From pagan to Christian?

I've gone kinda the othere way around from Christinaity to a more personalised religion.

Pagan and Christian beliefs can co-exist - I know a lot of Pagans, particularly wiccans, who are also Christian.

Similar to Buddhism, Paganism is much more focussed on a way of life that respects the world around you than it is about worshipping a deity.

When it comes to this subject I tend to choose my words carefully so as not to offend any one. I don't like the word religion. Spirituality is what it's all about. Religion is man-made. I'm not sure this is the place to debate such things?

ok bylineBree, I think we're working from different understandings of paganism - what you describe is what I would call agnostic or atheism. My understanding of paganism is that it is a belief system, albeit a rather broad term used to cover a number of slightly differing beliefs (in much the same way Christianity has many different branches and facets).

You might find this BBC resource useful:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/

My experience -- your mileage may vary -- I was very interested in the occult/New Age/spiritualism/channeling and psychic phenomena when I was a teen.

but my eclectic reading did me in. I read Harry Houdini's book "A Magician Among the Spirits" (I think that was the title) and he went through and showed how practititioners faked seances and other phenomena.

I was also reading a lot of SFF, including Andre (Mary Alice) Norton who seemed to use a lot of New Age ideas. Seemed like all the characters would reach inside for extra strength. I wondered what would happen if you tried to reach deep inside the mind and there wasn't anything left to draw on.

I was also reading C.S. Lewis, especially the Narnia books. Compared to them, all other fantasy realms seemed lacking.

So I was dissatisfied with my belief system -- it wasn't working for me and some of the foundational beliefs were shaken.

Went to college where my parents feared my older brother had joined a religious cult, joined him in worship, realized we were in a non-denominational Christian fellowship, with all the "church" trappings stripped away. We sang while sitting around on the floor while others played guitar and on Sunday nights had a pitch-in supper -- cost $1 if you had $1, or was free if you didn't have the money. I felt like a little light bulb went off over my head -- all I heard about Jesus but never assimilated came into sharp focus. I had an "Ah Ha!" moment, was baptized about six weeks later and have not looked back.

As I said, your mileage may vary. I was someone with a lot of questions answered by neither my New Age/occult interests nor by the established church.

Hope that helped ...
Ann

I read an interesting, personal account of a converstion from a Wiccan belief to a belief in Jesus Christ.

His name's John Gibson, and his testimony can be found in an anthology by the title of 'Surprised by Truth 2', edited by Patrick Madrid. "Wiccan, Work it Out" is his re-telling of his faith journey.

You can contact John Gibson (I would assume the account is still active)
at his hotmail.com address: johnkgibson is the prefix.

or snail mail works, too:

John Gibson
P.O Box 941 Downers Grove, IL. 60515

If you want some specifics from his testimony, I'm more than happy to provide them as they appear in the book.

Disagree

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quote=Cath]Pagan and Christian beliefs can co-exist - I know a lot of Pagans, particularly wiccans, who are also Christian.

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Strictly Biblically speaking---that is not possible--with Biblical christianity.


--james

It's obviously possible, since someone here has seen examples of it.

bylinebree said:

Sorry, but logically one cannot be a pagan and Christian at the same time. .

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I find that "logic" and "faith" have many areas where they don't intersect. One of those places is something called "synchretic religions", which in fact do meld aspects of (among other things) Christian and Pagan religions. Think in terms of Santeria, Vodoun, Candomble...or the various eclectic versions of Christopagan belief.

Now, personally, it makes my head explode. But I don't get to choose others' faith for them.

I think there are probably common elements in any conversion story-- the experience of going from a faith that didn't provide answers/belonging/a relationship with the Divine to one in which one feels a sense of "coming home". The problem is not necessarily that there was anything inherently wrong with the old religion, as a "rightness" with the new one. But it's a lot easier to describe negatives, sometimes, than positives.

I know two women who are both wiccan and both go to church-believe in one true god.

Wiccanism particularly is a very personal belief system. There are overarching guidelines about respecting nature and ones fellow man, but they are open to broad interpretation and do not preclude the belief that God exists.

