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Ordinary_Guy
08-03-2006, 10:18 AM
Anybody a spelunker? How about just an explorer?

Personally, I've always had an interest in caves, manmade or natural. There's something about the darkness, the enclosed space, the danger... something very enticing that really makes for a great setting if you can capture the mood.

Share your underground stories or share other folks' underground stories that you think are interesting and nifty enough to inspire a story or two!

I'll start with a link to an abandoned missile silo (http://www.triggur.org/silo/). I wasn't the one doing the exploration but I stumbled over the site and found it was so thorough it was really like you were there (short of the smells and sounds).

Here's a blurb (http://triggur.org/silo/shaft.html) from a page just after descent into the complex:

We are standing on a platform at the top of the elevator shaft, looking back at the entrance pit. The concrete column (painted 'toxic') was apparently dropped into the pit to block passage, but really provided a means of climbing down. Beyond the column is a small, dark room containing the sealed-off staircase to the surface. The steps down into the elevator shaft are to the right of the photo. True for all of the underground photos, the place is NOT usually this brightly lit; there is NO electricity at the site, and everything is musty, damp, pitch black. Interestingly enough, there are NO signs of life anywhere in the whole complex; not even a rat or a spider. This may mean that it's just pretty well sealed, or it may mean something worse, that something is preventing things from living down there.

Kate Thornton
08-03-2006, 05:45 PM
Man, I am so claustrophobic I have a hard time staying within the margins of a page!!

Caves scare me. Missile silos scare me. That place under your house scares me.

soloset
08-03-2006, 11:11 PM
I'm afraid of my closet, but that's because it's haunted, not because it's small and dark.

Those "Urban Explorers" puzzle me on so many levels. I'm sure the odds of becoming so irradiated that you glow in the dark are slim to none when exploring old missile silos, but still...

Ordinary_Guy
08-03-2006, 11:55 PM
...That place under your house scares me.
They scare me too, but I suppose that's what makes it exciting. Still, it's one thing to go in to a high-risk situation with your eyes open and knowing the risks... it gets really scary when the risks come to you (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12457889/).

ALTA, Calif. - After two days of recovery attempts, workers reached the body of a man who was killed when a huge hole opened beneath his house.

Authorities identified the victim as 32-year-old Jason Chellew, a schoolteacher whose wife was pregnant.

Chellew was relaxing in his living room about 9:30 p.m. Friday when he heard creaking noises, sprang up and began to move across the room just as the floor opened beneath him, authorities said...

Jamesaritchie
08-03-2006, 11:59 PM
I love caves. Spending a couple of years in Kentucky as a teen got me started. There were caves everywhere in those mountains, and I loved exploring them.

Not too many hair raising experiences, but we did once find an Indian burial site in a cave.

Much of that cave system still hasn't been explored, and if I were a few years younger, I'd go back and finish the job. I have a friend who is still an avid spelunker, and he goes down there a couple of times a year, but no great finds yet.

nevada
08-04-2006, 12:38 AM
David Morrell just came out with a novel about urban explorers called Creepers. It starts out promising and then just dissolves into a whole book of people talking. Probably the weakest Morrell I've ever read. It's obvious he's done a lot of research into Creeping but it reads like a non-fiction book. In short, it sucked. lol But Urban Exploring sounds really interesting

Soccer Mom
08-04-2006, 07:30 AM
Little small dark places.
*shudders*
I can't imagine a more terrifying setting for a thriller. Those places come with a built in creep factor.

Another creepy place: Storm cellars. my Grandmother had one and she always made everyone go down there in case of tornado. I hated it. I'd rather face an f4 than go down into that thing again.

Jamesaritchie
08-04-2006, 02:03 PM
There is a form of exploration I love, though I wouldn't suggest women or mild-manner men try it. An example is this. Find a dark and dirty alley. Walk down it. When you see a rusty old door that looks foreboding, go try to open it. If it's unlocked, go inside and see what you find.

Odds are it's just a seldom used door to a perfectly respectable business. But sometimes big surprises await.

Another example is that big old storm drain. Fine, get a flashlight and go see what's in there.

Or how about that huge, abandoned factory? Wonder if it has a basement? If it does, what might have moved in down there in the thirty years since the place was closed? You know, come to think of it, quite a few people have disappeared in your city over the years, haven't they? Most of them made few headlines. Some were homeless. Some of these may have wondered off to other cities. But some may not have. And a few of those disappearances weren't homeless people. One was a happily married woman who went to the grocery and was never seen again. A couple more were teenage girls out for a jog. One was a staid, small business owner. Shoot, maybe he just got tired of being married and ran off. Maybe.

