Mary Shelly and actual history

toto1958

Im trying to find out if the story of Frankenstein has to do with actual history.

The question may seem far fetched, but its got me curious.

Here it goes;

France had a dynasty called "Merovingian" ,that lasted from 500 to 750. The strange part of this is that the country wasn't called France at that time, it was called "Franken"

France didn't start to be called France until the Carolingian dynasty was in power.

When I had realized what france was called, before it was called France, the first thing I thought of was Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. I was wondering if Mary Shelly was actually talking about France as being like a Frankenstein.

I got on the Internet and looked up a time line history of events in 1818 when the book was published to see if there was a war going on between France and England, but they weren't at war. In my mind, if there was a war going on between the two countries, then I thought that would be a motivations for her to write it, as a way to vent her anger over the war. Since there was no war between the two, my motivation to go down this way of thinking stopped.

I just find it real strange that France use to be called Franken, and Mary Shelly's book is called Frankenstein.I'm wondering if Mary shelly could of read things about Franken and its dynasty to movitate her to wrie the book.

So, is there any link between France being called Franken before it was called France and the book Frankenstein?

This is a very legitimate question. It may sound dumb but it's legitimate.

also,

which really doesn't have to do with this.

I noticed that the new dynasty was called "Carolingian", when I looked at that, it automatically reminded me of the states of Carolina and North Carolina. I wonder if those states come from the word "Carolingian"
 

mammamaia

the french were called 'franks' in early days... franconia was the historic kernel that formed today's germany and france... so, in german, 'frankenstein' could mean 'french stone' [or rock]

there are books about mary shelley that may contain info on why she chose that name for the doctor who wanted to create life...

hope this helps a bit... love and hugs, maia

ps: i love solving mysteries, too!... let me know if you ever get to the bottom of this one, ok?
 

toto1958

in German, 'Frankenstein' could mean 'French stone' [or rock]

This statement makes me wonder if Dr. Frankensteins intention was to just create life or was he trying to create immortal life. Its one thing if he was trying to get body parts to just create life, which can be viewed as a person trying reverse tragic deaths, or for some good reason , it could even be viewed as a derogatory way such as "master slave relationship", but its another thing if Dr. Frankenstein wanted to create immortal life. That could not just give the view of seeking immoral life but also to have master slave relationships emerge. So, my view of Frankenstein is changing with more questions now of the intention of the story.

I've read about Mary Shelly a long time ago, I know about her parents and that she wrote Frankenstein in a weekend trip after her and who ever it was suggested every one write a scary story and she came out with this. Almost like a fluke kind of thing.

But there was never once mentioned where she got the name Frankenstein.

People in time have been trying to find out the meaning of Frankenstein. I did read that some people believe that it was because of the loss of her baby, others believe that it is her anger at doctors, others believe variant other things, but no one is for sure why she wrote the book.

When I had seen the word Franks to be the name of France before it was called France, I instantly wondered if there was a connection there. I say this out of irrelevance to whether anyone has had these same thoughts run through their mind.

I wonder if she could of been under the care of a French doctor and wrote the book out of anger for the doctor.

This is wild speculation and guessing on my part. Like talking out loud and seeing how they sound.

I believe, since finding the word Franks, that the solution to figuring out what Mary Shelly was trying to say lays with two things.

1) The word Frankenstein
2) The intention to the use of the word Frankenstein

I believe that in any story , that there is at least one word in the story that leads to the intention for the story. I believe that every writer gives away the reason and intention for their writing.

I believe very seriously that Mary Shelly was very angry and very sad about something that motivated her. The story of Frankenstein reeks of anger and sadness. Like the way a person would be like and behave like after losing something permanently.

But then again she may not of projecting herself and self experience in that story but of some one else.

I can very clearly see why people believe that Mary Shelly could of written the book over the loss of her baby. If she suffered from permanent shock syndrome then there is a good chance that those feelings could have been locked in her like a vacuum. permanent shock syndrome is a common thing to happen to women when their baby dies at birth, there are scores of women out there who have permanent shock syndrome. (permanent shock syndrome is called by another name which I have forgotten at the time of writing this)

I believe that what ever it was that Mary Shelly experienced or had seen through someone else or others was monstrous and monstrous to her and it brought about this fear, anger and sadness that Frankenstein brings about. I wonder if the fear or the scariness of Frankenstein is suppose to bring out the fear or scariness that Mary Shelly went through or had seen others go through or what ever she realised and wa projecting it in the book so to get others to experience that fear or that spareness, or maybe to use it to awaken people to what shes trying to say in the movie.

Im also wondering if shes is depicting life as Dr. Frankenstein. I wonder if she was viewing life like it was Frankenstein (to her)

I'm still trying to focus on how direct or indirect Mary Shelly is being with bringing her story across. Im trying to look for thngs that may look obvious but may have something unobvious to them. An indirect, indirect kind of thing.

Im going to stop here, I could go on. These are thing's going through my mind.
 

veingloree

I have a vague memory that she actually knew someone of this name, I suggest checking biographical detail before getting to carried away. I recall an enormous essay by frued about how Napoleons'; life was shaped by seeing a vulture at an early age, much use of vulture mythology and imagery -- then Freud found he had a bad translation and Napoleon had actually seen a crow.
 

mammamaia

as freud also once noted...

