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kilamangiro
08-14-2006, 12:52 AM
Great. Just Great. It changed the way I think about the world, that is no exaggeration.
Lyra is such a wonderful character and her bond with her daemon, Pantalaimon, makes the series for me.
It was also the first children's book to win the Whitbread Book of the Year award.
As well as this it suffered an abominable name change to suit the American market. The same clown who changed Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone (which doesn't make sense) also ordered the first book in the series (the Northern lights) be changed to the Golden Compass.
That aside, what did everyone think of it? I can't conceive that you read it and didn't love it.

Sesselja
08-14-2006, 02:40 PM
Wonderfull books. I loved them. I'm usually not one for fantasy, but I loved these books. Not only have Pullman created some wonderfull characters and creatures, but he deals with some big stuff in a way that makes it readable both for teens and for adults.

Cath
08-14-2006, 02:48 PM
Yup, I loved them.

I love that he is so challenging - not in the words, but in the ideas and concepts he presents.

Even my hubby enjoyed them, and he hardly reads fiction.

K1P1
08-14-2006, 04:02 PM
Yes, I agree with you that he's challenging. I like the fact that he takes a scholar's approach to his symbolism so comes up with a truly literary fantasy. We read the series aloud with our kids and I was struck by the differenc in experiencing the books whether I was reading out loud, listening, or reading to myself. I'd never appreciated the fact that I notice entirely different aspects of the writing depending on how I'm hearing/reading it.

But I never got past the beginning of the third book. He ran into some problems there figuring out the ending. In fact, I understand that he submitted the entire ms to his publisher, then decided it was all wrong and withdrew it for revisions. This is hearsay. Does anybody know the story?

Lyra Jean
08-14-2006, 04:23 PM
Man I love this trilogy. I also have a book "The Science of Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials" by Mary and John Gribben. I also have a book titled "Lyra's Oxford" by Philip Pullman. I got them because the character had the same name as I do. It took a little while to get used to. I haven't read them in a long time but I love the story and characters.

kilamangiro
08-15-2006, 04:28 AM
Another of his book's: "The Scarcrow and His Servant" is also great. It's aimed at slightly younger readers but i found it a lot of fun.

Isanthe
08-15-2006, 05:58 AM
Spoiler ahead, fair warning!




I loved the first two, but the third for some reason didn't capture me the same way.


The characters have always stayed fresh in my mind, and I especially loved Iorek and Lee & Hester. Lee's & Hester's death brought tears to my eyes because it was both heroic and understated.

kilamangiro
08-15-2006, 11:08 PM
More Spoilers.





I loved the third book, I think it was the best one. The bit where Lyra had to leave Pan behind ripped my heart in two. And then Will too at the end.

Inkdaub
08-16-2006, 12:47 PM
I enjoyed these books as well. Good stuff. The movie will probably be goofy as usual.

Optimist
08-19-2006, 11:41 PM
The characters have always stayed fresh in my mind, and I especially loved Iorek and Lee & Hester. Lee's & Hester's death brought tears to my eyes because it was both heroic and understated.

Definitely.
Lee's and Hester's death seem to go unnoticed by all except by the reader, which I think makes it all the more emotional.
As fo Iorek... well, what can i say? he's a legend.
He makes you think, what if I were more like him?
Could I help to make the world a better place?
Do i have the strength and courage to stand for what is right?

Jack_Roberts
08-10-2007, 07:42 PM
I saw the preview and decided to treat this movie (and another one, the Spiderwick Chronicles) like I treated Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings in 2001.
Back then I saw the previews for both movies and decided to read the books to know ahead of time what the stories were truly like. This way I could enjoy the movie even more.
It worked great for both those so I'm doing it again. I read the first four Spiderwicks (they're small) and while waiting for book five from the library I started on Golden Compass. I like Spiderwick, but I think I like Compass more.
Originally published in England as the Northern Lights, this is the first of a trilogy. It's about a girl in a parallel Earth who has to go on a quest and do all sorts of stuff. You know me, I like my spunky, adventurous girls (Annabelle) so I'm totally eating it up.
At first I wasn't to enamoured with Lyra only because she's a bit crass sometimes, but as a writer I can see that Phillip Pullman did that to give her room to grow in the series.
In this world every human who ever lived has a Deamon. These are shape shifting creatures who share every emotion and physical feeling with their human. Lyra's Deamon is Pantalaimon. I really like him. He's my favorite character. I have a preview on my blog that shows him a bit more than the other. It's from the Comic Con.

