Who would have thunk? User NameRemember Me?Password
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/
Thread Tools
06-09-2006, 08:54 AM maestrowork vbmenu_register("postmenu_636169", true);
recruiting fresh firemen
Mod Squad Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UNKNOWN
Posts: 15,236
Who would have thunk?
Or is it "who would have thought"?
__________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson.
My novel, The Pacific Between (2006 IPPY Finalist), is now available: Click here. Visit my site and my blog
maestroworkView Public ProfileSend a private message to maestroworkVisit maestrowork's homepage!Find More Posts by maestrowork
06-09-2006, 09:33 AM smiley10000 vbmenu_register("postmenu_636253", true);
Board fanatic
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 101
Who would have thought.
'Thunk' is slang used when joking about something obvious you didn't know.
"Mike, the round peg does not fit into the square hole."
"Really, who would have thunk it?"
10000
smiley10000View Public ProfileSend a private message to smiley10000Find More Posts by smiley10000
06-09-2006, 10:06 AM September skies vbmenu_register("postmenu_636315", true);
Sleepless in Visalia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 2,578
Maybe I'm sheltered, but I had never heard "thunk" in my life.
__________________
September skiesView Public ProfileSend a private message to September skiesSend email to September skiesVisit September skies's homepage!Find More Posts by September skies
06-09-2006, 10:12 AM Phouka vbmenu_register("postmenu_636334", true);
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 66
Shouldn't it be 'Who'd a thunk it?' It's definitely slang, and rather sarcastic slang, at that.
__________________
To be a book-collector is to combine the worst characteristics of a dope fiend with those of a miser.--R. Davies
PhoukaView Public ProfileSend a private message to PhoukaVisit Phouka's homepage!Find More Posts by Phouka
06-09-2006, 05:54 PM Puma vbmenu_register("postmenu_637180", true);
Board fanatic
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: near Columbus Ohio
Posts: 187
Aw, come on now, are you all too young to remember -think thank thunk? Or am I the only one who went to grade school in the country back in the 50's and made up nonsensical rhymes on the playground?
(And not to confuse the issue, it's think thought thought) Puma
Puma</B>View Public ProfileSend a private message to Puma</B>Find More Posts by Puma</B>
06-09-2006, 09:48 PM Veniar vbmenu_register("postmenu_637585", true);
Lost for words
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 60
I've never really heard of the word "thunk" before. Maybe I've been away from America too long. I'm quite sure it's a nonstandard verb if you use it that way, but it sounds more like a noun. In my opinion, "Who would have thought it?" would sound better.
VeniarView Public ProfileSend a private message to VeniarFind More Posts by Veniar
06-10-2006, 02:44 PM Jamesaritchie vbmenu_register("postmenu_638479", true);
Board fanatic
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,456
thunk
Maybe it's regional? I've heard the word "thunk" a zillion times throughout Indiana and Kentucky. I've also found it in books on rare occasion, however.
JamesaritchieView Public ProfileSend a private message to JamesaritchieSend email to JamesaritchieFind More Posts by Jamesaritchie
06-10-2006, 03:14 PM Medievalist vbmenu_register("postmenu_638510", true);
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
It's a joke; it's based on a false understanding of the verb paradigm in drink drank drunk
S. v. thunk in the OED:
dial. and joc. pa. tense and pa. pple. of THINK v.2 Cf. THUNK n.1
1876 C. C. ROBINSON Dial. Mid-Yorks. p. xlii, Think..(Thuongk) The last form is less employed participially than in the past, in which tense it is of constant occurrence. 1887 Lantern (New Orleans) 15 Oct. 3/2 Who'd a thunk it? 1908 N. DUNCAN Every Man for Himself ii. 60 Leastwise, he thunk so, admittin' 'twas open t' argument. 1939 JOYCE Finnegans Wake 504, I then tuk my taken~place lying down, I thunk I told you. 1967 T. SAVAGE Power of Dog xiii. 240 Phil had most excellent use of the hides after all. Who'd a thunk it!
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
MedievalistView Public ProfileSend a private message to MedievalistSend email to MedievalistVisit Medievalist's homepage!Find More Posts by Medievalist
06-10-2006, 03:46 PM Patricia vbmenu_register("postmenu_638544", true);
Dawno-Moo-Sparkle.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 885
"Who wudda thunk it"? is slang in my part of California. Kind of slang for kidding tongue-in-cheek. (Sorry, September--maybe it's the company I keep!)