But perhaps the reason for some of these disappearances lies in the basement of that adandoned factory. Why not get a flashligh and go see?

If nothing else, it will make your breathing shallow, your heart beat faster, and give you something to write about.

Kate Thornton
08-04-2006, 05:39 PM
Jeeze, Jamesaritchie, there's no way I would do that alone! I just got the creeps reading about it!

three seven
08-04-2006, 05:57 PM
Or how about that huge, abandoned factory? Wonder if it has a basement?
It's not abandoned, but I work nights (alone) guarding a large meat processing plant. The picture below shows the basement, in one corner of which is a rusty steel door. Behind the door is a brick-lined, earth-filled tunnel which snakes beneath the foundations to... well, somewhere. I've yet to speak to anyone who's ventured beyond the first turn. It's pitch black, damp and one-man narrow. I've never been more than a few feet inside, and have always retreated at the first sign of movement in the torchlight. I'm curious, but there's no way in hell I'm going down there on my own...

Lloydyboy
08-04-2006, 06:04 PM
I was always playing around with the idea of deep sea divers uncoveraing an underwater cave that opens into a huge subteranian cave (air pocket). Inside they find remnants of a lost civilization that clearly predates our history by a considerable margine.

Couldn't get anywhere with it, though. My mind doesn't work that way.

Jamesaritchie
08-04-2006, 06:39 PM
It's not abandoned, but I work nights (alone) guarding a large meat processing plant. The picture below shows the basement, in one corner of which is a rusty steel door. Behind the door is a brick-lined, earth-filled tunnel which snakes beneath the foundations to... well, somewhere. I've yet to speak to anyone who's ventured beyond the first turn. It's pitch black, damp and one-man narrow. I've never been more than a few feet inside, and have always retreated at the first sign of movement in the torchlight. I'm curious, but there's no way in hell I'm going down there on my own...

Now that sounds like the perfect place to explore. If you ever do, the important thing is to remember the way it feels when you go around that first turn. And at some point beyond, turn off your flashlight and stand there in teh darkness for five minutes. And remember what that feels like.

Ordinary_Guy
08-04-2006, 10:50 PM
I was always playing around with the idea of deep sea divers uncoveraing an underwater cave that opens into a huge subteranian cave (air pocket). Inside they find remnants of a lost civilization that clearly predates our history by a considerable margine.

Couldn't get anywhere with it, though. My mind doesn't work that way.
I've had similar ideas, divers and all (a bunch of them, actually). It'd be an interesting plot point to incorporate technical diving, though I've poked at having a few competent sport divers find a cave while on vacation.

The big problem has been a struggle to find an angle on it that doesn't echo any of the recent rash of cave B movies ("The Cave", "The Descent"). I wasn't even thinking of screenplays but when movies raise caves back to public consciousness, it makes it a challenge to find a novel angle.

Ordinary_Guy
08-04-2006, 11:32 PM
A cool idea and I recommend it...

There is a form of exploration I love, though I wouldn't suggest women or mild-manner men try it. An example is this. Find a dark and dirty alley. Walk down it. When you see a rusty old door that looks foreboding, go try to open it. If it's unlocked, go inside and see what you find.

Odds are it's just a seldom used door to a perfectly respectable business. But sometimes big surprises await.
...then my inner attorney stepped in.

A couple of caveats before you do:
Nobody is suggesting anything illegal or dangerous. Having a record that includes "Breaking and Entry" or "Trespassing" won't necessarily be considered credentials by a publisher.
Make certain to note (if not follow) any warning signs posted around a site of interest.
Look for graffiti or discarded trash: if you see some, then restricted access is likely unenforced. OTOH, it also means that you could run into other... explorers.
Make sure you tell a friend where you're going and when you'll be back (and if you haven't checked in with 18-24 hours, to send backup).
Bring a cell phone. There's a good chance it won't work where you're going but it couldn't hurt to have it (just beware if you're going into a damp environment).
If it's a particular challenge, bring a friend with you. Preferably a large friend.
Make sure your tetanus shots are up to date.
Gloves are handy (so to speak).
Bring a light source and a backup light source.
If you can sne... um, gain access without being obvious, wear some sort of helmet.
Some sort of utility utensil is handy. I certainly can't advocate carrying a knife, especially in an urban environ, but a Leatherman-type multi-tool might be just the thing to help you get out of a bind (or, if you're really determined, deeper into one).
Preparation might dilute the rush a bit, but there's a better chance you'll be around to talk about it. Also note that this is not a comprehensive list...

