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Shadow555
07-16-2019, 12:25 AM
My story is set in the future I need advice on what are the most likely ethnic backgrounds and races to increase in certain countries and if there was a huge world War that broke out, we're would certain countries look to invade.

Like if Russia was to want to take over certain territory, where would they most likely try to occupy? Most of Eastern Europe? Central Asia? Southeast Asia? Thailand? Vietnam?

Where would China and North Korea try to take over or increase their military bases?

What about the US? If they were to increase military bases. Would they try to take the Middle East? Most of Mexico and Canada? Any of Southeast Asia?

What are some of the most common races and ethnicities in France besides French, Europeans and whites? In the future what races and ethnicities are likely to increase more in France?

Thank you.

PiaSophia
07-16-2019, 02:29 AM
I don't know if this helps, but use your imagination! Look back in history, what countries did they invade in the past, was it successful? If so, would it be likely they would try and invade the same countries again? Or maybe something similar? And look at things happening in the world today. I think it would be more likely for the US to try to take the Middle East, for example, rather than Canada or SE-Asia. But I'm judging that by (conspiracy) theories going around in the present day. Heck, maybe the Middle East would invade the US for that matter.

I think in fiction (as I assume your set-in-the-future-story to be) nothing is impossible, as long as you believe in it yourself and you can convince your readers why it would be so.

Chris P
07-16-2019, 05:39 AM
I've not read it, but my wife read Prisoners of Geography by Tim Marshall. It explains human conflicts by the aggressor countries striving for access to particular resources. The only example that I recall clearly is Russia's conflict with Ukraine being about access to the warm-water (and therefore longer season) ports of the Black Sea and therefore Mediterranean and Atlantic. Other examples I can think of are Ethiopia and Eritrea and Djibouti over access to the Red Sea, Nazi Germany's search for lebensraum (room to live) for agriculture and industry in Poland, Russia and France, Soviet interest in Eastern and Southern Africa for Indian Ocean influence, and the US's interest in Mideastern oil.

As mentioned above, look at what a country might want, and who might have it they can take it from, either by playing nice or by force. Who has fresh water? Who has good farmland? Who has a seaport? Who has coal, iron and petroleum? Shoot, who has molybdenum, tungsten and cobalt?

Snitchcat
07-16-2019, 05:56 AM
The first territory China would claim in the future is Taiwan. And that's a when, not if.

Roxxsmom
07-16-2019, 06:10 AM
I think it's highly likely climate change will be driving much, if not most, of this in upcoming decades and centuries.

While no one has a crystal ball re the exact effects climate change will have on a given geographic location or nation, there are no shortage of general predictions. For instance, desert zones will likely move north, sea levels will rise, floods, droughts, and hurricanes will become worse in some places. I'd do some reading up on various projections, as they will cause profound changes in where people can live, where people can grow food, which diseases afflict people and domestic animals, and on the health of the ecosystems.

Looking at projections of places likely to be hit first and hardest by climate change may give you an idea of the direction and nature of refugee migrations and emigration/immigration.

This is going to cause a lot of social upheaval and migrations of people both within large countries (like the US--think away from currently popular coastal areas and from places prone to droughts, floods, wildfires and extreme heat) and between countries too.

Would the US start to covet farmland up in Canada when farmland in places like the Midwest and the Central Valley of CA turn to desert? What happens to the flow of refugees and international relations that are already strained between some countries if there is widespread famine, disease, floods and so on?

Ichabod
07-16-2019, 06:18 AM
A good source is HG Wells Outline of Historyhe talks about the Anglo Saxon movement and shows how other countries were overrun.
When you look at history, you start to realize the countries that were in power a little over a hundred years ago are nothing now. I think of the Ottoman Empire, Japan and Germany are no longer the big dog on the porch.

SAWeiner
07-16-2019, 06:19 AM
A lot of what has happened people didn't see coming beforehand. People simply didn't expect the Berlin Wall to come down without military action or planes to fly into the World Trade Center. Do some research on countries' resources and historical rivalries and objectives, but then, as another here has said, just use your imagination. What you write might be more likely to come true than what any expert predicts.

I meanwhile want to mention that the Israeli-Arab conflict has been around for decades and will likely persist.. I personally feel Arab Muslims have a significant desire to come together into one powerful nation just as Italy and Germany merged from smaller entities in the 19th century. Additionally, Russia has shown interest in taking back areas it formerly ruled--parts of Ukraine, Georgia (the country, not the US state), etc

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 08:47 AM
I've not read it, but my wife read Prisoners of Geography by Tim Marshall.

I'll have to read this now.


The only example that I recall clearly is Russia's conflict with Ukraine being about access to the warm-water (and therefore longer season) ports of the Black Sea and therefore Mediterranean and Atlantic. Other examples I can think of are Ethiopia and Eritrea and Djibouti over access to the Red Sea, Nazi Germany's search for lebensraum (room to live) for agriculture and industry in Poland, Russia and France, Soviet interest in Eastern and Southern Africa for Indian Ocean influence, and the US's interest in Mideastern oil.

As mentioned above, look at what a country might want, and who might have it they can take it from, either by playing nice or by force. Who has fresh water? Who has good farmland? Who has a seaport? Who has coal, iron and petroleum? Shoot, who has molybdenum, tungsten and cobalt?

These should be some good ideas for me to look into. And a lot of it would have to do with fresh water, agriculture and many resources and if it's the future maybe stolen identities to easily rob them form their information, their lives and such?

And sure China would go after Taiwan but what about Nepal and Tibet?

- - - Updated - - -


I don't know if this helps, but use your imagination! Look back in history, what countries did they invade in the past, was it successful? If so, would it be likely they would try and invade the same countries again? Or maybe something similar? And look at things happening in the world today.

Guess I got a lot of researching to do :) but I can pretty much relate to what's going on now right?


I'm not a historical buff, but from what I've seen from the past, they always start with surrounding countries and expand out that way (ex: Genghis Khan). Makes much more sense to have resources closer, even with today's global capabilities, and it's easier to control when you're close (ex: Japan's control of Taiwan and also the Nazis' control of Europe during the Holocaust). As for specific countries, look at past wars. And we're not talking about wars fought on principle, like the US and the Middle East, or religion, but for land.

But with the technology of US they would go further than surrounding countries than Genghis Khan did? Or same principal applies? Maybe I could start with the US having wars in their own country first like a Civil War? Right wing extreme terrorist groups and such against other groups? Or is that too much?

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 08:49 AM
And would France still likely have a Vietnamese and SE-Asian population? Or was that more during the cold war time when many Vietnamese went over to France? Is there still a huge population of Vietnamese French their today?

Helix
07-16-2019, 09:03 AM
You might want to read up on the current government structure in Tibet.

MinaJane
07-16-2019, 12:25 PM
And would France still likely have a Vietnamese and SE-Asian population? Or was that more during the cold war time when many Vietnamese went over to France? Is there still a huge population of Vietnamese French their today?