__________________
Truth from the voice of experience: PublishAmerica is a scam. Integrity is a word foreign to them. They hold their authors hostage in a useless and substandard royalty contract. No matter what you read on the net or hear to the contrary, PA is NOT a commercial publisher. They are a printer, and a poor one at that. They are considered a disgrace and laughing stock in the publishing world.
Patricia Johnston
http://www.freewebs.com/pwjnovel/
Links to Donate to AW Legal Fund here:
http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/aw/donate.html
PatriciaView Public ProfileSend a private message to PatriciaFind More Posts by Patricia
06-10-2006, 06:15 PM Patricia vbmenu_register("postmenu_638765", true);
Dawno-Moo-Sparkle.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 885
Oh, come on guys, don't let me be a thread killer for this "hot" topic.
__________________
Truth from the voice of experience: PublishAmerica is a scam. Integrity is a word foreign to them. They hold their authors hostage in a useless and substandard royalty contract. No matter what you read on the net or hear to the contrary, PA is NOT a commercial publisher. They are a printer, and a poor one at that. They are considered a disgrace and laughing stock in the publishing world.
Patricia Johnston
http://www.freewebs.com/pwjnovel/
Links to Donate to AW Legal Fund here:
http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/aw/donate.html
PatriciaView Public ProfileSend a private message to PatriciaFind More Posts by Patricia
06-11-2006, 01:19 PM Maryn vbmenu_register("postmenu_639971", true);
Bru-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-uce!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 1,297 miles on the Erie Canal
Posts: 3,219
My mom, who was a prolific reader and interested in language, told me "Who'd a thunk it?" was popularized in some comedy act in the 30s. Darned if I remember whose act.
Maryn, who's lost a lot of Mom's wisdom (without having much of her own)
__________________
"Is You Is or Is You Ain't My Baby?" --Louis Jordan
MarynView Public ProfileSend a private message to MarynFind More Posts by Maryn
06-11-2006, 01:21 PM maestrowork vbmenu_register("postmenu_639978", true);
recruiting fresh firemen
Mod Squad Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UNKNOWN
Posts: 15,236
No matter the original, it seems like the word has been included in dictionaries.
__________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson.
My novel, The Pacific Between (2006 IPPY Finalist), is now available: Click here. Visit my site and my blog
maestroworkView Public ProfileSend a private message to maestroworkVisit maestrowork's homepage!Find More Posts by maestrowork
06-11-2006, 02:47 PM TeddyG vbmenu_register("postmenu_640130", true);
Really Has 99,999 Posts
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 550
Who Would Have Thunk?
Who would have thunk
That when he got into such a funk
His legs took him to the bar to go get drunk
Then when the beer covered him and they told him he stunk
He went down to to the lake to take a cold dunk
But the bottom covered his feet with goo and gunk
Stinking and dirty not daring to return home - he went to a friend to lay down and bunk
Though the neighbors all wanted to know who was this smelly, dirty punk
He rose in a few hours and began to make his way home through streets still full of yesterday's junk
Arriving on his doorstep full of remorse, his wife just kissed him and asked "How is my hunk?"
And so he pondered and wondered
Who would have thunk?
__________________
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main..." (John Donne)
TeddyGView Public ProfileSend a private message to TeddyGSend email to TeddyGVisit TeddyG's homepage!Find More Posts by TeddyG
06-11-2006, 03:06 PM Medievalist vbmenu_register("postmenu_640147", true);
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrowork
No matter the original, it seems like the word has been included in dictionaries.
The inclusion of a word in a dictionary doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, particlarly when the dictionary is the OED, and dictionaries who sub-license the OED.
The fact that it's based on an O.E. word, and that there are no attestations before the 1800s indicates that it's a neologism; the actual examples further indicated that it's humorous in normal use.
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
MedievalistView Public ProfileSend a private message to MedievalistSend email to MedievalistVisit Medievalist's homepage!Find More Posts by Medievalist
06-11-2006, 04:51 PM BardSkye vbmenu_register("postmenu_640266", true);
Grace Under Pressure
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 172
It's also a sound-effect:
Can you hear it? "(*&$* thunk!)
