a boiling Pacific Ocean! I doubt that would actually occur; it would take too long to boil the Pacific. More likely, the sudden expansion of steam beneath all that water would cause an explosion. Probably greater than any since the last big asteroid hit the planet. I can imagine several results: the earth could crack in two; most of the water in the oceans would be blown into space, taking the atmosphere along; giant tsunamis the height of Mt. Everest could wash away most life forms on land.

In the story Lucifer's Hammer (http://www.sfreviews.com/docs/Larry%20Niven%20and%20Jerry%20Pournelle_1977_Lucif er's%20Hammer.htm), there is a good description of the effect of a comet hitting earth in the pacific ocean...and the aftermath. Again, I dunno, but somehow putting the Pacific Ocean into contact with magma sounds a lot worse.

triceretops
01-06-2005, 05:24 AM
Gak!! Pthom, I absolutely stand corrected! It Was Lucifer's
Hammer that I was trying to reference--not the Mote in God's Eye.

You're also right about cold sea water hitting hot magma or even deep hot crust. There would have to be some type of energetic explosion involving steam, pressure and possible fault fracture, resulting in a tremendous upsurging of volcanic magma, thus preempting volcanic release and God knows what else! Now that I think of it, a simple giant whirlpool would be out of the question, there's too many variables. A domino effect. The most damaging result from this occurrence would be Tsunamis, any way you look at it,
especially if it's mid-pacific. BUT, the ring of fire is Not mid-pacific, unless you factor in the Hawaiian group which are cone-volcanic in origin.

Guh. I've opened up a can of worms instead of fractured fault.

Much thanks for both responses--I think WHIRLPOOL might go right down the drain.

Tri

Pthom
01-06-2005, 05:42 AM
You might enjoy Mother of Storms (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812533453/103-6931687-0627035?v=glance) if you haven't read it already. Here, the villain is a global hurricane.

DaveKuzminski
01-06-2005, 07:33 AM
There are already lengthy splits in the seabed where magma touches seawater. Some are many miles in length and the magma just comes out and forms new bedrock while the ocean floor moves gradually without any major explosions. For the kind of explosion you may be considering, I believe you'd have to have a plate shift of such magnitude that the world would probably be in its death throes.

Pthom
01-06-2005, 08:21 AM
Of course. The current magma/sea water interface is a tiny leak. However, the original question was, in part:

What if one of the pacific subduction plates cracked wide open via a massive quake, creating a crust fracture so vast that a sudden intact of water rushed in to fill up the cavity? ... Could such a cavity be ripped open enough to intake thousands of cubic miles of sea water?

The bold emphasis is mine; I based my suppositions on those ideas. IF (and there are always big IFs in SF) there was a massive quake sufficient to expose a great portion of the mantle to sea water, there is no doubt in my mind that regardless of the resulting explosion, the Earth would most definitely be well on its way to destruction.

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Found the following; thought it interesting.

Mantle
The layer below the crust is the mantle. The mantle has more iron and magnesium than the crust, making it more dense. The uppermost part of the mantle is solid and, along with the crust, forms the lithosphere. The rocky lithosphere is brittle and can fracture. This is the zone where earthquakes occur. It’s the lithosphere that breaks into the thick, moving slabs of rock that geologist’s call tectonic plates.

As we descend into the Earth temperature rises and we reach part of the mantle that is partially molten, the asthenosphere. As rock heats up, it becomes pliable or ‘plastic’. Rock here is hot enough to fold, stretch, compress, and flow very slowly without fracturing. Think about the behavior of Silly Putty® and you have the general idea. The plates, made up of the relatively light, rigid rock of the lithosphere actually ‘float’ on the more dense, flowing asthenosphere!

Euan Harvey
01-06-2005, 02:12 PM
Short answer is ... I don't think it's possible.

Faults come in several different types (http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/earth/tectonics/Tectonics3.html). If you talk about magma being exposed by a massive quake, you'd have to be talking about a divergent plate boundary which suddenly split wide open.

