Calling all experts (a riff on info-dumping)
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RedMolly:
06-16-2006, 08:42 PM
So when Puma mentioned being a geology expert, my interest was piqued.
Surely in such a diverse, well-educated group (flattery will get you everywhere), we must have a passel of experts--either formally educated or self-taught--on any number of subjects.
Would you deign to share with us the names of any books that you think cover the basics of your subject well enough that it would keep us from committing any world-building howlers?
I'd like to know more about...
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badducky:
06-16-2006, 09:25 PM
If you're looking for Africa, you can find some great stuff in American History, and hidden in World Literature.
"Confessions of St. Augustine", "Fram Calabar to Carter's Grove", "The Diligent", "Things Fall Apart", "The Egyptian Book of the Dead", "Love Songs of the New Kingdom".
Also, read the great Greek works (Timbuktu was the center of world education during the dark ages, and the African-Arabic World KNEW their Greek philosphy upside-down an sideways).
If you dig through the bibliographies and footnotes of the history books, whole worlds open up to you.
I especially wish to highlight "THE DILIGENT" because it is one of the most staggering history books I've ever read, and incredibly comprehensive. Horrifying, and meticulous. Brilliant.
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Medievalist:
06-16-2006, 09:45 PM
I think this is a great idea, but people might want to take a look here.
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sunandshadow:
06-16-2006, 10:03 PM
Hmm. I suppose I would consider myself an expert on mythology and genetics. For the genetics, I would recommend Larry Gonick's Cartoon Guide to Genetics:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006...Fencoding=UTF8
But I'm afraid I don't know of any comparable book for mythology.
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RedMolly:
06-16-2006, 10:15 PM
That's a great thread, Medievalist, thanks... guess I should venture further afield every so often!
I would, though, like to be able to put together a bibliography of all-purpose recommended books... and I'd also love to see what topics other people are looking for general knowledge on.
Sunandshadow, which cultures' mythologies are you most expert in? What do you think of Joseph Campbell? (Never read him... I'm sure it's chock-full of gross oversimplifications, but I've known several people who were fans... is there something else you'd recommend for an overview?)
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rugcat:
06-16-2006, 10:17 PM
Red Molly
For language, you might want to look at "The Story of Language" by Mario Pei.
It's probably out of date, and for all I know the ideas in it may have been revised by later linguists, but he was the standard in his time. It's very accessible--easy to read and full of interesting info about aspects of language.
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Medievalist:
06-16-2006, 10:35 PM
For language in general, David Crystal's The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language, and for English, David Crystal's The Cambridge Encyclopedia of English; these are interesting, accurate, heavily illustrated and well idexed books that examine language from a linguistic, philological and sociological pov.
I don't know of an affordable overall coverage of world mythologies; but Jaan Puhvel's Comparative Mythology is a readable survey of Indo-European mythologies and motifs.
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dragonet2:
06-16-2006, 10:44 PM
I know a lot about biology and natural history, if U. Kan. had given minors while I was doing my BS, I would have gotten a minor in biology (Field Natural History). I do my best to keep up in the reading because it's interesting. And so hugely fascinating.
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alaskamatt17:
06-16-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm a geology undergraduate. If you're interested in knowing about landforms and how they come to exist in certain places, the main fields you need to look into are geomorphology, plate tectonics, and volcanology.
There are really a lot of different processes involved in creating landforms, and some landforms can be built in different ways. One common mistake in fantasy is the idea of the lone volcano standing in the middle of a plain. While it can happen, it is very much a rarity. Most volcanoes exist in arcs along subduction zones (places where one tectonic plate is sliding under another one), some along transform faults, and a few over "hot spots" (where for some reason a pillar of superheated mantle causes magma to spill over onto the crust). The reason most volcanoes occur along subduction zones is that when the subducting tectonic plate reaches a certain depth, it melts and the felsic material (anything rich in silica, such as quartz, plagioclase, alkali feldspar ...) rises because it is less dense than the surrounding melt. The felsic "blebs" rise fast enough that they are still hot enough to melt through rock when they hit solid crustal material. Eventually a magma chamber will arise. When water exsolves from the solution, it creates a tremendous increase in volume, and the magma sort of bubbles up out of the ground.
