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View Full Version : It's a Good Thing We're Getting those WMDs in Iraq...



emeraldcite
10-09-2006, 08:38 AM
North Korea claims nuclear test (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/08/korea.nuclear.test/index.html)


SEOUL, South Korea (CNN) -- North Korea on Monday claimed it has performed a successful nuclear test, according to that country's official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).
South Korean government officials also said North Korea performed its first nuclear test, the South's Yonhap news agency reported.
The apparent nuclear test was conducted at 10:36 a.m. (0136 GMT) in Hwaderi near Kilju city, Yonhap reported, citing defense officials.

BottomlessCup
10-09-2006, 08:44 AM
Well, obviously we're not going to invade a country that actually has nuclear weapons. That's crazy.

emeraldcite
10-09-2006, 08:50 AM
Well, obviously we're not going to invade a country that actually has nuclear weapons. That's crazy.

That's true. We really only invade countries that we can pretend that they do...

blacbird
10-09-2006, 08:54 AM
Oh, Christ, let's just invade everybody and get it over with.

caw.

emeraldcite
10-09-2006, 08:56 AM
Oh, Christ, let's just invade everybody and get it over with.

caw.

lol. I certainly don't think invading is the answer; however, having all our troops tied up in the quagmire of the Middle East really makes it difficult to handle real crises.

Just a thought: N. Korea puts a few nukes down on Iraq. What would happen to our military presence in the world?

That is a frightening thought...

maestrowork
10-09-2006, 09:19 AM
Does N. Korea have oil?

blacbird
10-09-2006, 09:28 AM
having all our troops tied up in the quagmire of the Middle East really makes it difficult to handle real crises.

Noooo . . . ya think? Should we tell Mr. Rumsfeld?

caw.

Opty
10-09-2006, 10:53 AM
Well, if Japan is still as mad as last time (earlier this summer), they're likely to invade North Korea before anyone can talk them out of it. Japan's PM wanted to blow NK off the face of the Earth a few months ago, and he's already declared these tests as "unpardonable" and such, so I think Japan should be a focus of concern regarding the volatility of this situation.

Liam Jackson
10-09-2006, 02:45 PM
I don't forsee an invasion. I do, however, see...yes, yes...there it is... A surgical strike on NK's nuclear facilities with a squadron of B-1 bombers, complimented by a dozen or so Cruise missles from the Sea of Japan.

Caveat- Keep in mind I use a worn-out spark plug from 5.0 liter Briggs and Sratton lawn mower instead of a crystal ball.

Liam Jackson
10-09-2006, 02:48 PM
Oh, Christ, let's just invade everybody and get it over with.

caw.

Or...we invade nobody and just say we did. Sort of the tail wagging the dog in reverse. Whaddya think?

aadams73
10-09-2006, 02:50 PM
N. Korea doesn't have oil, nor does Bush Sr. have unfinished business with them.

Unique
10-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Or...we invade nobody and just say we did. Sort of the tail wagging the dog in reverse. Whaddya think?

This idea has merit. Run it by the spin doctors and we'll have the whole world believing it by next week.

Good show, Liam. ;)

aadams73
10-09-2006, 04:26 PM
Yeah! Because if we believe "mission accomplished," we'll believe anything :D

Liam Jackson
10-09-2006, 04:36 PM
If we get hollywood and Madison Avenue involved, we'll even have North Korea believing they were invaded and overrun in a pitched 30 day war. As terms of surrender, we offer Kim his own sitcom on the WB and a contract pitching Chunky Soup with Donovan McNabb.

(Damn, why didnt we do this with Iraq?)

robeiae
10-09-2006, 04:40 PM
From the article:

"The field of scientific research in the DPRK (North Korea's official name) successfully conducted an underground nuclear test under secure conditions on October 9 ... at a stirring time when all the people of the country are making a great leap forward in the building of a great prosperous powerful socialist nation," KCNA [the official news agency of North Korea] reported.It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad...

Of course, this is a result of a poorly conceived diplomatic solution that had only one possible end-game scenario--it was always only a question of 'when,' never 'if.' Thank you, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

Liam Jackson
10-09-2006, 04:48 PM
I'm not sure I can stop at Jimmy Carter, Rob. Problems with NK go way, and our long-standing diplomatic position with China only helped foster the current situation. We're about to pay for that in spades in the near future, I'm afraid.

For those who fear an American invasion of NK, rest easy. China will never allow the US a stronghold the size of NK on its border. They know that and we know that. Distance warfare, however, is another matter. And yes, it was only ever a matter of 'when' and not 'if'.