Unfortunately, I can't think if a single good reason why this would happen. You'd have to explain why the crust held together for a long period of time, and then suddenly snapped like an elastic band. Also, you'd have to provide some kind of mechanism that would drive it. At present, divergent p[late boundries are driven by the drag of magma convection cells in the asthenosphere. The thick goopy magma pulls the plate boundaries along with it as it moves. This is going to be another problem for you to explain -- in that you'll have to change the entire structure of the earth in order to drive the kind of sudden movement you'll need.

So, in short, it's not going to happen.

But...

You could think about a supervolcano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervolcano) or possibly a megatsunami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatsunami).

Hurrah! I found a use for my degree!

triceretops
01-06-2005, 06:29 PM
Yea, we have a real expert here! Thanks Euan. Sounds like you're affiliated with geology somehow. My ex-girlfriend is a geologist specialist, topography, and currently works for NOAA, but won't give me the time of day. I think you elaborated even further why this giant whirlpool concept couldn't work. Science is controversy, there's no doubt about that.

If all the pros could agree on the extinction hypothesis having to do with the Cambrian, KT, and the Pleistocene ice age, we would really know what planet killers were all about. That said, I hope we don't ever have another tsunami like the recent one, nor see Yellowstone start the "big bulge."

Euan, what's your degree in?

Stephenie Hovland
01-07-2005, 08:32 AM
Ooh. I like this topic. I try to teach science for middle school age students. We're hitting this subject now in one of the classes.

Euan Harvey
01-07-2005, 08:39 AM
@ triceratops

Geology. Utterly useless in my present job (English teacher) :D but it was very interesting when I was studying it. When Jurassic Park came out, one of our paleontology lecturers took us to see the movie, then gave us a paper to write on the flaws in it. If you want to get a 19 year old's attention -- that's the way to do it.

Kallahan
01-07-2005, 01:46 PM
THe problem is scale, an earthquake big enough to move that much rock that far would be off the scale. You're talking about quadrillions of tons of rock moving maybe a quater of a mile in a short period of time (literally), the force generated by this would have be greater than the U.S.'s nuclear arsenal. It would, however, be the end of the earth.

Stephenie Hovland
01-07-2005, 07:03 PM
What about a massive meteor or the moon crashing into the Earth? (No, I don't know how that would happen, but . . . ) Something that big would certainly crack the earth's crust open.

triceretops
01-07-2005, 08:42 PM
Welcome Stephenie

In fact a large bollide, six miles in diameter, supposedly gouged a 150-diameter-mile crater off the coast of Yucatan, about 65 million years ago, thus wiping out our dino friends.
No major crust fracture, per se, just a big spoon-sized hole.
I HAVE often wondered what an astronomical impact would do to our moon--knocking it katiwampus. Our tides would certainly be thrown in to upheaval, as well as an effect on the earth's magnetic pole. It has been said, that if not for our moon, keeping our earth in rotational check, there would be no life on earth. (recent t.v. program)

Pthom
01-08-2005, 03:59 AM
Hmm. I'm pretty sure the Earth wouldn't stop spinning if suddenly there was no moon. And, I'm pretty sure that life would continue. However, I seem to recall reading (in a science journal, not a SF story) that one of the primary reasons life was able to begin on Earth was that there were tides. That the rythmic wetting and drying of the tidal zone is where life evolved.

The magnetic pole(s) is where it(they) is(are) because of the magnetic field produced by the Earth's rotation. The recent earthquake in the Indian Ocean is thought to have altered the axis of the Earth's rotation minutely, a huge asteroid of the size of the one you mention hitting the Yucatan would have at least the same effect, if not a greater one. Removing the moon from Earth's orbit would cause major changes but I doubt it would alter the location of the axis of rotation. As far as the locations of the poles, they change over time. The Earth's magnetic field is fading (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/earth_magnetic_031212.html) and the poles will, perhaps even in our time, flip north for south. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0909_040909_earthmagfield.html#main)

If those links spark your imagination, have a look here. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/magnetic/)

Euan Harvey
01-10-2005, 02:55 PM
Meteors are all old hat, anyway. I still say go for the mega-volcano. Actually, I seem to remember that for a long time the competing theory (or at least one of the competing theories) to explain the extinction of the dinosaurs was the eruption and emplacement of the Deccan flats in India. Basically, a huge amount of basalt and plutonic rocks got injected into the earth's crust and spilled out over large areas of India. It blew huge amounts of CO2 and other nasty gases into the atmosphere, as well as massive amounts of ash, smoke etc.