I have never spoken to either specifically about their faith, but I found this article interesting: ReligiousTolerance.org it considers the differences and similarities between the two belief systems.

I have thought about this issue a lot since this thread started, and I know from experience that religious belief in the US is much stronger/stricter than it is in the United Kingdom. Both these women are British and possibly have a very liberal interpretation of the Christian faith - maybe something like Nashelle's God of the Universe interpretation.

Orson Scott Card had a very interesting article here about world building and religious beliefs, if memory serves. Wasn't that here? On the front page? I thought it was very interesting.

Ann

It would seem to be that being Christian and being Wiccan -- which is not monotheistic at all -- would be at odds with one another. How can you follow a god who claims to be "the one true god" when you're off busily worshipping other deities?

While you certainly can be Christian and practice Witchcraft, I think Christianity and Wicca are too much at odds with one another for it to be workable.

Then again, I've never been Christian, so this is my humble opinion only

http://christopagan.net/ Might be a good place to start, if anyone wants information about the belief(s).

My two cents, iterated

1. I'm sorry, bylinebree, but I have to correct one misapprension you have. In general, Pagans do not "worship nature or self." In general, they see Deity in nature and/or self, much as the phrase "namaste" means "the divine in me acknowledges and greets the divine in you." But that is different from thinking the rock, tree, or person is God.

(I understand that this is a hard topic to discuss between Pagans and Christians. It's to do with the very different ways we relate to Deity, and it isn't helped by the "one-true-wayism" aspect present in much of Christian thought.)

2. The phrase "in the Biblical sense" is as problematic as the statement "I believe what God says in the Bible, which is..." Even among Christians of the same denomination you will often find different interpretations of the text. Be very careful, bylinebree and James1611, not to sound like you're claiming that your interpretations of the Bible are the ones with God's stamp of approval on them. None of us get to make that claim.

3. If someone self-identifies as Christian and Pagan simultaneously, it is not your place or mine to tell them different. Unless and until that person starts trying to tell us what to believe, it is not our place to usurp their right to tell us who they are. We are each our own most privileged witness to our own hearts, souls, and relationships to Deity.

That said, the road of the synchretic Christian-and-Pagan-combined is a tough one. They tend to get rejected, or at least their very right to self-identify dismissed, by both communities. This thread here is a perfect example. I think that's a crying shame.

(Jenan Mac, thanks for the link!)

4. Be careful with published accounts of ex-Wiccans. Some of them are not reliable--some of them are agenda'd, and go out of their way to make it look like they barely escaped from a Satanic Cult[tm] with their lives. Before entirely believing what you read, try checking out Kerr Cuhulain's "Witch Hunts: Exposing the Lies" series. Kerr is a Wiccan police officer who has made it his life's work to educate his colleagues in how best to navigate the culture clash in the best interest of truth and fairness. (I do not see a mention of this John Gibson there, so I couldn't vouch for his account pro or con. However, when I see him described as "A former practitioner of the black arts," I get skeptical. And I'm not impressed with his apparent need to denegrate Wicca as not simply something that didn't fit him, but something the devil lured him into!)

5. I believe bylinebree was asking for personal statements from people who see themselves as having left a Pagan faith and joined a Christian one. The only evaluation of these personal accounts that is appropriate, I think, is for bylinebree to decide whether they belong in her article/book. Debating whether a Christopagan is allowed to call him/herself that, or whether the Christianity a Wiccan has converted to is "Biblical enough," seems outside the scope of the discussion--and downright rude, if you ask me.

There. A bit more than two cents, but inflation happens.

Signed,
A Wiccan who is still a Wiccan.

Excellent post, Nicole.