Another example is that big old storm drain. Fine, get a flashlight and go see what's in there.
Never, ever do this. It's dangerous and could be illegal depending on your city's ordinances.

...But if you do, check the weather first. Tunneling before a thunderstorm is a bad idea. If you live around mountains, check the weather everywhere within 25 miles. If you're downgrade and it's sunny, make sure you look up toward the peaks and see if they're getting rained on. That water will make its way down, then so will you. If you're dry and good to go, then make sure you follow the above list.

On a related note, next time it rains, go look at those channels/storm drains and you'll get some idea of what kind of force a mass amount of water can bring. Should give some ideas for swift water rescue stories...

Or how about that huge, abandoned factory? Wonder if it has a basement? If it does, what might have moved in down there in the thirty years since the place was closed? You know, come to think of it, quite a few people have disappeared in your city over the years, haven't they? Most of them made few headlines. Some were homeless. Some of these may have wondered off to other cities. But some may not have. And a few of those disappearances weren't homeless people. One was a happily married woman who went to the grocery and was never seen again. A couple more were teenage girls out for a jog. One was a staid, small business owner. Shoot, maybe he just got tired of being married and ran off. Maybe.
Or that writer that disappeared...? ;)

But perhaps the reason for some of these disappearances lies in the basement of that adandoned factory. Why not get a flashligh and go see?
Abandoned factory = very cool possibility for scene but ultra high threats of tetanus from mere scratches, broken glass and any number of other hazards (like abandoned equipment that can slice, pierce, impale or bludgeon somebody into meat pancakes).

But if you go, bring a camera...

If nothing else, it will make your breathing shallow, your heart beat faster, and give you something to write about.
Definitely. :Thumbs:

...Or so I hear.

Ordinary_Guy
08-04-2006, 11:52 PM
Now that sounds like the perfect place to explore. If you ever do, the important thing is to remember the way it feels when you go around that first turn. And at some point beyond, turn off your flashlight and stand there in teh darkness for five minutes. And remember what that feels like.
Three Seven: when you stop, really listen. Listen for your breath, your heartbeat, any echoes, vibration from traffic, water dripping.

As for James' "feeling" it – stretch it from emotions to sensations. Feeling prickles on the back of your neck? Light fluttery sensation in your stomach? A sudden sweat? What are you thinking about? Being somewhere else? What your next step is? That client report you've got to finish on Monday?

Try something: with the light on, check to make sure your next step (or next few) are safe. Turn off your light... and take a step in the dark.

NOTE: do not, under any circumstances, "explore" a subway tunnel. The train is universally bound to arrive when people have zero room to move. There will 6 inches of space between a steel car running at 60 miles an hour and a reinforced concrete wall – and unfortunately, you'll have 8 inches of skull to pack in a 6 inch space (http://www.1010wins.com/pages/30703.php).

Jamesaritchie
08-05-2006, 12:36 AM
A cool idea and I recommend it...

...then my inner attorney stepped in.

A couple of caveats before you do:
Nobody is suggesting anything illegal or dangerous. Having a record that includes "Breaking and Entry" or "Trespassing" won't necessarily be considered credentials by a publisher.
Make certain to note (if not follow) any warning signs posted around a site of interest.
Look for graffiti or discarded trash: if you see some, then restricted access is likely unenforced. OTOH, it also means that you could run into other... explorers.
Make sure you tell a friend where you're going and when you'll be back (and if you haven't checked in with 18-24 hours, to send backup).
Bring a cell phone. There's a good chance it won't work where you're going but it couldn't hurt to have it (just beware if you're going into a damp environment).
If it's a particular challenge, bring a friend with you. Preferably a large friend.
Make sure your tetanus shots are up to date.
Gloves are handy (so to speak).
Bring a light source and a backup light source.
If you can sne... um, gain access without being obvious, wear some sort of helmet.
Some sort of utility utensil is handy. I certainly can't advocate carrying a knife, especially in an urban environ, but a Leatherman-type multi-tool might be just the thing to help you get out of a bind (or, if you're really determined, deeper into one).
Preparation might dilute the rush a bit, but there's a better chance you'll be around to talk about it. Also note that this is not a comprehensive list...
Never, ever do this. It's dangerous and could be illegal depending on your city's ordinances.

