We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver
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Good to hear. It's on my Amazon wish list. 
It's a novel by Jodi Picoult for anyone who doesn't recognize the title.
It's a novel by Jodi Picoult for anyone who doesn't recognize the title.
I have mixed feelings about it. Most of the novel was great, but I disagreed with some things in the book's ending, so overall I feel kind of let down.
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We Need to Talk about Kevin
On another thread I mentioned that I hated the narrator of this book. I have to admit now, having finished it, that she grew on me over time. The end of the book is just fantastic. The whole thing becomes unputdownable after you've slogged through the torgid style at the beginning - and grown used to it.
Who else has read it and needs to talk?
On another thread I mentioned that I hated the narrator of this book. I have to admit now, having finished it, that she grew on me over time. The end of the book is just fantastic. The whole thing becomes unputdownable after you've slogged through the torgid style at the beginning - and grown used to it.
Who else has read it and needs to talk?
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Okeydokey. Never heard of it, and what you were referring to wasn't clear from the OP. Sorry about the stupidity.
caw
caw
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No stupidity involved! For someone who's never heard of it the thread title is indeed misleading!
Very good book, narrated by the mother of school-shooting kid.
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By the way, the author of this book had already published 6 novels when she wrote this,. Her US agent refused to shop it, so she looked for a UK agent. 30 UK agents rejected it.
She dedicated it to all unpublished and struggling writers!
She dedicated it to all unpublished and struggling writers!
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Sorry - I got that last wrong. I found this except in an Observer article. It should encourage people like you, Blacbird! (my bold)
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Thanks for posting that Aruna-very inspiring. I loved that book btw. I was given it as a christamas present and I basically read and finished it by the next night. Shriver is a genius with tension and pace. Worth a re-read just to study how she does it!
I bought this book, as it was going cheap, a couple of months ago. I don't know why, but I thought that maybe the story was about a kid with autism or something and that his mum was going to talk to his dad about him etc?
I was going to take this book into hospital with me on the 21st of this month, but finding out he was a weirdo-shootist on here, I won't bother.
Elodie
I was going to take this book into hospital with me on the 21st of this month, but finding out he was a weirdo-shootist on here, I won't bother.
Elodie
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Yes, it's very dark. But if you're ever in the mood for something dark and serious, give it a try! Probably nor recommendable for a hospital visit. Take something light and upliftng instead!
I'm taking 'My sister's keeper' by Jodi Picoult and 'Day of the jackal' by Frederick Forsythe instead lol
Aruna,
This is one of those books that just shattered me. I loved it, thought it was amazing, and was sick for days after reading it because I just couldn't let go of the images which were so, so disturbing. I'm curious how folks who have kids felt reading it. I don't (yet) and i know that Lionel Shriver has been quite public about her desire not to have children, which I think adds another layer to the book (a sort of "worst case scenario" fantasy). I'm sure the impact of the book is quite different for those reading it post-VA Tech as well (I read it about two years ago).
grommet
This is one of those books that just shattered me. I loved it, thought it was amazing, and was sick for days after reading it because I just couldn't let go of the images which were so, so disturbing. I'm curious how folks who have kids felt reading it. I don't (yet) and i know that Lionel Shriver has been quite public about her desire not to have children, which I think adds another layer to the book (a sort of "worst case scenario" fantasy). I'm sure the impact of the book is quite different for those reading it post-VA Tech as well (I read it about two years ago).
grommet
I'm ashamed to say I'd never heard of this book. Thanks aruna for posting this; I'll definitely pick it up next time I'm at the bookstore.
Speaking of rejections. The American nonfiction book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man went through 33 rejections before a tiny San Francisco-based publisher bought it. It received no advance. Went on to sell hundreds of thousands of copies. Harrison Ford will star in the film.
Speaking of rejections. The American nonfiction book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man went through 33 rejections before a tiny San Francisco-based publisher bought it. It received no advance. Went on to sell hundreds of thousands of copies. Harrison Ford will star in the film.
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Genius of a book. Whereas many of us are drilled into writing crisp, clean sentences, Lionel can write lengthy, complex sentence after sentence. The amazing thing is that it keeps it's flow and voice, and never feels bogged down (at least to me).
Brilliant writer. Did get a bit frustrated with the husband's ignorance on Kevin's mental condition. But, other than that, gem of a book.
Brilliant writer. Did get a bit frustrated with the husband's ignorance on Kevin's mental condition. But, other than that, gem of a book.
