Doesn't This Attitude Offend Anyone Else Out There?

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TeddyG

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I assume this is the correct place for this as this is the place for agents etc. ...obviously Mods are welcome to move it or delete it as they see fit.

The following post I put up in my blog, Cobwebs Of The Mind, today, but since it is really something that has to do with agents etc. I am putting it in here as well.
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As I recently mentioned in my post The "House" Effect though Miss.Snark's blog is a bit too gruff and unkind at times for my tastes it is filled with a world of information. (One must simply glean out the pics of GC and let Miss Snark drool at times.) So while perusing this blog today I found a short entry discussing email queries with a link to yet another agent's blog, entitled Lit Soup and belonging to agent Jenny Rappaport. I obviously do not know this agent from beans, (and I am sure after this post if she ever sees a query from me she will burn me in effigy.)

Anyway I am on my happy way and I click on Miss Snark's link. Personally, I happen to think email queries are the ONLY way to go, and I am always astounded at the fight against them that is being waged in the agent/publishing industry. However, that is a personal view though based upon where I live and not so much the "saving trees" aspect. When sending out queries, partials, ms. etc. authors who do not live in the USA, have some huge hurdles which I am not sure agents, editors and publishers fully appreciate. First off, if the agent demands normative mail (meaning they will not take the time to sign for a Fed-Ex package for a non-client), depending on the time of year and where you are in the world, an air mail letter can take anywhere between 4-20 days to get there. Four days is great, but twenty is a real long span of time. An ms. sized envelope can take 2-3 weeks as well. Okay, so you say time is time is time. Nothing one can do about that and that is why it is called snail-mail. Cool. BUT now let us discuss SASE's. Agents hate IRC's (International Rely Coupons) and for this reason most agents will not accept them. I don't blame them. I hate them too. I once, a few years back, had to purchase IRC's here in Jerusalem, which is a very modern city. In order to get IRC's I had to get to the Main Post Office and speak to one specific person (who of course was always out!) and then they had to make a special order for them. It was a royal and very expensive pain in the ***. All this because some agents refused to take email queries. On top of that, the SASE, even if it is used by the agent to say "No Thank You" after say 6 weeks, now spends another say 2 weeks (on a good day) in the mail. What in the US would be 2 days there, 6 weeks on the agents desk, 2 days back is now at best 2 weeks+6 weeks+2 weeks. Thus I find snail-mail queries annoying at best. But this is MY problem, not the problem of an agent.

To make this clear - all quotes below are posted as an entry on Jenny Rappaport's Blog...this was not a personal email to me. In other words this is a public blog entry.
You can read her post here.
So let us return to Jenny Rappaport entry on email queries. At first she takes us through a circular route of 2 email addresses (one preferred and one not preferred) where queries come in and are filtered straight into a folder. Then she tells us:
"This is one of the reasons that I don't like electronic queries because they can often get lost for several weeks before I decide that my poor electronic folder is too full and I really should deal with them."
Okay, so now I know if I want to send a query to Jenny Rappaport I do it by snail mail. That is kind of obvious. She is the agent, she prefers it this way, and that is that is that. It is her prerogative.

So I begin reading on how she handles snail queries. Email is kind of X'ed out so let us go to snail mail. Right? Logical?

Now Miss Rappaport tells us that she works from home. That is great. So do I and so do millions of other very successful people. But here comes the kicker She writes:.
"Occasionally, I'll misplace your query--this is not my fault. Or rather, it is the fault of my boyfriend, who decides that certain piles of stuff need to be moved around, etc, for whatever reason he is currently moving them. I love him dearly, but the boy does have flaws. You'll just have to deal with it, the same as I do, since my office is in my home."
Am I the only one that finds this a bit off? The attitude of a "professional" completely cavalier. Am I the only one that stops and says, WOAH. Wait a sec... Just what the hell is going on here? I spend hours and days on a query letter to get it just right; I want you as a perspective agent (after all you do list you accept queries); I decide I am willing to wait weeks and weeks and weeks to get my answer back; my hopes and dreams are in this letter which you solicit by saying you accept queries - and now I am at the mercy of your boyfriend and his desire to tidy up what you admit is a huge pile of queries?????????????????????