Hi! French opinion, here (not that I'm an expert on this subject). I think most Vietnamese immigrants sought asylum and remained in the country, and it mostly stopped in the 90s. Depending on how far in the future your story is set, it's unlikely there'd still be a "strictly Vietnamese" population.


What are some of the most common races and ethnicities in France besides French, Europeans and whites? In the future what races and ethnicities are likely to increase more in France?

In the current context, most asylum seekers come from the Middle East and Africa, by the Mediterranean Sea. That will probably continue, whether they seek asylum for political or environmental reasons (or both) in the future.


May I also throw in there the possibility that Russia would want to invade Western Europe, with a little support from the US on the other side, to crush the other world leading countries like France, UK, Germany,... :Shrug:

Snitchcat
07-16-2019, 01:38 PM
And sure China would go after Taiwan but what about Nepal and Tibet?

- - - Updated - - -

Guess I got a lot of researching to do :) but I can pretty much relate to what's going on now right?

But with the technology of US they would go further than surrounding countries than Genghis Khan did? Or same principal applies? Maybe I could start with the US having wars in their own country first like a Civil War? Right wing extreme terrorist groups and such against other groups? Or is that too much?

Why would China go after Nepal and Tibet? How would China profit from these two territories? And why would China not take over Mongolia?

Yes, there's a lot of research missing from the original question, but relating to what's going on right now? I recommend caution: what media are you using to find out about China's current affairs, political climate, people, economic situation, goals, ideals, etc.? I guarantee the Western media is painting a very negative image of China.

Also, "with the tech of the US"? Yeah, these words alone are enough for me to hit the racism button. I don't know if you've realised this, but this post comes off as very "America is superior to China". Probably not your intention. Regarding technology, there are any number of technological inventions and innovations happening in China right now, but news of these innovations are not broadcast outside of the country, if at all. You need to understand the language to know where to look. And 5G was developed in China by Huawei -- a Chinese company. "With tech of the US" is....well.... Let's just say this is the Research forum, not the POC forum.

Starting with the US having a second civil war would probably be best.

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 04:24 PM
I think it's highly likely climate change will be driving much, if not most, of this in upcoming decades and centuries.

While no one has a crystal ball re the exact effects climate change will have on a given geographic location or nation, there are no shortage of general predictions. For instance, desert zones will likely move north, sea levels will rise, floods, droughts, and hurricanes will become worse in some places. I'd do some reading up on various projections, as they will cause profound changes in where people can live, where people can grow food, which diseases afflict people and domestic animals, and on the health of the ecosystems.

Looking at projections of places likely to be hit first and hardest by climate change may give you an idea of the direction and nature of refugee migrations and emigration/immigration.

This is going to cause a lot of social upheaval and migrations of people both within large countries (like the US--think away from currently popular coastal areas and from places prone to droughts, floods, wildfires and extreme heat) and between countries too.

Would the US start to covet farmland up in Canada when farmland in places like the Midwest and the Central Valley of CA turn to desert? What happens to the flow of refugees and international relations that are already strained between some countries if there is widespread famine, disease, floods and so on?

I think the climate change would be a huge issue that would cause places to take over and occupy other lands. US would probably see Canada as a likely big choice if places like Midwest and CA turned to desert. So SE-Asia would serve no purpose then? And for the refugees, with climate change high tides and sea levels changing, does this mean many of them would end up dying?


A good source is HG Wells Outline of Historyhe talks about the Anglo Saxon movement and shows how other countries were overrun.
When you look at history, you start to realize the countries that were in power a little over a hundred years ago are nothing now. I think of the Ottoman Empire, Japan and Germany are no longer the big dog on the porch.

This is what I need to read. Should give me good examples. And I like how you referred to old times when those countries were in power or considered more a threat as times have changed now with different types of wars, threats, etc. But I do have an idea for some immortal or resurrected character from Rome and Italy during the time when they were the Axis powers, to want to continue his conquest to take over and build his empire but I guess that's something different in this case?


A lot of what has happened people didn't see coming beforehand. People simply didn't expect the Berlin Wall to come down without military action or planes to fly into the World Trade Center. Do some research on countries' resources and historical rivalries and objectives, but then, as another here has said, just use your imagination. What you write might be more likely to come true than what any expert predicts.

I meanwhile want to mention that the Israeli-Arab conflict has been around for decades and will likely persist.. I personally feel Arab Muslims have a significant desire to come together into one powerful nation just as Italy and Germany merged from smaller entities in the 19th century. Additionally, Russia has shown interest in taking back areas it formerly ruled--parts of Ukraine, Georgia (the country, not the US state), etc

I think this would work well as long as no one complains about it being controversial, Arab Muslims gaining into one super power like Italy and Germany got into power during WW2 could get some interesting scenes happening. I see Russia going for nearby places like Georgia and Ukraine as that's been talked about already.

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 04:37 PM
But wars are fought in person, so I think it would still apply. The further the country, the more money it would cost to fund that war.

But what about with drones and cyber warfare?


I don't think they would care as much about Nepal and Tibet, unless it's just swallowing them up in their move to invade other countries. Those are pretty inland and don't have much going for it as far as commerce, trade, and such. Taiwan's location made it very desirable in the fight between China and Japan that led to Japan's control of Taiwan. Then added to that, today Taiwan is booming. It's actually quite astounding how a tiny little island could do so much.

You're probably right about that. But would there be any affect or damage taken by places like Tibet and Nepal from the effects of war happening around the world and especially with China and all their military?


Hi! French opinion, here (not that I'm an expert on this subject). I think most Vietnamese immigrants sought asylum and remained in the country, and it mostly stopped in the 90s. Depending on how far in the future your story is set, it's unlikely there'd still be a "strictly Vietnamese" population.



In the current context, most asylum seekers come from the Middle East and Africa, by the Mediterranean Sea. That will probably continue, whether they seek asylum for political or environmental reasons (or both) in the future.


May I also throw in there the possibility that Russia would want to invade Western Europe, with a little support from the US on the other side, to crush the other world leading countries like France, UK, Germany,... :Shrug:

Hey thanks! So Vietnamese populations would of been more during the 60's when the French Indochina occurred and when Vietnamese seemed refugee over to France when communism started to spread in Vietnam? If my story takes place in the future, is it possible that history could repeat itself and Vietnamese would seek refugee to France once again or French seeking refugee to Vietnam even though it all mostly ended by the 90's?

So if most of those fleeing their homeland to France would have been mostly currently from Middle East and Africa by the Mediterranean Sea, what are the most likely nationalities France would have? Would it be Egyptians? Moroccans? Tunisians? West Africans? Most of West Asians which are Arab?

Would Russia wanting to invade western Europe be kind of more in the old days?

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 04:52 PM
Why would China go after Nepal and Tibet? How would China profit from these two territories? And why would China not take over Mongolia?

Yes, there's a lot of research missing from the original question, but relating to what's going on right now? I recommend caution: what media are you using to find out about China's current affairs, political climate, people, economic situation, goals, ideals, etc.? I guarantee the Western media is painting a very negative image of China.


