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maestrowork
10-02-2006, 07:16 PM
1. Guilty? Not guilty? Is he a child predator?
2. If guilty, what do you think about the hypocrisy, that he's an advocate against child abuse and exploitation?
3. Is there a witch-hunt going on, election-time politics? The Dems are blood-thirsty? Or sooner or later this will come out and we wonder what else he's hiding?
4. What will this do the mid-term election? They're already calling it a political storm. How would the Republicans deal with this?
5. Would there be a criminal investigation? But what of? His real conduct and alleged activities? Or "who" leaked the information about his emails and chat-room conversation?

jst5150
10-02-2006, 07:21 PM
1. Guilty? Not guilty? Is he a child predator?
The first car will reach California before the other reaches New York.


2. If guilty, what do you think about the hypocrisy, that he's an advocate against child abuse and exploitation?
ab(2)=bx(a2)


3. Is there a witch-hunt going on, election-time politics? The Dems are blood-thirsty? Or sooner or later this will come out and we wonder what else he's hiding?
Boo Radley should have defended himself more vigorously.


4. What will this to do the mid-term election? They're already calling it a political storm. How would the Republicans deal with this?
Michael Schumacher in a walk.


5. Would there be a criminal investigation? But what of? His real conduct and alleged activities? Or "who" leaked the information about his emails and chat-room conversation?
Usually, it's referred to as 16th Century Gothic; however, the Dutch vary on the term because authenticity of many of Vermeer's works as presented to many respectible art critics.

brianm
10-02-2006, 08:14 PM
I read one of the IM's between Foley and a young man. There is no gray area as to what he was up to, and it is apparent it was not their first episode online.

I don't care what party he is a member of and I don't care that it was a boy. I care that it was a minor.

One of the boys went to the proper authorities to turn in the email(s) he had received. The boy reported on Foley. How is that a leak?

A man in my area was arrested for indecent exposure. He drove to elementary schools and showed himself to young girls. A little girl reported him and the press covered the story. The man resigned his job.

It is the same with Foley. No leak... just the press reporting that another sexual deviant had been charged and he resigned his job because of the charges.

Bad timing for the Republican Party? Certainly. Should the story be suppressed because an election is on the horizon? No. We deserve to know everything about candidates. Good and bad.

SC Harrison
10-02-2006, 08:26 PM
Speaking as somebody whose daughter was a page in Raleigh during two different sessions (House then Senate), his behavior was reprehensible. If that had happened to my princess, I would have probably flipped out and taken some steps to get that person removed from office (at least).

And yes, Foley is a hypocrite for taking a vehement stance against the very thing he ended up doing, but that may have evolved from some inner conflict, and not necessarily a cloak to hide his dark thougts.

Election politics being what they are, you better believe the Dems will milk this as much as they can, but it's only worth a little mileage compared to the war.

I hope whatever statutes Foley violated are prosecuted for the world to see. There are thousands of pages and assistants who are minors serving elected officials across the land, and God knows how many of these kids find themselves the target of this kind of behavior.

rtilryarms
10-02-2006, 09:10 PM
Foley was the Co-chair of the drive to make Florida Sex Offender laws the harshest in the nation.

There are tens of thousands of people, male and female, on the Florida Sex Offender registry for doing EXACTLY what he did. Many more thousands are registered for much less of an ofense.

Any punishment less than the harshest he advocated is an injustice. Lets see if he still believes in these laws 6 months after he has to be punished.

This is history all over again. The loudest ones are the worst offenders. Its a shroud.

Susan Gable
10-02-2006, 09:32 PM
I read the emails. No question, like Ray said, about what the guy was up to. No good is a mild way of phrasing it.

I also think checking himself into alcohol rehab is a big joke. That's become the big solution these days. Apologize in public and check into rehab. Because hey, the booze made him do it, and it's "socially acceptable" these days to need rehab for booze or drugs, but society still frowns on men in power sexually exploiting kids. (or anybody doing it, for that matter.) So, he needed a better excuse.

I think it's horrible nothing was done when it was first reported. And I do love the poetic justice that he may have to face the very laws he helped craft. Which he was using as a smoke screen for his own inclinations.