...But if you do, check the weather first. Tunneling before a thunderstorm is a bad idea. If you live around mountains, check the weather everywhere within 25 miles. If you're downgrade and it's sunny, make sure you look up toward the peaks and see if they're getting rained on. That water will make its way down, then so will you. If you're dry and good to go, then make sure you follow the above list.

On a related note, next time it rains, go look at those channels/storm drains and you'll get some idea of what kind of force a mass amount of water can bring. Should give some ideas for swift water rescue stories...

Or that writer that disappeared...? ;)

Abandoned factory = very cool possibility for scene but ultra high threats of tetanus from mere scratches, broken glass and any number of other hazards (like abandoned equipment that can slice, pierce, impale or bludgeon somebody into meat pancakes).

But if you go, bring a camera...

Definitely. :Thumbs:

...Or so I hear.

Jeeze, you're taking all the fun out of it. Everything is dangerous. Take a chance.

I do carry a pocket knife, but I certainly don't depend on it for self-defense. For that I carry a Colt Gold Cup. Colonel Colt is a very big friend.

And I don't even own a cell phone. Everyone else in the family does, but I hate the things.

For me, taking someone else along changes the whole scenario. It's too easy to be brave when you have company. It can make you take foolish chances. But, no, those who aren't used to such things should go slowly and follow your list.

I've been doing scarier things since I was fourteen, and I've been in much scarier places alone. The last thing I worry about is meeting other "explorers." I usually hope I do. They make for interesting conversation, and I've never had any trouble. But maybe it's because I'm not small, and I do make sure that Gold Cup is where it can be seen.

That said, there are probably somewhere close to 25,000 people around the world who do things like this on a regular basis. They even form groups. Each group is a bit different, some are big, some are tiny, some are like me and always go solo, and where you live makes a difference, but some groups are like this one: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=380898

Ordinary_Guy
08-05-2006, 01:22 AM
Jeeze, you're taking all the fun out of it. Everything is dangerous. Take a chance.
What good is the experience if you ain't around to write about it?

I do carry a pocket knife, but I certainly don't depend on it for self-defense. For that I carry a Colt Gold Cup. Colonel Colt is a very big friend.
There's a lotta discussion on this one, from carrying on urban exploration to deep wilderness treks. Generally, I discourage carrying if someone a.) doesn't know how to handle it and b.) are not prepared to use it.

Additionally: check local laws for carrying. It varies state to state, county to county, city to city. If you value personal safety higher than risk of misdemeanor/felony on your record (which is a fair consideration), keep bail money handy. Getting busted for unlicensed concealed carrying can get you a slap on the wrist or a week in county, depending on where it happens.

And I don't even own a cell phone. Everyone else in the family does, but I hate the things.
I resisted getting a shackle until a month before I got married. It was an invaluable logistics tool. Since then, it's been good as a mobile professional device for my freelance profession. It can be a drag, yes, but I've found its usefulness outweighs its encumbrence.

For me, taking someone else along changes the whole scenario. It's too easy to be brave when you have company. It can make you take foolish chances. But, no, those who aren't used to such things should go slowly and follow your list.
It's easy to be brave when you've got a piece visible, too. Six of one, half dozen of another....

...and where you live makes a difference...
Big, enormous difference. Check local laws before doing something potentially rash (at least you'll know what you're getting into).

soloset
08-05-2006, 03:39 AM
I'm so, ah, "high-strung" (read: big chicken) I can get that rush of doing something dangerous from crossing the street. And doing things that are illegal makes me break out in a guilty rash.

I always wanted to be the sort of person who dungeon crawled, but, meh, I'm delicate, squishy, and afraid of everything. But it's really neat to read about those of you brave enough to try it.

Oh, and Ordinary Guy, has anyone ever told you your avatar looks a lot like Sean Bean?

Ordinary_Guy
08-05-2006, 04:19 AM
I'm so, ah, "high-strung" (read: big chicken) I can get that rush of doing something dangerous from crossing the street. And doing things that are illegal makes me break out in a guilty rash.

I always wanted to be the sort of person who dungeon crawled, but, meh, I'm delicate, squishy, and afraid of everything. But it's really neat to read about those of you brave enough to try it.
I could be confusing this with somebody else, but didn't Jules Verne write "Around the World in 80 Days" without ever leaving Paris?