That was my mistake, I was just hearing stories of China wanting to take over most of Tibet, that China wanted it or to be in charge of it. Mongolia seems more likely but doesn't Tibet have resources too?

I have some research about China, but not enough which I have yet to but I see them turning into a very technological society with climate changes having a vast change due to their heavy industries, military, etc. I don;t even watch the Western media, if ever. So I'm not sure what their current views are of China at the moment. But what I gathered China is very much involved in the political area right now.


Also, "with the tech of the US"? Yeah, these words alone are enough for me to hit the racism button. I don't know if you've realised this, but this post comes off as very "America is superior to China". Probably not your intention. Regarding technology, there are any number of technological inventions and innovations happening in China right now, but news of these innovations are not broadcast outside of the country, if at all. You need to understand the language to know where to look. And 5G was developed in China by Huawei -- a Chinese company. "With tech of the US" is....well.... Let's just say this is the Research forum, not the POC forum.

Starting with the US having a second civil war would probably be best.

I think this was a misunderstanding. The US gets most of it's technology from places overseas like even Japan, which currently right now is a step ahead with humanoid robotics and China is probably the most technologically advanced country right now. I should have worded it better with Russia, China and US since they are probably the biggest super powers right now and with technology. I just meant that the US would be wanting to use these resources more now like with drones and cyber war rather than just run up to countries with boats and tanks and ask them to "give us this or else"

I see if anything China taking over most companies and industries of any nation, they already have some of the most advanced cyber crime networks and military warfare, they'd probably have enough resource by my future to have used their technology to take control of the moon and space stations used for weapons. I can have many possibilities with China but I think rural areas could still exist in the Northern parts? like refugee hideouts?

MinaJane
07-16-2019, 05:10 PM
Hey thanks! So Vietnamese populations would of been more during the 60's when the French Indochina occurred and when Vietnamese seemed refugee over to France when communism started to spread in Vietnam? If my story takes place in the future, is it possible that history could repeat itself and Vietnamese would seek refugee to France once again or French seeking refugee to Vietnam even though it all mostly ended by the 90's?

So if most of those fleeing their homeland to France would have been mostly currently from Middle East and Africa by the Mediterranean Sea, what are the most likely nationalities France would have? Would it be Egyptians? Moroccans? Tunisians? West Africans? Most of West Asians which are Arab?

Would Russia wanting to invade western Europe be kind of more in the old days?

I don't see Vietnamese seek refugee in France specifically, now, or what would motivate French people to seek refugee inVietnam. I think the new French generations don't have any significant connection to Vietnam (we barely even study that war in school). That's not the most obvious storyline I'd go for, but you can always create some background to make it work.

About the most likely nationalities, this could benefit from a thorough research, but I think they mostly come from Georgia, Syria, Soudan, Mali, Côte d'Ivoire, probably. But that's only asylum seekers, not other types of migrations. And in any case, no population is coming from a given country in a big enough number that their original nationality would become prominent in France.

About Russia, you're right, but everything is cyclic, a dictator's motives don't evolve much no matter the century, and with a powerful country as an ally, with at its head someone who reaaaallllyyy doesn't like NATO... would that really be so far fetched?

cbenoi1
07-16-2019, 05:16 PM
My story is set in the future I need advice on what are the most likely ethnic backgrounds and races to increase in certain countries and if there was a huge world War that broke out, we're would certain countries look to invade.

Sci-Fi is not about predicting the future. It's about crafting a setting to develop a story. If you find problems with the setting, feel free to change it.

-cb

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 05:48 PM
I don't see Vietnamese seek refugee in France specifically, now, or what would motivate French people to seek refugee inVietnam. I think the new French generations don't have any significant connection to Vietnam (we barely even study that war in school). That's not the most obvious storyline I'd go for, but you can always create some background to make it work.

About the most likely nationalities, this could benefit from a thorough research, but I think they mostly come from Georgia, Syria, Soudan, Mali, Côte d'Ivoire, probably. But that's only asylum seekers, not other types of migrations. And in any case, no population is coming from a given country in a big enough number that their original nationality would become prominent in France.

About Russia, you're right, but everything is cyclic, a dictator's motives don't evolve much no matter the century, and with a powerful country as an ally, with at its head someone who reaaaallllyyy doesn't like NATO... would that really be so far fetched?

So if I had a character from France and he was a mix of white French, Syrian, Georgian and Mande mixed? Or would this get too controversial considering the history and religious beliefs? Is any West African nationality mixed with say Egyptian, Moroccan and caucasian French be any less controversial? And could he end up orphaned in a church like Notre Dame? Or are most churches not really around in France anymore since they seem to be very open and free of any religious beliefs nowadays?

You're probably right about Russia. I think with the how things are currently and if in the future I say they got so super power hungry they could probably start to occupy parts of Germany, France, England maybe and with dislike towards NATO, yeah an ally with US I think could make for interesting scenarios.

MinaJane
07-16-2019, 06:07 PM
So if I had a character from France and he was a mix of white French, Syrian, Georgian and Mande mixed? Or would this get too controversial considering the history and religious beliefs? Is any West African nationality mixed with say Egyptian, Moroccan and caucasian French be any less controversial? And could he end up orphaned in a church like Notre Dame? Or are most churches not really around in France anymore since they seem to be very open and free of any religious beliefs nowadays?

One character a mix of all of these? Maybe a bit much. But not controversial. I actually don't see why several cultures blended together throughout decades of population moving from one country to another should be controversial. No matter which nationalities you want to mix.

Why would that character end up in an orphanage? And no, orphans are taken care of by the State, not the Church. It's not a question of being free of any religious beliefs, which isn't the case in France any more than most countries, but we have the 1905 Law separating State and Church that applies to that situation.

Also, side-note, maybe avoid using "white French" as what seems to be in your mind original/non-immigrant French population. That's the language used by far-right groups and neo-nazis. People could get touchy about this. :)

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 06:28 PM
One character a mix of all of these? Maybe a bit much. But not controversial. I actually don't see why several cultures blended together throughout decades of population moving from one country to another should be controversial. No matter which nationalities you want to mix.

Why would that character end up in an orphanage? And no, orphans are taken care of by the State, not the Church. It's not a question of being free of any religious beliefs, which isn't the case in France any more than most countries, but we have the 1905 Law separating State and Church that applies to that situation.

Also, side-note, maybe avoid using "white French" as what seems to be in your mind original/non-immigrant French population. That's the language used by far-right groups and neo-nazis. People could get touchy about this. :)

The reason I fear it would get controversial is because mixing a character with Arab heritage usually leads to others asking me for an explanation on how that would work with Islam religion being involved. I've been told that mixing other nationalities that are non Islamic with nationalities that are Islamic makes it non believable because a Muslim would never be married with a non Muslim. I.e so say I had one of his distant relatives/ancestors of Egyptian, Syrian or Moroccan descent and that distant relative/ancestor met with a Georgian or any European descendant relative which was most likely Christian. Many would be questioning that as some might be offended by having a Muslim mixed with non Muslim in his family. How would I correct this? Can a non Islam be married or have a child with another Islam?