I hope we're out of our crisis by December. I REALLY want to see this.
At the moment I'm about half way through the first book. I need to get back to reading.

katiemac
08-10-2007, 09:02 PM
I really enjoyed this series when I read it a couple of years ago, but I need to reread them. I don't know if I'll see the films, I haven't watched the previews yet. But the casting is good, and it's always a plus when the posters are cool, too.

Inkdaub
08-11-2007, 02:39 PM
Pan is the daemon of the hour...too sweet to be sour.

Lyra Jean
08-11-2007, 04:56 PM
Where can I see previews of the movie? I love this series.

sunna
08-11-2007, 05:28 PM
Here:

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/thegoldencompass.html

I also loved this series. I'm definitely going to go see the movie.

Toothpaste
08-11-2007, 08:45 PM
In London England they actually turned the book series into two plays, and it was hugely successful. In fact that was the reason I read the books was after I had seen the plays. I enjoy them a lot, but have read that the movies are going to tone down the religious stuff which disappoints me a little. Still aesthetically the film looks amazing, and I mean, Daniel Craig is in it, does one need any other incentive?

Lyra Jean
08-11-2007, 08:48 PM
Are they going to do the other two books as well? Does anyone know?

Danger Jane
08-12-2007, 12:16 AM
I think they definitely will as long as this one does well...which it should, considering the huge fanbase.


I have to say that I don't mind them toning down the religious aspect seeing as I'm a churchgoing Catholic. Damn I love those books, and have since I was about ten.



And man, I can't wait to see how the Amber Spyglass gets translated to the screen. OH MAN.

The_Grand_Duchess
08-12-2007, 02:35 AM
Awesome books.

Vincent
08-12-2007, 03:48 AM
I've read the book (and enjoyed it. I mean, who couldn't love the idea of talking, armoured polar bears?) and will be watching the film. I like to keep an open mind about adaptations, but my first two reactions to the news were;

1. Northern Lights is a better title than The Golden Compass. Still, no biggie.

2. Nicole Kidman? What were they thinking?

Toothpaste
08-12-2007, 06:05 AM
Nicole Kidman as a cold heartless b****? What's wrong with that casting?

Danger Jane - For me the religious stuff is key to the books, but I can understand how as a catholic you wouldn't mind it toned down. Personally though it is a huge disapointment that they are.

Chumplet
08-12-2007, 06:30 AM
My daughter read the books first, and then I read them a few years ago. I was really sucked into that alternate universe. I can't wait for the movie.

Vincent
08-12-2007, 07:29 AM
Nicole Kidman as a cold heartless b****? What's wrong with that casting?

Danger Jane - For me the religious stuff is key to the books, but I can understand how as a catholic you wouldn't mind it toned down. Personally though it is a huge disapointment that they are.

Yes, Nicole Kidman as a cold heartless b***, sure, Nicole Kidman as a waxen glass eyed unemotive automaton, fantastic... but there comes a point where that character has to show true emotion, fear and vulnerability. Nicole Kidman?

EDIT:

Now, I haven't read books two and three, but from what I'm told, they wouldn't lend themselves to the screen as well as the first. Is this true?

rosebud1981
08-14-2007, 01:18 AM
Yes, Nicole Kidman as a cold heartless b***, sure, Nicole Kidman as a waxen glass eyed unemotive automaton, fantastic... but there comes a point where that character has to show true emotion, fear and vulnerability. Nicole Kidman?