Oh, and Ordinary Guy, has anyone ever told you your avatar looks a lot like Sean Bean?
Sean Bean? I get "Brad Pitt" a lot... [just kidding] ...but not "Sean Bean." Thanks, though I could certainly do worse than Boromir!

Jamesaritchie
08-05-2006, 04:50 AM
I can't really disagree with most of what you say. It all makes perfect sense for most people, and they should definitely follow your advice, but it's not for me.

I agree with the weapon. I never carry one anywhere unless it's legal. I'm licensed in my own state, so many states allow me to carry under reciprocal carry laws. And some places have right to carry laws for anyone. And I'm a small arms expert.

I think I'm just as brave when I don't have a weapon showing. I sure hope so. It's never been a problem, and I've been without one often enough. I'm still not particularly afraid of whoever I meet. Can't say I've ever looked at someone and been afraid just from seeing him, no matter who he was or where I saw him. The weapon is for the benefit of others, as much as mine. If I didn't have the Gold Cup showing, I might have more trouble, someone would get hurt, and it might be me. But probably not.

The best use of a weapon is to prevent trouble, not to solve it. One of those other "explorers" might have a weapon he uses for courage, and I like them to know it's an even playing field. But I've walked up and started conversations with some rough people in some desolate places when I wasn't armed. It doesn't bother me. I like meeting rough people, and people on the other side of the law are nothing new to me. They generally make for better conversations than anyone.

I'm not big on breaking and entering, either. Or on trespassing. But there are usually ways around both.

I do plan on being around to write about what I find and what I see, but it's a bit like skydiving, mountain climbing, base jumping, or wading through a swamp. (I love swamps. Too many mosquitoes, but just about the right number of people.) Many things have a risk attached, and you just have to be willing to take the risk, or you need to stay home.

I won't argue for a minute that there isn't safety in numbers, and the bigger the number, the safer you are. But I like my solitude. I've spent a lot of years going out alone into the deep wilderness, forest, mountain, desert, and tropics. And spelunking, for that matter. Few things are better than being out in the wild alone. When you have no one else to depend on, you learn to depend on yourself. Most people don't spend nearly enough time all alone, and darned few people know what self-reliance even means.

And as the saying goes, two people are twice as easy to see, and a hundred times easier to hear.

Have you ever spent even a week without hearing the sound of a human voice, including your own? No people, and of course no TV or radio or mp3 junk, etc. And you don't speak because the sound of your voice might carry too far, or because you just don't want to. It's a remarkable experience. Even more so when you get around people again. It sounds like everyone is talking too loud, and all at once. And when you try to speak the first words catch in your throat and don't want to come out. It takes a second effort to say something, and your own voice sounds strange to your ears.

I do sometimes like a good friend along, but for companionship when it's a companionship kind of trip, not because of any risk of trouble, or when there's a chance of trouble. There's no point in getting a friend in trouble just because you don't know what's good for you. And as Connager said, "A man who has to ask for help shouldn't start out in the first place."

As for the cell phone, can't do it. I hate the things. And a cell phone or a GPS unit is just anouther way of asking for help. And one thing I never want to hear is the sound of my cell phone ringing when I'm a little south of nowhere. And a cell phone doesn't work in some really wild places, anyway. Or in caves. I hate cell phones almost as much as I hate it when people go off into the wilderness carrying GPS devices.

three seven
08-05-2006, 09:53 AM
abandoned equipment that can slice, pierce, impale or bludgeon somebody into meat pancakes
...or freeze you to death, as I once learned to my amusement upon attempting to leave a thousand-square-foot freezer by way of a faulty hydraulic door. I've tended to find it's the stuff that's not discarded that's most intent on killing me.

Ordinary_Guy
08-05-2006, 10:57 AM
...I never carry one anywhere unless it's legal. I'm licensed in my own state, so many states allow me to carry under reciprocal carry laws. And some places have right to carry laws for anyone. And I'm a small arms expert.
It's good that folk read that.

There's a huge difference between an armed yahoo and somebody that knows what they're doing.

I think I'm just as brave when I don't have a weapon showing...
It sounds like you've got a good deal of self-confidence and that's a potent social tool. You're definitely likely to avoid trouble before it begins.

But there are usually ways around both.
That's the real trick...

Many things have a risk attached, and you just have to be willing to take the risk, or you need to stay home.
True. Ya gotta look before you leap... but sometimes, he who hesitates is dead.