__________________
Bard Skye
"All bards are a little mad."
Rejection pledge: 3/14, 1 sale
www.dragons-hoard.com
BardSkyeView Public ProfileSend a private message to BardSkyeSend email to BardSkyeVisit BardSkye's homepage!Find More Posts by BardSkye
06-11-2006, 04:56 PM Jamesaritchie vbmenu_register("postmenu_640277", true);
Board fanatic
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medievalist
The inclusion of a word in a dictionary doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, particlarly when the dictionary is the OED, and dictionaries who sub-license the OED.
The fact that it's based on an O.E. word, and that there are no attestations before the 1800s indicates that it's a neologism; the actual examples further indicated that it's humorous in normal use.
I place an awful lot of stock in the OED. I think it's far and away the best source there is, and it's always wise to listen to what it says. That said, the only way I've ever heard "thunk" used was as humor, or even more often, in surprise. I don't think I've ever heard it used as sarcasm.
JamesaritchieView Public ProfileSend a private message to JamesaritchieSend email to JamesaritchieFind More Posts by Jamesaritchie
06-11-2006, 05:01 PM reph vbmenu_register("postmenu_640286", true);
Dances with Words
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chair
Posts: 4,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesaritchie
...the only way I've ever heard "thunk" used was as humor, or even more often, in surprise. I don't think I've ever heard it used as sarcasm.
"Thunk" works well for self-deprecating humor because it's incorrect. A newly popular form for saying the same thing sarcastically is "Who knew?"
rephView Public ProfileSend a private message to rephFind More Posts by reph
06-11-2006, 05:09 PM Medievalist vbmenu_register("postmenu_640296", true);
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
I am exceedingly fond of the OED as well. But the OED is an historical dictionary, with the purpose of recording the use of every word in the English language from 600 to today. It's an excellent source for historical purposes, though even then it needs to be used carefully.
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
MedievalistView Public ProfileSend a private message to MedievalistSend email to MedievalistVisit Medievalist's homepage!Find More Posts by Medievalist
06-11-2006, 05:09 PM Patricia vbmenu_register("postmenu_640297", true);
Dawno-Moo-Sparkle.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 885
We do love to massacre the English language.
__________________
Truth from the voice of experience: PublishAmerica is a scam. Integrity is a word foreign to them. They hold their authors hostage in a useless and substandard royalty contract. No matter what you read on the net or hear to the contrary, PA is NOT a commercial publisher. They are a printer, and a poor one at that. They are considered a disgrace and laughing stock in the publishing world.
Patricia Johnston
http://www.freewebs.com/pwjnovel/
Links to Donate to AW Legal Fund here:
http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/aw/donate.html
PatriciaView Public ProfileSend a private message to PatriciaFind More Posts by Patricia
06-12-2006, 12:39 PM smiley10000 vbmenu_register("postmenu_641804", true);
Board fanatic
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medievalist
The inclusion of a word in a dictionary doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, particlarly when the dictionary is the OED, and dictionaries who sub-license the OED.
The fact that it's based on an O.E. word, and that there are no attestations before the 1800s indicates that it's a neologism; the actual examples further indicated that it's humorous in normal use.
Languages that are spoken are like living, breathing organisms. They grow and change. They evolve along with the society that uses it.
Just because a word did not exist before the 1800s doesn't mean it's not valid. No one used the words "email" and "electronic" in those days either. Are you trying to tell us they aren't valid either?
That being said, you have to be careful about looking at context before using a word. Something like "thunk" that is slang and meant for humour would not go overwell in a scientific paper.
The OED is an excellent resource and inclusion of words in a dictionary means an awful lot! It means that the word has (at least some level) of universal recognition and has been accepted into our language.
10000
smiley10000View Public ProfileSend a private message to smiley10000Find More Posts by smiley10000
06-12-2006, 01:45 PM Medievalist vbmenu_register("postmenu_641915", true);
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley10000
Just because a word did not exist before the 1800s doesn't mean it's not valid. No one used the words "email" and "electronic" in those days either. Are you trying to tell us they aren't valid either?
That being said, you have to be careful about looking at context before using a word. Something like "thunk" that is slang and meant for humour would not go overwell in a scientific paper.