EDIT:

Now, I haven't read books two and three, but from what I'm told, they wouldn't lend themselves to the screen as well as the first. Is this true?


There are some parts of the third book that might be difficult to film. They may have to change some small things.
I don't see too many problems with the second one though. Can't wait for the first film, brilliant books :)

Lyra Jean
08-14-2007, 03:08 AM
I love multi- parallel universe stories. That's why I first picked it up and then to find out the main character has the same name as me. Well, that's just bonus.

Jack_Roberts
08-14-2007, 03:27 AM
I just can't get enough of the relationship between Lyla & Pan!

*Tears through the book*

It’s getting so good!

Why do I have to wait for book two? Darn that stranger who checked it out from the library! I'm second on the list.
Sigh.

JoNightshade
08-14-2007, 03:32 AM
I honestly have not read the books but I may check them out.

However, anything that has a talking polar bear sells me instantly.

Actually, any movie with majestic talking animals sells me instantly. (IE Chronicles of Narnia.)

Danger Jane
08-14-2007, 04:46 AM
Nicole Kidman as a cold heartless b****? What's wrong with that casting?

Danger Jane - For me the religious stuff is key to the books, but I can understand how as a catholic you wouldn't mind it toned down. Personally though it is a huge disapointment that they are.

Phillip Pullman wanted Nicole Kidman.....

It's key to me, too, but I try to see it more as a struggle against a faceless oppressive entity, for his purpose the church, and not as a huge, well-written, compelling dig at my religion. Not like I'm trying to be ignorant, just that I'm trying to identify with the parts that I can.

Lyra Jean
08-14-2007, 04:50 AM
There's a religious element to this story? Am I just not seeing it?

Danger Jane
08-14-2007, 05:17 AM
Basically Phillip Pullman hates organized religion. spoilers: You know, the whole...ending death, killing God, the Church is evil thing

Jack_Roberts
08-14-2007, 06:24 AM
Now now, no spoilers. ;)

I don't know. I'm still in book one. Lyra and Pan just got captured by the bears.

Some of the scenes in the previews don't quite match up to the same scenes in the book. Well, that’s really par of course with movie adaptations.

I'm still excited.

Inkdaub
08-14-2007, 01:18 PM
Basically Phillip Pullman hates organized religion. You know, the whole...ending death, killing God, the Church is evil thing

Smart man.

Moonfish
08-17-2007, 12:04 PM
I did love the whole series immensely, although at times I felt Pullman made it easy for himself by having Lyra and Will, mostly in book 2, be saved from dangerous situations again and again by someone else. I had at the time been working hard on my own manuscript (later published) about two kids to make sure THEY did the stuff, not just some deus ex machina.
I am a bit apprehensive about seeing the movie since I loved the books so, but seeing the trailer in the movies the other day did give me chills.
One little note: daemons aren't shape-shifters - only the daemons of children can shift. When you hit puberty they choose one form.

Lyra Jean
08-17-2007, 04:27 PM
Did they show an adult's deamon shapeshifting?

Danger Jane
08-18-2007, 12:21 AM
They shouldn't have...it was explained pretty explicitly.

Moonfish
08-18-2007, 12:43 PM
No, my comment was to the original post here, not the movie.

Lyra Jean
08-18-2007, 06:27 PM
I just thought that maybe someone saw a preview where an adult's deamon was shapeshifting.

Danger Jane
08-18-2007, 08:36 PM
I see I see.

Oh man I hope they don't mes up this movie.

Saanen
08-24-2007, 06:17 PM
You know, this thread was the whole reason I picked up The Golden Compass. THANK YOU, JackRoberts! I love this book! I'm 3/4 of the way through it and this weekend I'll be picking up the sequels to have ready.

