Self-publishing: What makes a difference?

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bubblegirl

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After reading a lot of information about POD publishers, I wonder nobody has yet adopted a healthier business model. For example, let the author pay $400 for book production, online stores and catalog inclusions, but why not have editing and marketing staff to properly work with the book?

If a firm was to correctly edit books, run 10,000+ copies per print run and fully market a book, would our opinions change on self-publishing? Would authors and books be judged as books published by traditional houses?

Could authors get a chance where they may not usually?
Would book reviewers accept galleys?
Would stores order or stock titles?

I'm just wondering after reading some of the self-publishing disasters spoken about online. Somehow I wonder why there isn't a company as I suggested above, who are devoted to putting quality books out that may "just miss out" in traditional publishing circuits.


S.
 

Provrb1810meggy

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Marketing may help, but I don't think they'll ever reach the success of traditionally published books. Most people will automatically assume self published equals bad, because it wasn't good enough to make it with a traditional publisher, but hey, I may be filled with crap, so who knows?
 

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If a firm was to correctly edit books, run 10,000+ copies per print run and fully market a book, would our opinions change on self-publishing?

If the firm did all that, it wouldn't be POD, it would be a traditional small publisher. And it would cost someone -- the firm or the author -- considerably more than $400 per manuscript to print 10,000 copies, let alone the cost of hiring competent people to edit, market and distribute the books.

And if the firm is picking up the cost, instead of the author, or even if the firm is picking up part of the cost, the firm is not going to take any mansucript that falls into its mailbox, but is going to be every bit as selective as any other traditional publisher that's out to find good books that 10,000 people would want to read.

JD
 

bubblegirl

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Very true. I just thought if CERTAIN POD publishers can survive with authors NOT selling books alone, there must be some way for a publisher to market and edit books correctly and sales to pay for these staff members.

If an author believes in the book, they should have a POD publisher that can support them the whole way. Surely, marketing and creating an impressive image can be done for a fair budget. For example, primary advertising in Australian bookselling magazines is $975AU. Press releases can be sent to media outlets for little cost also. Galleys for reviews cost $12each (or less). Even these small marketing beginnings by the firm, with a return policy would be a start.

Then there's the author's part of promotion. Book signings, magazine / TV interviews, personal website, and specific interest groups.

The author's $400 would cover the book editing and designs, online bookstore submission and brick and mortar catalog promotion. The rest of the cost would be to the publisher. As noted above, small press runs and cost-effective marketing would move the book forward. Because the author pays for book design and editing, the publisher has a lot smaller cost and may take more "chances" on books that "may not sell."


Okay, back to my utopia :D
 

eldragon

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Marketing may help, but I don't think they'll ever reach the success of traditionally published books. Most people will automatically assume self published equals bad, because it wasn't good enough to make it with a traditional publisher, but hey, I may be filled with crap, so who knows?


I think we are equating the general public with writers. Most people, I assume, do not open a book and see who published it, and if they did - they wouldn't recognize LULU as being a self-published work as opposed to Harper Collins.

Am I right?
 

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I think there is simply a tipping point. For a company to make that effort they would need to either charge thousands (and if the book sucked it still wouldn't worked and their writers would hate them) or they would need to be selective and so become a small press.

I think that within the 'all-comers' model there is a role for places like Lulu And there is a small niche for those few subsidy publishers that share the costs with the writer because they are in a small niche.
 

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bubblegirl said:
If an author believes in the book, they should have a POD publisher that can support them the whole way.

The problem is, pretty much EVERY author believes in their book. But POD books just don't sell in large enough numbers, because they're by definition not printed and put on shelves to entice buyers. They're printed only when someone has already chosen to buy the book -- and how many of us want to buy books sight unseen? The author putting in $400 is unlikely to ever earn back their investment; ditto for the publisher.

The only way to make lots of money is to sell lots of copies. The only way to sell lots of copies is to print lots of copies. The only way to print lots of copies is to invest lots of money in the book.

Check out this link:
http://alg.livejournal.com/84032.html#cutid1
in which an editor at a large publishing house breaks it down into dollars and cents. Taking a manuscript from go to whoa costs around $20,000.
 

bubblegirl

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Thanks for that. I was just wondering how the POD industry could improve.

There is a particular POD publisher making it bad, yet they continue to survive. How do they survive when authors don't pay up-front and hardly sell books? Where does their money come from?