He knew perfectly well what he was doing, too, and it wasn't outside his control, because he waited until the pages were no longer in the program but had left.

Susan G.

blacbird
10-03-2006, 12:47 AM
The booze excuse won't fly. Booze doesn't make people do things they don't want to do, it lets them do the things they really want to do but won't do when they're sober and possess enough common sense not to. Think of Mel Gibson's drunken anti-Jewish tirade some weeks back.

caw.

aadams73
10-03-2006, 12:49 AM
Here's a link to the instant messages:

http://pageoneq.com/news/2006/foley_093006.html

(found via http://blondesense.blogspot.com/)

The second most offensive thing about this whole controversy is that Foley is a barely-literate baboon.

mdin
10-03-2006, 12:55 AM
The dude obviously needs a serious time out. Just saying the stuff he said via IM fits the legal description of sexual abuse.

I'm more concerned about the whole looking away thing fellow GOP members did along with the obvious "We're going to hold on to this until it's as damaging as possible" with the Florida newspapers.

It seems everybody knew about it, and it wasn't until a third party started making noise did they come out of the woodwork to condemn it.

mdin
10-03-2006, 02:21 AM
And with today's news (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/emails_show_fol.html), he's screwed.

brianm
10-03-2006, 03:37 PM
If it turns out politics kept this covered up, it will change the way I vote in the future. If the preservation of power and the preservation of the Republican party's image is more important than the protection of our youth, then I will vote Democrat on every single ballot until this administration, senate, and congress have been shaken out and put to the street.

And please, no one say it has happened in the past with the Democrats. The Republican party has maintained they are the protectors of family values and morals. By covering this up, they are proving otherwise.

Unique
10-03-2006, 03:40 PM
Welcome to the Democratic party.

MattW
10-03-2006, 03:50 PM
Was it only Repubicans that knew about it and try to keep it on the QT? Did all of them know?? I'm sure the party "leaders" might have, but those aren't the people I would vote for anyway.

As for it being an election issue, I know the American people will deal with the parties involved and any coverup, and then the media will let it drop in favor of more relevent coverage for the informed voter base. Not the war or SS, but probably what Paris Hilton is doing, or exclusive interviews with John Mark Karr.

brianm
10-03-2006, 04:00 PM
No need for a welcome...


Welcome to the Democratic party.

I am already a registered Democrat. However, I did not always vote party, but instead voted for the person I felt most qualified.

SC Harrison
10-03-2006, 04:52 PM
Was it only Repubicans that knew about it and try to keep it on the QT? Did all of them know?? I'm sure the party "leaders" might have, but those aren't the people I would vote for anyway.



My understanding is that Hastert was made aware of the earlier e-mails, but Foley told him he would straighten his act up. Now Hastert is complaining that Foley lied to him about changing his ways, so he shouldn't be blamed. Republicans are also claiming that several newpapers knew about the e-mails, but chose not to publish anything, so it's not their fault.

You may not vote directly for the leaders themselves, but when the party gains a majority, every committee ends up being headed by that party. So yes, you actually are voting for the head guys.

maestrowork
10-03-2006, 06:49 PM
Was it only Repubicans that knew about it and try to keep it on the QT? Did all of them know?? I'm sure the party "leaders" might have, but those aren't the people I would vote for anyway.

Trust me, if the Dems knew, they would be the first to squeal.

robeiae
10-03-2006, 06:57 PM
Trust me, if the Dems knew, they would be the first to squeal.Wellllll...timing is often everything. It depends on which democrats you are talking about, no? Certainly, I wouldn't put it pass some members of both parties to hold off breaking a story like this until the time is right, like right before an election...

'Course, it goes without saying, imo, that Foley deserves all of the trouble he's getting, and more. And anyone who was trying to protect him for politically expedient reasons deserves plenty of trouble, as well.

maestrowork
10-03-2006, 07:55 PM
Yup, I am sure the election card could have been well played, but whoever was trying to protect Foley A) absolutely deserves troubles and B) made a bad move keeping this wrapped...

rtilryarms
10-03-2006, 08:38 PM
Yup, I am sure the election card could have been well played, but whoever was trying to protect Foley A) absolutely deserves troubles and B) made a bad move keeping this wrapped...