It's funny, because I remember thinking around page 10, "How on earth did this get published by Yearling? Except for the daemons there's really nothing unique about this setting or the characters." And then by page 15 I was completely and utterly hooked. I still think the very beginning is clumsy and slow, but I forgive it. :)

Am I the only one who's worried about the movie trailer now? In the book Lyra is rough and scrappy, eleven and small for her age. Lyra in the movie trailer is too old and too dainty and quiet--although hopefully that's not how she'll come across in the movie. The special effects look fantastic in the trailer, though. I just hope the movie captures the intricacy of this world, and the importance of the daemons.

scarletpeaches
08-24-2007, 06:59 PM
I've read all three books and they were entertaining enough, even though I strongly disagree with Pullman's hatred of organised religion. My dislike of him as a man influences my thoughts on the books and upcoming movies I admit. If you're an atheist, fair enough, do what you like, I don't care. As the Bible says, "Each one will carry his own load," but it's this rampant denigration of religion I object to. It seems fanaticism isn't limited to those among us who are believers.

Jack_Roberts
08-24-2007, 09:34 PM
You know, this thread was the whole reason I picked up The Golden Compass. THANK YOU, JackRoberts! I love this book! I'm 3/4 of the way through it and this weekend I'll be picking up the sequels to have ready.

Glad I got you hooked.

Because my muse is a smart, determined little girl in a fantasy element, I seem drawn to those types.




It's funny, because I remember thinking around page 10, "How on earth did this get published by Yearling? Except for the daemons there's really nothing unique about this setting or the characters." And then by page 15 I was completely and utterly hooked. I still think the very beginning is clumsy and slow, but I forgive it. :)

I agree. Head hoping and tell instead of show (too much tell) both bothered me.

I think as hopeful writers, we change so much and get dinged becuase of so much that when we see published authors getting away with these mistakes we can't help but bawk.

Still, I got hooked later on like you and zoomed through it.

I do like it and I'll probley ask for the series for Christmas.





Am I the only one who's worried about the movie trailer now? In the book Lyra is rough and scrappy, eleven and small for her age. Lyra in the movie trailer is too old and too dainty and quiet--although hopefully that's not how she'll come across in the movie. The special effects look fantastic in the trailer, though. I just hope the movie captures the intricacy of this world, and the importance of the daemons.

Go here...

http://night-children.blogspot.com/2007/08/golden-compass.html

I posted the best preview (so far). If you watch closely, Lyra and Roger are walking on the roofs with thier deamons. She spits on someone down below.

MAN I want to see this movie!

Lyra Jean
08-25-2007, 06:43 AM
I'm totally seeing the movie.

Saanen
08-26-2007, 06:13 PM
I truly don't understand the people who are seeing fanatism and hatred of organized religion in these books. Look, this is a work of fiction set in an alternate world. Nothing I've read so far indicates that Pullman has an axe to grind. His characters act as humans, not mouthpieces for his own beliefs. If you find yourself thinking, "But no one who acts on behalf of God would do such awful, selfish things in God's name!", you need to read up on the history of any large religion.

Vincent
08-27-2007, 09:23 AM
I truly don't understand the people who are seeing fanatism and hatred of organized religion in these books. Look, this is a work of fiction set in an alternate world. Nothing I've read so far indicates that Pullman has an axe to grind. His characters act as humans, not mouthpieces for his own beliefs. If you find yourself thinking, "But no one who acts on behalf of God would do such awful, selfish things in God's name!", you need to read up on the history of any large religion.

But there are times, especially towards the end of the first book (I've only read the one) when his characters do act as mouthpieces for his own beliefs, and he's not shy about it.

Saanen
08-27-2007, 02:32 PM
But there are times, especially towards the end of the first book (I've only read the one) when his characters do act as mouthpieces for his own beliefs, and he's not shy about it.

I'm not seeing it. If that's what he did, it slipped under my radar and I usually pick up on stuff that doesn't fit and seems to be coming straight from the author.

No, I'm convinced that people are reading all this into the book after they've read it, probably because they disagree with the message in some way (or are misinterpreting it).

Lyra Jean
08-27-2007, 08:14 PM
I'm not seeing anything that's bashing a religion in particular. But then again it probably has to be pretty thick for me to catch it.