I just thought if they could survive (somehow), then maybe a POD publisher could help authors market and afford to do it. They would have to be more selective, but could take on more titles that may be seen as "not quite good enough" by agents.
 

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If you mean Publish America, they survive by selling books back to their authors. An author may not pay much up front, besides the $30 copyright registration fee, and they may get a one dollar advance, but then the vast majority of them get convinced to buy 10 or 50 or 200 copies of their own book -- at hugely inflated prices -- which they're then supposed to sell out of the boot of their car to friends and family. Multiply that profit times 11,000 'happy authors' and it's a cash cow.

A lot of small presses run on POD, and they do make a profit -- not a lot, but enough to survive -- selling books to a small, defined niche market. It's not the quality of the books that differentiates them from books that agents and big publishers take on; it's the subject matter. Just guessing at numbers -- there are fifty million American women who read romance, and an average romance title should sell to 0.1% of them -- or 50,000 copies. There are a million American women who read lesbian romance, so any given lesbian title should sell, correspondingly, a thousand copies. The latter is not enough to make it worthwhile to Harlequin, but it still works out profitable for a small press like Regal Crest on a POD system.
 

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Yeah, the bottom line is that for the typical POD/Vanity publisher... the money's in what they charge the author, not in the book sales themselves, because face it... If the book legitimately had a chance to go big, 99 times out of a 100 a bigger fish would have snapped it up.
 

maestrowork

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A lot of it has to do with reputation, too. People knows Random House and St. Martin or their imprints... They know they can always count on the quality of the product. With smaller presses, it's more difficult but it's possible, if the publishers are known to have published great books for niche markets or book stores are familiar with them. With vanity, the odds are against you because of their reputation of a) uneven quality, from utter crap to occasional rare gems, b) no return policies, trade reviews, distribution, etc. and c) difficulties to deal with.

It's not to say the publishing world is not changing. But the business model is old, and change is slow. And we're writers -- we're not going to reinvent the wheels even if we try.
 

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Especially when we're talking about a medium (paper) that's being stiffly contested by others.
 

marsm

Our two cents worth

Let me start with a brief introduction, and then seek some guidance from the people in this discussion.

I run a Dubai-based custom publishing house that produces bespoke publications for some of the world's largest brands such as Chanel, Puma and Cisco to name a few. This is not a sales pitch – promise.

I come from an editorial background, and my passion still lies in creative writing, having come from the world of magazines, and sold my soul to run a company that produces books (on a business level) for large corporations.

I, however, am now looking to diversify my company to now start offering custom publishing services to authors that can't really affords the ten of thousands of dollars to get published. At the same time, we are not a company that is willing to risk taking on hundreds of authors.

We have an editorial team and award-winning creative team - we can professionally (using the best professionals in the business) to edit, sub-edit, design, etc, a 240 page book for in the region of $1,100. I’m not sure how this compares to other companies – some feedback would probably be appreciated here.

We have access to a multitude of printing presses (offset and digital) and we can undertake all printing requirements with special finishes, die-cuts, etc. even on small quantities. Printing is our strength, and we can do whatever the author wants (at good rates), but what I would like to establish is what you guys think is the best model to follow to help aspiring authors get published.

What’s important is that as a company we committed and we are ready to make a move with this project - my tech/IT team finished the web site yesterday (fully e-commerce enabled), but we are waiting patiently to formulate a sales model that will make us as a company happy, and more importantly to keep the author happy.

Also, because we're based in Dubai, this is a tax-free zone, and we will use our existing corporate rates with couriers to be able to ship books anywhere in the world for extremely competitive rates. Needless to say we can warehouse books too (15 or 20 copies) and print more when stocks drop below a certain level. We have a logistics department that can take care of this.

As I’ve said, we are a committed company, and from the research we've conducted, there appear to be a lot of issues with existing POD publishers. There also appear to be massive issues using retailers in general because of the funds they retain. In a nutshell, we want to enter this segment, extremely sensibly though, and make an impact. In order for this to happen, we would like to hear from the people on the ground, along with their experiences, to come up with a model that works for everyone.

I look forward to hearing from you with your thoughts. Please do not hesitate to PM or email me.
 

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marsm said:
... what I would like to establish is what you guys think is the best model to follow to help aspiring authors get published. ...