Miss Snark can go and on about how dumb we writers are. I wonder why she does not look at this entry in a blog of a fellow agent and say outright just how cavalier and rude such an attitude is.

Am I the only one offended by this? Are hopeful writers so cowered that they will accept any attitude, any method in which they are dealt with and spoken to? Are authors so devoid of the most elementary aspects of self-respect that they will put all that work at the mercy of a tidy boyfriend???????? We must be a very sorry lot of people to engender such a demeaning attitude.

I used to hear jokes about the agent not liking the ms. cause the agent had a fight with the spouse the day it was read. I always thought there was a bit of truth in that, cause we are all humans and our mood effects us. But to be told flat out that my work is at the mercy of a boyfriend, no matter how unimportant it is in the scheme of things, in such a manner by an agent who does solicit queries - and to be told it is not her fault!....now I have seen the ultimate Hutzpah!

Doesn't This Attitude Offend Anyone Else Out There?
 
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Liam Jackson

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Teddy, I don't know if "offensive" is the first word that came to mind when I read the her response. My first take was that the e-mail was far too casual, or the sender was simply unprofessional, or maybe into the cups that evening. None of the impressions were favorable.

Having waded neck-deep through my share of bureaucrats from Fortune 100 outfits and high-powered U.S. guv'ment offices over the years, I've recognized a growing trend of informality.

Two decades ago such displays in correspondence were considered marks of the beast (purposely disdainful of professional decorum), a participant in far too many three-five martini lunches, or "the living dead" (a person on the verge of retirement or position abandonment.

You still see traditional, "proper" written correspondence etiquette demonstrated by most of the shaker and mover circles. However, even with the aforementioned group e-mails continue a slow evolution (or de-evolution) toward casual and informal. Even so, you seldom, if ever, see such informality between new acquaintances.

I asked a close acquaintence once why he treated new contacts like long-lost family. He replied that informal e-mails put people at ease and demonstrated his own self-confidence. Maybe he has a point. Maybe not.

Bear in mind I'm certainly not defending the trend. I think informality in business is earned over time by sharing common causes and goals and recognizing compatible personality traits that lend to strong business relationships. To begin communications with such an informal attitude is a sign that the other potential partner may not be as focused on the business at hand.

**Not implying that the latter is always the case. Individual mileage may vary.

*** "cavalier and rude" is a nice summary.
 
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Alien Enigma

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Yeah, I wouldn't allow a person who acts like "Miss Snark" to touch my manuscript. She doesn't use a real name, she insults people, and her blog isn't funny. I can't give her my stamp of approval. :)
 

TeddyG

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Folks:
1. This is NOT about Miss Snark's blog.
2. All QUOTES above are from a public entry on Jenny Rappaport's Blog - it was NOT an email to me....I found the post in the blog very disturbing and unprofessional.
 

KTC

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Sounds like piles are the issue here, at least with Rappaport. Writers shouldn't be expected to put all of their hopes and dreams into hopefully maybe landing in the right pile. This is where we use our option to shop around. Walk away from that agent and find one that is at least not blatantly disregarding of our dreams. I don't want to be on a pile that gets moved willy nilly by some chick's boyfriend.
 

JennaGlatzer

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Hi Teddy,

Thanks for accidentally kicking off the new board. ;)

I understand why you're put off by that quote. It doesn't bug me for the same reason, and not because I'm cowering down to agents, but because I always remember this fact:

Nobody asked me to write.

It was my decision to do it, and no one owes me anything-- not even a read.