Christine N.
08-27-2007, 09:11 PM
It's on my list of To read books, and on my BookMooch wishlist. I Mooched a set of The Dark is Rising books, waiting on them, since they also have a made a movie of that as well.

A reviewer once told me I write like Susan Cooper, so I have to see if it's true. Then His Dark Materials books.

Too many books to read!

DragonHeart
08-29-2007, 06:23 PM
I'm doing the same thing, heh. When I first saw the trailer for The Golden Compass I thought it looked quite interesting - talking polar bear's got me sold, too. ;) I picked up the boxed set and read them at the beginning of this month. Took me three days. I enjoyed them very much and I also noted they are definitely the sort of book I have to read more than once because I know I'll pick up on new details every time.

Iorek is my favorite character, for the record. :D

~DragonHeart~

Lyra Jean
08-29-2007, 08:18 PM
You can't go wrong with him Dragonheart.

I'm partial to Pantolaimon (sp?) myself.

Danger Jane
08-29-2007, 08:35 PM
Well the whole religion thing isn't so strong until the third book.

(Spoilers)

Basically the Church is the evil human entity of the books--it's what the Church would have become if there had been no Reformation, a huge, powerful body that does really bad things. Asriel's entire deal is to destroy God and his kingdom.

I don't care though. I think the books own hardcore.

BenPanced
08-29-2007, 10:02 PM
I've tried reading The Golden Compass twice and for the life of me, it didn't grab me either time. I don't remember anything about it; I'd even forgotten the main character's name until I went through this thread.

Moonfish
08-30-2007, 10:00 PM
I'm not seeing it. If that's what he did, it slipped under my radar and I usually pick up on stuff that doesn't fit and seems to be coming straight from the author.

No, I'm convinced that people are reading all this into the book after they've read it, probably because they disagree with the message in some way (or are misinterpreting it).

Actually, it comes very strongly in book three. But I don't mind it at all. I actually found it interesting to read someone with such a strong view.

Toothpaste
08-31-2007, 02:42 AM
I'm with moonfish, it isn't a matter of reading too much into it. Philip Pullman himself has said that that was what he wrote. He is a self-confessed atheist just so you know.

rugcat
08-31-2007, 02:58 AM
I'm with moonfish, it isn't a matter of reading too much into it. Philip Pullman himself has said that that was what he wrote. He is a self-confessed atheist just so you know. I know nothing of Pullman's beliefs and would never have guessed he was an atheist. I found the books quite spiritual, in an affecting way, and full of heart.

Dislike of organized religion is not always synonymous with atheism, or even with lack of spirituality. There are many types of atheism beyond simply believing everything is chance and all spiritual beliefs are nonsense.

Great books, by the way.

Writer14
09-04-2007, 09:29 PM
The 'His Dark Materials' series is amazing. I love all three books, though my favs will always be 1 & 3.

=]
Anyway, I personally can't wait to see the movie!

Evaine
09-06-2007, 03:55 PM
Philip Pullman has been quite up front in interviews about his religious views, or his views about religion.
Also, he hates CS Lewis with a passion.
I liked the first two books, and parts of the third book - I did like the ending very much.

ergraham
09-10-2007, 09:42 PM
I am really shocked that some people seemed to have missed Pullman's views of religion in these books. I don't mind it when authors show characters who are not Christian or who believe in no religion, etc., etc., but much of Pullman's work sounds like preaching (against religion, of course) to me! There were many times when I would put the books down; it felt too much like Pullman wanted to use his characters to spout of his own personal beliefs--which had little if nothing to do with progressing the plot!

Dragonfly45
09-14-2007, 07:38 AM
I love Compass but started reading Subtle Knife and just couldn't get into it! I put it down and maybe when I come back to it it'll grab me more this time...

Danger Jane
09-15-2007, 07:13 AM
I know nothing of Pullman's beliefs and would never have guessed he was an atheist. I found the books quite spiritual, in an affecting way, and full of heart.