...we are waiting patiently to formulate a sales model that will make us as a company happy, and more importantly to keep the author happy.
...
It will be generally agreed, I believe, that the BEST model is for authors to work to professional standards and to pursue commercial publication through agents and through queries and proposals to publishers that accept unagented approaches. The best help is advice and support in the areas of (1) quality writing and (2) quality preparation of queries and book proposals.

Now, for those who do choose self-publishing (and there are many books for which that is in fact an appropriate option, although only with clear understanding of its challenges and limits and in recognition that self-publishing IS a business), it is essential that the author understand intended audience, how to reach that audience, and how to select and purchase editing, book design, printing, marketing, and distribution options that are appropriate and cost-effective. It is not clear to me that (from what you described) you can be of any assistance there. That is, you cannot do the author's work and preparation for him or her. One of the prominent books on self-publishing (Dan Poynter's or Tom & Marilyn Ross's), or training via PMA (Publishers Marketing Association, http://www.pma-online.org/), or both, would be far more suitable.

Now, having said that, if you can offer cost-effective printing services, fine. Nothing wrong with that. But you are in competition with printers (offset and POD and those who offer both) in the U.S. and very competitively priced offset printers in Asia.

Folks who want to get a foot in the door of self-publishing or its rough equivalent, subsidy publishing, have plenty of options right now, including the economical and efficient Lulu.com. Those who want more handholding and who need more help with such mechanics as manuscript formatting for publication have the choice of Aventine Press, Trafford, iUniverse, and many others of varying cost and reputation. Authors can also buy book design services, copyediting, and so on from numerous independent contractors. Having bought those services, they are then able to proceed via several self-publishing or low-cost POD options.

Bottom line: can you beat what Lulu.com (one model) offers, or what Aventine Press (for example; a different model) offers? If so, in what ways?

FWIW, I went through the publishing process with Lulu.com a few days ago to see how it worked -- reformatted a short-book-length manuscript, uploaded, made selections of options, and ordered two copies (6x9" trade paperbacks). That took part of an afternoon. My copies should be here by next week. My total cost: about $16 for the two copies, including shipping. If I were to want more copies, I could easily order them. That is tough competition.

--Ken
 
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ResearchGuy

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maestrowork said:
...we're writers -- we're not going to reinvent the wheels even if we try.
Tell that to my self-publishing acquaintance (working in a solid nonfiction niche with national and international markets for his products) who has twice rejected buyout offers from a major commercial publisher.

:)

--Ken
 

Lauri B

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bubblegirl said:
The author's $400 would cover the book editing and designs, online bookstore submission and brick and mortar catalog promotion. The rest of the cost would be to the publisher. As noted above, small press runs and cost-effective marketing would move the book forward. Because the author pays for book design and editing, the publisher has a lot smaller cost and may take more "chances" on books that "may not sell."


Okay, back to my utopia :D
$400 wouldn't even come close to covering the costs for editing and design, online bookstore submission, and catalog promotion. Not even remotely close.
 

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The problem with POD and success being used in the same sentence is that POD doesn't allow much profit margin, so it's very difficult to bootstrap yourself up from one or two sales to a thousand or more. The other barriers we already know about--bookshelf presence, getting reviews, etc. only make it worse.

If the book is one with a wide market appeal and has a legitimate chance to sell thousands of copies, you're better off going with an offset print run.
 

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LloydBrown said:
...If the book is one with a wide market appeal and has a legitimate chance to sell thousands of copies, you're better off going with an offset print run.
Indeed. IF.

There are risk calculations involved. How much risk does one want to take of winding up with a garage full of books that cost thousands of dollars to print? (Say, three bucks a copy for a print run of 3,000 copies -- $9,000.) How willing is the author to take on all of the roles required of such a self-publisher? Not everyone can take those risks or has those skills and opportunities. It might make a lot of sense to trade down the risk at a cost in reduced opportunity. If the book shows real appeal after a POD trial run, there is still the option to shop for agent or publisher or to self-publish with an offset print run.

--Ken
 

marsm

Thanks for the insightful response Ken

Bottom line: can you beat what Lulu.com (one model) offers, or what Aventine Press (for example; a different model) offers? If so, in what ways?

At this stage in the game, this appears to the question for us - find ways that we can better existing players in the market. I feel that there are areas that we can be of extremel benefit, but before I comment, I'm going to take a few hours to check out what lulu, and other established players offer. I also have meetings with three of my printers today to discuss rates and "special" things we can do. Will share my findings over the course of the next few days.

reformatted a short-book-length manuscript, uploaded, made selections of options, and ordered two copies (6x9" trade paperbacks). That took part of an afternoon. My copies should be here by next week. My total cost: about $16 for the two copies, including shipping.