A) i agree
B) Unfortunately, the troubles are legal troubles. If one has knowledge about inappropriate activity with a minor, under Florida law, one MUST report it. Failure to do so is a 1st degree misdemeaner. If one is a professional Doctor, Lawyer or therapist, the license is at stake and it becomes a possible felony.

Anyone that knew of this should go to jail under the laws they themselves passed.

TheGaffer
10-04-2006, 01:29 AM
1. Yes. No. Yes.
2. It's creepy.
3. It's kind of hard to dig into this one and just call "witch-hunt." The emails are there. The IM's are there. He resigned. It's not like digging in the past to try to find if he's a Commie (or digging to see if there are other people preying on 16-year-old pages.)
4. It's not going to help the GOP, exactly. Whether it will help the Dems, it may just give them Foley's seat, which they could easily give back in 2008. But it's not "good" for anyone.
5. Yes, of course a criminal investigation. Of whether he broke the law, a law he helped push through Congress. It won't be an investigation of who leaked the info; it's hard to see how that's "criminal," it wasn't classified info by any means.

That is all in a nutshell. As billythrilly would say, Lock thread.

TheGaffer
10-04-2006, 01:34 AM
I also think checking himself into alcohol rehab is a big joke. That's become the big solution these days. Apologize in public and check into rehab.

Think of Mel Gibson's drunken anti-Jewish tirade some weeks back.

Yeah. Someone compared it to Mel Gibson at a party the other day, and I piped up and said, yes, but the difference is that Mel Gibson was pulled over for being drunk. You don't just decide to have online J---off sessions because you're a drunk. Mel Gibson could plausibly check into rehab as a drunk because he was DRUNK. He didn't check into rehab because he's an anti-Semite.


Certainly, I wouldn't put it pass some members of both parties to hold off breaking a story like this until the time is right, like right before an election...
Definitely. Absolutely. October surprises and all that. C.R.E.W., which is funded by George Soros (and already a lightning rod for the right), apparently passed on knowledge of the emails to the FBI back in July - a statement by them says they didn't have the IMs, which ABC News obtained. The lead Dem on the Page Committee (if I have that right) says he wasn't informed. So those two parties seem to be clear. So who let that info out? I don't know.

MacAllister
10-04-2006, 01:34 AM
Mostly, this is just a damn shame on all fronts. I don't see it as a partisan issue in any way. These kids go off to be pages, and it's a big deal to most of 'em.

Something like this happens...

*sigh*

robeiae
10-04-2006, 01:54 AM
Mostly, this is just a damn shame on all fronts. I don't see it as a partisan issue in any way. These kids go off to be pages, and it's a big deal to most of 'em.

Something like this happens...

*sigh*And there are those White House interns and what happens to them... *sigh*

Actually, I remember the page-boy scandal back in the early 80's. We developed our own version (my buddies and me) of Pac-Man, called Page-Boy. Page-Boy moves around the halls of Congress collecting paperwork, trying to avoid the lecherous bastards that work there. When he's in trouble, he can grab a camera crew, then the Congressmen turn blue and run away. If they're caught, they're gone--but a new creep arrives to take their place...

TheGaffer
10-04-2006, 01:59 AM
Actually, I remember the page-boy scandal back in the early 80's. We developed our own version (my buddies and me) of Pac-Man, called Page-Boy. Page-Boy moves around the halls of Congress collecting paperwork, trying to avoid the lecherous bastards that work there. When he's in trouble, he can grab a camera crew, then the Congressmen turn blue and run away. If they're caught, they're gone--but a new creep arrives to take their place...

You're old.

rtilryarms
10-04-2006, 03:21 AM
I was a Page in 1972 for the Florida Legislator, Tallahassee. All we did was collect folded up papers from one Congressman and delivered it to another. I was 15? A female page, 15 or 16 slipped me a folded note from her with flirting on it. For the next week we sent each other folded flirts. I presume some of the Congressmen did too.

