Children's picture book support thread.

Phew! Where do you start on this subject???

Admittedly I have only skimmed the link you gave, Storyteller, and my head won't take in the figures at this time in the morning anyway. But the one thing I would say a good agent has is the ability to get your mss in front of large publishing houses that usually won't entertain unsol mss.

I'm in the UK, so things may be different in your neck of the woods, but the number of publishers who accept unsol PB's here, is very low.

My logic for trying agents is purely that they can open doors for me that are firmly locked otherwise.


When it comes to queries, I think you will find that most agents and publishers who handle PB's, would prefer to see the whole mss up front and skip the query process. They rarely put this in their guidelines but if you give them a ring they will clarify it. Makes sense really, as most PB's are shorter than the queries are.

A personal gripe I have at the moment with a lot of published books, is that it seems the illustrations and the subject matter have overtaken the story. I'm a little confused as to what publishers actually find most important.

Moondance will be on to discuss this matter in a while, I'm sure. So one for you, Moondance - I know you had one PB published and then quite a few rejected - Do you have any idea why? Were you given any feedback at all as to why the first one successful and the others weren't?
Is there really a recipe for a successful PB writer - I know there are a few out there. Let's hope they drop in!

Well, I can take you on regarding the 'my kids and mom love it,' theme.

I know there is a bit of confusion with regards to who you let see your story. I mean, how do you know if kids will like it if they never get to read it?
Plus a lot of experts will tell you to show it to kids to get an opinion.

What I do, is give the story to my friends to read to their kids, but they never know it's written by me. That way, I have at least a small chance of minimising any biased reaction.

Adult family members are a different matter. If they never, ever, pick you up on anything, then you are either a genius or they love you too much. Unless of course, you have a reader like my sister who is merciless, and, thank God, usually right.
If she speaks, I listen.

I'll take a whack at your questions.

writerterri said:

They're hard aren't they? I've read some good ones and I've read some that I couldn't wait until I got to the end of it.

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Hard? You'll get no argument here. And the market is so competitive. Not only are publishers/agents flooded with PB ms, but shelf space is limited because the classics never go out of print.

Good/Bad? A lot of that is a matter of taste. I never understood the whole Beatles thing.

Make sure you aren't following the link removed via request from other site's Webmaster.Crap plus 1 fallacy.

writerterri said:

I just can't stand it when a celebrity gets one published just because of who they are.

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There is a mantra that I say:

1. a celebrity who sells a large number of books puts more money in publisher's pockets, who will hopefully use that to take a chance on more new writers.

2. Celebrity books get buyers into the stores and (hopefully) they will buy other books while there.

It's life in the book-business.

writerterri said:

Write a story in 300 words or less! Are you kidding me!

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Go to the library and find books of that length. Deconstruct them and see how the author did it. But not all picture books need to be that short. Look for books you like and see what the length is.

writerterri said:

Do you have an agent? You should get an agent. Yea, right. Agents are so hard to get. I'm going strait to the publisher.

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General rule: Query 5 agents and 1 publisher at a time.

writerterri said:

What do you mean a marketing plan. I don't even know what I'm doing after you say yes to my pb.

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Who is asking for a marketing plan? I've never run into that.

writerterri said:

Querys suck!

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Yes, but that's how you get into publishers who say no unsolicited ms

writerterri said:

You mean I need illustrations? But...

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?? You usually don't need illustrations. Editors will match you with an illustrator.

writerterri said:

I just don't get it! My mom and my kids love my stories, why can't I get them published?

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My immediate family loves everything I write. I could read them my shopping list and tell them it is a free form poem and they would think it was golden. Their input is great encouragement, but a lousy critical reivew.

Critique groups can help, but make sure the critters KNOW picture books. I prefer to give it to a friend and have them read it aloud to me. Where they stumble is a problem.

Kids that are PB age can be hard because some of them just like to read to, regardless of the story. And since you don't have the illustrations, you only have half a story.

writerterri said:

What do you mean my ms doesn't have a strong enough plot.

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There are entire books written on plot. Go to the library.

Without reading your ms, I'd guess you don't have enough tension or enough action. Or perhaps the story has no urgency. Just a couple of guesses.

writerterri said:

What the heck is a theme?

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There are even more books written on theme. Too much to go into here.

writerterri said:

What do you mean it's boring?

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Quite possibly a matter of taste. I thought the Broadway show Cats was boring. Can't say without seeing your ms.

I hope this helps. PBs are tough to break into, as you know. Everyone thinks they can write a PB without even bothering to learn the form.

Sorry I misunderstood your initial post.

The problem with giving a PB to your family/friends/kids/dog/enemies to read is that the story is really only half there without illustration.

I do read mine to my kids, because I know that if they actually sit and listen without having pictures to look at, then it's a compelling story. I watch them carefully and if they start to fidget, it's back to the drawing board. Or...um...back to the computer.

I just came upon this thread. Is there a list of pb publishers anywhere on this site (or anywhere else)? Has anyone heard of Barefoot Books? Can anyone share any info on them? My fairy tale may fit in with their books.

Are fairy tales different than picture books?

Sorry for so many questions.


Debbie

Terri, my head is spinning just from those topic suggestions! I do admire you children's writers. Keep at it, and good luck with the submissions!

I've submitted to and been rejected by Barefoot Books. It's a reputable small press.