...But I like my solitude.
I can't remember the last I had that kind of solitude.

It would be nice.

nevada
08-06-2006, 07:35 AM
Apropos to nothing, well not really, you guys were talking about spelunking right at the very beginning; I just saw the movie The Descent. Holy cow is that a scary movie. I thought it was brilliant. Mainly because there were six women, not a man in sight to "save the day", and the women kicked ***. It's a British film, I think if Hollywood had gotten their hands on it it would not have been nearly as good.

Not a slasher movie, not a lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-kill-people-before-the-audience-realizes-there's-no-plot movie. Even when I just knew something was going to happen it still made me jump. I think I squeezed my wallet to death. At one point i even screamed. Okay, not really screamed, but I did definitely make a loud noise. The director succeeds in making us feel we were in the caves with them. The tiniest passageways made me feel tight and closed up even though I was in a huge theatre with almost nobody around. Definitely a movie I would recommend.

three seven
08-06-2006, 10:08 AM
Now that sounds like the perfect place to explore.
Ten and a half hours ago, motivated by the intriguing prospect of blaming James Ritchie for my horrible screaming death, I prised open the heavy steel door and stepped inside the tunnel.

More on that story later.

three seven
08-06-2006, 06:47 PM
Ok, so last night I found myself in the brief company of a like-minded colleague. We'll call him Jeremy (because, um... that's his name). Coincidentally, Jeremy had previously been the bravest explorer of The Tunnel. He'd ventured as far as the second corner before retreating, whimpering, to the relative comfort of the basement. Well of course, I couldn't just sit there and not say anything, could I?

Armed with a clutch of torches and lighters and a pair of mobile phones, we sealed the gates and made our way down to the basement. The bravado started to ebb as I cracked open the big steel door but, having talked up the mission in such casually heroic tones, neither of us was going to back down now. And so it was that, with a tingling spine and a humourless laugh, I lit my torch and stepped into the unknown.

Hang on, my dinner's ready.

Bufty
08-06-2006, 07:04 PM
Get her to give it to you on a tray, dammit!


Hang on, my dinner's ready.

three seven
08-06-2006, 08:16 PM
Tired, disoriented and gasping for breath, we staggered out into the cool evening air. And as the sun slipped down from a vivid orange sky and the night closed in around us, we could only stand and breathe and laugh. Whatever the cost, the tunnel was ours. We were wicked awesome hardcore nija bastards. The end.


Oh, wait, did I miss a bit?

Ordinary_Guy
08-06-2006, 11:59 PM
...And so it was that, with a tingling spine and a humourless laugh, I lit my torch and stepped into the unknown.

Hang on, my dinner's ready.
Man, cliffhangers!

Excellent start! You've got me hooked!

Soccer Mom
08-07-2006, 05:44 AM
You're killing us 3/7! Share! What was in the tunnel? You'd better write the !@$^^@ story now.

Jamesaritchie
08-07-2006, 06:45 PM
Tired, disoriented and gasping for breath, we staggered out into the cool evening air. And as the sun slipped down from a vivid orange sky and the night closed in around us, we could only stand and breathe and laugh. Whatever the cost, the tunnel was ours. We were wicked awesome hardcore nija bastards. The end.


Oh, wait, did I miss a bit?

Fun, ain't it?

dclary
09-01-2006, 06:51 PM
We did storm drains in Orange County when I was a kid. All I remember about them now was coming out, slimey from the waist down, reeking of something funky, having this... viscous SOMETHING in our hair, and the sweet, sweet smell of AIR.

Kate Thornton
09-01-2006, 07:40 PM
I found a lot of dead things in storm drains.

3/7 - give us more!

Anthony Ravenscroft
09-02-2006, 11:56 AM
There are entire major cities that are built over various undergrounds.

Is it Seattle that simply built up? Some Pacific Northwest city, anyway, after an earthquake, built the new downtown atop the old. There's now tours "below" where you can walk on the streets that were closed more than a century ago, old storefronts & everything. The story is that, even before the quake, people got tired of having to climb steps & ladders to street-level, then down again, so they just redefined "street-level" & blocked off everything below.

Downtown Minneapolis sits atop limestone caves. At least one building is air-conditioned from springwater circulated up from below. Three decades ago, the mayor wanted to import gondolas from Italy to lead tours through the caves. Its sister city, St. Paul, hovers atop all sorts of caves, very popular with smugglers for almost two centuries, brought back into popularity in the 1930s.