Being in that scene makes one lush with power. But thankfully, no one older than 16 hit on me.

mdin
10-04-2006, 03:27 AM
The pacman thing is hysterical.


And there are those White House interns and what happens to them... *sigh*


Yeah, but when you give a cigar to an intern, you aren't breaking any laws.

brianm
10-04-2006, 03:42 AM
Hummm...


And there are those White House interns and what happens to them... *sigh*


An excellent comparison.... let's see...

A minor (the page) preyed on by an adult (Foley)

An adult (Lewinsky, the intern) choosing to have an affair with an adult (Clinton)

Oh, wait... it isn't comparable at all, is it?

*sigh*

blacbird
10-04-2006, 03:51 AM
Today Foley is claiming, through his attorney, that he was sexually abused as a teen. Yesterday he checked himself into a substance abuse rehab center. Tomorrow . . . what new cliché?

caw.

brianm
10-04-2006, 03:58 AM
Tomorrow . . . what new cliché?


He could always try the "Twinkie Defence." (no pun intended...)

blacbird
10-04-2006, 04:13 AM
(no pun intended...)

Right.

caw.

Ken Schneider
10-04-2006, 04:28 AM
I have to make a confession in light of the recent events surrounding this topic.

Large sigh.

I cannot write a publishable novel because my second grade teacher slapped my knuckles with a ruler when I wrote, rong.

Because of this traumatic event, I write improperly to spite her. Nan nar ne new nony. (Skips away down the street to writerightrehab.)

I feel better now.

TheGaffer
10-04-2006, 06:24 AM
Tomorrow . . . what new cliché?

The black guy gets killed first?

No, wait...

Someone says "We're not going to make it!"

Er...

I know! The handicapped kid walks again!

:)

blacbird
10-04-2006, 06:51 AM
The black guy gets killed first?

No, wait...

Someone says "We're not going to make it!"

Er...

I know! The handicapped kid walks again!

:)

I'm thinking something to do with Satan.

caw.

Jean Marie
10-04-2006, 07:55 AM
Today Foley is claiming, through his attorney, that he was sexually abused as a teen. Yesterday he checked himself into a substance abuse rehab center. Tomorrow . . . what new cliché?

caw.
Foley's a disgusting pig who's using every excuse in the book aside from taking personal responsibility. Not to mention, he's giving alcoholics a bad name.

Personally, I hope he and his cell-mate become best friends. You know, Bubba :D

billythrilly7th
10-04-2006, 08:30 AM
I never heard of him until this nightmare.

Man, is he a creepy dude.

blacbird
10-04-2006, 09:40 AM
I never heard of him until this nightmare.

Man, is he a creepy dude.

Well, he's not quite John Mark Karr. At least not yet.

caw.

robeiae
10-04-2006, 04:57 PM
Hummm...



An excellent comparison.... let's see...

A minor (the page) preyed on by an adult (Foley)

An adult (Lewinsky, the intern) choosing to have an affair with an adult (Clinton)

Oh, wait... it isn't comparable at all, is it?

*sigh*Well, I was pushing MAc's buttons...it's really not that comparable, but...

It's funny how we are capable of crawling into the minds of some people to know exactly what they were thinking. To this day, I'm amazed at the way the Lewinsky affair is characterized by some. I remember being told over and over again by the media and activist groups how affairs like hers represented an abuse of power by the person at the top...but she knew what she was doing.

TheGaffer
10-04-2006, 09:47 PM
I remember being told over and over again by the media and activist groups how affairs like hers represented an abuse of power by the person at the top...but she knew what she was doing.

And the funny thing about that is, at the time, some people suggested that and others thought that was a typical move by some to portray her as a crazed sex-craved harlot blah blah blah. Either way there was an abuse of power there by him -- just that the situations aren't really analogous as has been pointed out, but we're getting back into button-pushing. Anyway... carry on.

Papa'sLiver
10-04-2006, 10:20 PM
I love how FOX news listed Foley as a democrat while he answered questions.

Real classy, FOX.

Yeah, again, no one wants to take responsiblity for their actions anymore. It was the bottle's fault. It was the priest's. I'm an innocent victim. Wait! I'll get help!