Of course, I could be wrong.

aadams73
10-09-2006, 04:52 PM
If we get hollywood and Madison Avenue involved, we'll even have North Korea believing they were invaded and overrun in a pitched 30 day war. As terms of surrender, we offer Kim his own sitcom on the WB and a contract pitching Chunky Soup with Donovan McNabb.

(Damn, why didnt we do this with Iraq?)

We could call it, "Everybody Loves Kim Jong-il." Heck, maybe we could put him in a sitcom with Saddam Insane and make it a modern-day Odd Couple.

robeiae
10-09-2006, 05:02 PM
I'm not sure I can stop at Jimmy Carter, Rob. Problems with NK go way, and our long-standing diplomatic position with China only helped foster the current situation. We're about to pay for that in spades in the near future, I'm afraid.In my ideal world, we would have no diplomatic or economic relations with China--but I'm a hard @ss.

Still, it's the stupidity of naive diplomats like Carter that insured the realization of North Korea's nuclear weapons program. Hell, UN and U.S. dollars paid for most of it. And still, the people starve. Great, an "everybody wins" scenario...

blacbird
10-09-2006, 08:47 PM
From the article:
It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad...

Of course, this is a result of a poorly conceived diplomatic solution that had only one possible end-game scenario--it was always only a question of 'when,' never 'if.' Thank you, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

Ah, yes, when all else fails, let's drag out the ol' Bill-Clinton-is-at-fault rug and beat it a little.

caw.

blacbird
10-09-2006, 08:52 PM
Well, if Japan is still as mad as last time (earlier this summer), they're likely to invade North Korea before anyone can talk them out of it. Japan's PM wanted to blow NK off the face of the Earth a few months ago, and he's already declared these tests as "unpardonable" and such, so I think Japan should be a focus of concern regarding the volatility of this situation.

Japan's not about to invade anybody, least of all North Korea. Their military is miniscule and not equipped for any form of foreign military adventure. The North Koreans, on the other hand, are by all accounts, what, the third or fourth-largest standing military in the world? And one of their few exports is what, weapons?

On the other hand, I doubt China would permit North Korea to go very far beyond bluster. They're now diehard capitalists, political totalitarians yes, but "communist" in name only, in complete rapture about the world commercial market. And doing a damn good job it, too, I might add. The last thing they want is a land military confrontation involving foreign powers on their doorstep.

caw.

maestrowork
10-09-2006, 09:06 PM
We could go back and talk about our weapons program with Iraq, too.

Anyway, now we're proposing sanctions. Wow, that ought to work. Why, after $400B spent in Iraq, the best we can come up with about NK is sanction.

robeiae
10-09-2006, 09:42 PM
Ah, yes, when all else fails, let's drag out the ol' Bill-Clinton-is-at-fault rug and beat it a little.Oh, my point of blame here is not that North Korea has nuclear weapons; it's the attitude on display on this thread.

But even so, it's kind of funny to watch revisionists at work, so by all means, continue...

badducky
10-09-2006, 09:48 PM
Let us not forget that they've made this claim before and it was discovered that they had shoved a bunch of tnt in the ground to simulate a nuke.

wait for confirmation from independent testing currently underway. all we know right now is that there was a blast.

more importantly, if we keep telling them their tests are fake, how much of their hypothetical nucleur material will be lost to more testing?

badducky
10-09-2006, 09:48 PM
Let us not forget that they've made this claim before and it was discovered that they had shoved a bunch of tnt in the ground to simulate a nuke.

wait for confirmation from independent testing currently underway. all we know right now is that there was a blast.

more importantly, if we keep telling them their tests are fake, how much of their hypothetical nucleur material will be lost to more testing?

blacbird
10-09-2006, 09:56 PM
We could go back and talk about our weapons program with Iraq, too.

Anyway, now we're proposing sanctions. Wow, that ought to work. Why, after $400B spent in Iraq, the best we can come up with about NK is sanction.

What's to sanction? Like, we give them sooooo much support now.

caw.

Kate Thornton
10-09-2006, 10:13 PM
NK is already starving - conditions are horrific. Winter is coming, and Kim Il Jong hopes to shake out some sort of bargaining position with this test. If he can, he wants to trade stepping back on the nuclear front for food.

It's a desperate situation there.

Japan has about had it and South Korea has its army on full alert. China is an interesting card in this game - they have the power to make NK back down from any real threat, but also the ability to give food aid. I'd like to wait and see what NK is going to ask for and who is going to offer it.

PS Looks like the new Secretary General of the U.N. will be South Korean Foreign Minister Ban Ki Moon

jst5150
10-09-2006, 10:24 PM
Technically, as Kate would tell you, the US still at war with Korea. No armistice. Nothing in place save 36,000 American forces standing guard with the South Koreans. We've had a stake in this area since 1949 -- 57 years by my count.