I'd be totally put off if an agent had said the same thing about material she requested. Before that stage, however, I'm the salesperson in the relationship. I'm the one sending unsolicited material and asking her to take time away from her clients to read my stuff to determine if she can help me get it published. That's akin to people who send me advertisements in the mail, even if I said it was okay to send the advertisements.

So I take no personal offense to it. It's not up to her to care about how much work I put into the query letter-- she didn't ask me to write it. However, the main thing that would concern me about that quote is whether or not she's organized with her clients' work. Because of the casualness of the attitude shown there, you're right that I'd be a bit worried about whether that same attitude carries over to publisher submissions, client communication, etc. (And I know that if my husband began misplacing my work documents, I'd calmly tell him never to come into my office again.)

Nice thing about agent blogs, though, is that you can get an overall picture of the person and use it to determine whether that one quote was out of character or not. One agent I've worked with often makes some off-the-wall remarks that any living human would consider rude and tacky. (When he met me in person, after we'd worked together, he said something like, "Oh, you're pretty! I thought you'd be really mousy looking.") However, his sales speak for themselves. He's a great agent, despite his "quirks." If you had determined that this was an agent you really wanted, and you hadn't heard back in the stated time frame, it's easy enough to shoot off a follow-up e-mail to make sure the query was received.
 

Fahim

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TeddyG said:
Doesn't This Attitude Offend Anyone Else Out There?

To be honest, not really :) Agents are people too. Sure, I would like everybody in the world to be punctilious, courteous and prompt. But not everybody meets even one of those criteria - let alone all of it. So I take them as they are. Or, if I just can't bear to deal with them, I don't. (This is not meant to be offensive or as a criticism of your words Teddy) Being offended does nothing towards getting my book published and in the end, it's all a game of luck as anything else. If you consider, your letter might get stuck to the bottom of the bin and never get delivered, it might be delivered to the wrong address, it might fall through a crack and never be seen ... or it might be moved to the wrong pile by an errant boyfriend and not be seen immediately :) I submit from a foreign country as well and I feel your pain but I don't really worry about it. It will happen when it does, or maybe it won't ... what do I know?
 

TeddyG

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Jenna your points are totally taken, and I actually thought that would be the underlying assumption.

And yes no one asked anyone to write. But I do think a modicum, just a bare point, is to handle yourself with a professional attitude. Seeing that entry in her blog, made me wonder actually after all that is said about writers, authors etc. and how dumb we sometimes look - why anyone would allow such a person to deal with their work?

It disturbs me to be honest for a deeper reason. It seems to be somewhat of an ever-popular thought process? attitude? - that authors can be told anything and everything - no matter how demeaning it sounds - and they will accept it - because yes - no one told us to write.

Even if such a thing takes place in her house or office - even if it happens often - the fact that she publicly announced it - with such a cavalier and non-professional attitude - saying in essence "Tough luck folks. My BF is a neat freak and if he decides to rearrange my work - it is not my fault" - I can only wonder at the impression this woman makes on a publisher.

It comes from the attitude if you will excuse me for being totally blunt -
"I the agent am God. You, the authors, are the ants of the universe. If I choose to watch you - be happy. If I choose to step on you - that is my decision. BUT please remember that you should continue building your ant hills and showing them to me. Because without you, I wont be able to pay my bills."

Actually pisses me off to be honest....and I can only wonder how many other non-professional agents out there do the same.

If my agent, even TRIED to talk to me like that, I would tell her where to stick it so fast she would not see the truck coming.
 

TeddyG

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Fahim....
sheesh...critcize away....I can take it!
But what you are saying is....all types of peeps make up this world. I agree. But imagine you did send this chick your query cause you thought she was good, and six months later you find out her BF used it to scribble a note "Please Clean the House".
 