Snow classifies them as "naughty emails". The repubs are saying it's smear by the Dems, yada yada yada.

Jesus, lame, lame, lame.

I guess this "october surprise" wasn't what Rove had in mind.

blacbird
10-04-2006, 11:24 PM
The Foxies have been fun to watch on this one. More enlightening were conservative commentators on MSNBC last night, Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough. I disagree with most of their political and philosophical positions, but neither are dopes. In this incident, they definitely "get it", and have nothing good to say about the handling of the matter by Hastert and other Republican leaders in the House. Oh, and the Washington Times, that bastion of the liberal elite eastern media, has now openly called for Hastert to resign.

caw.

Tsu Dho Nimh
10-04-2006, 11:39 PM
A minor (the page) preyed on by an adult (Foley)

An adult (Lewinsky, the intern) choosing to have an affair with an adult (Clinton)

Oh, wait... it isn't comparable at all, is it?


Yes, it is ... whether a 16 year old page or a 22 year old intern, there was a huge power imbalance in the relationship. Foley and Clinton had power and status, the page and intern had none.

Foley compounded his mistake by going after minors, but if it had been a 20-year old intern or staffer, he's still be abusing his position of power.

Shadow_Ferret
10-04-2006, 11:54 PM
Today Foley is claiming, through his attorney, that he was sexually abused as a teen. Yesterday he checked himself into a substance abuse rehab center. Tomorrow . . . what new cliché?

caw.

He's alcoholic.

He's gay.

He was abused.

But thank goodness he's not making excuses.

blacbird
10-05-2006, 12:19 AM
Yes, it is ... whether a 16 year old page or a 22 year old intern, there was a huge power imbalance in the relationship. Foley and Clinton had power and status, the page and intern had none.

Foley compounded his mistake by going after minors, but if it had been a 20-year old intern or staffer, he's still be abusing his position of power.

True, but the difference involves the possibility of jail.

caw.

brianm
10-05-2006, 02:32 AM
Hummm...


Yes, it is ... whether a 16 year old page or a 22 year old intern, there was a huge power imbalance in the relationship. Foley and Clinton had power and status, the page and intern had none.

Foley compounded his mistake by going after minors, but if it had been a 20-year old intern or staffer, he's still be abusing his position of power.

Read the Starr Report. It is obvious she wanted it as much as he did. IMO, she had the "screw a famous person syndrome." And Clinton took advantage of it. But, the affair continued willingly on both sides for quite some time.

Her words from the Starr Report..."I never expected to fall in love with the President. I was surprised that I did."

Had her friend Linda not outed the affair, it might still be going on today. And "Zippergate" would never have happened.

If the individuals Foley was going after were of age, then he'd probably be doing what Clinton did - deny, deny, deny. Except that the emails and IM's have been found and he can't deny it.

Time will tell if he serves time. What the GOP did to cover it up is still to be determined. But, it isn't looking like they were trying to protect anyone except the party.

Papa'sLiver
10-05-2006, 02:55 AM
Well, Tom Reynold's Chief of Staff said he told Haserts office two years ago about Foley.

G'bye Hasert.

blacbird
10-05-2006, 03:07 AM
Hastert is toast. We've seen plenty enough of these kinds of scandals evolve to know how big a tarbaby they can be. They tried desperately for months to save Delay, and Hastert doesn't have any of the karma or connections Delay had. Look how that worked. Hastert will resign the speaker's position immediately after the election. Congress is only in session for another week or so, and nobody will call him out before they quit town to go campaigning.

Dennis Hastert reminds me of Sergeant Schultz (the late actor John Banner), of Hogan's Heroes TV fame (even looks a bit like him), whose favorite line was:

"I know nothing, nothing!"

caw.

TheGaffer
10-05-2006, 03:31 AM
The Foxies have been fun to watch on this one. More enlightening were conservative commentators on MSNBC last night, Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough. I disagree with most of their political and philosophical positions, but neither are dopes.

True dat.

As for Clinton vs. Foley, second others above -- there's a difference between abusing your position by diddling whoever you want and doing it with someone that can't legally vote.

