Disciplining Toddlers - Do Time-outs Work?

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Stephanie

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Hi all,

I'm writing an article for a site about preschoolers and am looking for opinions on time-outs as a discipline method. Do you use them? Do they teach the child anything (good or bad)?

Also, any "quick tips" regarding parenting young children - for example, how do you get your 4 yr old's medication down (3 times a day!). Any potty training tricks or hints when creating good sleep habits would also be appreciated.

Please let me know if I may use the quote and whether you wish your real name to appear.

Thanks!
 

veinglory

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Time outs are undeniably effective when done correctly--which is rarely (very short time periods, in a boring area, consistent and without emotion or negotiation)
 

Lyra Jean

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Time outs worked for me when I babysat two boys. They were 7 and 9 so it might be a little older than what you are looking for.

If trouble was started then they both got put in time out no matter who started it. They each sat in a chair in the kitchen away from the table. They were allowed to get out of time when they settled down and stopped yelling, picking or kicking at each other. I think the longest was ten minutes because they didn't think I was serious.
 

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Time outs almost never worked for my kids. But taking away privileges almost always did. I think it was more tangible for them....losing something they wanted versus doing what I wanted.

The exception to that rule is my developmentally-delayed, behaviorally-challenged child, who self-times-out to her room when she needs to chill out....(boy that's a lot of hyphens, LOL)

Audrey
 
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cree

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I never had to use time-outs on my daughter. Just my husband. :)
As for potty-training techniques: really cool stickers, given as rewards. She got to stick them all over a piece of plexiglass attached to the wall right behind the trainer toilet. On Sunday nights, we'd admire and count them -- great counting practice too.
 

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In my experience, Time-Outs are effective when they're being used to show kids that negative behavior will not get them attention. I have a mantra I use to quell temper tantrums with my babysitees: "Ok, you go ahead and have yourself a good cry. When you're ready to use your words, you let me know." I followed this up by ignoring them (unless of course they tried to do themself or someone else an injury, at whichpoint I'd restrain them, calmly, silently, and without acknowledging their yelling or demands) until they stopped screaming and spoke to me.

Other fun tricks:
----the false choice. "Would you like to brush your teeth before or after your bath?" "Would you like to wear your firetruck pjs, or the Elmo ones?" It makes kids feel like they have a little more control while establishing clearly that they will in fact be brushing their teeth/going to bed/whatever.

----Monster-B-Gone(tm) area spray. Get an aerosol can of air freshener (your choice of scents) and create a can cover in photoshop/illustrator (or even just a text-based one in a word processor) that labels it as a patented monster-repelling formula. Print it out, glue it to the can, and presto. An easy answer to the monsters under the bed dilemma. Cans with their original labels can work in a pinch, but I don't recommend it. Kids are clever, and might notice that your monster-b-gone looks like the Glade can in the bathroom. And of course once they're old enough to read, the label is essential.

----"Three, Two, One; YUCK!" My mom taught me this one. When I had to take gross-tasting medicine as a kid, my mom would give me a count-down from three. I'd gulp it down, and then as soon as I was done with it I was allowed to yell "YUCK!" as loud as I wanted. Mom yelled with me. It didn't make taking the medicine any more pleasant, but it was nice to know that mom really appreciated the foulitude I was enduring in the name of personal and public health (it's a word now).
 

Stephanie

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This is the kind of great input I need, thanks everyone! And please keep it coming.

For those of you who use the kind of "boring" time-outs mentioned by veinglory, what do you think of the line of thought from psychologist, educator, and mom, Jane Nelsen, who says punitive time-outs only foster resentment and undesirable behaviors?

She suggests "positive time-outs" which are chosen in advance by the adult and child and are used as cool-down periods (for mom and toddler!), after which problem-solving can begin.
 

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Stephanie said:
This is the kind of great input I need, thanks everyone! And please keep it coming.

For those of you who use the kind of "boring" time-outs mentioned by veinglory, what do you think of the line of thought from psychologist, educator, and mom, Jane Nelsen, who says punitive time-outs only foster resentment and undesirable behaviors?

She suggests "positive time-outs" which are chosen in advance by the adult and child and are used as cool-down periods (for mom and toddler!), after which problem-solving can begin.


Hmmm. Do you have proof she is a mom?! That tactic might work with older kids who have a grasp on logic, but in my experience as mom to Exorcist Girl and Chucky Doll Boy, not with a toddler who has just reached mach 4 on the tantrum scale… Tantrums are often attention-seeking behavior and certainly as far as my kids go the best way to snap them out of one is to deny them that attention and take away their audience…
 

C.bronco

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potty training took us a very long time. My boy didn't want to stop playing long enough to go.
I told him the peepee needed to go home to the sewage treatment plant to be with its friends. That helped a bit. Eventually, he did it when he felt he was ready. One day, by divine inspiration, he put on his underwear and that was that. No more pull ups.
 