May I please enquire as to the total pagination for the book, paper used (inside and covers) and what artwork was used on the cover? This will allow me to see how far (or close) we are to the mark.

$400 wouldn't even come close to covering the costs for editing and design, online bookstore submission, and catalog promotion. Not even remotely close.

Quite - on the prelimary calculations we did, we were rather "shocked" by the $400 statement.
 

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bubblegirl said:
The author's $400 would cover the book editing and designs, online bookstore submission and brick and mortar catalog promotion.

You're not expecting to pay the editor, the graphic designer, or the sales person much, are you?
 

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marsm said:
Thanks for the insightful response Ken

...

May I please enquire as to the total pagination for the book, paper used (inside and covers) and what artwork was used on the cover? This will allow me to see how far (or close) we are to the mark.
...
Sure. Bear in mind, this was a quick little project I had at hand. That particular book was 90-some pages. Paper? I don't know. Whatever Lulu's default paper is. Artwork? I uploaded a simple cover as a pdf. I could have made it pretty much whatever I wanted, but since this was just an experiment, it was not fancy. (Price would not have varied with a different cover design, and another option would have been to use a Lulu gallery cover or to upload separate front, back, and spine pdf images -- no effect on price.)

The pricing for trade paperback is $.02 (two cents) per b/w interior page + $4.53, so a 100-page book would be $6.53, a 200-page book $8.53, and so on.

You can explore www.lulu.com for more information on their pricing. Especially see: http://www.lulu.com/help/index.php?fSymbol=book_pricing .

Lulu is only for someone who can properly format a complete book manuscript for publication -- headers, footers, pagination, margins, gutter, table of contents, section breaks, paragraph and heading styles, fonts, and so on, and with the technical skills to upload files and manage the other steps required. Those who cannot will have to buy help or use another provider who includes such services. Aventine Press (www.aventinepress.com) and various others do provide such services, for a fee. And of course there is the notorious and problematic PublishAmerica -- generally held in low repute, but obviously attractive to many authors, at least until they discover the hidden costs and the quality issues, by which time it is too late.

--Ken
 

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id say the minimum investment (editing, design, layout, marketing, distribution, catalog..) for a paperback is about $2000 and thats if you pay the absolute minimum and still expect quality - top editors alone can charge a lot per ms, and that doesnt include the printing cost, so considering that you will know how many you will have to sell to make back your investment - self pub is not for everyone for that reason
 

marsm

Lulu is only for someone who can properly format a complete book manuscript for publication -- headers, footers, pagination, margins, gutter, table of contents, section breaks, paragraph and heading styles, fonts, and so on, and with the technical skills to upload files and manage the other steps required.

I played around with their site yesterday - I have to say, it's a very good, functional website, but as you've pointed out Ken, you need to know what you're doing. I specifically started using a document where there would be issues such as chapter names at the bottom of pages, loads of orphan lines and widows which just look silly when printed, and I can see what you're saying - the time investment can be substantial, provided you know what you're doing to start with and that you pay attention to detail.

Following on from my posts over the past few days, after visiting many sites, we are not really offering any that others aren't already. We’re not re-inventing the wheel, but what we are doing as a company that comes from a strong custom publishing background is offer high-quality services to authors in important areas such as editing and design. We have a great, award-winning team, and we have recently secured the additional services of two excellent book editors with years of experience, and our editorial panel is also high-qualified.

In addition to the editorial, we have an award-winning art director that is working on inside page layouts, and an area that we will focus on intently is cover design. I am of the opinion that you can’t judge a book by its cover, but you’re twice as likely to pick it up off the shelf and buy it if the cover design is enticing and representative of the book. Coming from a magazine background, I know how important covers are to the overall success of over-the-counter sales.

On the topic of printing – we have a reputable digital printing press that we use for smaller projects, but we are now also engaging in talks with our offset printers to undertake smaller print runs for us. We only work with ISO-certified printing presses, so all the books that are produced will adhere to the highest standards. To quickly address differences in pricing, it would have cost you $15.50 to print two books if we’d printed it (90 pages, perfect bound with full colour cover). Where you saved though, is in the area of design where you did that yourself, and couriering these books to you from the UAE would have been an additional $20 (approx).