The church thing is because this character was supposed to be based on a science fictional version of the Hunchback character and I was referring to the Notre Dame church as a nice reference :) but considering this is no longer the 19th century and set in the future, I could go along with the similar concept of that but orphaned or taken care of by the State instead?

Oh sorry about that :( I didn't mean it that way. I was just trying to explain it as the Caucasian people of France because France is so diverse now I didn't want there to be any confusion but usually when someone says French, they are usually referring to someone of Caucasian background because that was the most common demographic race? Unlike the US which is more of a melting pot.

Introversion
07-16-2019, 06:44 PM
I think it's highly likely climate change will be driving much, if not most, of this in upcoming decades and centuries.

^^^ This. Water shortages, rising seas, famines, and wildfires will drive mass migrations and wars. It's likely already happening; there's some evidence (https://www.texasobserver.org/climate-change-migration-central-america-united-states/) that poor rural peoples in Central America are struggling on traditional farms, due to droughts, and some of them are moving north.

Coddiwomple
07-16-2019, 06:45 PM
The reason I fear it would get controversial is because mixing a character with Arab heritage usually leads to others asking me for an explanation on how that would work with Islam religion being involved. I've been told that mixing other nationalities that are non Islamic with nationalities that are Islamic makes it non believable because a Muslim would never be married with a non Muslim.

You've been told this? By whom? I'd advise doing some research on your own, because your sources don't seem ... based in reality. A quick look at the "Interfaith marriage in Islam" page on Wikipedia will show that much in a few seconds (although the page appears to have some issues).

Also, I'd advise that you be careful of lumping nationalities and religions in the same bucket. And be mindful that Islam, like Christianity, is not monolithic. There are myriad flavors and variations and levels of orthodoxy, currently and historically. Try researching the Sunni-Shia split, for starters.

lizmonster
07-16-2019, 06:50 PM
^^^ This. Water shortages, rising seas, famines, and wildfires will drive mass migrations and wars. It's likely already happening; there's some evidence (https://www.texasobserver.org/climate-change-migration-central-america-united-states/) that poor rural peoples in Central America are struggling on traditional farms, due to droughts, and some of them are moving north.

This is exactly why worrying about "accurate" demographics for anything near-future is probably not worth the time. People are going to be scrambling to get anywhere that's above water and tillable. It makes sense to look at history for factual references, but when you're building a hypothetical, the possibilities are endless - and they're all plausible.

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 07:11 PM
You've been told this? By whom? I'd advise doing some research on your own, because your sources don't seem ... based in reality. A quick look at the "Interfaith marriage in Islam" page on Wikipedia will show that much in a few seconds (although the page appears to have some issues).

Also, I'd advise that you be careful of lumping nationalities and religions in the same bucket. And be mindful that Islam, like Christianity, is not monolithic. There are myriad flavors and variations and levels of orthodoxy, currently and historically. Try researching the Sunni-Shia split, for starters.

By others on the internet. I'll look more into this.

Is Sunni-Shia mixed with Europeans or more likely mixed in general?

Do you know anything about what happens to orphans in France or those who've lost their parents? Is there a type of orphanage or does the State do something for them?

waylander
07-16-2019, 07:22 PM
France had a significant empire in north and west Africa, there are a lot of Francophone countries down there and migrants would naturally look to France as a destination as they already speak the language.

lizmonster
07-16-2019, 07:26 PM
By others on the internet. I'll look more into this.

As a fellow SF author, I'd suggest you don't base your worldbuilding on random remarks from people on the internet. If you're building in the history of countries and ethnicities, you need to be doing a lot of real-world research. There's been a tremendous amount of scholarly historical work done in all of the areas you're discussing. I'd encourage you to begin by befriending your local librarian.

We can help you here, a little, but you're likely to get more useful answers with more specific questions. I doubt any of us are experts on the history of every single part of the world.

Snitchcat
07-16-2019, 07:37 PM
I'll have to read this now.



These should be some good ideas for me to look into. And a lot of it would have to do with fresh water, agriculture and many resources and if it's the future maybe stolen identities to easily rob them form their information, their lives and such?

And sure China would go after Taiwan but what about Nepal and Tibet?

- - - Updated - - -
But with the technology of US they would go further


I think this was a misunderstanding.

Where was the misunderstanding? I'm sure I read these words correctly.


I should have worded it better with Russia, China and US since they are probably the biggest super powers right now and with technology. I just meant that the US would be wanting to use these resources more now like with drones and cyber war rather than just run up to countries with boats and tanks and ask them to "give us this or else"

Considering the current political climate and what it bodes for the future, I doubt the US would be able to negotiate even a whiff of China's technological progress.

I highly recommend leaving China out of this until in-depth research has been done. And even then, I wouldn't recommend including China.

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 07:56 PM
As a fellow SF author, I'd suggest you don't base your worldbuilding on random remarks from people on the internet. If you're building in the history of countries and ethnicities, you need to be doing a lot of real-world research. There's been a tremendous amount of scholarly historical work done in all of the areas you're discussing. I'd encourage you to begin by befriending your local librarian.

We can help you here, a little, but you're likely to get more useful answers with more specific questions. I doubt any of us are experts on the history of every single part of the world.

Thanks, I appreciate all the help and advice given to me here. I'll try and look up the best research I can, see if I can gain anything from my local library if anything.

But about the current situation with someone orphaned or parents disappeared? Where would that child from France go? What would the state provide for them or put them if churches are no longer common?


Where was the misunderstanding? I'm sure I read these words correctly.

Sorry I thought you misunderstood me when you said that I assumed only US was a super power with technology and China being less technological.


Considering the current political climate and what it bodes for the future, I doubt the US would be able to negotiate even a whiff of China's technological progress.

I highly recommend leaving China out of this until in-depth research has been done. And even then, I wouldn't recommend including China.

Probably not. I think China would maybe have their own intentions not getting US involved in their work.

The thing is I wanted to include China into my story because it revolves around a lot of it. There would be a war going on involving US, China and Russia/Eastern Europe with technology super powers, sort of like a cold war 2 and involving the Middle East and other nations as well. If I do enough research, couldn't I include China in this?

Snitchcat
07-16-2019, 08:08 PM
You could include China, but the issue you'll face the deeper you get into the research is the lack of information in English or another language you might know. This is especially true of public military information.

And how the Central Gov operates, the inner workings? Translated information may provide broad strokes, but the details you'll likely need aren't translated or even published.

China is complicated. Even its citizens aren't experts on the Central Gov or all parts of the country, its history, etc.

Shadow555
07-16-2019, 08:25 PM
You could include China, but the issue you'll face the deeper you get into the research is the lack of information in English or another language you might know. This is especially true of public military information.

And how the Central Gov operates, the inner workings? Translated information may provide broad strokes, but the details you'll likely need aren't translated or even published.

China is complicated. Even its citizens aren't experts on the Central Gov or all parts of the country, its history, etc.

So where could I get the proper research? Or if this set in the very future and is sci fi could that make it easier?