The OED is an excellent resource and inclusion of words in a dictionary means an awful lot! It means that the word has (at least some level) of universal recognition and has been accepted into our language.
10000
1. I did not say it wasn't valid; you won't hear me say that about a word, ever.
2. I'm a contributor to both the MED and the OED. I'm pretty cognizant about what it means for a lemma to be included in a dictionary.
3. I worked as an freelance editor and parser for microlytics for three years; we created and analyzed corpora for dictionaries. Trust me, I know how dictionaries are made.
4. It only takes three attestations to get a word listed in the OED; inclusion only means that the word was used in print; it doesn't mean that the word is universally recognized at all or even that it's widely attested. The OED is trying to record every single word, in the history of the language; including those from obscure dialects and slang.
5. The OED is an excellent historical resource, if you know what you're doing, and if you're familiar enough with language to know how to cross check; it really is riddled with errors, errors that are being found and corrected as quickly as possible, but given the way it was compiled initially this is laborious, difficult and time consuming. Many of the paper slips are now too fragile to be handled at all.
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
MedievalistView Public ProfileSend a private message to MedievalistSend email to MedievalistVisit Medievalist's homepage!Find More Posts by Medievalist
06-13-2006, 05:35 AM smiley10000 vbmenu_register("postmenu_643302", true);
Board fanatic
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 101
I seemed to have misunderstood you. I am sorry.
I do, however, still hold the opinion that inclusion in a dictionary is a sign of use. Three examples from three different authors on three different occasions is a strong reason to include a word. It shows that the word has some level of staying power. (Now if the last use was in 1796... But that is why you have to carefully examine what you are reading...)
10000
smiley10000View Public ProfileSend a private message to smiley10000Find More Posts by smiley10000
06-13-2006, 05:20 PM Jamesaritchie vbmenu_register("postmenu_644532", true);
Board fanatic
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medievalist
1. I did not say it wasn't valid; you won't hear me say that about a word, ever.
2. I'm a contributor to both the MED and the OED. I'm pretty cognizant about what it means for a lemma to be included in a dictionary.
3. I worked as an freelance editor and parser for microlytics for three years; we created and analyzed corpora for dictionaries. Trust me, I know how dictionaries are made.
4. It only takes three attestations to get a word listed in the OED; inclusion only means that the word was used in print; it doesn't mean that the word is universally recognized at all or even that it's widely attested. The OED is trying to record every single word, in the history of the language; including those from obscure dialects and slang.
5. The OED is an excellent historical resource, if you know what you're doing, and if you're familiar enough with language to know how to cross check; it really is riddled with errors, errors that are being found and corrected as quickly as possible, but given the way it was compiled initially this is laborious, difficult and time consuming. Many of the paper slips are now too fragile to be handled at all.
It's still the best out there, by far, and verifying what any source says is what a good writer does as a matter of habit.
And they don't actually try to record every single word. Many are left out intentionally, particularly in the internet age. Some have been left out that have hundreds of attestations in the most recent update.
JamesaritchieView Public ProfileSend a private message to JamesaritchieSend email to JamesaritchieFind More Posts by Jamesaritchie
06-13-2006, 05:47 PM jen.nifer vbmenu_register("postmenu_644579", true);
To Do: Write!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 864
Oh my god, that word is in dictionaries?
__________________
JenniferSando.com
jen.niferView Public ProfileSend a private message to jen.niferSend email to jen.niferVisit jen.nifer's homepage!Find More Posts by jen.nifer
06-13-2006, 06:31 PM Medievalist vbmenu_register("postmenu_644663", true);
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesaritchie
It's still the best out there, by far, and verifying what any source says is what a good writer does as a matter of habit.
And they don't actually try to record every single word. Many are left out intentionally, particularly in the internet age. Some have been left out that have hundreds of attestations in the most recent update.
Yes, they do try to record every word; the words that become lemmas are a different story. Current contributors add to a database, rather than fill out the slips the way we used to, but the goal is still the same; to record every word with sufficient attestations that meet the board's requirements, and then, from that corpus, determine which words will become lemmas.
This is the same practice that has been followed since shortly before Tolkien was an editor; it's just moved to a database.