Dislike of organized religion is not always synonymous with atheism, or even with lack of spirituality. There are many types of atheism beyond simply believing everything is chance and all spiritual beliefs are nonsense.

Great books, by the way.

Well, yeah. Spoilers in white:

At the end of The Amber Spyglass...Lyra and Will kill God. Quite compassionately, but still...they kill God. To Pullman, religion is dead. That's sort of a major theme, IMO.

Popeyesays
09-15-2007, 11:08 AM
Ergraham,

Whose beliefs is an author supposed to spout other than his/her own?

Regards,
Scott

ergraham
09-16-2007, 01:03 AM
Popeyesays,
I don't mind a book that spouts belief, if that's what it's supposed to be, like a devotional/inspirational. The thing is, this is supposed to be a fantasy novel, not a soap box. Of course, I'm quite willing to say that if his beliefs had corresponded with my own, I'd have liked it more. I adore Narnia, and Lewis (like Pullman) makes his ideas of religion pretty obvious in the story. [And I may be biased, but I think Lewis does it so much better...sure, it's obvious that Aslan is God, but the plot follows along with that; the plot is built around that; whereas it almost feels to me as if Pullman is trying to hide his ideas, as if he's not sure whether to let people know what he thinks or not...then again, I never got past the first book.]

I guess it comes down to this: if an author is going to use his story as a hidden sermon, I will only like it if I like the sermon. There are other works of Pullman's that I like, but I could never focus on the plot of the Compass books because I disagreed so fundamentally with what he was trying to say.

scarletpeaches
09-16-2007, 01:06 AM
Ergraham,

Whose beliefs is an author supposed to spout other than his/her own?

Regards,
Scott

No-one's. The story's supposed to come first - the characters' beliefs and their 'trueness' should come before the author's desire to soapbox, otherwise they read like MarySues, only there to open their mouth and let the author speak.

Dragonfly45
09-16-2007, 07:40 AM
No-one's. The story's supposed to come first - the characters' beliefs and their 'trueness' should come before the author's desire to soapbox, otherwise they read like MarySues, only there to open their mouth and let the author speak.


I agree whole-heartedly...unless the character is a minister, I don't want to be preached to in a book :-)

Toothpaste
09-16-2007, 08:11 AM
Fair enough, but different books for different folks. I never felt preached at by Pullman, in fact I found his story rather refreshing. Personally what I found more difficult to read was the lack of humour (okay there is some, but in my opinion . . .not enough), which for me is rather fundamental. Still liked the books, but can't say I loved them.

(PS: I just spent the last few days in the UK doing a book tour thing and was taken about with the head of PR who was constantly on her blackberry. What was she doing? Exchanging emails with Pullman about the soon to be premiere of the movie. Thought that was kind of cool!)

scarletpeaches
09-16-2007, 12:50 PM
God, Adrienne. You're so cool. And totally where I want to be.

/fangirl, signing off. ;)

Pila
09-17-2007, 04:04 AM
I just recently re-read these novels so that I'm nice and refreshed for when the movie comes out. I cried like a little baby basically thoughout all three books. I love them so much. I love the characters, and the daemons, and Pullmans take on religion and life in general.

I can't wait for the movie, I hope they don't butcher it =\

Jack_Roberts
09-17-2007, 07:33 AM
(PS: I just spent the last few days in the UK doing a book tour thing and was taken about with the head of PR who was constantly on her blackberry. What was she doing? Exchanging emails with Pullman about the soon to be premiere of the movie. Thought that was kind of cool!)

GAHH!

You are living the dream!
I would LOVE to be there, signing books for Annabelle fans!

Sigh.

One day. One day.

Btw, staying on topic.
Just finished Subtle Knife.

SNIFF! I can't believe SPOILER died.

Did you guys know there are two new books coming? One with Lee and that polar bear (a prequil) and one with Lyra at age 16.

This is fun! I can't wait for December's movie!