At the end of the day, we’re just providing a service, providing more quality perhaps, than many others are offering, and we realize that we are not really going to make a dent on the US market purely because of the distance game. Why pay more to get stuff shipped from the UAE when you have these services in the US right?

The area that we will be focusing on as a result of this is to offer authors the opportunity of getting their books published in the Middle East, where such services do not exist, and there are two ways that we are thinking of tackling this:

  • There is a massive Western expat community living in places like Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Jeddah, Riyadh, Manama, Doha, Kuwait City, Muscat, etc. The Middle East as a whole is starving for entertainment, and reading is a big pastime amongst expats, and the book shops are always looking for new, fresh material. We already have a distribution network because of our other business activities.
  • Our reputation in the local market has been the quality of our Arabic team, which is why we are the chosen publishers for companies such as Chanel and Cisco in the Middle East on the back of this – the Arab world, especially in places such as Saudi Arabia where they don’t even have cinema, is very much geared towards reading. What we will look at doing is translate existing materials into Arabic (and we have an unmatched team in this year that does excellent translations), and get them printed for the regional market. Needless to say we have Arabic designers. This will allow authors in places such as the States and Europe to get their books published in a different language that will allow them to pass their work onto a new audience that they previously would not have had the opportunity of reaching.
In closing, these posts are getting longer and longer, I would appreciate it if the people involved in this topic could pop on to the site, www.leadingbrandspublishing.com/bookshop, and just have a quick glance at the three models (under Getting Published) that we’re offering to our prospective clients. Please bear in mind that the site is not yet finished, and is being set up, but all insights and feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 

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LloydBrown said:
The problem with POD and success being used in the same sentence is that POD doesn't allow much profit margin,
Only if you decide up-front to outsource your profits to a vanity company...

The underlying margins on POD are healthy. For those who inflate prices to the commonly-seen $15-20 level, the margins are fabulous (I guess a glance at the accounts of iUniverse et al would confirm this). The difficulty for the typical self-publisher is in achieving enough volume to exploit those margins.

If the book is one with a wide market appeal and has a legitimate chance to sell thousands of copies, you're better off going with an offset print run.
Presuming a work is suitable for POD in the first place (reasonable length, no halftone artwork, no fancy cover requirements etc.) then it depends on your attitude to risk and to the cost/work of warehousing and shipping. Say a self-publisher can buy a POD book for $5 and sell it for $12. How much cheaper is an offset book going to have to be to make up for the downsides? Myself, I'd go POD, pocket the $7, and pass on the hassle and cost of a print run (unless I could persuade someone else to fund and manage the print run, of course :)).
 

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huw said:
Only if you decide up-front to outsource your profits to a vanity company

That wasn't one of my assumptions.

The underlying margins on POD are healthy. For those who inflate prices to the commonly-seen $15-20 level, the margins are fabulous (I guess a glance at the accounts of iUniverse et al would confirm this). The difficulty for the typical self-publisher is in achieving enough volume to exploit those margins.

Apparently, we have a different view of a healthy margin. I think a healthy margin should a) allow a second tier of resellers enough profit to make carrying the book a viable option, and b) remain competitively priced. Your example of buying for $5 and selling for $12 sounds unlikely given what you can afford for $5 with POD. Lulu's cost for a 6x9 tpb is $5.17, and that's only 32 pages. 32 pages is not an easy sale at $12.

Even with that implausible margin, selling that same book to resellers leaves little gross profit. Selling at a 40% discount drops your gross profit margin to 18.3% ($2.20 profit on a $12 item). You only get your 59% margin on direct-to-consumer, undiscounted sales. Ideally, for a $12 price, you should be looking for a production cost of $2.40, which is easily achievable.

The difference in an offset print run and your POD price in this example is about $2,500 per thousand copies sold. On your second thousand copies sold, the difference increases because reprints are cheaper with offset. That's not true with POD.

Storage isn't much of an issue. 1,000 copies of that book won't take up much more room than your dining room table. The cost of shipping isn't that bad, because you can set your rates such that single-copy purchasers pay enough to make back anything you spend on bulk shipping to resellers (the publisher typically pays for shipping to distributors).

To look at it another way, offset printing is inifinitely sustainable, since each book sale (even through resellers) pays for another book.

Of course, if you expect to sell fewer than a thousand copies, you're really doing this because you want to, and not because it's a commercially viable project.
 
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