KTC

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Maybe what is wrong here is that she put it into words. Maybe other agents think the same way...but I think it was kind of a slap in the face to actually say it. "I may not even see your piece because my ditzy boyfriend may clear the clutter and make it disappear." Total lack of regard. We may be the salesperson...and granted I toss 100% of the sales crap that comes in through my door, I hang up the phone on solicitors and I slam the door on them if they're dumb enough to come to my house. But, you know why I do this...because I don't ask them to bring me their crap. Agents DO ASK US to submit. They cannot live without us. They need our sales pitches. They shouldn't admit publicly that they basically don't give a toss. I stick to what I said...if you don't like the cavalier attitude of such an agent...walk away, find one who doesn't publicly admit to being scatterbrained and at the will of her boyfriend.
 

Fahim

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TeddyG said:
sheesh...critcize away....I can take it!

Actually, what I said was that I wasn't criticizing you, not that I was :p

TeddyG said:
But what you are saying is....all types of peeps make up this world. I agree. But imagine you did send this chick your query cause you thought she was good, and six months later you find out her BF used it to scribble a note "Please Clean the House".

Well, I'm aware of that eventuality when I send in a query to anybody. Heck, half the people I've queried have never responded to me at all after almost a year. So I know that some of it will be misplaced, some of it will be put off for later and forgotten and some will even be misused by a boyfriend. But that's the nature of the game. Why waste energy on getting angry about that? That energy can be better used to write or query elsewhere ... or something :)
 

TeddyG

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quidscribis said:
Hey, I just got a rep point for my hat. How cool is that? And all because of this thread. :)

Fahim...Quids needs some time alone me thinks :) ... she is gonna start a thread about hats soon...and then we will all be in trouble....:D
 

KTC

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But she does wear it well.
 

Fahim

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TeddyG said:
Fahim...Quids needs some time alone me thinks :) ... she is gonna start a thread about hats soon...and then we will all be in trouble....:D

Hey, hats aren't part of a writer's life (well, at least not directly)! So off to the Office Party dungeons with Quid :tongue
 

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TeddyG said:
Even if such a thing takes place in her house or office - even if it happens often - the fact that she publicly announced it - with such a cavalier and non-professional attitude - saying in essence "Tough luck folks. My BF is a neat freak and if he decides to rearrange my work - it is not my fault" - I can only wonder at the impression this woman makes on a publisher.

Yep. This is where I agree. And it goes with something Liam said upthread about the tendency toward informality in the workplace, in an in-your-face way. I don't like it. I think it's cool that people can work from home (I do it!), but that shouldn't mean that they get to conduct themselves less responsibly than if they were in an office.

I did a roundtable editor interview once where I asked them questions about what bugs them about writers, and a couple of them mentioned the un-office-like behavior they sometimes see. For example, if they're talking to you about an assignment, they don't want you saying that you have to get call waiting because your aunt is beeping in and can you call them back? They don't want you yelling at your kids in the background, or missing deadlines because of personal stuff that could have been planned around.

I feel the same way about people I work with. An agent working from home is OK with me, as long as I know I'm getting the same level of professionalism as I'd get from an agent working in-house at William Morris.

And that's where it's a two-way street-- the agent has to choose you, but you also have to choose the agent. Mutual decision. For me, that's primarily (but not entirely) based on track record. If this agent has a great track record selling books like mine, I'll know that publishers have no problem dealing with her, and that's my main concern.

Secondary to track record, for me, is personality. Do I like this person? Do I want to talk to this person every week or two? Do I feel respected? Do I feel like this agent understands what I want from my career?
 

TeddyG

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JennaGlatzer said:
Do I feel like this agent understands what I want from my career?

That to me is the focal, central point of it all. Assuming professionalism, that is to my mind the MOST important question any author should ask and get answered.
 

KTC

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I turned down an agent last year because I didn't like her glasses. I don't even know if she had piles being moved by her boyfriend. I met her in a controlled environment with many people around. She dug my manuscript, but after talking it over with friends I just had to say no to her. They agreed...her glasses were hideous. What other bad choices would she make?


ETA: You might think I'm kidding, but I swear I'm not.
 

KTC

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I scare me, Teddy. I scare me very much. My happiness offends me.
 
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