Introversion
07-16-2019, 08:29 PM
The thing is I wanted to include China into my story because it revolves around a lot of it. There would be a war going on involving US, China and Russia/Eastern Europe with technology super powers, sort of like a cold war 2 and involving the Middle East and other nations as well.

One thing to consider: How much detail your world-building needs here probably depends on who your characters are.

If they're highly-placed national politicians, military brass, or journalists who cover world issues, then they'd probably have a pretty good overview of how things are playing out.

But if they're average people, they're likely to be confused and/or ignorant of details. That ignorance could be because they're just trying to survive and don't have time to be informed, or because propaganda and social media fake news are drowning out actual reporting, at least to them. If you're going in this direction, then you can probably be fuzzier about the details and get away with it.

Snitchcat
07-16-2019, 08:32 PM
Try Taiwanese bookshops. They might carry something helpful. HK bookshops, too. Your local Chinatown may or may not have resources. Or a university.

There are many more places, but you'll need to find them according to your location.

MinaJane
07-16-2019, 10:58 PM
The reason I fear it would get controversial is because mixing a character with Arab heritage usually leads to others asking me for an explanation on how that would work with Islam religion being involved. I've been told that mixing other nationalities that are non Islamic with nationalities that are Islamic makes it non believable because a Muslim would never be married with a non Muslim. I.e so say I had one of his distant relatives/ancestors of Egyptian, Syrian or Moroccan descent and that distant relative/ancestor met with a Georgian or any European descendant relative which was most likely Christian. Many would be questioning that as some might be offended by having a Muslim mixed with non Muslim in his family. How would I correct this? Can a non Islam be married or have a child with another Islam?

The church thing is because this character was supposed to be based on a science fictional version of the Hunchback character and I was referring to the Notre Dame church as a nice reference :) but considering this is no longer the 19th century and set in the future, I could go along with the similar concept of that but orphaned or taken care of by the State instead?

Oh sorry about that :( I didn't mean it that way. I was just trying to explain it as the Caucasian people of France because France is so diverse now I didn't want there to be any confusion but usually when someone says French, they are usually referring to someone of Caucasian background because that was the most common demographic race? Unlike the US which is more of a melting pot.

I think you're misinformed about religious beliefs in France, and in general, and also about Islam.
+1 to Coddiwomple's reply. I couldn't have said it better.


Do you know anything about what happens to orphans in France or those who've lost their parents? Is there a type of orphanage or does the State do something for them?
Of course, there's a whole system that takes care of those hundreds of children, I imagine pretty similar to the US foster care system. My knowledge in that area is limited, but there must be some data you can research if you want your story to be grounded and accurate.

That being said, I don't write SF, but I think that what the other members here are saying sounds like good advice: maybe you should just focus on creating a future world that serves the story you want to tell :)

frimble3
07-16-2019, 11:44 PM
But about the current situation with someone orphaned or parents disappeared? Where would that child from France go? What would the state provide for them or put them if churches are no longer common?

I believe the churches are still in France, although the congregations are probably aging, but the government has taken over many of their historic functions:
Education, providing for orphans, the destitute, medical care, the elderly.

frimble3
07-16-2019, 11:48 PM
But about the current situation with someone orphaned or parents disappeared? Where would that child from France go? What would the state provide for them or put them if churches are no longer common?

I believe the churches are still in France, although the congregations are probably aging, but the State has taken over many of their historic functions:
Education, providing for orphans, the destitute, medical care, the elderly.

BTW, where are you located? This might make it easier to suggest resources.

Bing Z
07-16-2019, 11:49 PM
@shadow555, how far into the future are you thinking?

Helix
07-17-2019, 04:16 AM
France had a significant empire in north and west Africa, there are a lot of Francophone countries down there and migrants would naturally look to France as a destination as they already speak the language.

Additionally, France has an interest in the Pacific.



Is Sunni-Shia mixed with Europeans or more likely mixed in general?

Sunni and Shia are the major denominations of Islam. You really, really need to start reading up on this.

Shadow555
07-17-2019, 03:30 PM
One thing to consider: How much detail your world-building needs here probably depends on who your characters are.

If they're highly-placed national politicians, military brass, or journalists who cover world issues, then they'd probably have a pretty good overview of how things are playing out.

But if they're average people, they're likely to be confused and/or ignorant of details. That ignorance could be because they're just trying to survive and don't have time to be informed, or because propaganda and social media fake news are drowning out actual reporting, at least to them. If you're going in this direction, then you can probably be fuzzier about the details and get away with it.

I have military characters, cyborgs, futuristic gangsters, refugees, maybe some politician involvement, advanced scientist, cyber cops, pharma companies with advanced experiments, dystopian war and destroyed cities that sort of stuff. Would this change anything? Could I get away without going into so much detail about China?


Try Taiwanese bookshops. They might carry something helpful. HK bookshops, too. Your local Chinatown may or may not have resources. Or a university.

There are many more places, but you'll need to find them according to your location.

Thanks I'll look into this.


I think you're misinformed about religious beliefs in France, and in general, and also about Islam.
+1 to Coddiwomple's reply. I couldn't have said it better.

Sorry I apologize about this :(


Of course, there's a whole system that takes care of those hundreds of children, I imagine pretty similar to the US foster care system. My knowledge in that area is limited, but there must be some data you can research if you want your story to be grounded and accurate.

That being said, I don't write SF, but I think that what the other members here are saying sounds like good advice: maybe you should just focus on creating a future world that serves the story you want to tell :)

I'll try my best. Though it seems like something similar to a foster care would work. Though this is set in the future so maybe I can get creative with it?

That's what I'm working on. Creating a story that is set in an dystopian future where crazy things are happening all over the place :)


I believe the churches are still in France, although the congregations are probably aging, but the government has taken over many of their historic functions:
Education, providing for orphans, the destitute, medical care, the elderly.

Thanks! But could this still be an idea for me to sue set in the future? Would it make sense being in the future?




BTW, where are you located? This might make it easier to suggest resources.

East coast tri-state area, if that helps :)


@shadow555, how far into the future are you thinking?

I was thinking anywhere from 2070-2080ish? To 2120-2170 maybe?

Shadow555
07-17-2019, 03:35 PM
Additionally, France has an interest in the Pacific.

I guess this is good to know too. Which islands though?


Sunni and Shia are the major denominations of Islam. You really, really need to start reading up on this.

My character from France is supposed to be a mix of Caucasian, black and Arabic. Does religion really matter for him? Would he have to be Islamic or have any religious ties to anything? I can research more about Sunni and Shia and wouldn't mind if that was his religion. I'd just have to make sure it's presented very accurately or would him being Muslim be too controversial, even in a SF world?

lizmonster
07-17-2019, 03:57 PM
I was thinking anywhere from 2070-2080ish? To 2120-2170 (tel:2120-2170) maybe?

For a timeframe this close, you're going to need some solid history behind you. How much world history have you studied? I'm going to suggest the library again, because I think textbook-level sources would be the best place to start.


