e-pubs: The Future is Now

CyberCobre

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I read through a couple of threads here and I see a whole bunch of suggestions for authors to (paraphrased) "go the traditional publishing route."

I find this a reprehensible attitude.

If e-pubbing provided the most bucks for you, the author, you'd be saying the opposite, seek e-pub, not paper pub. So, right now, because e-pub is still battling for market share against the paper lobby, you pursue traditional publishing because of the money potential, never mind the cost to the environment, right?

With cybook, laptops, and handheld technology, there isn't any reason to kill trees. How many books wind up in the garbage dump, the landfill, because they didn't sell and got returned by the bookstore? How many magazines get thrown out, both those never bought and those bought then discarded after MAYBE being read? What a waste of trees.

With e-pubbing, the reader gets to chose what to read, isn't contributing to decimating the environment, ruining wild-life habitat, and destroying forests. Why pursue an archaic technology? Really.

Trees and forests are too precious.
 

Dawno

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Hoo boy - you've opened a can 'o worms!

Folks - when you respond, please, just remember to keep it factual and respect your fellow writer.

CC - while I admire your passion and committment to e-publishing, I think your approach here is more confrontational than it needs to be. We have many many folk here who support e-publishing and are e-published multiple times.

If you're writing a standard novel or non-fic, however, your best market is still the good old commerical publishing market. That said, I bet nobody says no to a good offer on the e-rights, either.

Now, I leave you to the tender mercies of the rest of the AW horde...uh, folks. :D
 

JanDarby

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The so-called traditional publishers also release works in epub format, and readers can then choose which format they prefer.

JD
 

CyberCobre

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JanDarby said:
The so-called traditional publishers also release works in epub format, and readers can then choose which format they prefer.

JD

Yes. And I take good advantage of that. And, in fact, I buy very few hardbound books, mostly used if I can find them. I refuse to support the killing of trees. Reading shouldn't kill...which is part of the passion that drove me to starting The Deepening.
 

Lauri B

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Hi CC,
I am an editor and work for a publisher, and we publish our books on recycled paper. Does that count as killing, or am I okay? I think e-publishing definitely has its place in the publishing and reading spectrum, but I don't think there's really a need to call people who encourage writers to work toward getting published by a trade publisher a reprehensible attitude. The publishing industry has been wrestling with epublishing for years, and the audience for ebooks, audiobooks, and other forms of non-printed publications is growing, definitely. However, many people (and I'm one of them) would rather spend the time and money enjoying the very tangible pleasure of holding a book that you don't need to charge up, turn on, or adjust the screen. You simply close it and put it down.
And while I applaud your environmental enthusiasm, you're pretty misinformed when it comes to depleting natural resources if you're worried about killing trees to make books vs the enormous energy needs the electronic world requires.
 

Dawno

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from http://www.ecology.com/feature-stories/paper-chase/index.html

This article does talk about the environmental impact of making paper, and it is something to be concerned about. Using recycled paper and also getting business out of the massive paper waste cycle they're in will have a better impact on those issues than a blanket condemnation of the printed book - which once purchased has a much longer shelf life than the forms and printouts used briefly and then tossed by business.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with CC's position - just inserting more data.

Paper making also uses up vast quantities of trees. But trees are a renewable resource, which means that once one is cut down another can be planted in its place. In fact, much of the wood used by paper companies in the U.S. comes from privately owned tree farms where forests are planted, groomed and thinned for harvest in 20 to 35 year cycles, depending on the tree species. Around the world, tree farms supply 16% of all wood used in the paper industry while the bulk comes from second growth forests. Only 9% of the wood used to make paper is harvested from old growth forests, which are impossible to replace because of their maturity.
 

CyberCobre

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Dawno said:
Hoo boy - you've opened a can 'o worms!

Why is it a can of worms? Because refusing to support the paper/pulp industry is ecologically ethical? Because I abhor the mass annihilation of forests for paper pulp? Because with e, we don't need to kill to read? Logging doesn't just kill trees, btw. It also kills wildlife and smaller flora.

Dawno said:
CC - while I admire your passion and committment to e-publishing, I think your approach here is more confrontational than it needs to be. We have many many folk here who support e-publishing and are e-published multiple times.

Passion, commitment? Definitely. Otherwise I wouldn't have started TD. But how exactly is my post "confrontational?" Because I object to urging e-pubbing author to seek traditional "kill a tree" publishing? Why is that confrontational? What have I said that is false or confrontational? The truth is that IF e-pubbing was the lucrative venue, most would abandon kill a tree pubbing. Until e-pubbing overtakes trad pubbing...and it will, writers are going to continue to pursue killi-tree publishing because they want the golden ring, never mind how many forests and how much wildlife habitat are decimated by it.