Jean Marie
10-05-2006, 03:44 AM
Abuse of power for diddling is wrong, IMO. Underage diddling is against the law and deserves lots of cage-time.

Hastert needs to follow Foley out the door.

I'm offended by the comparison of Hastert to Schultz. Seriously, offended :)

robeiae
10-05-2006, 03:58 AM
As for Clinton vs. Foley, second others above -- there's a difference between abusing your position by diddling whoever you want and doing it with someone that can't legally vote.For sure--I didn't actually equate them.

Foley needs to do some serious time, I think.

robeiae
10-05-2006, 04:04 AM
Read the Starr Report. It is obvious she wanted it as much as he did. IMO, she had the "screw a famous person syndrome." And Clinton took advantage of it. But, the affair continued willingly on both sides for quite some time.

Her words from the Starr Report..."I never expected to fall in love with the President. I was surprised that I did."Gimme a break. "It was obvious she wanted it"?

The whole point with Clinton was that it was abuse of power; suppose she said 'no' one day? What would have happened? We don't know, but that is exactly why the affair was wrong, from the standpoint of their professional relationship. He took advantage, he knowlingly put her in that position (minds out of gutter, please). Having an affair is one thing; having an affair with your subordinate is something else. So, please spare me the "she's a tramp" rhetoric...it's inconsequential.

Jean Marie
10-05-2006, 04:14 AM
Foley had better do some serious prison time, or else our justice system completely stinks.

brianm
10-05-2006, 05:20 AM
Robeiae,

If that is what you get from reading the Starr Report and all of her testimony, then that is your opinion. Mine is she wanted to have an affair with him.

And I never said she was a tramp. Although, I don't know what else you call someone who has an affair with someone else's husband. He's a scumbag...she's a ???? naive, poor, defenseless, woman who sent him 38 gifts, untold amounts of letters and cards... right... poor dear. I have no pity for her. She knew what she was doing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Gimme a break. "It was obvious she wanted it"?

The whole point with Clinton was that it was abuse of power;

And no... the whole point with Clinton is that he lied under oath.

But, we digress... this is about Foley.

robeiae
10-05-2006, 05:33 AM
If that is what you get from reading the Starr Report and all of her testimony, then that is your opinion. Mine is she wanted to have an affair with him.Again, it doesn't matter what she wanted--he was holding all the cards. That is the numero uno reason why women's rights advocates had been speaking out against these kinds of arrangements for years--though many went strangely silent on this incident, or reverted to the very same arguments your are making, arguments that they had once rejected categorically.

ETA: By the way, there is no standard for 'digression' on this particular board, as it's a sub-board of TIO. All that matters is rule #1: respect your fellow writer.

Jean Marie
10-05-2006, 05:34 AM
She's a tramp, slut, trash, whatever. He's an adulterer. Piece of scum, forgot. Not too much more to say about it, really.

Jean Marie
10-05-2006, 05:36 AM
Rob, I think you've got a serious identity problem. Nevermind the sexy girls you use for avatars...the back and forth...now you're sucking your thumb...I'm getting confused.

rtilryarms
10-05-2006, 06:04 AM
Foley had better do some serious prison time, or else our justice system completely stinks.

Uh....don't hold your breath, I'm afraid

brianm
10-05-2006, 06:06 AM
I just thought it might be nice to keep on thread about Foley and not go off about some other politician gone wrong story.


ETA: By the way, there is no standard for 'digression' on this particular board, as it's a sub-board of TIO.

robeiae
10-05-2006, 06:12 AM
I just thought it might be nice to keep on thread about Foley and not go off about some other politician gone wrong story.Eh, it might be nice--except what else is there to say about Foley? Everyone seems to be in agreement about him. Tangents are what drive the discourse.

blacbird
10-05-2006, 07:47 AM
For sure--I didn't actually equate them.

Semantic waffling. Non-denial denial. You implied it, and I believe you intended to.


Foley needs to do some serious time, I think.

Remains to be seen, and is being investigated, as it properly should. In any case, the guy's political career imploded with breathtaking swiftness, his personal life would seem to be in a similar trajectory, and it's hard to see where he goes from here, even if it isn't to jail. But let's let the legal system proceed, shall we? It doesn't seem likely he's going to benefit from any "good ol' boy" network on this one.