If you're looking for a planet-killer, that's the one to go for -- especially if it goes off somewhere in the Middle East and wipes out all the oil supplies.

Anyway. ;)

Pthom
01-10-2005, 05:50 PM
If you're looking for a planet-killer...Personally, I think the Vogon constructor fleet (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/vogon.shtml) is the best planet killer to come along in quite some time. ;)

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"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." --Douglas Adams

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Hapsburg
01-10-2005, 06:45 PM
There's not much I can say that others haven't. I tend to agree with the masses on the improbability of this. I'll just grab one point:


You're also right about cold sea water hitting hot magma or even deep hot crust. There would have to be some type of energetic explosion involving steam

Water's reaction to the magma isn't as one might suppose. Presently, there are deep see vents where water is meeting magma. The water at these vents reaches many hundreds of degrees above the boiling point. It does not, however, boil or become steam because of the pressure at those depths. Additionally, that magma in contact with the water is solidifying and becoming a part of the crust.

When you think of this fracture you're suggesting, In addition to the gross causes that would be required, you have to take more into account than just miles of a crack in the crust. In addition to its width, the ocean is deep, and though tsunamis and earthquakes would occur; that crack would have to be created almost instantaneously (as the magma will immediately begin resolidifying) for the temperature change to impact more than just the deep sea ecosysytem. Of course, who knows how that change in the deep sea will effect the rest of the marine ecosystem. You'd also have to accomodate for the thermodynamics of currents. So it seems to me you'd have to have this crack occur in just the right spot, massively and instantaneously, and have a reason for it to happen that makes sense in regards to plate techtonics. That's my 2 cents.

Oh, and one more thing. For there to be a cavity created for the whirlpool effect, that mass of crust that is absent must be replaced somewhere. For instance, if by force two of the plates were pushed apart on one side, they'd be pushed together on the other. It's how many mountain chains were produced. So you'd have two devastating occurrences, the whirlpool,/tsunami on one side of the planet and the rapid and cataclysmic earth quakes and mountains shooting up on the other.

ok, 3 cents.

The plates are massive, too, aside from another planet hitting the earth I can't think of anything that could move that much crust; and we'd be in a world of hurtin long before the crust crack if that happened.

Plus, wouldn't the giant whirlpool only be a danger to what's in the water? You wouldn't have tsunamis because the water would be moving toward the crack. The complete destruction of the ocean's ecosystem aside, I don't know how it would affect us on land any more than our current disasters.

Dang, you made me get out my map of the ocean's floor. It's an interesting and curious proposition at least. (as to the map btw, the mid atlantic fault line looks like your cleanest and most devastating break to me, you could hit the east pacific one too but then its a little more complicated as a story because California falls into the depths of the crack, which certainly would be entertaining) there may be a way to create the effect you are proposing through density principals but with the pressure and deep sea temps in consideration, it's just over my head to even conceptualize. Perhaps a drastic deep sea temperature change, or such a change in the mantle...Hmmm...

Hapsburg
01-10-2005, 07:18 PM
Ah ha! I've got it! Gravity could do it. If per se the orbit of the moon were to slow enough, the moon would start to be pulled closer by the earth's gravity. (at present the moon is slowly moving away from us because of its orbital speed) anyway, if the moon fell closer to earth enough and in the right place, the moon's gravity could create a bit of lift on one of the plates and that would create the effect you're proposing. A massive cavity could be formed between the crust and mantle and the fault line would serve as the drain. Of course the gravity would be pulling on the water and tides too, so I'd go with the California fault line, it goes from ocean to land, if the gravity pulled at the plate in the vicinity of California, Oh yeah, that would jack us up good if that happened...

Now, how to slow the moon's orbit...It'd have to hit something big...

triceretops
01-11-2005, 02:18 AM
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ChunkyC
01-11-2005, 02:41 AM
Y'all are showing why writing speculative fiction is so much fun!

How about a nice sized asteroid zooming in and coming close enough to the moon to move it without actually striking it? That way you don't have to factor in debris hitting the earth. It could be spotted too late and/or be too big to intercept or deflect. Before the near-miss everyone could freak out while scientists argue over what will happen, after the near-miss you let the moon creep ever closer while the politico's waffle and the scientists continue to argue, then the "big crack" takes everyone by surprise.