Besides, what does North Korea have -- oil? Nope. Link to China? Yep. Do we piss off China when we're on the verge of growing our economy into China's? Nope. Every corporation in the Fortune 500 would be on the Hill lobbying for us to stop pronto. And then there's the whole "Taiwan" thing. "See all the pieces on the board, Sam." (That's a West Wing reference)

Treating North Korea the way we do keeps us in the mix in Asia, with the Seven Tigers and gives us leverage. No one freaked when Pakistan detonated. No one freaked when India detonated. All you or I or almost anyone with anything other than citizenship and taxpaying rights hears about Kim Jung Il and North Korea comes from the media.

And being where I am right now, I rather believe Liam's nailed it with his surgical strike limerick. However, it'll be F-18s, F-22s and F-16s rather than B-1s. Those break down far too easily. :-)

v/r, jt

billythrilly7th
10-09-2006, 11:46 PM
Japan's not about to invade anybody, least of all North Korea.

Of course not.

We're the only ones with the balls to take military action against a gathering storm.

Anyway, it's too late to do anything with North Korea.

We should just keep working on our missile defense system and that's that.

And I believe that Kim Jong Ill is a loud mouth coward who just wants attention and wouldn't dare fire off a nuke at anyone. He likes his cushy lifestyle too much.

thank you

Papa'sLiver
10-10-2006, 01:09 AM
Of course not.

We're the only ones with the balls to take military action against a gathering storm.

Anyway, it's too late to do anything with North Korea.

We should just keep working on our missile defense system and that's that.

And I believe that Kim Jong Ill is a loud mouth coward who just wants attention and wouldn't dare fire off a nuke at anyone. He likes his cushy lifestyle too much.

thank you

And those balls are now raisins, thanks to our current administration.

Thank you.

Kate Thornton
10-10-2006, 01:11 AM
We should just keep working on our missile defense system and that's that.

Oddly enough, that's what I do for a living, Billy....

Sheryl Nantus
10-10-2006, 01:22 AM
I suspect they'll find out that it's all just a lot of TNT blown up underground - I doubt that the NK scientists have the knowledge to do anything without blowing themselves up in a rush to stay alive.

lie to the dictator and live... happens more often than not, I fear.

billythrilly7th
10-10-2006, 01:29 AM
Oddly enough, that's what I do for a living, Billy....

That's awesome and please hurry.

Thank you.

Thank you.

robeiae
10-10-2006, 01:31 AM
I suspect they'll find out that it's all just a lot of TNT blown up underground - I doubt that the NK scientists have the knowledge to do anything without blowing themselves up in a rush to stay alive.

lie to the dictator and live... happens more often than not, I fear.Any report that claims it was not a nuclear explosion will obviously be a product of the minions of the evil U.S. government and will be nothing but lies, as are all reports that claim there is mass starvation in North Korea. The glorious peoples of North Korea are unequaled in their skills and knowledge. They will soon be the most propserous peoples on the planet and in all of history.

blacbird
10-10-2006, 01:50 AM
And I believe that Kim Jong Ill is a loud mouth coward who just wants attention and wouldn't dare fire off a nuke at anyone.

I agree with you on this one. Even the Chinese wouldn't put up with him actually using one on somebody.

RR

blacbird
10-10-2006, 01:51 AM
the minions of the evil U.S. government and will be nothing but lies,

Well . . . even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then.

caw.

Kate Thornton
10-10-2006, 02:08 AM
I've seen their missile tests! (Can you say "blow up on the launch pad"?)Thank dog they've got no reliable delivery system. When I heard they were going to do an underground nuclear test, I figured the place would just be a big freakin' melted hole in the ground today...

I'll reserve comment on the test until I hear it was a real one and not just tnt in a cave somewheres.

Sheryl Nantus
10-10-2006, 02:27 AM
I've seen their missile tests! (Can you say "blow up on the launch pad"?)Thank dog they've got no reliable delivery system. When I heard they were going to do an underground nuclear test, I figured the place would just be a big freakin' melted hole in the ground today...

I'll reserve comment on the test until I hear it was a real one and not just tnt in a cave somewheres.

my husband and I did laugh at the jokes about the name of the missle - and we both doubt seriously that NK has the ability to get said missle beyond Japan before it falls into the ocean. Still a danger, but...

hubby's ex-AF so he laughs a lot at the news stories.

:D

emeraldcite
10-10-2006, 04:22 AM
I've seen their missile tests! (Can you say "blow up on the launch pad"?)Thank dog they've got no reliable delivery system.