My character from France is supposed to be a mix of Caucasian, black and Arabic. Does religion really matter for him? Would he have to be Islamic or have any religious ties to anything? I can research more about Sunni and Shia and wouldn't mind if that was his religion. I'd just have to make sure it's presented very accurately or would him being Muslim be too controversial, even in a SF world?

Writing a Muslim character is not controversial. Doing it when you're not Muslim yourself is dicier. Doing it when you're still struggling with basic understanding of the faith is not a great idea. It's one of the big world religions; there are a lot of in-depth sources out there.

And no, there's nothing about your character's ethnicity that means he must be Muslim. Not sure where you're getting that. You don't have to have religion involved in your story at all, but given the scope and timeframe you're talking about, that's probably unrealistic. Again: reading is your friend here.

You need to do more than scratch the surface of a few definitions if you're going to build a solid world.

Helix
07-17-2019, 04:14 PM
I guess this is good to know too. Which islands though?

French Polynesia. Others, as Google will reveal.



My character from France is supposed to be a mix of Caucasian, black and Arabic. Does religion really matter for him? Would he have to be Islamic or have any religious ties to anything? I can research more about Sunni and Shia and wouldn't mind if that was his religion. I'd just have to make sure it's presented very accurately or would him being Muslim be too controversial, even in a SF world?

He can be an atheist or a Pastafarian, if you like. But, as Lizmonster says, you need to do a lot more work to create an authentic-feeling story.

Introversion
07-17-2019, 05:18 PM
I have military characters, cyborgs, futuristic gangsters, refugees, maybe some politician involvement, advanced scientist, cyber cops, pharma companies with advanced experiments, dystopian war and destroyed cities that sort of stuff. Would this change anything? Could I get away without going into so much detail about China?

I have this desire to want to understand everything in the worlds I write, because I want them to feel authentic.

But, sometimes I find myself stuck in "analysis paralysis" -- I realize that I'm actually so afraid of getting some little detail wrong, that it gets in the way of actually, you know, writing.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing. Just that I and others have been telling you you need to research more, so I just wanted to encourage you not to let that advice get in the way of actual, you know, writing. :)

Example: The novel I'm glacially grinding away on now is a product of alt-history, where for various reasons Europe never conquered North or South America, nor most of Africa, etc. One of my protagonists is ethnically of Chinese, Russian, and western native American peoples, and I am at times completely locked up in fear of writing her in an unbelievable way. I feel like I need to understand when and how her Russian (not called that in my world) and Chinese (not called that in my world) ancestors came to the west coast of North America (not called that in my world), and why, and why were they accepted when European forces were repelled aggressively especially on the east coast? How has that blended culture worked? Who influences who, and how?

But you know what? I don't need to understand all of that right now. I can write scenes with her, as a naive young woman visiting London, and that helps me understand her personality and the right voice to use for her, and those are far more important IMO to get right. The details that put her where she is "today", that aren't critically important, I can get right later if I even need to put them in the story.

So, take our advice with grains of salt. ;) Write. Get your characters and basic plot right. If you're a plotter, maybe get more than the basic plot in advance. But write. Don't get too hung up on world-building analysis-paralysis.

Fundamentally, you can do anything in your world, if you can "sell" the reader on it. Setting your story in the near future means readers will have more knowledge about the world today and will probably be skeptical if you (say) say anything about Islam that fundamentally isn't true today. But 100 years farther in the future? If you say Islam united across the world during the Great Nebula Burst of 2098, and now the sects like Sunni and Shia we know today are just historical oddities in 2175, readers will probably accept that.

The farther in the future you go, the harder you'll want to work to make it seem real, though. You can't borrow as much from today. People in 2175 (or whatever) aren't going to use the same slang, talk about the same politics, act like 21st century Americans. etc.

Bing Z
07-17-2019, 05:51 PM
I was thinking anywhere from 2070-2080ish? To 2120-2170 maybe?

So we'll have past the most tense scenario scholars are currently worrying--the Thucydides's Trap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_T._Allison#Thucydides's_Trap). The further into the future, the more freedom and leeway you have to build our world.

From around 2026 (PwC (https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/issues/economy/the-world-in-2050.html)) to 2035 (China's estimate), China will become the largest economy in the world. Also from PwC's estimate, by 2050, the US will be competing with India for the #2 spot. By 2080-2170, the technological levels in these countries (and many others) will be pretty similar... if the world gets to see it.

For a reference, the UN's world population estimate for 2050 comprises of 20% from the 'Western' countries, 26% Africans, and 54% Asians (in Asia, not counting the immigrants & their offspring in the US which will hit 8% of US population or so by then). OTOH, the world GDP projection for 2050 will be 39% for the 'Western' countries, 52% for Asian countries, and 9% for the African countries. You can sense where the conflicts & tension will come from.

Throughout human history, people went to war for resources. In the very past, people invaded mostly for human resources... killed the men, enslaved the women & children. That doesn't work anymore. Human assets, even slaves, are damn expensive to maintain. Robots are way cheaper. So the reasons to go to war would probably be political ideals and for other resources (or maybe trade wars evolve into real war (https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/united-states/article/2155565/trade-wars-cause-world-wars-history-shows-will)?).

As for where to invade, two rationales come up:

a) the easy targets. say Russia is to invade some country for the heck of it. It makes little sense to invade France or Germany where they have a decent defense. Chances are they would target the Baltic states (can probably finish one in a day). Same token, if China wants to invade someone for fun, it makes little sense to go for India. Maybe they would target Nepal? (But Nepalese make some of the world's best military fighters... the entailing guerilla warfare would be nasty.)

b) back to why invade--> resources... specifically, untapped resources... ie, the unclaimed oceans. That means the war will be a privilege for very powerful countries with very powerful navies (invent these countries). The good news is that these wars will cost very little civilian casualties.

Snitchcat
07-17-2019, 08:10 PM
I highly recommend you start reading, even while writing.

frimble3
07-18-2019, 01:54 AM
a) the easy targets. say Russia is to invade some country for the heck of it. It makes little sense to invade France or Germany where they have a decent defense. Chances are they would target the Baltic states (can probably finish one in a day).
OH, let's just say it: they're going to invade Poland. They've done it before. Everybody in the area has done it before. In and out by lunchtime.

Same token, if China wants to invade someone for fun, it makes little sense to go for India. Maybe they would target Nepal? (But Nepalese make some of the world's best military fighters... the entailing guerilla warfare would be nasty.) Oh, yes. Rough terrain, guys with local knowledge, trained in various armies, fighting over old grudges. I'm not betting on the Chinese troops. Many men are many targets.

Helix
07-18-2019, 01:58 AM
Some thoughts:

What about NATO? Does it still exist in this imagined world? Is it going to let Russia rearrange borders?

If China invaded Nepal (for whatever reason), India would have something to say about it.

frimble3
07-18-2019, 02:17 AM
Example: The novel I'm glacially grinding away on now is a product of alt-history, where for various reasons Europe never conquered North or South America, nor most of Africa, etc. One of my protagonists is ethnically of Chinese, Russian, and western native American peoples, and I am at times completely locked up in fear of writing her in an unbelievable way. I feel like I need to understand when and how her Russian (not called that in my world) and Chinese (not called that in my world) ancestors came to the west coast of North America (not called that in my world), and why, and why were they accepted when European forces were repelled aggressively especially on the east coast? How has that blended culture worked? Who influences who, and how?

