Dissing people...

Honestly, if it were me, I'd probably be pretty upset. Is there any way that perhaps you could create composite characters from a few people or maybe change enough of the recognizable details that people wouldn't recognize themselves?

You will have to be very careful if you have any intention of publishing this work. You'll be wanting to have plenty of cushion for cries of libel. It can be easy money in the this world, suing people. It's practically a national pastime in the US.

If what you are saying is true and you're comfortable with the possibility of legal backlash, then it's a matter of weighing how bad you feel at their negative reaction, against how great it feels to get it out in an excellent book.

ETA - As far as how I'd feel? I'd be pissed.

I think it's amateur; why not first write this all down, just for you, then use the passion you capture in that to develop some fictional characters for a novel?

It may cause some trouble,

but you know, if they've had it coming to them. I guess it's good you get it out in the open

I wonder about "want to diss" rather than "want to expose the truth?" I suggest you look at your motivations and jus how you want to place this story. If it is to be fiction to explore themes--truly fictionalise and maniopulate events to best serve the narrative and concepts (which are?). if it is to be fiction as a veil and excuse against libel it may not work out for the best.

Nicegrrl, you're not just taking on individuals, you're talking about established entities who stand to suffer significant embarassment and perhaps finacial and reputation damages. They are likely to fight back.

If you have an expose in your back pocket, you may want to consider shopping it around, discretely, as a non-fiction proposal before you invest the time and energy in writing it. If it's a good enough story, you may consider seeking the backing of a reputable publisher who may take on the risk for the chance at a juicy blockbuster.

If someone sues you for libel, it has to be untrue. If you are telling the truth, they have no case.


I recently grappled with this same thing : publishing a memoir that included the descriptions of many different people I worked with over the period of a decade.

One one edit, I specifically went through and took out stuff that was there for no other reason then to be mean.

On another edit - I changed the names and personal details about people - again and again and again. If the lady had long black hair, I made her have short blonde hair. If she were fat, I'd make her thin. If she had 2 kids I said she had 4. If she were an Indian, I said she was from England. Now - the events that happened - were all true and I stuck to the facts as I understood them - as I experienced them.


BTW - the book I wrote will be delivered to the casino I wrote the book about - tomorrow. They are selling it in their boutiques and gift shops.

Yup. Either an individual (or the person's heirs) or a corporation/company can do just that. It happens all the time.

Awhile back, I contacted my entertainment attorney about this very issue. Since our books are set in the "real world", I wanted to find out what issues were involved in mentioning real people or events in the media. It was a VERY long response, but here's the things he said that are the actual legal issues involved:

Hi Cathy, good to hear from you. As you probably expected, the question you raise touches on a number of issues, but I will try to give you a road map. From my reading of your e-mail, there are four areas in which you might incur liability for writing content in which you incorporate a character who is a person, famous or not, who is alive or deceased, and depict them either in events that actually occurred or in fictitious events. The four areas would be:

A. Invasion of privacy;
B. Defamation/slander;
C. Copyright infringement; and
D. Unauthorized use of name and likeness.

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Over the course of the next four pages, he expanded on what circumstances people could sue. I won't post it here, because I have no right to (being a private correspondence). But suffice it to say that if a person recognizes themself, there is indeed a good chance that not only could they sue, but they could WIN.

Your only recourse is if everything you say is TRUE, and that would have to be proved in court--which costs money to defend. Use caution unless you're willing to pay the price.

Good luck!

nicegrrl said:

Like, I want to talk about a drug dealer that used to work in biomedical waste in order to collect aborted fetuses and keep them in jars as decoration (villain). I dont really see how fiction can improve on that one, but the person would certainly recognize himself.

What is he going to do? Take me to court and sue me because he recognizes himself from the illegal actions of my fictional character?

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Yeah, I'm betting you could get away with that one. Blech. Bastard.

Just tread cautiously. If the tale is worth telling, you'll find away. But keep in the back of your mind that if people can find a way to cash in, or pinch their 15 minutes of fame (or notariety) on your efforts, they will.

Good luck and happy crafting.

A couple of quick tips:

1. Renaming characters etc will do you NO good at all if you do a single radio interview were you say "Oh - I based the events on the major University near me" - or mention it on a message board

If it is public knowledge who you REALLY meant, then it doesn't matter.

2. A MAJOR problem where authors get stuck is claiming motivations on the accused. You can say "They returned to the scene that night, and destroyed evidence before the police arrived" .. if it is true. You can NOT say "They went back to the scene that night to destroy evidence before the police arrived."

See the difference? One is a provable fact. The other attributes motive to them ('they did it for XX reason') which is fundamentally unprovable.

You can say "They paid woman who claimed they were raped out of their legal fund" if you can prove it is true.

You can NOT say "They set up the fund to pay women who they raped" - even if one person claims it is true, you'll find more who just say it is a general legal fund. The most you could probably say is that "XXX, who set up the fund for the University, stated that the purpose of the fund was to pay women who the students raped. YYY denied that the fund was for that purpose, and points out that XXX was never involved in the day-to-day running of the fund."

Even in your few brief statements, you've managed to violate this 'never attribute motive' rule more than once !!!!

What is he going to do? Take me to court and sue me because he recognizes himself from the illegal actions of my fictional character?

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No. He'll take you to court to sue you because he has suffered harm (say, to his reputation) by your publication of the claims. He'll also sue the publisher, who will have a lot more to lose.

Put it this way - do you have statutary declarations from witnesses etc for EVERY SINGLE CLAIM that you make? Just being 'general knowledge' or 'everyone knows that' isn't enough. At the very very least that is what the legal department of the publisher will insist on. At the very least.