Purely as a theological point it must be noted that Christianity and Christians are inherently opposed to the ideals behind any other faith or religion …. Just as one cannot be Christian and a “Jew” (by virtue of religion not ethnicity ) one cannot be Wicca and Christian …… Certainly there will be many to claim that that IS precisely what they are , and may truly believe it to be so , but they are in direct and opposing contradiction to one another …… You worship the creator in Christianity not his Creation .
The bible warns us about interfaithism and even the worship of “saints” to great degree (although I am speaking from a Fundamentalist point of view AND trying to give a picture of what I feel she is looking for - I am not even expressing my personal beliefs necessarily , please bear with me) In fact , the basic story of the Nazarenes is one of bloodshed , torture and strife because they held firm to the belief in Monotheism or One GOD and failed to even remotely acknowledge the fact that there might be others OR worship nature - They believed at the cost of their lives …….
There is a book , I believe its called Drakes book of Martyrs but I could be mistaken …. You may want to google it . It tells story after story of Christians killed for their faith and one story struck me to my heart … A missionary in Africa was forced to watch each member of his family murdered because he would not even lie about his beliefs and the fact that he would not give homage to a tree (or something) I couldn’t understand why he just didn’t “pretend” for the life of his family ….. Such is Faith .
That is what fundamental Christianity feels will be a great part in the lead up to the battle of Armageddon. A world religion (interfaith) which will deceive humanity through basically giving the assumption that there are several paths to God…. Fundamentalist point to the rise in the Wicca faith (along with other Paganism) The parliament of world religions and the decline in morality in our country as going hand in hand ….And its easy to see how they might think so .
Wicca believes in “works” and “deeds” as to the persons ’goodness’ where as Christianity sees only Obediance to Christ (allowing murderers , rapist , etc. to “repent” at the end for free and clear salvation) as the persons ’goodness’ ……..
Wicca (even some churches today) believe sexuality to be a choice where as Christians see it as a sin …
Christians are fishers of men , and must convert non Christians to “Save their SOUL” and how could a practicing Wiccan do anything but “preach” to her coven if she was truly commanded ?
Anyhow , this Wicca practitioner who converts will be hit all at once by an energy (force) which tingles the skin makes her tongue ‘thick’ and brings tears to her eyes … Suddenly , as if a veil is lifted she sees the truth and feels ashamed (although encompassed with love by the holy spirit , which saddens her more) Its as if a void has been filled , and she realizes that the Mysticism she has been seeking , the truth , the knowledge has always been there and how blind she had willingly been . She sees through new eyes , with new vigor and truly feels re born and clean.
However , she will probably now want to share the truth with the world , and (seeing things through different eyes) she finds how steadfast the world holds to their ideals about mankind and his capabilities , science , etc . and now she is on the side of a battle which cannot be intellectually won … Her friends and family probably ’mock’ her . Everything she belived , everything she knew to be true she now sees as a great deception , a lie . She feels a bit lonely , a crisis of identity ….Salvation comes at a price .
She will hunger for the word and join a bible study/church group where 1 of 2 things will happen … She will see hypocrisy and thus “back slide” or she will see hypocrisy and be stronger with her personal relationship with god because of it .
I hope this helps….
AND I AM NOT TRYING TO DEBATE OR GIVE MY VIEWS >>>>ONLY TO INFORM AS I KNOW A BIT ABOUT MANY TYPES OF FAITH (not only christian)

bylinebree said:

Interesting. But wouldn't seeing Deity be intimately involved with worship? The very word means "divinity"..."god." And where one finds a god, one finds worship...else what is the point of identifying that characteristic?? (self, a tree, Jesus, the forces of the earth)

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A valid point, to some extent. However, one can also be capable of seeing the Divine in something and yet not worshipping it. For me, the act of honoring something is what's important -- there's a slight difference between that and worship, so I think a distinction must be made. For example, I worship the specific dieties of my path, but I honor (and respect) the sacred that I find in earth, self, nature, other people, etc.

I think Nicole was trying to point out that while one can see the Divine within many things, it is not the same as accepting them as diety. For example, a dear friend of mine (who happens to be a die hard Southern Baptist) recently commented that when her first grandchild smiled at her, it was "like seeing God's beauty all over again." She doesn't see the grandbaby as god, obviously, but sees the magic of the Divine within that experience.

I stumbled into this thread quite by accident. Unfortunately, I found some of what I expected, but also there is a degree of civility sorely lacking in many (most) other threads of this nature elsewhere.

I'm still trying to understand Ghost RYter's post, though.

As a long-standing pagan brought up in a southern Baptist household, I cannot help you with your premise. But should you seek to have another viewpoint on Christian -> Pagan, drop me a line .