OT, but my theory as to why the Russians and Chinese were better received: they were traders. They brought interesting and desirable products and trading them for things the tribes had or could get: otter skins. This was understandable, and no big deal. The West Coast peoples traded among themselves. After conducting business, the traders went away. Everybody was happy. Sure, there were permanent trading posts, but that was for everyone's convenience, no standing at the edge of the forest, "Hey, buddy, want to trade a fur for an axe?".
On the East Coast, the Native Americans greeted boatloads of settlers. People
who wanted to stay, to build houses, take land and, gradually, over. They had nothing to trade, and were a pack of moochers who couldn't feed themselves or do much of anything else. And they treated the Native Americans that they met as though the Natives were inferiors. The Native Americans were okay with the first pitiful boatloads, but when there appeared to be an unquenchable flow of these people, all wanting, wanting, wanting, well, enough is enough.

Introversion
07-18-2019, 03:20 AM
OT, but my theory as to why the Russians and Chinese were better received: they were traders. They brought interesting and desirable products and trading them for things the tribes had or could get: otter skins. This was understandable, and no big deal. The West Coast peoples traded among themselves. After conducting business, the traders went away. Everybody was happy. Sure, there were permanent trading posts, but that was for everyone's convenience, no standing at the edge of the forest, "Hey, buddy, want to trade a fur for an axe?".
On the East Coast, the Native Americans greeted boatloads of settlers. People
who wanted to stay, to build houses, take land and, gradually, over. They had nothing to trade, and were a pack of moochers who couldn't feed themselves or do much of anything else. And they treated the Native Americans that they met as though the Natives were inferiors. The Native Americans were okay with the first pitiful boatloads, but when there appeared to be an unquenchable flow of these people, all wanting, wanting, wanting, well, enough is enough.

I went in a slightly different direction, but all of that is plausible and would work! :Thumbs::)

Shadow555
07-18-2019, 07:03 PM
I have this desire to want to understand everything in the worlds I write, because I want them to feel authentic.

But, sometimes I find myself stuck in "analysis paralysis" -- I realize that I'm actually so afraid of getting some little detail wrong, that it gets in the way of actually, you know, writing.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing. Just that I and others have been telling you you need to research more, so I just wanted to encourage you not to let that advice get in the way of actual, you know, writing. :)

What if I did this as more of a graphic novel or comic book? Would that require less research? Regardless I'm willing to do all the research necessary but there may be certain things that will be impossible to research and find (e.g like how the people of China may barely even know all about their governments insides and outs) I would have to know people on the inside to get such vital information just to be as authentic as possible. I notice in comics they don't have to put as much focus onto every detailed aspect? Though I do know it's important to still have some level of authenticity, as long as others understand it?


Example: The novel I'm glacially grinding away on now is a product of alt-history, where for various reasons Europe never conquered North or South America, nor most of Africa, etc. One of my protagonists is ethnically of Chinese, Russian, and western native American peoples, and I am at times completely locked up in fear of writing her in an unbelievable way. I feel like I need to understand when and how her Russian (not called that in my world) and Chinese (not called that in my world) ancestors came to the west coast of North America (not called that in my world), and why, and why were they accepted when European forces were repelled aggressively especially on the east coast? How has that blended culture worked? Who influences who, and how?

I give you lots of props for this as I'd be so afraid to step into an altered history of what happened of my fear of getting those angry for what happened to their ancestors history and others taking offense to it :( but this really sounds awesome and I'd love to create a world like that similar to what if the Chinese, Russians and Natives of North America had all interacted, integrated and what would of come of the decades later on, or would there have been a civil war through history? Would there have been a similar kind? Would slavery still have existed or been different? What would of happened throughout the piracy Golden Age, etc.


But you know what? I don't need to understand all of that right now. I can write scenes with her, as a naive young woman visiting London, and that helps me understand her personality and the right voice to use for her, and those are far more important IMO to get right. The details that put her where she is "today", that aren't critically important, I can get right later if I even need to put them in the story.

So, take our advice with grains of salt. ;) Write. Get your characters and basic plot right. If you're a plotter, maybe get more than the basic plot in advance. But write. Don't get too hung up on world-building analysis-paralysis.

Why couldn't I just build on the characters story then of where they are today and maybe have it mentioned that through history they had this ancestral heritage, like Arabian, Egyptian, Indian, any European, West & North African or just not even mention it? Maybe by my worlds timeframe everyone is just mixed? But that could make it seem like there are no such things as races anymore and all are the same?


Fundamentally, you can do anything in your world, if you can "sell" the reader on it. Setting your story in the near future means readers will have more knowledge about the world today and will probably be skeptical if you (say) say anything about Islam that fundamentally isn't true today. But 100 years farther in the future? If you say Islam united across the world during the Great Nebula Burst of 2098, and now the sects like Sunni and Shia we know today are just historical oddities in 2175, readers will probably accept that.

This may be a great idea for me to look into, maybe then I don't have to get the religion so much involved as this shows the times have changing or a "what if" scenario if something like this occurred and it's further into the future. Could something like this work?


The farther in the future you go, the harder you'll want to work to make it seem real, though. You can't borrow as much from today. People in 2175 (or whatever) aren't going to use the same slang, talk about the same politics, act like 21st century Americans. etc.

So further I go into the future, it would be less relatable to an audience to accept?

lizmonster
07-18-2019, 08:17 PM
What if I did this as more of a graphic novel or comic book? Would that require less research?

Probably not.


Regardless I'm willing to do all the research necessary but there may be certain things that will be impossible to research and find (e.g like how the people of China may barely even know all about their governments insides and outs) I would have to know people on the inside to get such vital information just to be as authentic as possible.

Well, yes, you would. You could ask for beta readers, or read one of the many, many historical accounts and memoirs written by people who live/lived in those communities.


I give you lots of props for this as I'd be so afraid to step into an altered history of what happened of my fear of getting those angry for what happened to their ancestors history and others taking offense to it :(

If you're looking to avoid offense, you might as well quit writing, because you could write the most benign thing in the universe and it'll still piss somebody off.

If, on the other hand, you're looking to write something authentic - decide what you want to write, and do your research. There are no shortcuts here.


So further I go into the future, it would be less relatable to an audience to accept?

As long as you're writing future-now, you're going to be extrapolating based on the reality of the world today. To make your extrapolation plausible, you're going to want to understand how humans have interacted politically through the ages. Governments may change, religions may grow/adapt/appear/vanish, but we got where we are because humans, in aggregate, have certain behavior patterns.

Studying history is one of the best ways to brainstorm SFF, I've found.

Introversion
07-18-2019, 08:31 PM
What if I did this as more of a graphic novel or comic book? Would that require less research?

That seems like asking, "What if I wrote a movie script instead?" Well, is it a G-rated kids' film?