Pthom
01-11-2005, 10:21 AM
Thinking of global disasters, I just had a flash of sudden recall. I read once, (in an anthology, the name of which and the story title, I've forgotten), a story where the sun goes nova. The main character is a gum shoe or something in Los Angeles; his girlfriend works for, um, well, I forgot that too, but let's say she works for JPL of NOAA or the like (good to have one of the characters know what's going on for expository purposes ;) ). When the sun blows up the western hemisphere is turned away--it's night there. There's a great description of the "dawn"--the entire horizon lights up--and of the reports coming in from the other side of the planet (it takes a little over 8 minutes for light to travel from the sun to Earth). At the end of the story there isn't much the gumshoe and his gal can do but wait for the last sun "rise."

triceretops
01-11-2005, 12:51 PM
Hapi, you might have something there with gravity. I'm wondering what a small body (asteroid) would do if it came it at a shallow and very slow angle just enough to nudge the moon or be captured by earth's orbit. Uhg. That would mean we didn't see it coming, which it nuts, because we have a society that specifically looks for rogue trajectory impact. Forget what its called. Any way it might disrupt the tides for sure and cause massive flooding but no whirlpool effect to speak of. What would happen if the magnetic poles took a gradual or quick flip flop? Since our magnetic field protects us from incoming solar radiation, there would be a lapse, leading to increased radiation, leading to rise in global temp--leading to toasted flora and fauna.

Tri

HollyB
01-11-2005, 11:52 PM
Pthom, was it Inconstant Moon (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/adam.milner/books/inconstant_moon.htm), by Larry Niven?

ChunkyC
01-12-2005, 01:25 AM
That would mean we didn't see it coming, which it nuts, because we have a society that specifically looks for rogue trajectory impact
The folks who do this will probably be the first to tell you that they don't have nearly enough resources to keep an eye on the entire sky, so I think you'll have a plausible scenario so long as you don't wait too long to discover it, just long enough that by the time it is discovered, it can't be stopped.

DaveKuzminski
01-12-2005, 02:12 AM
If it comes from the direction of the sun, it might not be spotted until after it passes by. This actually happened in the last few years. Those are the hardest to spot because of the sun's glare, but those can be spotted beforehand because some have already.

Pthom
01-12-2005, 05:03 AM
Yep, HollyB, that's the one.

Thanks :)

Pthom
01-12-2005, 05:53 AM
What would happen if the magnetic poles took a gradual or quick flip flop?This process, a gradual shifting of the magnetic field, is underway now, actually. The integrety of the earth's magnetic field is 'full of holes' so to speak. One, called the southern anomaly (I think) is near the southern end of South America.

One very obvious result of a shifting magnetic field is that we will observe aurora borealis in locations other than the arctic and antarctic. I doubt that even the absense of the magnetic field would cause immediate damage. Over the long term, maybe. Since the iron core of our spinning planet is the driver of the magnetic field, it won't vanish. There are geologic records that show the field has, several times in the past, flipped. (Euan? Have any info on that?)

Meanwhile, invest in sun screen.

Euan Harvey
01-12-2005, 08:18 AM
Since our magnetic field protects us from incoming solar radiation, there would be a lapse, leading to increased radiation, leading to rise in global temp--leading to toasted flora and fauna.


Already been done, I'm afraid. The book's name was Core (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380711826/qid=1105492637/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-0795330-1691269?v=glance&s=books) and the movie came out a couple of years ago.

Euan Harvey
01-12-2005, 08:21 AM
it can't be stopped.
How would you stop it? [Apart from sending Bruce Willis, of course]

I mean, if you just make it BIG enough, then even if we spot it, we won't be able to stop it.

triceretops
01-12-2005, 09:04 AM
Euan, you're correct about Core. The plot DOES include massive solar radiation disruption, knocking out communications, emergency agencies, and all online utility.
That kind of shoots down the premise of having a massive solar flare, which would in fact cause many of the same problems.
Too bad we don't quite know what dark matter is yet, though
Stephen Hawkins is trying to compose a reasonable theory of
"Everything." I'd like to see what would happen if a chunk of dark matter hit the earth. Of course, that is subject to our speculation of what the other "90% of the universe" is composed of. Whatever it is, it's the universal soup--the micro nano particles that we suspect are there, but haven't identified.

By the way, did you all hear about the upcoming Cassini Probe
(is it?) that is due to land on Titan this Friday? If memory
serves, Titan has got quite an atmosphere, and the probe is designed to find out just what the exact elements are. Stand by for the news--could be some discoveries that might serve
well in a sci-fi book hypothesis.

Killer Tsunami
Super Volcano
Massive Solar Flare
Asteroid Impact (includes comets, meteors)
Earthquakes
Fast Ice Age
Global Warming (fast becoming myth: see Fast Ice Age)
Magnetic Pole Flip
Killer Whirlpool (improbable, lest in a fishing lake)
World Wide Epidemic (Andromeda strain, Twelve Monkeys, Small Pox, Outbreak, etc)
Twisters, Hurricanes, Tornadoes
Alien Invasion

These are all disaster scenarios/global killers that have been used except for my whirlpool idea, which can't make it.
Can anybody think of anything else besides using a combination of the above. Any new speculations? "What if"
hypothesis?

Tri

DaveKuzminski
01-12-2005, 09:13 AM
Yes, here's one that might be new:

Our world's dimensions temporarily merge with those of some other dimension leaving creatures from each on the wrong world with just enough supporting ecology to be more than a temporary nuisance.

HConn
01-12-2005, 12:22 PM
Nuclear war.

Euan Harvey
01-12-2005, 12:58 PM
Our world's dimensions temporarily merge with those of some other dimension leaving creatures from each on the wrong world with just enough supporting ecology to be more than a temporary nuisance.
Half-life. :D

But...

I do like the idea. Maybe you could run a scenario as follows: alien creature gets brought back, somehow escapes into wild. Once there, it has no natural predators, and multiplies rapidly. Kind of like the cane toads in Australia. Maybe it's carnivorous and starts hunting in packs and eating everything in sight. Or perhaps it gets into the sea and multiplies like algae, and ends up choking all life in the sea* (which would mean the end of all life).

*Actually, now I think about it, this also has been done in an SF novel -- but I can't remeber the title now. It was something about shooting tachyons back through time so you could speak to an earlier version of yourself. It got very complicated.

Hapsburg
01-12-2005, 01:23 PM
Stephen Hawkins is trying to propose a reasonable theory of "everything".

Oi...Hawking didn't start with what is colloquial termed "the theory of everything" in physics. Richard Feynman, at Caltech with two other partical theorists whose names i forgot though I think was was John Schwartz developed the first substantial papers on string theory (which was coined the theory of everything), based on Einstein's work and the mathematics of a Russian mathemetician in 1970. The theory, in a nutshell, is an attempt to reconcile the anamolies of general relativity (mass alters space fabric and creates gravity) with those of quantum physics (atomic bonds, radioactivity etc.) through proposing that the fundamental particals of space exist between 6 and 26 (depends which mathematician you ask, I favor 6 for simplicity- our perception alows us 3) dimensions in which the smallest components of quarks (which are those smaller components of subatomic particles) are bands of energy whose motion and behavior is determined by which plane of dimension they are on and resonate accordingly. Hawking didn't get involved till 96 as far as I know when using Einstein relativity and Hawking radiation. He helped discover hints that black holes had thermodynamic properties that need to be understood microscopically. A microscopic origin for black hole thermodynamics and quantum mechanics was finally achieved but they can't apply these theories, or te whole thoery at large to practical lab test. Though it still hasn't mathematically explained hadronic physics, it has accounted for quantum gravity and proved its supersymetry in relation to fermions and bosons but that too was before ol' Hawking tokk up the cause. Genius he may be but prior to 84 he and the rest of the physics community laughed at the whole theory (84 was when the theory hit the mainstream as a cadidate for potentially unifying partcle physics, quantum mechanics and gravity) . That stephen hawking and his dark matter, I tell ya what...


Our world's dimensions temporarily merge with those of some other dimension leaving creatures from each on the wrong world with just enough supporting ecology to be more than a temporary nuisance.

This completely confuses me. A dimension, as I understand it, is realtive to space fabric. Do they mean, another universe? (presuming inflationary universe theory not as a singular occurence and potentially overlapping?) I hear aliens from other dimensions all the time and I'm totally not getting it, people use other dimension as synonomous with alternate reality and other universe alike.

I tell ya what, nothing gets me rialed up quicker than quantum mathematics. It's a real hot button...

Anyway, back to the tsunami. Yes, its perfect. An asteroid from the direction of the sun, people discover too late and freak, it misses, they're all relieved, but its jerked the moons orbit enough to slow it and cause a continental plate pull. Perfect. Except if they live the moon is ominously coming their way.

Euan Harvey
01-12-2005, 03:32 PM
A dimension, as I understand it, is realtive to space fabric
Well, y'see, if you make electrons spin backward, or up-side down, or something, or you paint quarks blue, or dip 'em in a sweet and sour sauce, or something like that, then you enter Another Universe (TM) which is very much like our own, except it's also very different.

Hope that clears things up.

Pthom
01-12-2005, 05:00 PM
Blue quarks in sweet and sour sauce ... think I had some of that at the local Szechuan restaurant the other night. It was definitely different, dimensionally and -- oh, wait. That was the cute alien waitress. Never mind.

HConn
01-13-2005, 12:08 AM
Well, the menu said it was chicken, but I peaked in the dumpster in the alley and saw a bunch of quark heads.

:x

Hapsburg
01-13-2005, 07:11 AM
Well, y'see, if you make electrons spin backward, or up-side down, or something, or you paint quarks blue, or dip 'em in a sweet and sour sauce, or something like that, then you enter Another Universe (TM) which is very much like our own, except it's also very different.

Hope that clears things up.


:lol :lol :lol

Alas, it does not...

Nyki27
01-14-2005, 04:57 AM
My understanding (as an interested non-scientist) is that dimensions are fundamentally just types of direction, and that other universes, each grown from their own Big Bang, exist "along" one such dimension. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

I didn't know anyone had proposed as many as 26, last I heard, it was whether it's 10 or 11.

Hapsburg
01-14-2005, 10:09 AM
Yep, that's essentially right. I don't know if I believe other universes that each derived from their own big bang exist. It seems logical to me but its so hard for me to conceptualize that plane on which universes exist. That plane, as I think of it, would have to be devoid of space; which creates quite a predicament. As to the 26, that's the highest I've heard of mathematically, though I suppose it could become infinitesimal when we start thinking about it at the quantum level. Gods space is so weird...

Nyki27
01-17-2005, 05:57 AM
I've actually tried to describe the "inter-universe" space in a story, but it's a fantasy, so there's no actual requirement for it to be scientifically precise. One feature, from a viewpoint "outside" any universe, is of each of them growing from nothing to vast size on the inside, yet still remaining the same size from outside.

StephenFEvans
07-19-2005, 06:36 PM
I am new to the world of writing (this is my very first input) and have so far not been published although my first efforts have been seeking a publisher for about a year. I have considered a similar event to the disaster you describe but considered the removal of all that oil and gas a more likely cause. Mother Nature does sometimes need a little help.

Not sure if this is of any help but it is nice to join in.

LloydBrown
07-19-2005, 06:47 PM
Pthom, was it Inconstant Moon (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/adam.milner/books/inconstant_moon.htm), by Larry Niven?

Perhaps it was Thundarr the Barbarian.

dblteam
07-19-2005, 10:55 PM
Yes, here's one that might be new:

Our world's dimensions temporarily merge with those of some other dimension leaving creatures from each on the wrong world with just enough supporting ecology to be more than a temporary nuisance.

Hey! That's my WIP!

No, really. Only it's a permanent swap of pieces of our earth with pieces of those in other dimensions (so the planet's size and general makeup are alike enough to believe they could fit together that way).

Valerie

DaveKuzminski
07-19-2005, 11:28 PM
There's an article online in the current news about a neutron star that novaed and that the frequency of the wavelengths(?) from it would be approximately an F sharp. Extrapolate that into a killer shock wave and you might have a story even though it would take, in this case, 50,000 light years for it to strike. Still, it could happen to a star that's much closer or, adding a strong element of fiction, maybe to a stealth star only a few light years away that we couldn't see until it novaed.