At the very least, the hospital could easily get an injunction because you are claiming that the hospital/medical waste processor is violating rules, ethics etc - what is your proof?

It also brings up another aspect - if you do have evidence of these crimes, then the accused will always ask why you haven't handed over your evidence to the Police?

I am saying some bad things about people and mostly they deserve it

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So even at the start of the project, you know that not everything you say is deserved?

In other words, you KNOW that some of the harmful things you are saying are undeserved. (Ignoring exactly who is judge, jury & executioner on 'deserved')

You basically are admitting that there are some statements where you KNOW you don't have the 'truth' defense on your side. Being 'partly' true is worse than being entirely false.

If it is entirely false than there are no similarities that people can recognise.

You really need to rethink this, IMHO.

Mac
(PS: As always - get real legal advice if you want to pursue the project.)
(PPS: You also can't assume that "Newspaper A printed it and didn't get sued, so I won't get sued either." It doesn't work that way. There have been cases were they've only gone after the 3rd or 4th person to repeat the rumour.)
(PPPS: Even if the alleged drug dealer has made the claim himself, that doesn't make it true. Plenty of people have used the 'I was just telling tall tales when I was drunk. Any real researcher would get real evidence before relying on it' defense - and it really is plausible.)

nicegrrl said:

Well, what if I make up a name for the secret society, but still use their rituals (which they deny they even do). Like, they brand members after a certain amount of years. Can a real secret society sue me because my fictionalize society does something they claim they dont do? Doesnt that in effect prove they did it?

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Imagine I wrote a best selling novel about someone called 'niceygrrl', who posts on a message board called 'Absolutely Writers - Water Cooler'. I mention lots of true facts about you, and about 'Perksy' and 'Kathy C'.

Part of the novel is all about how 'niceygrrl' does obscene acts in her spare time.

Plenty of editors, writers and people here read the novel and recognise you immediately. They'll look at what I say, recognise various aspects that clearly indicate that I'm talking about you.

Then when they get to the bit about obscene acts in your spare time, they'll think "Well, the other bits Mac wrote about were true, so that bit must be as well."

All of a sudden, you find that no-one wants to publish your book.

When you sue me, because of the scurrilous lies, I claim "Can you sue me because my fictionalize character does something they you claim you dont do? Doesnt that in effect prove that you DO do obcene acts in your spare time?".

What would be your reply ?

I want to say that a board member conviced georgetown university to invest their endowment in a risky hedge fund in order to collect money for himself (really happened)

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NO!

It fails the 'attributing motive' test. As you point out, it is perfectly plausible that what you say 'really happened' didn't.

Oh, and I cant be sued for saying this stuff on a message board. Someone tried that once. Didnt even make it to court.

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Doesn't mean that they can't do it.

And, in fact, they can. It probably won't happen, though, mainly because you aren't claiming anything with credibility.

Mac

Let's put it this way, nicegrrl, you can WRITE anything you want, but whether or not a company would be willing to publish it is the issue. If you push it as fiction, then someone might sue you. If you publish it as non-fiction, they DEFINITELY will (look how many lawsuits are pending against James Frey!)

My best advice is to consult with a publishing attorney before you go any further (if your goal is indeed publication.) There are several agencies that offer free legal advice to aspiring authors. I'll try to find the names and post a link here.

nicegrrl said:

Can a real secret society sue me because my fictionalize society does something they claim they dont do? Doesnt that in effect prove they did it?

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Anybody can sue you, even if they don't have a legitimate claim. If you write it in such a way that people can guess the secret society's identity, they can sue you for saying they perform that ritual if they think they are harmed by the claim.

nicegrrl said:

I want to say that a board member conviced georgetown university to invest their endowment in a risky hedge fund in order to collect money for himself (really happened)- all of that is documented except the person that convinced the university to do this has the easy alibi of "I really thought it was a good investment (maybe he did)". Can I make up a university called "Johnstown University", a prestigious christian university in DC that is connected to many think tanks and politicians? Everyone would know it is GT, but if I dont say GT is it ok? You say it is not, but i dont know if that is fair.

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If people can recognize it's GT and recognize who the board member is, you bet they can sue you. If you don't have evidence that the motive of the board member was personal gain, he probably could sue you for libel.

nicegrrrl said:

Oh, and I cant be sued for saying this stuff on a message board. Someone tried that once. Didnt even make it to court.

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Did it not make it to court because the judge threw it out, or because there was a settlement? IANAL, but I'm pretty sure the specific circumstances determine the case, and unless you have a good knowledge of the law and the details of the other case, don't assume you are immune. As someone pointed out upthread, the best thing to do is to consult an attorney with expertise in libel law.

nicegrrl said:

Yeah, but he'd still have to admit to saying it and i still would claim its fiction. He wont get me on that one.

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If he can show that others would recognize him as the character, he can indeed "get you".

nicegrrl said:

How about if I diss institutions with general impressions. Brett Easton Elliot got away with that one. Like he would say " people thought Vassar girls are prudes" or "Dalton gils are stupid"- Can my characters present general opinions like "A girl who went from boarding school to Syracuse only cares about partying". It's an opinion of a fictional character presented as fact. The simpsons do this one in every episode, but it's pretty cruel because that is a real opinion.

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General statements of opinion like that are a lot different than writing a character who is a recognizable board member from a recognizable university doing something illegal.

I also meant to add that lots of authors use thinly fictionalized real towns and universities as their settings. The trick is that they don't write thinly disguised "exposes" of real events.

Ask yourself,

will they write a book about you?

Unless he was actually an IP (intellectual property) attorney, I'd still be very, very careful. Entertainment law is its own strange animal. Disclaimers are only a DEFENSE against suits, not a "get out of jail free" card.

Still, good luck.