Pray for our President not on him!

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writerterri

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That's right, that what I said!

Why? Because I can.



When was the last time someone here prayed for him? Huh?

He is our President after all and this country was founded on Christianity by Christians.

He is human you know.

:Wha: :e2sling:
 

Opty

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writerterri said:
That's right, that what I said!

Why? Because I can.

I've never actually sat on the President, so I don't think I've ever "prayed" on him. ;)

When was the last time someone here prayed for him? Huh?

Me, last night, actually. I pray for all the leaders of the world to make wise decisions, keep the peace, and protect us from harm.

He is our President after all and this country was founded on Christianity by Christians.

I agree with one part of that: He is our President.

However, this country was not "founded on Christianity" nor was it "founded by Christians."

That's a poorly researched myth spread by far right wing religious conservatives who are trying to push an agenda of muddying the waters between separation of Church and state.

Granted, this is not to say that there weren't many Christians, both Protestant and Catholic, who lived in early America. Indeed, Pennsylvania was named for Quaker William Penn. However, to say that our most influential Founding Fathers were "Christians" or that they crafted our Constitution, Bill of Rights, or even our Declaration of Independence on a blatant foundation of Christianity is a gross distortion of history. Indeed, they gave a "nod to God," so to speak, but didn't actively push a particular religion into our laws.

Washington was a freemason and never openly (to my knowledge) ever declared which specific religion he followed.

Jefferson abhored what Christianity had become in his day. "I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson

Considering that he and Adams were two of the most influential figures in the construction of our Constitution, it's quite a Grand Canyon-like leap in logic to say that our Constitution was "founded on Christianity."

Adams was so-so on Christianity. He liked some of what Jesus had taught, but he was certainly not a practicing Christian.

Franklin was so-so on it, as well. It's also my understanding that he did not identify himself as a Christian, either.

James Madison's views on Christianity mirrored Jefferson's.

The majority of our most influential Founding Fathers were deists, not theists, who were influenced heavily by the Enlightenment movement, which is why Jefferson, Adams, and Madison quoted Locke so much.

Our Founding Fathers were trying to escape theocracy, not create a new one. They knew how important religion and faith were to people, so they created a system of laws which respected people's right to worship, but didn't endorse and wasn't specifically founded on any particular set of religious beliefs.

Not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to be accurate.

However, your message is a good one.
 
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dclary

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writerterri said:
That's right, that what I said!

Why? Because I can.



When was the last time someone here prayed for him? Huh?

He is our President after all and this country was founded on Christianity by Christians.

He is human you know.

:Wha: :e2sling:

Last night in church I prayed for the Amish community, and the emotional hardships they suffered in that despicable act. I praised the love and forgiveness they've shown through this ordeal and that America can see God's love through how they handle this crisis.

But I forgot to pray for the President.

I will tonight.

God bless you, Terri.
 

dclary

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Spork, I think what you're trying to say is that our founding fathers recognized that while religion was an important part of many of their constituents' lives, it was not necessarily an important part of their own. And because of this, they strove to create a governmental structure that neither imposed religious belief nor stymied it. Which is to say that not only was America founded on Christian beliefs, but all other beliefs as well.
 

Opty

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I was with you up until the last sentence, which is just a bit mendacious.
 

poetinahat

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Just a thought: It doesn't matter what religion the President is. It's possible for Christians to pray for anyone, regardless of the subject's faith (or lack thereof).

In my church (Anglican), the congregation prays for world and local leaders as a matter of routine in most services.

I'd prefer that the Queen of England were not our Head of State, but that's another issue. Maybe I'll host a tea party... Boston style.
 

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Thanks for the reminder, Terri.
 

writerterri

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DrSpork said:
I've never actually sat on the President, so I don't think I've ever "prayed" on him. ;)



Me, last night, actually. I pray for all the leaders of the world to make wise decisions, keep the peace, and protect us from harm.



I agree with one part of that: He is our President.

However, this country was not "founded on Christianity" nor was it "founded by Christians."

That's a poorly researched myth spread by far right wing religious conservatives who are trying to push an agenda of muddying the waters between separation of Church and state.

Granted, this is not to say that there weren't many Christians, both Protestant and Catholic, who lived in early America. Indeed, Pennsylvania was named for Quaker William Penn. However, to say that our most influential Founding Fathers were "Christians" or that they crafted our Constitution, Bill of Rights, or even our Declaration of Independence on a blatant foundation of Christianity is a gross distortion of history. Indeed, they gave a "nod to God," so to speak, but didn't actively push a particular religion into our laws.

Washington was a freemason and never openly (to my knowledge) ever declared which specific religion he followed.

Jefferson abhored what Christianity had become in his day. "I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson

Considering that he and Adams were two of the most influential figures in the construction of our Constitution, it's quite a Grand Canyon-like leap in logic to say that our Constitution was "founded on Christianity."

Adams was so-so on Christianity. He liked some of what Jesus had taught, but he was certainly not a practicing Christian.

Franklin was so-so on it, as well. It's also my understanding that he did not identify himself as a Christian, either.

James Madison's views on Christianity mirrored Jefferson's.

The majority of our most influential Founding Fathers were deists, not theists, who were influenced heavily by the Enlightenment movement, which is why Jefferson, Adams, and Madison quoted Locke so much.

Our Founding Fathers were trying to escape theocracy, not create a new one. They knew how important religion and faith were to people, so they created a system of laws which respected people's right to worship, but didn't endorse and wasn't specifically founded on any particular set of religious beliefs.