I loved this book. It's on my favourites list. I think it calls for a re-read soon so I can give a more detailed opinion than 'I loved it'.
The ending is just...wow. And I completely sympathise with the un-maternal narrator, strangely, given my background. I think that goes to show the power of Shriver's writing.
The ending is just...wow. And I completely sympathise with the un-maternal narrator, strangely, given my background. I think that goes to show the power of Shriver's writing.
Has SPOILERS if you need that warning on this forum.
I disliked this book, the more so because I think Shriver is talented. The pacing is good, her style is good, she has a way with observations.
I speed-read the book, though. Something about the writing I didn't trust. Her characterisations were too negative.
I saw the ending coming, because by that stage I fully didn't trust the writer, and could see no other way she would go other than the fake shock genre-crime twist-end way she chose. Disappointing. The mother character really was the 'good' character and Kevin really was the 'evil' character. I had initially hoped the story was more complex than that. I had hoped the mother character was a self-obsessed cold male-hating woman--at least she was interesting that way, in her hate-projection onto her son. But no, as I suspected, Kevin was just born evil. Boring. Irritating. Stupid. Made the whole story pointless.
I disliked this book, the more so because I think Shriver is talented. The pacing is good, her style is good, she has a way with observations.
I speed-read the book, though. Something about the writing I didn't trust. Her characterisations were too negative.
I saw the ending coming, because by that stage I fully didn't trust the writer, and could see no other way she would go other than the fake shock genre-crime twist-end way she chose. Disappointing. The mother character really was the 'good' character and Kevin really was the 'evil' character. I had initially hoped the story was more complex than that. I had hoped the mother character was a self-obsessed cold male-hating woman--at least she was interesting that way, in her hate-projection onto her son. But no, as I suspected, Kevin was just born evil. Boring. Irritating. Stupid. Made the whole story pointless.
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Hi loiterer,
Welcome to AW -BTW
Hot juicy debates all round!I couldn't disagree more. Yes, it was apparent that the narrator couldn't be trusted but that, IMO, was the whole point. Herein lies Shriver's writing mastery. The narrator was too negative for a reason. By choosing this voice, Shriver highlights the kind of negative parent/child cycle which inevitably creates the 'evil' (sociopathic tendencies) in Kevin. Indeed, the mother was far from 'good'-I think Shriver encourages us to buy into the narrator's false sense of self-righteousness. For me, she was a 'self obsessed cold male hating woman' and the complexity was created when we, the reader, are forced to grapple with our sympathies or over identifications with her--the very things that we also know contribute to the 'evil' nature of her son. I loved that we're told, from the outset that Kevin was born nasty and that all the way through we're left to ponder on that old 'nature vs nurture debate. It was IMO a complex sociological study which raised many interesting questions in my mind. And the ending? It was a heart stopping moment and, as other posters have said, left me stunned for days.
To Grommet: I have a 10 year old son but I'm not the kind of soppy do-good parent, and believe me I know them, that would shun this book because of its negative take on parenthood. I also teach kids who have been through extremely negative dysfunctional families (worse than Kev!) and all of these kids have been screwed around by their parents--the number one factor in 'at risk' behaviour, IMO. Shriver's book raises questions not about having kids but how to have kids-If you know what I mean. So no I wasnt repulsed...just saddened that people have kids when they really ought not to! And anyway who cares! It was a bloody good read
Licity-lou,
That's a great take on the book and similar to my own thoughts. The narrator so clearly didn't want to be a parent from the get go and you're absolutely right that for every negative thing Kevin did, there was a corresponding thing that she did as a mother that in some way encouraged it. When I said worst case scenario, I meant from both ends: rearing the child from hell but also realizing that you are the worst kind of parent possible.
I'll never get the diaper change scene out of my head. That to me was the most horrifying scene of the book, if only for how in her own mind she justified abusing her own son.
I also knew the ending was coming, but I didn't take it as a cheap twist so much as evidence of the mother's own psychosis. She so desperately wanted things to be back the way they were, when they still could've done something, as parents, to "fix" Kevin.
Will, my agent repped "Confessions" The writer actually suggested the San Fran publisher to him after they had received so many rejections, so it's not only a tale of perseverence, but also a great example of a writer feeling comfortable enough to suggest non-traditional ideas to his agent and the agent being open to try anything for the sake of his client.
grommet
That's a great take on the book and similar to my own thoughts. The narrator so clearly didn't want to be a parent from the get go and you're absolutely right that for every negative thing Kevin did, there was a corresponding thing that she did as a mother that in some way encouraged it. When I said worst case scenario, I meant from both ends: rearing the child from hell but also realizing that you are the worst kind of parent possible.