Long Live Pan!

Ok, enough acting like a fan boy.
Back to reading about Bella and Edward...

Jacob
09-17-2007, 07:47 AM
I saw the preview and decided to treat this movie (and another one, the Spiderwick Chronicles) like I treated Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings in 2001.
Back then I saw the previews for both movies and decided to read the books to know ahead of time what the stories were truly like. This way I could enjoy the movie even more.
It worked great for both those so I'm doing it again. I read the first four Spiderwicks (they're small) and while waiting for book five from the library I started on Golden Compass. I like Spiderwick, but I think I like Compass more.
Originally published in England as the Northern Lights, this is the first of a trilogy. It's about a girl in a parallel Earth who has to go on a quest and do all sorts of stuff. You know me, I like my spunky, adventurous girls (Annabelle) so I'm totally eating it up.
At first I wasn't to enamoured with Lyra only because she's a bit crass sometimes, but as a writer I can see that Phillip Pullman did that to give her room to grow in the series.
In this world every human who ever lived has a Deamon. These are shape shifting creatures who share every emotion and physical feeling with their human. Lyra's Deamon is Pantalaimon. I really like him. He's my favorite character. I have a preview on my blog that shows him a bit more than the other. It's from the Comic Con.

I hope we're out of our crisis by December. I REALLY want to see this.
At the moment I'm about half way through the first book. I need to get back to reading.

I just started this book today! Ive heard great things from lots of people. Maybe this comes up in the book but Im wondering around how old Lyra is supposed to be. I could not tell you why but this keeps coming up in my mind :) Anyways Im excited about reading it though.

Jacob
09-17-2007, 07:53 AM
Philip Pullman has been quite up front in interviews about his religious views, or his views about religion.
Also, he hates CS Lewis with a passion.
I liked the first two books, and parts of the third book - I did like the ending very much.
How could anyone hate C.S Lewis? :(

Pila
09-17-2007, 08:04 AM
How could anyone hate C.S Lewis? :(

I hate C.S. Lewis. Well, not HATE, I just don't really care for the books. The first book was really good but I really dislike the later ones. I really don't like what he did to Susan >8-[

I think Pullman doesn't like him because they're kind of on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Pullman writes about the atrocities of religion and Lewis writes a story parellel to the bible. Both have great ideas, but they're very different ideas.

Jack_Roberts
09-17-2007, 09:44 AM
I just started this book today! Ive heard great things from lots of people. Maybe this comes up in the book but Im wondering around how old Lyra is supposed to be. I could not tell you why but this keeps coming up in my mind :) Anyways Im excited about reading it though.


She's 12. It comes in way later in the book. In the second book (this is not a spoiler) you meet a new mc named Will. He's 12, too. He's from our Earth.

Jack_Roberts
09-17-2007, 09:55 AM
I hate C.S. Lewis. Well, not HATE, I just don't really care for the books. The first book was really good but I really dislike the later ones. I really don't like what he did to Susan >8-[

I think Pullman doesn't like him because they're kind of on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Pullman writes about the atrocities of religion and Lewis writes a story parellel to the bible. Both have great ideas, but they're very different ideas.

All true.

Thing is, yes, I believe in God.
But I don't read Pullman, Meyer, Stomper, Rowling, Tolken, Lewis, Shan or any of the others for religion. I read them for fun escape. They transport me to their worlds. They can do whatever they want, it's still fantasy.
When I go to church and hear about immortal beings and other worlds (i.e. Heaven and Hell) I choose to see that as reality. When I open a Rowling or Pullman and read about immortal beings and other worlds, I choose to see that as fantasy. I see a wall there and I won't cross it.

I never got mad at Stan Lee for creating a cosmic god who is allowed to eat planets. In comics it's all pretend. Novels are the same. Sure, Pullman can say rotten things about religion and Lewis can preach, but when they are telling stories, it's stories.