As far as cliffs go, I haven't had a real emphasis in them. Not my specialty. I would suspect that they'd arise from aeolian (wind) processes or erosion via water. If there's hard bedrock surrounded by a layer of weaker minerals, wind and water will erode the weaker material, leaving the strong rock behind. Eventually when the broken down weak rock is carried away, the stronger base remains. Some cliffs are the result of seismic activity. Earthquakes can drop down one section of crust and raise up an adjacent region. It happened where I live in 1964, and it killed off a lot of sea life here because areas that were once submerged are now six feet above sea level.
I can't really recommend any cheap books. My textbooks from school are ridiculously expensive, and not exceptional anyway. Robert J. Sawyer is a good writer who puts a lot of scientific explanation into his books. You might try picking up some of his works. Wikipedia.org is a great website to do research. If you search up plate tectonics, volcanology, geomorphology, or really anything you'll probably find a decent article with links to other relevant articles as an added bonus.
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Puma:
06-17-2006, 06:42 AM
RedMolly - geology landforms. I can't recommend any one book but suggestions would be any Physical Geology textbook - there are undoubtedly some in second hand stores and probably on e-bay. Physical geology covers dunes, mountains, river floodplains, glaciers, etc. - everything that doesn't go into the historical geology (fossil) side. You also might want to check to see if National Geographic or Time/Life has a series of books on the subject and also check out the kids section of a good bookstore. I've seen some pretty good enrichment books in a couple older children's series.
Mythology - there was a series put out by Paul Hamlyn about 1969 that was outstanding with individual books on different areas of the world including the Middle East and Africa.
As someone up the line mentioned, the problem with older books is that some things may have been revised since the book was written. What I do if I think I may have seen something more recent is do a Google search to see if there is contradictory information that shows up. If there is, then I have to dig deeper. Puma
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sunandshadow:
06-17-2006, 11:37 AM
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RedMolly:
06-16-2006, 08:42 PM
So when Puma mentioned being a geology expert, my interest was piqued.
Surely in such a diverse, well-educated group (flattery will get you everywhere), we must have a passel of experts--either formally educated or self-taught--on any number of subjects.
Would you deign to share with us the names of any books that you think cover the basics of your subject well enough that it would keep us from committing any world-building howlers?
I'd like to know more about...
- geology, especially the development of landforms (where do cliffs occur, vs. gently sloping beaches, and why?)
- ecology, especially predator/prey population balance
- language development and diversity (Shweta's awesome thread has gotten me ruminating on this... frex, I really want to know how mutually unintelligible two population groups' languages could become after about seven hundred years' separation and one group's intermingling with a group that speaks a completely unrelated language)
- non-Western magical/shamanistic traditions, esp. those of the Middle East and North Africa
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badducky:
06-16-2006, 09:25 PM
If you're looking for Africa, you can find some great stuff in American History, and hidden in World Literature.
"Confessions of St. Augustine", "Fram Calabar to Carter's Grove", "The Diligent", "Things Fall Apart", "The Egyptian Book of the Dead", "Love Songs of the New Kingdom".
Also, read the great Greek works (Timbuktu was the center of world education during the dark ages, and the African-Arabic World KNEW their Greek philosphy upside-down an sideways).
If you dig through the bibliographies and footnotes of the history books, whole worlds open up to you.
I especially wish to highlight "THE DILIGENT" because it is one of the most staggering history books I've ever read, and incredibly comprehensive. Horrifying, and meticulous. Brilliant.
______________________________________________________
Medievalist:
06-16-2006, 09:45 PM
I think this is a great idea, but people might want to take a look here.
______________________________________________________
sunandshadow:
06-16-2006, 10:03 PM
Hmm. I suppose I would consider myself an expert on mythology and genetics. For the genetics, I would recommend Larry Gonick's Cartoon Guide to Genetics:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006...Fencoding=UTF8
But I'm afraid I don't know of any comparable book for mythology.
______________________________________________________
RedMolly:
06-16-2006, 10:15 PM
That's a great thread, Medievalist, thanks... guess I should venture further afield every so often!
I would, though, like to be able to put together a bibliography of all-purpose recommended books... and I'd also love to see what topics other people are looking for general knowledge on.