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
MedievalistView Public ProfileSend a private message to MedievalistSend email to MedievalistVisit Medievalist's homepage!Find More Posts by Medievalist
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/
Thread Tools
recruiting fresh firemen
Mod Squad Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UNKNOWN
Posts: 15,236
Who would have thunk?
Or is it "who would have thought"?
__________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson.
My novel, The Pacific Between (2006 IPPY Finalist), is now available: Click here. Visit my site and my blog
Board fanatic
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 101
Who would have thought.
'Thunk' is slang used when joking about something obvious you didn't know.
"Mike, the round peg does not fit into the square hole."
"Really, who would have thunk it?"
10000
Sleepless in Visalia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 2,578
Maybe I'm sheltered, but I had never heard "thunk" in my life.
__________________
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 66
Shouldn't it be 'Who'd a thunk it?' It's definitely slang, and rather sarcastic slang, at that.
__________________
To be a book-collector is to combine the worst characteristics of a dope fiend with those of a miser.--R. Davies
Board fanatic
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: near Columbus Ohio
Posts: 187
Aw, come on now, are you all too young to remember -think thank thunk? Or am I the only one who went to grade school in the country back in the 50's and made up nonsensical rhymes on the playground?
(And not to confuse the issue, it's think thought thought) Puma
Lost for words
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 60
I've never really heard of the word "thunk" before. Maybe I've been away from America too long. I'm quite sure it's a nonstandard verb if you use it that way, but it sounds more like a noun. In my opinion, "Who would have thought it?" would sound better.
Board fanatic
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,456
thunk
Maybe it's regional? I've heard the word "thunk" a zillion times throughout Indiana and Kentucky. I've also found it in books on rare occasion, however.
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
It's a joke; it's based on a false understanding of the verb paradigm in drink drank drunk
S. v. thunk in the OED:
dial. and joc. pa. tense and pa. pple. of THINK v.2 Cf. THUNK n.1
1876 C. C. ROBINSON Dial. Mid-Yorks. p. xlii, Think..(Thuongk) The last form is less employed participially than in the past, in which tense it is of constant occurrence. 1887 Lantern (New Orleans) 15 Oct. 3/2 Who'd a thunk it? 1908 N. DUNCAN Every Man for Himself ii. 60 Leastwise, he thunk so, admittin' 'twas open t' argument. 1939 JOYCE Finnegans Wake 504, I then tuk my taken~place lying down, I thunk I told you. 1967 T. SAVAGE Power of Dog xiii. 240 Phil had most excellent use of the hides after all. Who'd a thunk it!
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
Dawno-Moo-Sparkle.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 885
"Who wudda thunk it"? is slang in my part of California. Kind of slang for kidding tongue-in-cheek. (Sorry, September--maybe it's the company I keep!)
__________________
Truth from the voice of experience: PublishAmerica is a scam. Integrity is a word foreign to them. They hold their authors hostage in a useless and substandard royalty contract. No matter what you read on the net or hear to the contrary, PA is NOT a commercial publisher. They are a printer, and a poor one at that. They are considered a disgrace and laughing stock in the publishing world.
Patricia Johnston
http://www.freewebs.com/pwjnovel/
Links to Donate to AW Legal Fund here:
http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/aw/donate.html
Dawno-Moo-Sparkle.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 885
Oh, come on guys, don't let me be a thread killer for this "hot" topic.
__________________
Truth from the voice of experience: PublishAmerica is a scam. Integrity is a word foreign to them. They hold their authors hostage in a useless and substandard royalty contract. No matter what you read on the net or hear to the contrary, PA is NOT a commercial publisher. They are a printer, and a poor one at that. They are considered a disgrace and laughing stock in the publishing world.
Patricia Johnston
http://www.freewebs.com/pwjnovel/
Links to Donate to AW Legal Fund here:
http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/aw/donate.html
Bru-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-uce!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 1,297 miles on the Erie Canal
Posts: 3,219
My mom, who was a prolific reader and interested in language, told me "Who'd a thunk it?" was popularized in some comedy act in the 30s. Darned if I remember whose act.
Maryn, who's lost a lot of Mom's wisdom (without having much of her own)
__________________
"Is You Is or Is You Ain't My Baby?" --Louis Jordan
recruiting fresh firemen
Mod Squad Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UNKNOWN
Posts: 15,236
No matter the original, it seems like the word has been included in dictionaries.
