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P.H.Delarran
08-06-2006, 12:15 AM
Test yourself here (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/adultlearning/?page=Quiz51&Quizid=51).


I'm disappointed in my results, but I learned a few things. Ok, five things.

Provrb1810meggy
08-06-2006, 12:30 AM
I got 7/10 correct. I got the lay, lie, that thing messed up, as I always do. I got the bad and badly thing messed up, and the guy acting like the coolest guy. However, I think the way they said it sounds crazy. Maybe that's jsut me and my improper grammar.

cree
08-06-2006, 12:35 AM
8/10...I feel BADLY that I WAS never the coolest guy in school :)
Thanks for the link.

Marlys
08-06-2006, 12:55 AM
10/10.

reph
08-06-2006, 02:01 AM
10/10. Their list of words you must know had one surprise for me, "sternutatory."

TemlynWriting
08-06-2006, 02:08 AM
10/10.

:)

Always learning,
Julia

Soccer Mom
08-06-2006, 05:20 AM
7/10. I suck . Not that that surprises me. I'm always having to look stuff up.

Puma
08-06-2006, 06:01 AM
10/10 - but I still have to think about regardless and irregardless. Puma

Debboggy
08-06-2006, 06:24 AM
That was fun. :) I got 8/10, but one was a stupid mistake. (I knew the answer, just clicked on the wrong one carelessly.)

laurel29
08-06-2006, 03:18 PM
Test yourself here (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/adultlearning/?page=Quiz51&Quizid=51).


I'm disappointed in my results, but I learned a few things. Ok, five things. Don't feel bad....I got 5 too. :( The thing that tripped me up was that I kept second guessing myself. I literally said, well I would use this so it must be this other one. I was actually pretty happy when I found out that my instincts, in all but one case, were correct. Next time I'm going to have a little more faith in myself and not change my answers :P The one I was really off on was the - were was is - question. I thought the answer was, was. :(

rekirts
08-06-2006, 08:18 PM
My instincts were correct, too, but I went against them on the BAD/BADLY question and got that one wrong. Grrrr.

Sandi LeFaucheur
08-06-2006, 08:55 PM
My instincts were correct, too, but I went against them on the BAD/BADLY question and got that one wrong. Grrrr.

As did I. But if you look at my important/importantly posting, you'll see this is a problem for me!http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Cathy C
08-06-2006, 09:17 PM
9/10 but I forgot to click one. Oops. But I would have gotten it right.

Becky Writes
08-06-2006, 09:32 PM
I got 9/10.

I don't think I did bad/badly. :D

Mac H.
08-06-2006, 10:15 PM
There is one answer I don't understand.

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*** IF YOU WANT TO DO THE QUIZ BEFORE READING THIS, LEAVE NOW ***





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"He acts as if he were the coolest guy in school."

.. Were is called for in this sentence because it describes something that’s untrue (he’s clearly not the coolest guy in school). This is an example of the subjunctive (http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/subjunctive.html) mood, which is used to express doubts, wishes, possibilities, or untruths.

OK - So consider:
* Statement 1 = 'He is the coolest guy in school.'
* Statement 2 = 'The sky is blue.'
* Statement 3 = 'It is not hot.'

Clearly, all these statements are correct grammer.

So why isn't "He acts as if (Statement) " correct ?

According the reference, "He acts as if it is not hot" is wrong - it should be "He acts as if it were not hot." ????

OK - I can live with that. But if you shortened it, it would seem to say that "He acts as if it isn't hot" is wrong, but "He acts as if it weren't hot" is correct ? Encarta doesn't seem to recognise 'was' as subjunctive, so we can't even simplify it to "He acts is if it wasn't hot".

Which is correct: "He acts as if killing isn't wrong" or "He acts as if killing weren't wrong" ?

Mac

Shwebb
08-06-2006, 11:08 PM
10/10. Reaffirms my ability to do something well. Like take a very short grammar test and be able to pay attention long enough to finish it.

reph
08-07-2006, 02:06 AM
"He acts as if he were the coolest guy in school."

.. Were is called for in this sentence because it describes something thatís untrue (heís clearly not the coolest guy in school). This is an example of the subjunctive mood, which is used to express doubts, wishes, possibilities, or untruths....According the reference, "He acts as if it is not hot" is wrong - it should be "He acts as if it were not hot." ????

OK - I can live with that. But if you shortened it, it would seem to say that "He acts as if it isn't hot" is wrong, but "He acts as if it weren't hot" is correct ? Encarta doesn't seem to recognise 'was' as subjunctive, so we can't even simplify it to "He acts is if it wasn't hot".

Which is correct: "He acts as if killing isn't wrong" or "He acts as if killing weren't wrong"?"Was" isn't subjunctive. Encarta is right.

These are correct:

"He acts as if it were not hot."
"He acts as if it weren't hot."
"He acts as if killing weren't wrong."

These are also correct:

"If I were you, I'd take a vacation." Subjunctive because I'm not you.
"If I were a carpenter and you were a lady..." Subjunctive because he isn't a carpenter.
"If the Axis had won World War II..." Subjunctive because the Axis lost.

But be careful not to use the subjunctive where it's wrong.

"If I were mistaken, I'd know it." Subjunctive because I'm sure I wasn't mistaken.
"If I was mistaken, I'm sorry." Indicative (i.e., not subjunctive) because I may have been mistaken.

MidnightMuse
08-07-2006, 04:47 AM
10/10, which surprises me a little.

Mac H.
08-07-2006, 12:22 PM
This is an example of the subjunctive mood, which is used to express doubts, wishes, possibilities, or untruths. ...