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Stephanie said:
For those of you who use the kind of "boring" time-outs mentioned by veinglory, what do you think of the line of thought from psychologist, educator, and mom, Jane Nelsen, who says punitive time-outs only foster resentment and undesirable behaviors?

She suggests "positive time-outs" which are chosen in advance by the adult and child and are used as cool-down periods (for mom and toddler!), after which problem-solving can begin.

I would have to know what she means. Time outs are free from stimulation and emotion, they are the withdrawl of conditions the child prefers for a period of time long enough to cause thought but not long enough to resentment. This period requires knowledge of the child but typically one minute per year of age is quite sufficient. More is not better, it is worse.

Punitive/positive sounds like fuzzy language that may correlate roughly with effective and non-effective. Timeouts accompanied by shouting or other angry behavior from the parent, or carried on too long will lead to resentment and tantrums and a highly emotional child is unlikely to learn the intended lesson.
 

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Short boring time-outs always seemed to work with my highly emotional girls. My son, on the other hand, seemed to actually enjoy them, a fact which was bothersome to me. With Conor, losing privileges is the worst thing that can happen (especially the use of his Playstation 2), but with the girls, loss of social contact means the end of the world.

Every kid is different and mine are no exception to that rule.

As for potty training, I really only had to train my oldest son. He was recalcitrant in the extreme. He liked me taking care of him and was perfectly happy to continue in the diaper stage. He was almost 4 years old before he grudgingly started to use the potty consistently. We tried everything to get him interested but he really didn't care if he was rewarded or not. My husband maintains he potty-trained our son in one hour, after a major (and horribly disgusting) accident at a local motorcycle shop. I think the boy just got tired of us carping on him all the time.

The girls got it in 3 days. They were so ready and the big girl underwear I bought for them was way cuter than any diapers.

Did I mention that after #3 was born, all the kids were in diapers still. I probably spent 25% of my waking hours just changing diapers. Yuck.


Also, there's no medicince so bad that it can't be disguised with a little applesauce.
 

Stephanie

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Again, thank you for the input, everyone. Much appreciated.

Veinglory, one example she gave was for a toddler (even though Dr. Nelsen does not think time-outs are effective before the age of reason, ie., about 3.5 y/o, it seems she does agree with what screenmom said and what we all know to be true - every kid is different!). Anyway, she said one mom would tell her little guy go give his enormous teddy bear a big hug - and would then ask him if he wanted her to join in.

This, to me, is not a time-out in the typical sense of the phrase - more of simple distraction.

Navigator, I think you're right on the money with peer pressure - line up a bunch of little kids with potties (with one who knows how to do it!) and they'll all be toilet trained by afternoon.
 

veinglory

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I agree, that doesn't meet the defintion of time out. Time out is the temporary withdrawal of an enjoyable environment. There are lots of strategies to take with kids but it helps if you don't moosh the theories together too much. It helps the parent use effective versions of whatever strategy is being employed.

On a side note, I have used time out with rats, children, dogs, undergraduates. It's pretty broadly useful but not a panacea by any means. As noted it can be particulalry good for exciteable individuals as a mild punishment and tracking strategy (getting back on task).
 
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expatbrat

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I'm a swim teacher and get 17 x 4yr olds in the pool at once. When a kid misbehaves I pick them up, remove them from the pool and tell them "you can sit on this chair for 5 minutes for doing bla-bla-bla."

Sometimes they cry to which I answer "yes you should be upset, you hurt NAME and you should feel sad about that." That is all I say about the tears.

There is no more discussion and after 5 minutes I simply call their name and say "you can come back in now." Again - this is all the attention they get for their time out.

I find that giving minimal attention to the negative behaviour, and being very aware of finding lots and lots of things the kids are doing right, works well. I focus on commenting on the smallest improvements so that 70% of what I say to a kid is positive.

I'm pregnant now and a little nervous on whether any of this will work on kids who know you as a parent rather than a teacher...
 

Tsu Dho Nimh

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Time outs help some children, don't help others.

My niece would be put into a time-out in her room when she threw tantrums - she was allowed out when she could talk about what was bugging her, and the length was up to her. If she came roaring back out, she'd have to go back in.