I'll never get the diaper change scene out of my head. That to me was the most horrifying scene of the book, if only for how in her own mind she justified abusing her own son.
I also knew the ending was coming, but I didn't take it as a cheap twist so much as evidence of the mother's own psychosis. She so desperately wanted things to be back the way they were, when they still could've done something, as parents, to "fix" Kevin.
Will, my agent repped "Confessions"
The writer actually suggested the San Fran publisher to him after they had received so many rejections, so it's not only a tale of perseverence, but also a great example of a writer feeling comfortable enough to suggest non-traditional ideas to his agent and the agent being open to try anything for the sake of his client.grommet
I just finished this book and so I wanted to comment. It certainly leaves a lot of thoughts flying around.
It surprises me that people here thought the ending was so crisp and clean. I knew the ending was coming as well, but still thought the nature-nurture question was relavent.
Not to mention that due to the fact that I didnt trust the narrator, I didnt completely trust the final image either. I thought it was quite ambivalent. I dont think either parent ever came off as being a good person, they were both human to a default. Thats what I thought was so effective about the book.
I think Im suggesting this to my book group for the fall.
(apologies for the poor grammar, for some reason any time I add an apostrophe I get dragged down to some annoying bar at the bottom of the page)
It surprises me that people here thought the ending was so crisp and clean. I knew the ending was coming as well, but still thought the nature-nurture question was relavent.
Not to mention that due to the fact that I didnt trust the narrator, I didnt completely trust the final image either. I thought it was quite ambivalent. I dont think either parent ever came off as being a good person, they were both human to a default. Thats what I thought was so effective about the book.
I think Im suggesting this to my book group for the fall.
(apologies for the poor grammar, for some reason any time I add an apostrophe I get dragged down to some annoying bar at the bottom of the page)
I loved this book. It's dark, but that doesn't bother me at all. I think it was beautifully written, and a brilliant social commentary. I completely trusted the narrator because whe was so very human.
And yes, I have children (3). Being a mom does not make me a parenting expert, but it certainly has taught me the true meaning of one size does NOT fit all. That applies to each parent, each child, and each individual family.
By the way, I read this book sitting next to my daughter's bed in the hospital. Because I have a child with a neurological disorder, I think it made the book that much more poignant for me. Not the same as Kevin (by far), but very true to the reality of what is expected to be vs what is.
And yes, I have children (3). Being a mom does not make me a parenting expert, but it certainly has taught me the true meaning of one size does NOT fit all. That applies to each parent, each child, and each individual family.
By the way, I read this book sitting next to my daughter's bed in the hospital. Because I have a child with a neurological disorder, I think it made the book that much more poignant for me. Not the same as Kevin (by far), but very true to the reality of what is expected to be vs what is.
This was my introduction to Lionel Shriver. It was the most amazing book. The ending was so unexpected. I have gone on to buy her other books, mostly I have had to order them from obscure sites as they are out of print. Her last book "Post-Birthday World" was, to me, brilliant. I find myself being able to identify with her characters, which may or may not be a good thing, lol.
I found Kevin's mother's viewpoint to be very insightful. It would be beyond hideous to be the mother of the object of utter hatred. There would be so much guilt, not only toward the victims, but towards ones own existence, questioning the role that one may have played in creating such a monster.
As a mother who can be sometimes ambivalent, I started to worry that I may be raising the next Dahmer, I mean they come from somewhere, right?
I found Kevin's mother's viewpoint to be very insightful. It would be beyond hideous to be the mother of the object of utter hatred. There would be so much guilt, not only toward the victims, but towards ones own existence, questioning the role that one may have played in creating such a monster.
As a mother who can be sometimes ambivalent, I started to worry that I may be raising the next Dahmer, I mean they come from somewhere, right?
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Whether he was truly ignorant or just determined to pretend everything was fine is up for debate.
As a mother the book didn't bother me because my babies were nothing like Kevin. It would be much worse to read this book as a childless person who wants children one day. I don't know that there are many babies that act like Kevin did as a baby. A child with no interest in anything. That to me was one of the most horrifying parts of the book. How awful it would be to have a baby like that.