Not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to be accurate.

However, your message is a good one.

I have to admit that I cannot compete with you on this issue, however you were gracious with me and you know your stuff.

I do have to say that it looks to the naked eye like when the constitution was "made", for lack of a better word, they did include God and the Bible as a basis, did they not? But that's not my rebuttal, I think.

In "God we trust" on the money and "created" equal.


Thanks!

Terri
 

MacAllister

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Mmm. While we're praying, I'd add the innocents of any faith or nationality, caught up in the current world conflicts.
 

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MacAllister said:
Mmm. While we're praying, I'd add the innocents of any faith or nationality, caught up in the current world conflicts.
Good point, as usual Mac. But I won't pray for any leader who recklessly endangers the lives of his people by a folly of conflict with another country for glory (which will remain tarnished by the lies for invading another country).

Pray? Nyet! Better take a deep breath for humanity because your supposed god is just a myth like the WMD that precluded the deaths of many innocent people.

If our leader was in need of prayer then it is because the faith and belief in a tolerant society continues to be tested by war on ideology.

ETA: Dang, it's too early in my drunk to make any sense. Toodles...
 
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MacAllister

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Spooky, if I may quote a long time member from a long time ago--cynicism is bad mental hygiene.

I won't pretend to know who has a real god, or what that god thinks--but I can tell you I've seen prayer answered. Whether that's about god, or about focused human will, I don't know or care...and if more of us really could believe, focus and pray for peace between all god's children, then I believe amazing things could happen.
 

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Being a buddhist, I pray in a much different way. Our president is neither evil, nor good. He just is...


... a big f'n idiot.
 

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MacAllister said:
Spooky, if I may quote a long time member from a long time ago--cynicism is bad mental hygiene.

I won't pretend to know who has a real god, or what that god thinks--but I can tell you I've seen prayer answered. Whether that's about god, or about focused human will, I don't know or care...and if more of us really could believe, focus and pray for peace between all god's children, then I believe amazing things could happen.
Mac, I hope you know that I would never personally bad mouth any one persons right to belief in prayer or a god.

I have only a belief in humans. We (humans) need to get past the ideals of a perfect world after death and concentrate on the only true physical plane of existence. It's nice to think that life after death is better than living on earth, but that's a cop out. Do the best possible to help improve life here and if there is something better after death then great. But don't count on it as an excuse to not participate in the real world.

P.S. Have a safe trip and be careful of those gremlins on the plane.

ETA: Dang, two misspelled words and a bottle of barcardi later....what a freckin life!
 
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Bravo

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MacAllister said:
Spooky, if I may quote a long time member from a long time ago--cynicism is bad mental hygiene.

I won't pretend to know who has a real god, or what that god thinks--but I can tell you I've seen prayer answered. Whether that's about god, or about focused human will, I don't know or care...and if more of us really could believe, focus and pray for peace between all god's children, then I believe amazing things could happen.

that post is really disturbing, mac....

considering your new user title and sig are about azazel.

:ROFL:





eta: please dont do any ritual sacrifices to curse me. i dont have time to fight demons right now. thank you.
 

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I pray for him every day. I don't anything to happen that would cause him to cease being President prior to January 20, 2009. The alternative . . . know what I mean?

caw.
 

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How about this:

"Lord, I know we haven't spoken for some time, and I never did properly thank you for helping me find my car keys, but I have another humble request. Could you please make sure President Bush doesn't have any more bright ideas for the next couple of years? And while you're at it, please make sure his Veto stamp is on top of the desk, not in the back of a drawer. Amen."

"Wait, don't hang up! I just remembered—you never got back with me about that girlfriend thing. I'm not trying to push you here, I just wanted to remind you that I ain't getting any younger, if you know what I mean. Anyway, you know, let me know something as soon as you come up with a plan. That is all. Amen."
 

Bravo

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you really need to change your screenname.

:)
 

dclary

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On an aside, I thought Constantine's prayer, and God's answer at the 3rd act climax of the film Constantine was outstanding.
 

writerterri

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Here's how I look at it. (Since I do believe in God). He's incharge of all and he put the government in place and the leaders in their positions. He knows them past present and future and he sees all and knows all. So if I hate a president that he's put into place who am I to shake my fist at God?

Maybe I'm too passive? I'm not sure.

My prayer for our president is that God gives him the wisdom and skill to lead this country according to God's will and not his own and that he seeks God's face in all decisions he makes for the future of the USA. I pray that our president is lead by Holy hands and all knowing eyes and that God would give him the strength to carry out God's will and his duty and be honest and true to himself and to the people. I pray that his mind is clear to hear God's words and that the presidents integrity would be for the good of all and not just for tv.

Amen.
 

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writerterri said:
Here's how I look at it. (Since I do believe in God). He's incharge of all and he put the government in place and the leaders in their positions. He knows them past present and future and he sees all and knows all. So if I hate a president that he's put into place who am I to shake my fist at God?

Maybe I'm too passive? I'm not sure.

My prayer for our president is that God gives him the wisdom and skill to lead this country according to God's will and not his own and that he seeks God's face in all decisions he makes for the future of the USA. I pray that our president is lead by Holy hands and all knowing eyes and that God would give him the strength to carry out God's will and his duty and be honest and true to himself and to the people. I pray that his mind is clear to hear God's words and that the presidents integrity would be for the good of all and not just for tv.

Amen.

I'm going to throw up out of principle.
 
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