I wouldn't say that N. Korea is all that much of a problem...It's who they'd sell it to that you really have to worry about.

robeiae
10-10-2006, 05:54 AM
Those guys over at Google?

Kate Thornton
10-10-2006, 05:31 PM
I wouldn't say that N. Korea is all that much of a problem...It's who they'd sell it to that you really have to worry about.

It would be re-sale as they got the technology from Pakistan...

emeraldcite
10-11-2006, 12:05 AM
Those guys over at Google?

Hey, they just bought YouTube for billions, I'd say The Bomb is next on their list...

Kate Thornton


It would be re-sale as they got the technology from Pakistan...

True, but Pakistan sold the technology. I'd say that N. Korea would be happy to sell a nuke, especially to someone who'd send it first class to the US.

Pakistan has too much to lose to directly sell a nuke. NK has nothing to lose.

jst5150
10-11-2006, 12:26 AM
Pakistan HAS the nuke. NK has sent out a press release claiming it detonated a test nuke. BIG difference.

astonwest
10-11-2006, 02:41 AM
Had Bush actually sent an invasion force in to stop NK's nuclear plans (such as they may or may not be), the same people riding him for not doing enough would be riding him for invading another country...

robeiae
10-11-2006, 02:43 AM
...another sovereign country. :roll:

TheGaffer
10-11-2006, 03:00 AM
Nuts to that. If anything, this little explosion points out the folly of going into Iraq in the first place. Never mind with the glib little sovereign whatever (which was a stupid way of putting it anyway); we had good reasons not to invade Iraq. They were ridiculed as "leftover peaceniks" and "appeasers." Now here we are.

nicegrrl
10-11-2006, 03:17 AM
Why dont we just buy the nukes from NK? What has the US got to lose by being a little friendlier to North Korea? I mean, North Korea hates South Korea and Japan but I think the US can afford to piss off South Korea and Japan since a) its not like NK is actually going to invade them and b) Japan and SK arent going to sell anything to terrorists. Well, maybe a speaker or a PS3...

NK has no reason to side with Islamofacists if the US becomes its friend.

robeiae
10-11-2006, 03:41 AM
Nuts to that. If anything, this little explosion points out the folly of going into Iraq in the first place. Never mind with the glib little sovereign whatever (which was a stupid way of putting it anyway); we had good reasons not to invade Iraq. They were ridiculed as "leftover peaceniks" and "appeasers." Now here we are.It's not an either-or propostion in my book. Its' the way we went in there that was flawed, not the reasons for going in. Now, here we are.

blacbird
10-11-2006, 03:48 AM
Its' the way we went in there that was flawed, not the reasons for going in. Now, here we are.

I half agree with you. Guess which half.

caw.

robeiae
10-11-2006, 03:49 AM
I half agree with you. Guess which half.

caw.Your right half?

TheGaffer
10-11-2006, 04:15 AM
The same half I agree with on that, cha-cha.

robeiae
10-11-2006, 05:10 AM
Does that mean it's half time?

(Sorry for the half assed attempt--I seem to have run out of witty half comments, as shocking as that may seem)

TheGaffer
10-11-2006, 02:45 PM
too clever by half.

blacbird
10-11-2006, 08:11 PM
This morning the President announced that we are setting up local committees in Baghdad to help fight the insurrection.

So we finally do have weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I worked for a couple of big corporations for a number of years, and let me tell you, if you ever want to destroy something utterly, a committee will do the trick, guaranteed.

caw

Papa'sLiver
10-11-2006, 11:15 PM
This morning the President announced that we are setting up local committees in Baghdad to help fight the insurrection.

So we finally do have weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I worked for a couple of big corporations for a number of years, and let me tell you, if you ever want to destroy something utterly, a committee will do the trick, guaranteed.

RR

Troops to be there through 2010 now, or so the army says. Who will be on the committees? Iraq is down about 600K people at the moment.

astonwest
10-13-2006, 02:13 AM
Hey, they just bought YouTube for billions, I'd say The Bomb is next on their list...
Don't Google Bombs already exist?

whistlelock
10-13-2006, 08:38 PM
Looks like fodder for another episode (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061013/ap_on_re_as/us_nkorea) of "Kim Jong be so illin'."

China and the US aren't finding airborn radiation that should be present after a nuclear test. Combined with the readings taken at the time, it maybe that N. Korea is trying to pull a fast one.

Although why you'd want to convince the world you had a nuke when you didn't have one is a little weird.

TheGaffer
03-01-2007, 11:42 PM
Er...this isn't helpful.