"If I was mistaken, I'm sorry." Indicative (i.e., not subjunctive) because I may have been mistaken.

But surely since subjunctive includes 'possibilities' by the definition above, theno "If I were mistaken, I'm sorry" IS subjunctive - as there is a possibility that I may (or may not) have been mistaken ?

OK - here's an easy question (although technically is about spelling, not grammer) :

Which is correct :

a. "Man does not live by bread alone." -or-
b. "Man does not live by bred alone." ?

Naturally the Americans here will use the 1st Edition of Webster's dictionary and the rest of us will use the Oxford English Dictionary.

By these rules, the Americans should insist that (b) is the correct spelling.

Or at least admit that maybe the people who make up the rules don't know what the hell they are talking about ...

Mac.

expatbrat
08-07-2006, 01:02 PM
6/10.

Sandi LeFaucheur
08-07-2006, 03:39 PM
If I'd ever learned what subjunctive was, I'd forgotten. Obviously in one of those six trillion brain cells I've killed off. And it certainly isn't one of those words one works into everyday speech. But funnily, after reading this thread, I sat down to watch Morse, and he told the sergeant off for getting his subjunctive wrong!

Jamesaritchie
08-07-2006, 06:40 PM
But surely since subjunctive includes 'possibilities' by the definition above, theno "If I were mistaken, I'm sorry" IS subjunctive - as there is a possibility that I may (or may not) have been mistaken ?

OK - here's an easy question (although technically is about spelling, not grammer) :

Which is correct :

a. "Man does not live by bread alone." -or-
b. "Man does not live by bred alone." ?

Naturally the Americans here will use the 1st Edition of Webster's dictionary and the rest of us will use the Oxford English Dictionary.

By these rules, the Americans should insist that (b) is the correct spelling.

Or at least admit that maybe the people who make up the rules don't know what the hell they are talking about ...

Mac.

The problem, I think, is with definitions of subjunctive mood. The Encarta one bites. Definitions usually read in the negative, and say something like "Subjunctive mood expresses a condition which is doubtful or not factual." This is true enough, but it often gives the wrong idea. You can say "If I were a rich man" means it's doubtful or not true that I am a rich man, and you'd be correct.

But it really means I am not a rich at the present time, no matter how much I wish to be, and no matter what future possibilitie shold.

Subjuntive mood only allows future possibilities, and I think this is where you're going wrong. Subjective mood is saying that right now, at this moment in time, this is how it is. No doubt about it, no possibility at all that it's different right now, whatever future possibilities may hold.

If you want to use "were," you have to mean there is NO possibility that you're wrong. "If I were mistaken, which I most certainly am not, I would apologize." Say this sentence aloud and pay attention to which words you emphasize. You should say, If I were mistaken, which I most certainly am not, I would apologize."

If you want to use "was," you have to mean there's a possibility that things are different right now. Present possibilities, not future ones.

You wouldn't say, "I'd go swimming, if it wasn't so cold." It's possible it may warm up in the future, you can wish it would warm up, etc. But right at the moment in time when you make this statement, it is too cold to swim, and no power on earth can change this fact. Even if it warms up three seconds later, it doesn't matter.

Subjuntive mood also allows for a doubt, a wish, a regret, a request, a demand, or a proposal, but it does not allow for any of these things to be possible at the moment in time when the sentence is written or spoken.

Subjuntive mood says, "If I were to demand," not "If I was to demand." So far I have demanded nothing, even though I might in the future. Subjunctive mood.

I also think it's a mistake to believe people sit around making up rules. They really don't. Rules evolve from usage that works best, not usage from rules. People really do not make up rules. They look at what has already been done, how real people use words and expressions to the best result, and simply say "Obviously, time and reader comprehension show this makes for better, clearer writing than does that, so we'll go with this one, and not with that one."

They don't make the rule, they simply adopt it from what has proven good and effective over time. And with subjunctive mood, it works very well.

I'm not sure where you're going with the spelling. Spelling is correct or incorrect depending on the country you're in, not the dictionary you use. So are grammar and punctuation, for that matter.

Tilly
08-07-2006, 09:22 PM
::falls off chair in astonishment::

9/10 woohoo!

I've worked on my spelling and grammar a lot, because I know I'm weak in both. I take this as a sign of progress :)

reph
08-07-2006, 09:46 PM
But surely since subjunctive includes 'possibilities' by the definition above, theno "If I were mistaken, I'm sorry" IS subjunctive - as there is a possibility that I may (or may not) have been mistaken ?No. Encarta's definition of "subjunctive" isn't complete. There are other ways to talk about possibilities. For example, you can say "It's possible that the keys are under the table." That doesn't make the verb subjunctive. Subjunctive is used to state things that definitely aren't true. It would be better to say subjunctive is used for IMpossibilities and hypothetical conditions.

You wouldn't say "If I were mistaken, I'm sorry." There'd be no call for it. You say "If I were mistaken" when your being mistaken is purely hypothetical because you're sure you were right. So you don't have a reason to be sorry.

You'd never say "If I were mistaken yesterday..." Something happened yesterday. The event is over and done with. Either you were mistaken or you weren't. One of these conditions is a fact, but you don't know which. So you say "If I was mistaken yesterday..."

What if the event is happening right now? Then, if you're not sure you're right, you say "If I'm mistaken..." If you're sure you're right, you say "If I were mistaken..."

Bk_30
08-08-2006, 05:54 PM
6/10...time to pull out the ol' grammer books...again.

Heartsease
08-08-2006, 11:44 PM
I got eight of ten and frankly I am so embarrassed I can't stand it. Bad/badly and irregardless caught me *sigh*

LA