A nephew (different sibling) began to put himself into "time out" when he wanted to be alone. He's announce "I need a time out." walk into his room and close the door.

And a third nephew was NEVER deterred by time outs. Loss of favorite toys or priveleges was the key for him.
 

spike

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Time outs didn't work for my kid. She would take it as a challenge to see how long she could scream. I would shut the door and pretend I didn't hear her. In the war of wills, I would win (you can see where her stuborn streak came from!), but it didn't deter the behavoir. Saying No Swings, No outside, no TV, etc worked better.


My niece was potty trained by having cartoon character underwear. She didn't want to pee on Rainbow Brite.
 

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I think time outs work great with older kids, but with young toddlers, I don't think they get the point. With my boys, the most common problem is fighting over toys (and everything! Dear dog, those boys can fight!) I take away the offending toy and place it up high where they can see it, but not reach it. Giving the Toy a timeout seems to settle things down.
 

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Stephanie~
We have the same name...(first and last)...and perhaps the same issues. :)
Time outs worked great for my fist-born, however, did not work at all for my second. She used to put herself in time out until we realized we needed to switch to a different method of punishment. We find that for her it works to take something away from her that she wants or enjoys. She seems to get the message that way.

We also just finished potty training her as well. At first she wanted nothing to do with it because her little brother had just been "added" to the family. Once she realized that it was more fun being a big sister than a baby, she really just decided herself she wanted to do without the diaper. Although we talked about "going on the big girl potty", we didn't push it. She was 2 1/2 when she was finally trained.
Her older sister was the same way. 2 1/2 and did it very naturally. My third is a boy and I hear they are harder. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Sleeping is a much different story. My first slept through the night at 8 weeks. My 2nd didn't for a year. And my 3rd finally at 7 months. We found sucess in putting them down awake so they can learn to put themselves to sleep and letting them cry it out. The cry it out method is horrible for about 1 week and then they are sleeping through the night (most of the time). My boy is 8 months old now and sleeps around 11-12 hours a night. Although my 2 1/2 year old still wakes up occasionally! Go figure.

I hope these ramblings help.
 

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With younger kids, like toddler age, you have to keep a time out short for it to be effective. With my oldest, they never worked at all. I'd send her to her room for a two minute time out, and as I walked down the hall I'd turn around and there she'd be, following me, so we'd have to go back and start again. It probably could have gone on for hours like that if I'd let it.

My younger two, though, really got a lot out of time out. Escpecially my son, Zac the Twitchy, who was a rather high maintenance toddler -- I'd set a timer for two minutes, where the twins could see it, and I'd have them just sit on the couch in the living room with no television or any stimulus. They were allowed to pick one blanket to snuggle with during time out, which for Z was a HUGE calming mechanism.

If BOTH twins were in time out, they had to spend their two minutes thinking of something nice to say to the other one when their time was up. When the timer buzzed, they'd say things like "You smell like flowers" or "You're not really a poopyhead" to each other. It was great.
 

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My 2c is that toddlers do not need to get the point, time outs work at a Pavlovian level that does not require conscious awareness of "the point". You hope ofor an association between the "bad" behaviour and the withdrawal of the good activity.

Time outs worl well with rats who are not terribly rational. I have taught rats to run complex mazes using nothing but a time out box (no food reward). Time out will not be the best approach with every child but if applied correctly it will work. For example--timing out to the child's room may not be a good idea, kid's rooms these days are not unstimulating and they leave the child the option of destroying things to get attention. I always draw attention back to the gaol of the breif, calm withdrawal from a sitaution the kid is enjoying. The seat by the pool is a great example. If the child is not enjoying the activity, the adult is angry, the time out area is not boring or the period is too long then what is happening is effectively not a time out.

Oops, second 2c. While using withdrawal from a stimulating place to stop a child from becoming over excited is great--especially when done by the child themself--it is a different process....
 
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kristie911

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Time outs do not work for my 2 year old. I know they use them at his daycare and they seem to work for him there but not at home. He's very aware of feelings and the consequences of his actions, so usually if, say, he hits me, I put on a sad face and say, "are you supposed to hit mommy?" he'll say, "no" and then lay his head on me and say, "nice mommy. sorry." And that's that. If he knows I'm angry about something he usually starts crying and I'm the one that ends up comforting him.

However, I must say, I have yet to witness a temper tantrum from him yet so I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. I'm counting myself as one of the lucky few that my son hasn't gotten to that stage yet.

And on the subject of potty training...I have just started to introduce my son to the potty. He loves to sit on it but after 2 weeks of letting him sit there a few times a day, he finally peed while he was on the potty last night! Yay!!! But he doesn't have the control yet to really start training seriously and since he just turned 2, I'm thinking it may be pretty early for him to start. Boys are notoriously slower than girls...generally. But he likes the potty and asks to sit there frequently so I'm counting that as a good start! When it comes to trying to train him more seriously, well, I'm open to ideas!
 

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I use time-outs with all three of my toddlers, and I think they're effective in the short-term. We have the time-out corner, which is in the living room between a bookcase and a wall, and they have to stand in it, facing the wall. It's for those impulsive moments: whacking one of the other children, stealing toys, (gah!) biting...

My house is so fun.

My little ones are 2, 3, and 4. Time-outs last just a couple of minutes, after which the child must apologize to the one he/she hurt. They understand it, and will even place themselves in the corner if they know I'm going to put them there anyway. That's really cute.

For my older child, we use loss of priveleges. PS2, playtime with his buds, television, computer. We're having trouble with him remembering his assignments from school, so he's on a stepped-loss program.

We also use a reward program. I have a chart, with things like 'picking up toys', 'putting clothes in the laundry basket', 'no fighting', 'keep food in the kitchen', just a list of things we've had problems with. The kids earn a point every time they accomplish something on the chart, and when they get ten points, they can choose something out of the Reward Box. I stock it from the Dollar Store. I also have things on there specifically for the older child (Cleaning his room, for one), and he can choose whether to pick from the box or earn cash.

For medications, there's so many good-tasting ones on the market that it hasn't been a problem. One time, though, one of the little ones was put on Prednisone and another yucky prescription (I can't remember which!). He would not take it, and after taking a taste myself, I understood why. Blech! So I called the pharmacist, and he advised me that one of them could be disguised in grape kool-aid (worked!) and the other med went well with chocolate syrup. I don't know a kid who wouldn't take a spoonful of chocolate syrup. So when in doubt, call the pharmacy. They have tricks they'll share.

Potty training has been difficult. My youngest is just starting, we bought his first underpants last week. Here's a little anecdote for you: When my now-4-yo was training, he was outside with his father. He had to potty. Dumb Daddy decided that instead of bringing him inside, he'd show him how to use the Great Outdoors. Dear Son took that as an invitation to potty everywhere, and he did. The living room, the hallway, the front yard, you name it. If he had to pee, he just pulled down his pants and went. It took me a long time to undo the damage. Not to mention all the carpet cleaning. My daughter was easier. She trained at two, while I haven't been able to get the boys fully trained until three. One thing I think is important is to make potty training fun. It demands positive reinforcement. My husband would get upset if one of them had an accident, and if he yelled at them, I was put days, even weeks behind on what we'd accomplished. Be patient, and be forgiving of the inevitable accidents. And keep impatient husbands out of the room!
 

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mommywriter said:
Stephanie~
We have the same name...(first and last)...and perhaps the same issues. :)

Well, there's goes my unique identity I've been working on so hard! ;-)


Time outs worked great for my fist-born, however, did not work at all for my second. She used to put herself in time out until we realized we needed to switch to a different method of punishment. We find that for her it works to take something away from her that she wants or enjoys. She seems to get the message that way.

A lot of parents seem to agree that privilege removal works better than time-outs in many cases; however, the onus remains on the parent to be very consistent.

We also just finished potty training her as well. At first she wanted nothing to do with it because her little brother had just been "added" to the family. Once she realized that it was more fun being a big sister than a baby, she really just decided herself she wanted to do without the diaper. Although we talked about "going on the big girl potty", we didn't push it. She was 2 1/2 when she was finally trained.
Her older sister was the same way. 2 1/2 and did it very naturally. My third is a boy and I hear they are harder. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I just read somewhere that in Japan (I think), men's urinals have a fly carved or painted on them - in the spot deemed best to aim. Apparently, clean-up has been much easier....

Maybe it's a good strategy at home too!

Sleeping is a much different story. My first slept through the night at 8 weeks. My 2nd didn't for a year. And my 3rd finally at 7 months. We found sucess in putting them down awake so they can learn to put themselves to sleep and letting them cry it out. The cry it out method is horrible for about 1 week and then they are sleeping through the night (most of the time). My boy is 8 months old now and sleeps around 11-12 hours a night. Although my 2 1/2 year old still wakes up occasionally! Go figure.

I couldn't stand the crying, so now that my youngest is 8 years old (yes, years), we're finally finished with our family bed. Don't get me wrong, I love my kids; but I can't find my poor hubby!

I hope these ramblings help.

Very much, thanks!!
 
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