Foley's goose has a fork in it. The more interesting story now is Dennis Hastert: What did he not want to know, and when did he not want to know it?

And why did he not want to know it?

caw.

caw.

robeiae
10-05-2006, 07:55 AM
Semantic waffling. Non-denial denial. You implied it, and I believe you intended to.Please. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Mac's post and my post immediately afterward (which is the intended context of it):

Something like this happens...

*sigh*



And there are those White House interns and what happens to them... *sigh*

Still, I'm more than happy the door was opened for the tangent, as usual.

MacAllister
10-05-2006, 08:00 AM
Here's a good tangent (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/4/142948/585).

Editorial Screw Up, or Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy?

Bravo
10-05-2006, 08:10 AM
there's way too much to post on this, so im just going to direct you guys to this (just check out www.thinkprogress.org for more:

newt on why they didnt report it:


Well, you could have second thoughts about it, but I think had they overly aggressively reacted to the initial round, they would have also been accused of gay bashing.




the white house opposes an independent investigation of the scandal (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/01/white-house-opposes-indep). and wont call for any resignations.


Rush Limbaugh:
I’m just telling you that the — the — the orgy and the orgasm that has been taking place in the media since Friday and with the Democrats is — it’s all coordinated, and it’s all — it’s all oriented toward the election. There’s no concern about the kid — no concern about the children.



Tony Blankley, Washington Times editor:
While I don’t have any proof, I will be amazed if Democratic operatives and at least a few Democratic congressmen didn’t know about this and fed it to the media through various obscure blogs and to AB.






REPORTER: Congressman Reynolds put out a statement on Saturday saying that he told you in the spring. Do you think he’s lying?
HASTERT: No, I’m not saying. I just don’t recall him telling me that. If he would have told me that, he would have told me that in the context of maybe a half a dozen or a dozen other things. I don’t remember that.
REPORTER: Other allegations of improper e-mails?
HASTERT: No, just other things that might have affected campaigns.


http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/02/hastert-foley-campaigns/


Snow: simply "naughty emails":

“I hate to tell you, but it’s not always pretty up there on Capitol Hill. And there have been other scandals, as you know, that have been more than simply naughty e-mails.”



well, if any of you guys need convincing how pathetic these hypocrites are, that should be a good start.


hopefully.

blacbird
10-05-2006, 08:18 AM
Oh, and by the way, did anyone else notice that Faux News last night identified Foley as a Democrat in a prime-time "news" report?

Oh, yes, I'm, like, sooooooo sure that was a simple editorial error. After all, he'd been identified as a Republican in all the other news reports on other channels, so it's just fair and balanced, right?

cawcawcawcawcawcawcawcawcaw.

MacAllister
10-05-2006, 08:22 AM
Blacbird--that was the link I posted, above. The AP misidentified his party affiliation, too, but not like Fox News. They ran (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/4/142948/585) the subtitle: "did Dems ignore Foley emails to preserve seat?"

blacbird
10-05-2006, 08:31 AM
Sorry, Mac, I missed the link (thread's become more complex than I am).

But, an aside, kudos to Joe Scarborough. He's MSN's premier conservative commentator, and he drives me nuts every now and then, but he gets high marks from me for smarts and honesty (I've mentioned this elsewhere). He has none of the egotistical bluster of O'Reilly, and none of the ideological blindness of Sean Hannity, is at least as smart as the former, and way beyond the latter, and politically is at least as conservative as either. He's got it figured out, and is pulling no punches on calling this a disaster for Republicans ("They've hit the iceberg," he said tonight). He thinks it's plain too late to do anything about this election, and he's predicting a far worse outcome for Republicans than other conservatives have yet to do, and, in fact, worse than stupid old me has predicted for them. We'll have to see, but it's nice to see candor among political analysts now and then. I wish he was still in Congress. Republicans need more of his kind (so do Democrats, by the way).

Could be that this election will allow them to produce more in coming years. Maybe we can get back to arguing philosophy and issues and programs, and not dishonesty and cant and corruption.

caw.

maestrowork
10-05-2006, 05:23 PM
Here's a good tangent (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/4/142948/585).

Editorial Screw Up, or Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy?

I can't imagine Fox News would make such a big booboo. I do suspect certain manipulation there. They know some people would be easily fooled: "Oh, I told you, the Dems are all perverts!"

robeiae
10-05-2006, 05:28 PM
They know some people would be easily fooled: "Oh, I told you, the Dems are all perverts!"

Well, they've learned from the master:

"The president and his right-wing Supreme Court think it is 'okay' to have the government take your house if they feel like putting a hotel where your house is..."--Howard Dean

:roll:
I'm so happy.

maestrowork
10-05-2006, 05:29 PM
I am actually tired of both sides playing politics at this point. Yes, I understand it's the election, and I understand the timing of the news has something to do with it. And I understand how politics is.

But please... treat it as what it really is. A congressman's inappropriate and possibly criminal conduct, and the possible coverup. The safety of our young people...

It's sickening when someone like Rush Limbaugh chooses to attack the media and the Democrats without going deep inside his own heart and say, "You know what, Foley is sick and he deserves this, and so will the people who knew and tried to cover this up." Grow some spine already.

TheGaffer
10-05-2006, 06:01 PM
"The president and his right-wing Supreme Court think it is 'okay' to have the government take your house if they feel like putting a hotel where your house is..."--Howard Dean

Dude, there's tangents, and then there's outright reaching. Not everything has to do with Howard Dean's quote about the emminent domain decision.

Meanwhile, among the multitude of stupid statements I've heard from various people, I think the dumbest has to be from Matt Drudge. I mean, Hastert is an idiot for telling Rush that they were "going on offense," which is the kind of thing a right-wing talk show host would say. You'd expect a little more responsibility from the House Speaker. And we've seen all loads of dopey statements from people on both sides (Katherine Harris of course tilts the "stupid" to the GOP side just by virtue of opening her mouth, of course). But I think I would have expected a lot of it -- the "Break Glass and Blame George Soros" responses, the "don't be partisan blah blah blah" stuff, the lame excuses, the comparisons to past scandals. All par for the course.

But here's Drudge:
"And if anything, these kids are less innocent, these 16- and 17-year-old beasts....You're not going to tell me these are innocent babies. Have you read the transcripts that ABC posted going into the weekend of these instant messages, back and forth? The kids are egging the congressman on!"

What a douche.

maestrowork
10-05-2006, 06:06 PM
Drudge is so totally missing the point. He gives me the creeps.

robeiae
10-05-2006, 06:49 PM
Dude, there's tangents, and then there's outright reaching. Not everything has to do with Howard Dean's quote about the emminent domain decision.I know. It's a glorious thing, the destruction of relevance...:D

Papa'sLiver
10-05-2006, 11:00 PM
Well, Hasert stays? They've called an investigation, that cute phrase for "let's put it off until the public forgets".

Sheryl Nantus
10-05-2006, 11:22 PM
I personally think that it's awful that the jerk is now hiding behind the "oh, I'm gay" defense.

being homosexual is NOT the same as being a pedeophile and he should be beaten senseless for encouraging this connection.

:(

Papa'sLiver
10-05-2006, 11:58 PM
I personally think that it's awful that the jerk is now hiding behind the "oh, I'm gay" defense.

being homosexual is NOT the same as being a pedeophile and he should be beaten senseless for encouraging this connection.

:(

I love how people use rehab as a shield. really shows character. :roll:

brianm
10-06-2006, 03:33 AM
This entire thing will become so convoluted by November that even Foley won't know who did what and who was responsible. Then after the election, the GOP will do what they should have done two years ago and say once again they are the party that protects family values in America.

I'm turning off the news channels for the day and watching CartoonTV. At least Tom and Jerry know how to fight honestly...

maestrowork
10-06-2006, 04:02 AM
Right..... blame it on alcoholism.... blame it on homosexuality... when none of that has anything to do with pedophilia... that's great, now all pedophiles can just use these excuses and go to rehab and get cured!