Even if they PLANNED to use their stories as a pulpit, I choose to be thick and over look their preaching and just enjoy their make believe worlds.
Just another super hero tale. Just instead of the Avengers or Fantastic Four beating on Thanos or Galactus, it's Lyra and Pan running from Ms. Coulter or Harry standing against Voldermont.

That's my 2 cents.

Pila
09-18-2007, 02:17 AM
All true.

Thing is, yes, I believe in God.
But I don't read Pullman, Meyer, Stomper, Rowling, Tolken, Lewis, Shan or any of the others for religion. I read them for fun escape. They transport me to their worlds. They can do whatever they want, it's still fantasy.
When I go to church and hear about immortal beings and other worlds (i.e. Heaven and Hell) I choose to see that as reality. When I open a Rowling or Pullman and read about immortal beings and other worlds, I choose to see that as fantasy. I see a wall there and I won't cross it.

I never got mad at Stan Lee for creating a cosmic god who is allowed to eat planets. In comics it's all pretend. Novels are the same. Sure, Pullman can say rotten things about religion and Lewis can preach, but when they are telling stories, it's stories.

Even if they PLANNED to use their stories as a pulpit, I choose to be thick and over look their preaching and just enjoy their make believe worlds.
Just another super hero tale. Just instead of the Avengers or Fantastic Four beating on Thanos or Galactus, it's Lyra and Pan running from Ms. Coulter or Harry standing against Voldermont.

That's my 2 cents.


Yeah, I completely understand.

With Pullman, while I agree with most of his takes and ideas about religion and such, it's still JUST A STORY. And a rather good story, at that, and I think it brought up some good points. Some people do twist their religion to suit their own needs, and it's horrible. But when it all comes down to things, it's just a book. No need to get your knickers in a twist over somebody elses opinions. I was agnostic long before I read the novels, they didn't turn me against god. Just like Harry Potter didn't turn kids into satanists. Your beliefs obviously couldn't have been that strong if all it takes is a fictional book to change them, you know?

Not sure if I clarified this good enough, just making sure, but I don't dislike Lewis because he writes novels that plays heavily upon religion, I just think his writing is too simple. If I would have read them when I was younger, I'd probably have enjoyed them a bit more. I also didn't like how (spoiler: at the end of the first book, they were in Narnia for years and they were adults, and then they go back to their world as children again and it was just like 'oh, okay! we're kids again'). And then of course what happened to Susan, that was just lame >.>

Jack_Roberts
09-18-2007, 02:24 AM
Not sure if I clarified this good enough, just making sure, but I don't dislike Lewis because he writes novels that plays heavily upon religion, I just think his writing is too simple. If I would have read them when I was younger, I'd probably have enjoyed them a bit more. I also didn't like how (spoiler: at the end of the first book, they were in Narnia for years and they were adults, and then they go back to their world as children again and it was just like 'oh, okay! we're kids again'). And then of course what happened to Susan, that was just lame >.>

I agree. Give us more detail on thier feelings, C.S!

I've only read the first 2, so I'll wait till I get to others to find out about Susan.

Pila
09-18-2007, 02:26 AM
I agree. Give us more detail on thier feelings, C.S!

I've only read the first 2, so I'll wait till I get to others to find out about Susan.


Exactly! I know if I went into another world and lived for 20+ years, only to come back to my own world as the same age I was originally, I'd probably be pretty screwed up.

At least the movie was fantastic =]

Jack_Roberts
09-18-2007, 05:17 AM
The movie was really good. I think the next one is next year.

I don't think Lewis realized he would be doing sequils. I had a hard time with how he head swapped from Lucy to Edward. Pullman does it in his second book, too.
Ah well.

Pila
09-18-2007, 05:21 AM
The movie was really good. I think the next one is next year.

I don't think Lewis realized he would be doing sequils. I had a hard time with how he head swapped from Lucy to Edward. Pullman does it in his second book, too.
Ah well.


Yeah, Prince Caspian. It looks really good, but I may just be biased because the guy they casted as Prince Caspian is gorgeous =)