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar!"
 

toto1958

I like taking stories like Frankenstein and trying tofigure out what the author is saying. It seems that no one else enjoys this, or at least that ive met. hmmmm
 

mammamaia

thing is, it's an exercise in futility, since no one can ever really know... unless the author actually said so somewhere, that is... and here, toto, you'll find most of the folks who post are working hard to get their writing finished and/or sold, so don't have time for idle speculation, no matter how enjoyable it might be... so, don't take it personally, ok?... hugs, maia
 

SRHowen

I always hated

analyzing why an author wrote what.

Why do you write what you do? I have no idea. I sit, I get idea, I bang keys. I am sure that at some point (when I am a best seller :grin ) that someone will say why did SR write this?

I have some up with character names because I was drinking a Pepsi and decided to rearrange some letters on the can.

No hidden meaning.

:shrug

Probably why I did poorly in those classes where endless hours were spent speaking of motivation and analyzing the why of books.

Shawn
 

toto1958

Re: I always hated

I just believe that there was something underneath of the whole story that she was expressing.

Supposedly Nostradamus actually lived and those predictions he manifested, was supposedly true (that he did them). In his writings he created something called Quatrains. Short little paragraphs of writings. He wrote those predictions out in those quatrains in a way that it made it very difficult for the people of his present day to be able to decipher.

When I look at Mary Shelly's writings, I believe that she wrote Frankenstein and has underneath of it something that she is saying. Its hard for me to believe that she just wrote that just because it was a good story. Yet at the same time I don't believe that every good story has some hidden meaning behind it.

you can't tell me that when she was writing that story it didn't induce deep reflection of the things she was writing about. Yet I believe that the substance of the story was all ready in her head: meaning that she was all ready in deep reflection of things before taking pen in hand.

Don't most writers have a double agenda int their writings. Having one story on the surface with secondary story underneath or at least some kind of deep meanings or symbolics that lead to some kind of meaning under the surface of the over all story?

How can a person write a story like that and not have something going on under the surface.

I feel the same way with Frank Baum. Every though he elaberated on that story and created many different other stories steaming from the wizard of oz that theres still something underneath . But recently I read that Mr Baum had someone else write the wizard of oz with him. Even though my impression is that he wrote it alone, if he did have partner then i would have to dismiss these thoughts. It would useless then.

I do believe that stories like the wizard of oz and Frankenstein can be written without motive or anything covert. Yet, the more complex they are , like the wizard of oz and Frankenstein, its harder for me to believe this because of the complexity of them.
 

mammamaia

not really right for 'mentoring' thread...

toto... i'm going to transfer this [i hope!] to the 'office party' board, as it's not connected to mentoring and will, i'm sure, get more exposure, giving you more input on your topic...

love and hugs, maia
[w/ my mentoring mod hat on]
 

Greenwolf103

Re: I always hated

In a previous post I made about Shelley, I noted that, from what I saw on the program, she got the name "Frankenstein" from a German family she and her husband met while vacationing there.

That program also talked about how Shelley pretty much dreamed the story of the monster (which is often mistakenly referred to as Frankenstein; remember, that was the doctor's name). There were certain events in her life that contributed to the creation of the story, how electricity was being tested on corpses to see if it could result in reanimation.

As to your reference of Carolingian related to the Carolinas: I was taught in history that the states got their name from England's King Charles I (Latin "Carolus").

Don't most writers have a double agenda in their writings. Having one story on the surface with secondary story underneath or at least some kind of deep meanings or symbolics that lead to some kind of meaning under the surface of the over all story?

Not always. Sometimes, a story is just a story. The fact that it's related to current events in some way or can be tied to history in some way is only a coicidence. Usually, anyway. :)
 

rtilryarms

what an author is trying to say

It seemed important enough to my Fantasy and Literature teachers to grade me on my interpretation of the message portrayed by the Author.
I never did well on those exams. I asked why I couldn't just read them and enjoy.

I think lots of people like to analyse the message.

rt
 

evanaharris

Re: what an author is trying to say

Also, to add on to this, about "what Shelley had to say"....

You'll note that Frankenstein wasn't evil when he was first created, he only became evil when he faced the evils of the world. This was a common idea from the great thinkers of the time, the same great thinkers that influenced the French and American revolutions. That men were basically good and it was the things they encountered in the world that made them evil.

The story was, though, written as a constest between herself and her husband and someone else (forget his name), to try and write the best horror story they all could.
 

RichMar

Re: what an author is trying to say

Afraid I don't think the story carried that much philosophy. Hey, I got me a torch, ( propane fed, mind you, but just as effective) Lets' put an end to this fairytale.
 

evanaharris

Re: what an author is trying to say

I didn't say it did carry a lot of philosophy, only that it came out of that era (and that Shelley herself "hung" with these gentlemen, and scientists and poets and philosophers all throughout her childhood) and that it undoubtedly influenced her.
 

toto1958

Re: Whats-his-name

The other thing that I question with this story, is, was there really one particular thig on her mind when writing this story? like as if it was different things she was trying to say. I don't know.
 

pianoman5

Re: Whats-his-name

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar!" Sigmund Freud<hr></blockquote>


<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Sometimes a cigar is more than a cigar!" William Jefferson Clinton<hr></blockquote>

Sorry. Couldn't help it.
 

evanaharris

Re: Whats-his-name

Just try googling it, or look for a biography on Shelley. That'll tell you more than we can.
 

RichMar

Re: Whats-his-name

You can't insist that they do. If they're interested, they talk.
 

toto1958

Re: Whats-his-name

There was no insisting in what I said.

Where do you come up with this suff.
 

RichMar

Re: Whats-his-name

Insistance comes in many packages. It's as subtle as an Italian gramma turning her head when she doesn't get the praise within ten seconds after spooning out her homemade raviolis.

Ah, you hadda been there.