__________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. -- Marianne Williamson.
My novel, The Pacific Between (2006 IPPY Finalist), is now available: Click here. Visit my site and my blog
Really Has 99,999 Posts
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 550
Who Would Have Thunk?
Who would have thunk
That when he got into such a funk
His legs took him to the bar to go get drunk
Then when the beer covered him and they told him he stunk
He went down to to the lake to take a cold dunk
But the bottom covered his feet with goo and gunk
Stinking and dirty not daring to return home - he went to a friend to lay down and bunk
Though the neighbors all wanted to know who was this smelly, dirty punk
He rose in a few hours and began to make his way home through streets still full of yesterday's junk
Arriving on his doorstep full of remorse, his wife just kissed him and asked "How is my hunk?"
And so he pondered and wondered
Who would have thunk?
__________________
"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main..." (John Donne)
Click Here To Visit Teddy's Web Site On Writing
Or: Better Yet - Visit my Blog - "Cobwebs of the Mind" (OMG he has a blog!!!!!!)
For Writers:
JewishPedia - Striving To Forge A Comprehensive On-Line Jewish Encyclopedia in Wiki Format
Virgin Earth Article Submissions An Article Submission Directory
Or: Better Yet - Visit my Blog - "Cobwebs of the Mind" (OMG he has a blog!!!!!!)
For Writers:
JewishPedia - Striving To Forge A Comprehensive On-Line Jewish Encyclopedia in Wiki Format
Virgin Earth Article Submissions An Article Submission Directory
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrowork
No matter the original, it seems like the word has been included in dictionaries.
The inclusion of a word in a dictionary doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, particlarly when the dictionary is the OED, and dictionaries who sub-license the OED.
The fact that it's based on an O.E. word, and that there are no attestations before the 1800s indicates that it's a neologism; the actual examples further indicated that it's humorous in normal use.
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
Grace Under Pressure
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 172
It's also a sound-effect:
Can you hear it? "(*&$* thunk!)
__________________
Bard Skye
"All bards are a little mad."
Rejection pledge: 3/14, 1 sale
www.dragons-hoard.com
Board fanatic
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medievalist
The inclusion of a word in a dictionary doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, particlarly when the dictionary is the OED, and dictionaries who sub-license the OED.
The fact that it's based on an O.E. word, and that there are no attestations before the 1800s indicates that it's a neologism; the actual examples further indicated that it's humorous in normal use.
I place an awful lot of stock in the OED. I think it's far and away the best source there is, and it's always wise to listen to what it says. That said, the only way I've ever heard "thunk" used was as humor, or even more often, in surprise. I don't think I've ever heard it used as sarcasm.
Dances with Words
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chair
Posts: 4,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesaritchie
...the only way I've ever heard "thunk" used was as humor, or even more often, in surprise. I don't think I've ever heard it used as sarcasm.
"Thunk" works well for self-deprecating humor because it's incorrect. A newly popular form for saying the same thing sarcastically is "Who knew?"
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
I am exceedingly fond of the OED as well. But the OED is an historical dictionary, with the purpose of recording the use of every word in the English language from 600 to today. It's an excellent source for historical purposes, though even then it needs to be used carefully.
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
Dawno-Moo-Sparkle.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 885
We do love to massacre the English language.
__________________
Truth from the voice of experience: PublishAmerica is a scam. Integrity is a word foreign to them. They hold their authors hostage in a useless and substandard royalty contract. No matter what you read on the net or hear to the contrary, PA is NOT a commercial publisher. They are a printer, and a poor one at that. They are considered a disgrace and laughing stock in the publishing world.
Patricia Johnston
http://www.freewebs.com/pwjnovel/
Links to Donate to AW Legal Fund here:
http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/aw/donate.html
Board fanatic
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medievalist
The inclusion of a word in a dictionary doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, particlarly when the dictionary is the OED, and dictionaries who sub-license the OED.
The fact that it's based on an O.E. word, and that there are no attestations before the 1800s indicates that it's a neologism; the actual examples further indicated that it's humorous in normal use.
Languages that are spoken are like living, breathing organisms. They grow and change. They evolve along with the society that uses it.