Sunandshadow, which cultures' mythologies are you most expert in? What do you think of Joseph Campbell? (Never read him... I'm sure it's chock-full of gross oversimplifications, but I've known several people who were fans... is there something else you'd recommend for an overview?)
______________________________________________________
rugcat:
06-16-2006, 10:17 PM
Red Molly
For language, you might want to look at "The Story of Language" by Mario Pei.
It's probably out of date, and for all I know the ideas in it may have been revised by later linguists, but he was the standard in his time. It's very accessible--easy to read and full of interesting info about aspects of language.
______________________________________________________
Medievalist:
06-16-2006, 10:35 PM
For language in general, David Crystal's The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language, and for English, David Crystal's The Cambridge Encyclopedia of English; these are interesting, accurate, heavily illustrated and well idexed books that examine language from a linguistic, philological and sociological pov.
I don't know of an affordable overall coverage of world mythologies; but Jaan Puhvel's Comparative Mythology is a readable survey of Indo-European mythologies and motifs.
______________________________________________________
dragonet2:
06-16-2006, 10:44 PM
I know a lot about biology and natural history, if U. Kan. had given minors while I was doing my BS, I would have gotten a minor in biology (Field Natural History). I do my best to keep up in the reading because it's interesting. And so hugely fascinating.
______________________________________________________
alaskamatt17:
06-16-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm a geology undergraduate. If you're interested in knowing about landforms and how they come to exist in certain places, the main fields you need to look into are geomorphology, plate tectonics, and volcanology.
There are really a lot of different processes involved in creating landforms, and some landforms can be built in different ways. One common mistake in fantasy is the idea of the lone volcano standing in the middle of a plain. While it can happen, it is very much a rarity. Most volcanoes exist in arcs along subduction zones (places where one tectonic plate is sliding under another one), some along transform faults, and a few over "hot spots" (where for some reason a pillar of superheated mantle causes magma to spill over onto the crust). The reason most volcanoes occur along subduction zones is that when the subducting tectonic plate reaches a certain depth, it melts and the felsic material (anything rich in silica, such as quartz, plagioclase, alkali feldspar ...) rises because it is less dense than the surrounding melt. The felsic "blebs" rise fast enough that they are still hot enough to melt through rock when they hit solid crustal material. Eventually a magma chamber will arise. When water exsolves from the solution, it creates a tremendous increase in volume, and the magma sort of bubbles up out of the ground.
As far as cliffs go, I haven't had a real emphasis in them. Not my specialty. I would suspect that they'd arise from aeolian (wind) processes or erosion via water. If there's hard bedrock surrounded by a layer of weaker minerals, wind and water will erode the weaker material, leaving the strong rock behind. Eventually when the broken down weak rock is carried away, the stronger base remains. Some cliffs are the result of seismic activity. Earthquakes can drop down one section of crust and raise up an adjacent region. It happened where I live in 1964, and it killed off a lot of sea life here because areas that were once submerged are now six feet above sea level.
I can't really recommend any cheap books. My textbooks from school are ridiculously expensive, and not exceptional anyway. Robert J. Sawyer is a good writer who puts a lot of scientific explanation into his books. You might try picking up some of his works. Wikipedia.org is a great website to do research. If you search up plate tectonics, volcanology, geomorphology, or really anything you'll probably find a decent article with links to other relevant articles as an added bonus.
______________________________________________________
Puma:
06-17-2006, 06:42 AM
RedMolly - geology landforms. I can't recommend any one book but suggestions would be any Physical Geology textbook - there are undoubtedly some in second hand stores and probably on e-bay. Physical geology covers dunes, mountains, river floodplains, glaciers, etc. - everything that doesn't go into the historical geology (fossil) side. You also might want to check to see if National Geographic or Time/Life has a series of books on the subject and also check out the kids section of a good bookstore. I've seen some pretty good enrichment books in a couple older children's series.
Mythology - there was a series put out by Paul Hamlyn about 1969 that was outstanding with individual books on different areas of the world including the Middle East and Africa.
As someone up the line mentioned, the problem with older books is that some things may have been revised since the book was written. What I do if I think I may have seen something more recent is do a Google search to see if there is contradictory information that shows up. If there is, then I have to dig deeper. Puma
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sunandshadow:
06-17-2006, 11:37 AM
RedMolly said:
