Infidelity question

For me, even kissing someone else is an infidelity (you know what kind of kissing). So yeah, oral sex WOULD be considered an infidelity, at least in my book.

It depends on what the definition of "is" is.

Yes, absolutely. (girly btw - if the nick didn't give it away)

Yes.

Yeah... definitely. But to split someone in half with an ax because of that?

Oh, I misunderstood.

It's infidelity if the partners have no former understanding (what we call open relationship) where outside sex is tolerated/allowed. If the couple is in strictly monogamous relationship, it would be considered "unfaithful" to that arrangement. Some people prefer to have non-monogamous relationships and they have rules and if the rules are followed, it's not considered infidelity.

However, whether you consider it morally unfaithful depends on your value system. Monogamy is not for everyone. It's a value judgment in that sense.

seun, I just wonder why you're concerned if we think it's infidelity... because, to me, if her partner thinks it is, then it is. It's about the character's reaction. A character could think "kissing someone on the cheek" is infidelity as long as it's true to THAT character. Another character could think nothing about having intercourse with another person as long as he's not in love with them. It's about what that character thinks (and not what the world thinks), IMHO.

Also, it depends on the "status" of the relationship.

For example, **** SPOILER *****

In Devils Wears Prada, the protagonist took a "break" from her relationship with her boyfriend and slept with someone else during the "break." They didn't really officially "break up." Was she being unfaithful? Did she commit adultery? That's an interesting question, so it depends on the characters, how they see the relationship, and where the relationship is.

Any physical contact is cheating.

(I'm female)

Gotcha. Like I said, it depends on the people involved and the kind of relationships they're in. If "Real Sex" on HBO tells us anything, it's "there are many shades of gray." As for me, if I'm in a committed, monogamous relationship -- meaning, we both agree to the terms -- then yeah. I probably would tolerate and try to understand, say, kissing or holding hands. My world is not all black and white... But oral sex? That's definitely cheating in my book in said type of relationship for me. Granted, I have had open relationships before -- trust me, it sounded good in theory, but it was a b!tch in practice. But personally, I am not going to pass judgment -- it's between the people involved in the relationship.

Depends. Is your name Bill Clinton?

I do think that is a generalization. People -- men or women -- cheat for various reasons under different circumstances. Something is always "lacking" in any relationship -- nothing is perfect -- but everyone has a choice. Sometimes people make mistakes, and sometimes people have no control and they shouldn't be in a relationship to begin with. I think as writers, if we just go with generalization we are being lazy. There's so many things about relationships and people that can be really fascinating instead of some cookie cutter stereotypes. However, in real life, we all kind of want to fit people in these stereotypes because it makes it easier for us to understand why people do certain things. If a person "cheats" on someone, it's easier for us to stick a Scarlet letter on them and waggle a finger at them and label them "evil" or "bad person." The reality is often more complicated than that. And as novelists, I think it's really interesting if we explore these "complications" without judgment.

Rationalization is one of the strongest human drives. People can rationalize anything.

Dont get the idea I sleep around but make sure the motel doesnt have your real address so they can mail you anything you leave behind. Not good. And ladies, dont bring along stuffed animals.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Rationalization is one of the strongest human drives. People can rationalize anything.

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That separates us from animals. However, our primitive sex drives are still... primitive.

And what do we consider as "cheating"? Is it limited to bodily contact/sexual activities? What about an "affair" that is purely emotional, or may include "phone sex"? But no actual touching/sex has occurred? I am not speaking of merely "liking someone" or even "flirting"... Is it still infidelity? Personally, I think an "emotional infidelity" could be more damaging than a physical one. As a man, I would be very upset if my partner has sex with someone else, but I would probably go ballistic if she falls in love with another person, with or without sex!

For example, a friend of mine is "okay" if her husband has extra-marital sex on business -- don't ask, don't tell, as long as he is safe. You may disagree with her but that's her view on it -- men will be men. However, she went ballistic when her husband told her he fell in love with another woman, even though he didn't have sex with her (but thought of it). They spent a year in counseling to get over that. So to her, "sex" is fine, but love is NOT.

Infidelity has a lot of gray areas. About two years ago, my best friend called me in tears, saying her husband had walked out. When I asked why, she confessed that she had cheated on him. After many long months of counseling and therapy -- and learning to rebuild trust -- they worked things out and have manage to get their marriage back on track. The whole thing really changed my perspective on infidelilty, because I learned that people in a happy relationship don't cheat. It also made me think a lot about what I would do if I was ever in her situation -- or his.

I would absolutely consider it cheating. I would also consider it a betrayal if my hubby kissed another women or developed a passionate online interest. A little flirting might piss me off, depending on how playful it was and if it was done in front of me. I don't think I'm that possessive (although maybe I am), but I just consider it disrespectful of the other person.

Cheating is a two way street. Both sexes cheat. I just think men are perhaps more upfront about it. Women try to pretend it's all about emotional needs. (As if that somehow justifies it.) I think you are right. It is much more complex than it is give credit for.

Definitely cheating.

There was a popular book a year or two ago that posited that idea that it was universally cheating if a spouse even had close friends of the opposite gender. (I forget what the book was called.) My circle of friends, most of them occupying various positions in the polyamorous bisexual end of the spectrum, found this howlingly absurd from all sorts of angles.

I'll chime in on what Maestrowork said: it's infidelity if it is untrue to the spouse. What does that mean? Whatever the couple have agreed it means.

Even a monogamous couple still should discuss "what does it mean to cheat" so that you don't end up with one spouse thinging "sex" and the other thinking "emotional attachment" and both getting hurt because of having failed to communicate their different expectations.

In an "open marriage," sex is often not considered cheating in and of itself, but if any lying surrounds it, that's a huge problem. For instance, if the spouse promises to practice safe sex when outside the primary relationship, but then goes ahead and has penetrative sex with another lover after discovering he left the condoms at home, that's cheating. Or if the spouse has said he's going to go out to the dance club tonight, but actually goes over to a lover's house for hot sex, that's cheating--not because of the sex, but because of the lying.

The issue of "why do people cheat" and whether you can make generalizations along gender lines becomes really interesting in a polyamorous relationship. When the rules are so lenient that a spouse has to really work at breaking them, you find out quick if the spouse has a "need" to cheat.

maestrowork said:

For example, a friend of mine is "okay" if her husband has extra-marital sex on business -- don't ask, don't tell, as long as he is safe. You may disagree with her but that's her view on it -- men will be men. However, she went ballistic when her husband told her he fell in love with another woman, even though he didn't have sex with her (but thought of it). They spent a year in counseling to get over that. So to her, "sex" is fine, but love is NOT.

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That's just weird. There's no other word for that. Although I wish my wife felt the same way!

My wife gets jealous if I mention I was chatting with a woman online. Even this, I have to be careful and couch my words as, "I was discussing such-and-such with a fellow writer..."

Not all that weird--although I agree, I wouldn't find it workable. Obviously this woman considers emotional monogamy very important: she doesn't care what her husband does with his body, so long as his heart is hers and hers alone.

Like I said, I wouldn't find it workable--the whole reason my marriage is an open one is because both of us feel not only that sex in and of itself has only the meaning you give it, but also that the more emotional supports a person has, the better. But it's not at all unusual, and it's probably the core reason why traditional monogamy considers outside sex to be cheating. Traditional monogamy says that giving the body is seen as a sign of giving the heart, and traditional monogamy says the couple save their hearts exclusively for each other.

Of course, I'm using "traditional monogamy" to mean something that probably isn't quite as "traditional" as we like to believe. Maybe I should say "mainstream Western monogamy."

Being old, I’m a bit old fashioned. IMHO if you get married you are making a commitment to that person. If you have the need or desire to have sex with multiple partners, don’t get married. If you are married and want to play around, get a divorce. The betrayal is the lying not the sex itself.