Just because a word did not exist before the 1800s doesn't mean it's not valid. No one used the words "email" and "electronic" in those days either. Are you trying to tell us they aren't valid either?
That being said, you have to be careful about looking at context before using a word. Something like "thunk" that is slang and meant for humour would not go overwell in a scientific paper.
The OED is an excellent resource and inclusion of words in a dictionary means an awful lot! It means that the word has (at least some level) of universal recognition and has been accepted into our language.
10000
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley10000
Just because a word did not exist before the 1800s doesn't mean it's not valid. No one used the words "email" and "electronic" in those days either. Are you trying to tell us they aren't valid either?
That being said, you have to be careful about looking at context before using a word. Something like "thunk" that is slang and meant for humour would not go overwell in a scientific paper.
The OED is an excellent resource and inclusion of words in a dictionary means an awful lot! It means that the word has (at least some level) of universal recognition and has been accepted into our language.
100001. I did not say it wasn't valid; you won't hear me say that about a word, ever.
2. I'm a contributor to both the MED and the OED. I'm pretty cognizant about what it means for a lemma to be included in a dictionary.
3. I worked as an freelance editor and parser for microlytics for three years; we created and analyzed corpora for dictionaries. Trust me, I know how dictionaries are made.
4. It only takes three attestations to get a word listed in the OED; inclusion only means that the word was used in print; it doesn't mean that the word is universally recognized at all or even that it's widely attested. The OED is trying to record every single word, in the history of the language; including those from obscure dialects and slang.
5. The OED is an excellent historical resource, if you know what you're doing, and if you're familiar enough with language to know how to cross check; it really is riddled with errors, errors that are being found and corrected as quickly as possible, but given the way it was compiled initially this is laborious, difficult and time consuming. Many of the paper slips are now too fragile to be handled at all.
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
Board fanatic
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 101
I seemed to have misunderstood you. I am sorry.
I do, however, still hold the opinion that inclusion in a dictionary is a sign of use. Three examples from three different authors on three different occasions is a strong reason to include a word. It shows that the word has some level of staying power. (Now if the last use was in 1796... But that is why you have to carefully examine what you are reading...)
10000
Board fanatic
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medievalist
1. I did not say it wasn't valid; you won't hear me say that about a word, ever.
2. I'm a contributor to both the MED and the OED. I'm pretty cognizant about what it means for a lemma to be included in a dictionary.
3. I worked as an freelance editor and parser for microlytics for three years; we created and analyzed corpora for dictionaries. Trust me, I know how dictionaries are made.
4. It only takes three attestations to get a word listed in the OED; inclusion only means that the word was used in print; it doesn't mean that the word is universally recognized at all or even that it's widely attested. The OED is trying to record every single word, in the history of the language; including those from obscure dialects and slang.
5. The OED is an excellent historical resource, if you know what you're doing, and if you're familiar enough with language to know how to cross check; it really is riddled with errors, errors that are being found and corrected as quickly as possible, but given the way it was compiled initially this is laborious, difficult and time consuming. Many of the paper slips are now too fragile to be handled at all.
It's still the best out there, by far, and verifying what any source says is what a good writer does as a matter of habit.
And they don't actually try to record every single word. Many are left out intentionally, particularly in the internet age. Some have been left out that have hundreds of attestations in the most recent update.
To Do: Write!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 864
Oh my god, that word is in dictionaries?
__________________
JenniferSando.com
Dawnolite Bovine Admiration
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: State of Decay
Posts: 1,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesaritchie
It's still the best out there, by far, and verifying what any source says is what a good writer does as a matter of habit.
And they don't actually try to record every single word. Many are left out intentionally, particularly in the internet age. Some have been left out that have hundreds of attestations in the most recent update.
Yes, they do try to record every word; the words that become lemmas are a different story. Current contributors add to a database, rather than fill out the slips the way we used to, but the goal is still the same; to record every word with sufficient attestations that meet the board's requirements, and then, from that corpus, determine which words will become lemmas.
This is the same practice that has been followed since shortly before Tolkien was an editor; it's just moved to a database.
__________________
Lisa L. Spangenberg | Digital Medievalist
Please Help Jenna | Donate to Absolute Write
My opinions are my own.| Who else would want them?