I believe in e-pubbing, and if authors were truly eco-minded, they would refuse to pursue kill-a-tree publication. Case in point -- one of my authors pubs e and trad, but only publishes traditionally using eco-friendly pulp...and he has to go to great extremes to do it. His books cost accordingly. Another chooses only to e-pub, and has the financial ability to refuse to publish any other way. If his readers want it, they buy E.

Do you know how many writers and authors CLAIM to be eco-minded only to use up reams and reams of paper creating their work, then, if they get a trad publisher, using up reams and reams more? It takes 6% of a tree to make a ream of PULP (newsprint, paperback pages) paper and twice that for high quality paper used in glossy magazine publishing and high-quality paper...and that is only when the paper mill is using the latest greatest method...which many don't.

Do you know how many books and mags get their covers ripped off, the rest of it going to the landfill unread? Millions of tons a year. I used to run a large book and game store. The volume of covers we ripped for returns a month was astounding...sickening. The volume of books dumped into the landfill was MORE mind-boggling. And what about the hardcover returns? One branch of my family owns major holdings and control in a publishing company. Guess where those returns and unsold books go? Mostly to the landfill. And who gets rich? The paper lobby. Who loses? All of us as we decimate more and more of our forests, which kills wildlife, and ultimately will wind up irrevesibly changing our planet for the worst.

If you're writing a standard novel or non-fic, however, your best market is still the good old commerical publishing market. That said, I bet nobody says no to a good offer on the e-rights, either.

Best market for...a paycheck? Best market ethically? Best market ecologically? Most efficient market?

Readers can choose what to read and what not to read when material is e-pubbed, and do it without wasting trees on the content they do not want to read (magazine-speaking here). Books? An e-book is longer lasting than a pulp printed book...given we continue to have a planet and don't wind up back in the dark ages because we destroyed our ecosystem and our civilization by our wanton greed.

Pulp has had its time and use. Pulp, if created from something other than trees and bushes...like hemp, rice, corn husks...is fine, if that book is cherished. To churn out mags and books that will never find homes, that will be discarded, is wasteful, and totally unethical.

At minimum, POD pubbing is the only sane pulp publishing that should be pursued, with E-pubbing the only good, sound alternative. Publishers know this too, btw. It is only a matter of time. Meanwhile, they juggle for advantage and monopoly as they ride both canoes during the transition. Then, of course, there is the paper lobby... .
 

Dawno

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Confrontational tone, CC. "Reprehensible" and sounding rather shrill. Again, that goes to your passion and enthusiasm. I suggest that when you use that tone, however, you open yourself up for rather...hmm...enthusiastic responses.

As one of the supermods here I like to try and keep the peace, so I thought I'd suggest that folk not go flamey reacting to your post which pretty much paints us here all in a rather bad light because we want to be successful - and right now that means in the commercial market. Support, endorse and promote e-pubs, lots do, but depend on them - today - for a career? It's just not the right time.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Trees are a cash crop. Saying "Save the trees! Use less paper!" makes as much sense as saying "Save the wheat! Eat less bread!"

As it stands, once a book is printed every bit of energy that book is ever going to consume has already been consumed. When you read an e-book, you need a new source of power right then. Most of your electricity comes from coal. The need for energy is on-going.

Paper publishing is definitely the more ecologically friendly approach.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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James D. Macdonald said:
Trees are a cash crop. Saying "Save the trees! Use less paper!" makes as much sense as saying "Save the wheat! Eat less bread!"

As it stands, once a book is printed every bit of energy that book is ever going to consume has already been consumed. When you read an e-book, you need a new source of power right then. Most of your electricity comes from coal. The need for energy is on-going.

Paper publishing is definitely the more ecologically friendly approach.

Uncle Jim has spoken!

:Hail:
 

CyberCobre

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Nomad said:
Hi CC,
I am an editor and work for a publisher, and we publish our books on recycled paper. Does that count as killing, or am I okay? I think e-publishing definitely has its place in the publishing and reading spectrum, but I don't think there's really a need to call people who encourage writers to work toward getting published by a trade publisher a reprehensible attitude. The publishing industry has been wrestling with epublishing for years, and the audience for ebooks, audiobooks, and other forms of non-printed publications is growing, definitely. However, many people (and I'm one of them) would rather spend the time and money enjoying the very tangible pleasure of holding a book that you don't need to charge up, turn on, or adjust the screen. You simply close it and put it down.
And while I applaud your environmental enthusiasm, you're pretty misinformed when it comes to depleting natural resources if you're worried about killing trees to make books vs the enormous energy needs the electronic world requires.

Ah, someone in the biz too. Good to speak to you.

Now on to the banter:

It IS reprehensible, in my opinion. The devastation of our few remaining old forests and the new GE altered, plantation forests that are being planted on logged off wild lands is absolutely abhorrent. Authors should be pressuring for MORE e-pubbing, not pursuing archaic, earth-destructive technology.

I enjoy a good, old-fashioned good book as much as anyone...but I do try to buy only books printed on 100% recycled paper, rice paper, or other non-tree pulp alternative which cannot for PC reasons be discussed. That is quite limiting. I spent months looking for a publisher for my art calendars and my catalog, and it was a very difficult to find one using eco-ethical methods and paper.

As to the "enormous energy needs of the electronic world," those energy needs are nothing when compared to comparable hard-world equivalents. And email uses much less total resources than does a letter...in manpower, electricity, gasoline, and earth resources.

I didn't come here to argue about the facts and figures, though any research on the numbers can easily be accomplished via Google. I look at them a lot, since I am a Populaton-Connection member, a member of Green Peace, Heritage Forests, DEN, Care2, NRDC, etc.
 

Wordworm

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CyberCobre said:
I read through a couple of threads here and I see a whole bunch of suggestions for authors to (paraphrased) "go the traditional publishing route."

I find this a reprehensible attitude.
*gently, gently, the children are listening*
I speak as one who has been on the bleeding edge of publishing for many years. I will venture to say that the straight answers to the point you raise are numerous, but here are my Top Ten:
(i) as you correctly point out, the so-called "traditional" publishing market is still where the money is, including both book sales and magazine advertising revenues
(ii) reading on screen still provides (and IMHO will continue to provide for the foreseeable future) a less enjoyable experience than what ink-on-paper offers,
(iii) printed paper is, of course, more user-friendly and needs nothing beyond a pair of eyes and a set of fingers to be enjoyed,
(iv) books and magazines are universally portable and deliverable, and can be used anywhere, any time, by anyone in virtually any environment
(v) reflective light is easier on the eyeballs, and transmissive light can't match print in terms of resolution, which is especially important for type,
(vi) modern recycling programs and technologies along with well-managed reforestation programs are reducing the number of trees required to produce print, and paper manufacturers these days are keenly aware of being environmentally pro-active,
(vii) without printing, there would be an awful lot of people in both the graphic arts industry and the forestry business out of work,
(viii) without printed publications, we'd rarely get a chance to see fonts that aren't Times, Helvetica or Verdana,
(ix) without books and magazines, plane rides, camping trips, and bathrooms of the world would be much less interesting, and
(x) what would we use for wrapping fish and chips, lining kitty litters, and doing crossword puzzles?

I'll start with that, and see what others have to say...oh, and CC, please don't miss watching my world-famous song (link below).

I wrote it for you. *g*
 
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veinglory

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If you are suggesting that money is more important to me (as an author) than trees you are 100% correct. Without money I cannot get shelter, food and medical insurance. Those concerns come first for me and the trees second. I think it is reprehensible to try and shame authors for trying to reach the most readers that they can. Nor is it necessarily true that a bunch of ebook and an ebook reader have a smaller ecological footprint than the same number of paperback readings (paperacks, unlike ebooks, can be shared, sold on and require no further energy input to remain viable.)

N.B. and I am an almost exclusively epublished author, because that was the most profitable market available to me. Untimately any product sold for profit must win market share by being desirable, not by being virtuous.
 
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This is a specious argument.

* Books use paper created especially for them, by paper companies who are fanatics about replanting. Paper is recyclable, and publishers know the value of recyled paper. More books are now printed on low-acid recycled papers because it's cheaper then "new" high acid pulp.

* A codex book is re-usable; it has inherent value after being read, and even a paperback is usable for ten years or more. This is not always the case with e-books.

* E-books have their uses, but in the creation of professional high quality e-books a fair amount of paper is used; roughly the same amount as that for a printed codex book.

* E-books are not the same as codex books; to assert that they are is idiotic. I say this as as someone who has worked on and published many high quality e-books since 1989, and as a reader of e-books. They are not the same.

* You'd be amazed at how many people buy an e-book and then print it out.
 

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I agree technology will change the way books will be published but as far as the environment goes......well, electronics are filled with lots of nasty chemicals and heavy metals. Once a laptop/ipod/etc meets its fate due to obsolescence many of them end up in landfills and not recycling centers.

At least paper decomposes over a shorter time.
 

CyberCobre

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James D. Macdonald said:
Trees are a cash crop. Saying "Save the trees! Use less paper!" makes as much sense as saying "Save the wheat! Eat less bread!"

As it stands, once a book is printed every bit of energy that book is ever going to consume has already been consumed. When you read an e-book, you need a new source of power right then. Most of your electricity comes from coal. The need for energy is on-going.

Paper publishing is definitely the more ecologically friendly approach.

I don't eat wheat bread, btw. ;)

I use a bidet and buy only TP and tissue that uses recycled paper. I do NOT use a printer. Everything goes into .PDF or..., and to a laptop or reader I can take to bed. My house and office run on solar with the electric company as back-up only. I pay the minimum for electricity because they won't not charge me even when we use zero.

And wild forests are NOT a cash crop. CORN is a cash crop. Wheat is a cash crop. Soy is a cash crop. And I can see the focus: CASH, all important. Forget habitat, forget wilderness and wildlife, forget anything that doesn't feed the greed of man. But we are running out of forests, wildlife habitat, and swiftly destroying everything beautiful all for what? Oops. We photocopied the wrong set of documents. Oops, we misprinted. Toss it and start again. Wasteful, unethical.

Well, trees can be treated just like humans I suppose...because humans are a cash crop too if you think about it. Disposable. That's why employees are known as "human resources." Ask Wal-Mart.

How long does it take to grow a big tree? Centuries. Gee, dear. Can we cut that big oak down. I want a tree more over there. And, besides, it's bigger than me and that makes me feel inferior..which is scary. *sarcasm*

Forests are NOT renewable. They will never come back the way they were. Once gone, it is gone forever, forever changed. Because a human wants what? Something to scribble on? Get technology.
 

Deleted member 42

Paper isn't made from "forests." It's made from trees grown for the purpose; fast growing "junk" trees, and from the same kinds of trees culled to allow other trees to thrive.

You can always replant trees. You can't recycle electricity or silicon. The argument from the enviormental perspective is not a logical one to make.

Heck, you'd have a better case if you argued for cunieform tablets; they're completely recylable.
 
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veinglory

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Where are you getting books made from first cut forest? I know many are made mainly from farmed pine (often radiata; New Zealand and several American states specialise producing and exporting pulpwood). Just another crop.
 
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Just the suggestion of pulping wild forests is inane; lumber companies know the value of wood.
 

CyberCobre

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Do some research. Right now, forest are cut down to make way for plantings of commercial single species or at most several commercially profitable species. Those kind of plantings do NOT create wildlife habitat, nor do trees planted in straight lines in isles that allow easy harvest by machines, genetically engineered to grow fast with few limbs, and sprayed with hoards of pesticides...Argh. Me thinking that anyone really cares is like me talking to a wall. Very stupid of me. Forgive my belief in e-. It's all about whatever you say it is, and forget anything that reeks of preserving anything at all. We are a disposably society, after all. And when we finally dispose ourselves, well, too bad, so sad. BTW, I live in the NW. Pulp wood is part of the logging industry here and national forests are logged for the paper industry as well cardboard, lumber and all other wood products. But then what do I know. I just watch and shudder. Meanwhile, I believe in e, and staunchly refuse to spend any money at all on anything less than e- e, btw, = ecologically ethical and e-format.

As to coal to referr back a bit, we run on solar and our electricity is hydro here in the NW. Give me Alternative energy, though. But, so be it. Go cut a tree. Be my guest. But don't expect me to buy your trad pubbed book, cuz I won't.
 

veinglory

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The tree farming done in New Zealand replaced pasture land more often than native bush. Things are rarely cut and dried.
In the end these are matters of choice. Nobody asked you to by a paperback, you did seem to ask us to only epublish (rather than explaining why you do). Information and points of view can be provided more neutrally and without such an element of scolding on either side--in fact it often works rather better that way.
 
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CyberCobre

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So who is scolding now?

And all I named as reprehensible were those who advised e-pubbing authors to seek trad pubbing. And, you are darned right I totally believe in e and am very anti trad publishing. Traditional publishing eats trees. And as to New Zealand, seen Tasmania recently? Lets see, we log, we napalm the logged land, then we poison any remaining wildlife. sarcasm-->COOOL<-- sarcasm
 

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I wasn't under the impression that Tasmania was in any way a part of New Zealand, but I suppose I should take your word for it.
 
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CyberCobre

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veinglory said:
I wasn't under the impression that Tasmania was in any way a part of New Zealand, but I suppose I should take your word for it.

No, but you are in the same neck of the woods. Down under. Taz is part of AU? I would have to look it up.

But, anyway, I'm a bit of a wild woman today with my head up with pain meds, so forgive if I come off as B. I really do believe e-pubbing is better, though. I have a library full of books I bought over the years, plus those I inherited, but having been in the paper book realm, I really do not like the waste I see at all. We can do better. Much better.