For nearly five years, though, the Bush administration, based on intelligence estimates, has accused North Korea of also pursuing a secret, parallel path to a bomb, using enriched uranium. That accusation, first leveled in the fall of 2002, resulted in the rupture of an already tense relationship: The United States cut off oil supplies, and the North Koreans responded by throwing out international inspectors, building up their plutonium arsenal and, ultimately, producing that first plutonium bomb.

But now, American intelligence officials are publicly softening their position, admitting to doubts about how much progress the uranium enrichment program has actually made. The result has been new questions about the Bush administration’s decision to confront North Korea in 2002.

“The question now is whether we would be in the position of having to get the North Koreans to give up a sizable arsenal if this had been handled differently,” a senior administration official said this week.

The disclosure underscores broader questions about the ability of intelligence agencies to discern the precise status of foreign weapons programs. The original assessment about North Korea came during the same period that the administration was building its case about Iraq’s unconventional weapons programs, which turned out to be based on flawed intelligence. And the new North Korea assessment comes amid debate over intelligence about Iran’s weapons.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/01/washington/01korea.html?ex=1330405200&en=37430ba794a9512c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Bartholomew
03-02-2007, 12:22 AM
Hypothetical Question:

If an unknown person assassinated Kim, what would happen?

billythrilly7th
03-02-2007, 01:21 AM
Hypothetical Question:

If an unknown person assassinated Kim, what would happen?

His brother Mentally Ill takes over.

Thank you, David Letterman.

dclary
03-02-2007, 01:36 AM
Er...this isn't helpful.




http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/01/washington/01korea.html?ex=1330405200&en=37430ba794a9512c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Gaff gets the daily hypocrite award!!!

Gaff
"Why the fuck does bush keep pursuing his policies of war! All he wants is war! Why does he threaten everyone and claim they have shit they don't!?"

Bush
"Well, we were wrong. Looks like they don't have what they said they had, or what we feared they have. We'll just keep pursuing diplomatic solutions."

Gaff
"why the fuck isn't bush attacking? Why is he softening his stance! WAAHW!WAHHAAHH!!!"

dclary
03-02-2007, 01:50 AM
Then why give him crap for backing down, BoP? He can't win if he aggresses, he can't win if he backs down? You on the left will fuck Bush no matter what he does. How is that fair?

billythrilly7th
03-02-2007, 01:55 AM
My favorite:

Liberal: Well, if WMD's are so important, why haven't we invaded North Korea?!
Billy: Do you want us to invade North Korea?
Liberal: No.
Billy: Then what are you talking about?
Liberal: Uhh....welll....we...SHOULDN'T HAVE INVADED IRAQ!

dclary
03-02-2007, 01:57 AM
No, this (the article, maybe not Gaff himself) is specifically another chance to blast Bush and his policies. North Korea said it had nukes. It said it blew up nukes. We told them "Don't blow up any fucking more nukes or we'll take you out."

At that time, there was some doubt as to whether NK had actually blown up nukes, and now that enough time has passed to be sure, we're backing off our "we'll nuke your ass" stance...

And the article's thrust is "How could Bush and his administration be such assholes about hardlining NK back then?!?!"

TheGaffer
03-02-2007, 04:47 AM
No, this (the article, maybe not Gaff himself) is specifically another chance to blast Bush and his policies. North Korea said it had nukes. It said it blew up nukes. We told them "Don't blow up any fucking more nukes or we'll take you out."

At that time, there was some doubt as to whether NK had actually blown up nukes, and now that enough time has passed to be sure, we're backing off our "we'll nuke your ass" stance...

And the article's thrust is "How could Bush and his administration be such assholes about hardlining NK back then?!?!"

Actually, no. That's not really what I was getting at. You're interpreting this differently; I wasn't suggesting he was either forceful enough, or not forceful enough. What I was getting at was that through a combination of incompetent intelligence and bad-decision making, once again we seem to have yet another Manchurian Candidate-style example of foreign policy, whereupon information is acted on imprudently, unwisely, and without any kind of attempts at verification of anything. And as far as your outlook on this - that is, that I'm suggesting we weren't forceful enough - whatever happened, the fact is the guy has plutonium weapons now, which he didn't have when this mess started.


It's not hypocritical, clary. I've been pretty consistent in my view of the administration as amazingly incompetent. Does that mean I'm bashing Bush yet again? Yes, I am. But it's a consistent view of incompetence.

billythrilly7th
03-02-2007, 04:56 AM
whatever happened, the fact is the guy has plutonium weapons now, which he didn't have when this mess started.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/6/64/250px-Kim_Jong_Il_and_Madeleine_Albright.jpg