Edited to add: I'm currently reading the graphic novel Berlin by Jason Lutes (https://www.amazon.com/Berlin-Jason-Lutes-ebook/dp/B07NGZTQCZ). It's anything but "less research". It's brutal, graphic in every sense of the word, and it's a clearly adult novel. Since the author is writing about a real period in history, he necessarily had to do his research to carry it off successfully, and it really shows.


I give you lots of props for this as I'd be so afraid to step into an altered history of what happened of my fear of getting those angry for what happened to their ancestors history and others taking offense to it :(

Someone will be offended at almost anything you write. Don't do it on purpose. Research as much as you can.


Why couldn't I just build on the characters story then of where they are today and maybe have it mentioned that through history they had this ancestral heritage, like Arabian, Egyptian, Indian, any European, West & North African or just not even mention it? Maybe by my worlds timeframe everyone is just mixed? But that could make it seem like there are no such things as races anymore and all are the same?

You can try to write color-blind to race, ethnicity, etc. If you've got wars going on, though, history counts. Who attacks who, and why. Race, ethnicities, religion, play into it.


This may be a great idea for me to look into, maybe then I don't have to get the religion so much involved as this shows the times have changing or a "what if" scenario if something like this occurred and it's further into the future. Could something like this work?

Write it and see?


So further I go into the future, it would be less relatable to an audience to accept?

Well, I think people 100 years from now are still going to act petty, greedy, loving, hateful, etc. But their slang will be different, the way technology and climate change and recent wars shape their worries, their language, etc will be different.

100 years ago, we didn't have: Microwave ovens, cell phones, the Internet, television, commercial radio broadcasts. In the U.S., women couldn't yet vote. We didn't yet know about galaxies and that ours is just one of trillions. No white man had yet climbed Mt. Everest. Airplanes were primitive; commercial air travel had started just a few years earlier. No interstate highway system yet built. There were only 48 states. We'd not yet experienced the horrors of WW2 and Hitler's genocide. We'd yet to experience the Great Depression. Climate change wasn't yet a concern. We'd yet to discover antibiotics, and many people died of what we think of today as trivial afflictions.

Technology advances quicker every decade. In another 100 years, climate change will be a serious problem if not an existential crisis for mankind. So, I don't think you need to worry about making your 100-years-from-now characters relatable. They'll be people. But you'll need to imagine a lot of their history, to "sell" your readers on it.

PostHuman
07-18-2019, 10:30 PM
Like if Russia was to want to take over certain territory, where would they most likely try to occupy? Most of Eastern Europe? Central Asia? Southeast Asia? Thailand? Vietnam?

They seem to be already working at a more effective way to take over first CIS and then NATO countries from within without costly military hardware/manpower. They took their existing internal propaganda teams that influence public opinion in rural/provincial Russia and directed them to focus on neighboring countries, seeking to prop up candidates favorable to their interests. They have already begun to use these same teams to influence elections in 27 countries, most notably Italy, France, Germany, UK, US, Poland, Ukraine, Turkey and Spain. Provided they continue these efforts which are not easily countered with tools of modern democracy, eventually they may control the policy of various nations without requiring local military presence (or perhaps even being invited to establish military presence)



Where would China and North Korea try to take over or increase their military bases?

China has adopted an approach somewhat similar to Russia in expanding influence without military action by financing the building of ports, train systems, mass transit, airports etc in various countries. Because these transactions involved financially unsound projects, it has been considered a new kind of colonialism and in some cases China used the debt to take possession of the port or influence policy. For example Djibouti's debt went from 50% of GDP to 80% after China financed construction of a large port and they were also permitted to build a Chinese military base. In Sri Lanka China has already taken possession of the port after the government defaulted.



What about the US? If they were to increase military bases. Would they try to take the Middle East? Most of Mexico and Canada? Any of Southeast Asia?

Not sure about this, but I imagine some kind of invasion of our neighbors would likely have more to do with our response to some sort of economic collapse. US GDP is so closely tied to these countries that for example a coup or communist party winning elections in Mexico etc would have severe consequences for our own economy.



What are some of the most common races and ethnicities in France besides French, Europeans and whites? In the future what races and ethnicities are likely to increase more in France?


There is a law in France that prevents any census which makes distinction by race or religious beliefs, so precise demographics might be difficult to determine. The larger cities in France are similar to any other large city with many people from all over the world. From personal experience living in Paris, Beaune and Cannes I met many French citizens who had parents or grandparents from former colonies like Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Cameroon, many immigrants also from other EU countries like Italy, Portugal, Spain, UK. Some few I met from more distant origins like China, US, South America, Korea etc

Shadow555
07-19-2019, 01:37 AM
And no, there's nothing about your character's ethnicity that means he must be Muslim. Not sure where you're getting that. You don't have to have religion involved in your story at all, but given the scope and timeframe you're talking about, that's probably unrealistic. Again: reading is your friend here.

What if I just said that he was from a North African parent like an Egyptian, Moroccan or Tunisian dad and a West African parent like a Mande mom and both his parents were killed or something but before they died they left him with a French couple or a French couple found him who are non religious so he was brought up non religiously? Especially if his foster French parents were also killed or maybe kidnapped while he was a child and now as a child he is taken in to some governed facility as an orphan trained or something. Sure his race and heritage will always be the same, his biological parents could of been Sunni or Shia Muslims but he was already adopted or taken in by others so religion will no longer matter right?


So we'll have past the most tense scenario scholars are currently worrying--the Thucydides's Trap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_T._Allison#Thucydides's_Trap). The further into the future, the more freedom and leeway you have to build our world.

From around 2026 (PwC (https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/issues/economy/the-world-in-2050.html)) to 2035 (China's estimate), China will become the largest economy in the world. Also from PwC's estimate, by 2050, the US will be competing with India for the #2 spot. By 2080-2170, the technological levels in these countries (and many others) will be pretty similar... if the world gets to see it.

For a reference, the UN's world population estimate for 2050 comprises of 20% from the 'Western' countries, 26% Africans, and 54% Asians (in Asia, not counting the immigrants & their offspring in the US which will hit 8% of US population or so by then). OTOH, the world GDP projection for 2050 will be 39% for the 'Western' countries, 52% for Asian countries, and 9% for the African countries. You can sense where the conflicts & tension will come from.

Throughout human history, people went to war for resources. In the very past, people invaded mostly for human resources... killed the men, enslaved the women & children. That doesn't work anymore. Human assets, even slaves, are damn expensive to maintain. Robots are way cheaper. So the reasons to go to war would probably be political ideals and for other resources (or maybe trade wars evolve into real war (https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/united-states/article/2155565/trade-wars-cause-world-wars-history-shows-will)?).

As for where to invade, two rationales come up:

a) the easy targets. say Russia is to invade some country for the heck of it. It makes little sense to invade France or Germany where they have a decent defense. Chances are they would target the Baltic states (can probably finish one in a day). Same token, if China wants to invade someone for fun, it makes little sense to go for India. Maybe they would target Nepal? (But Nepalese make some of the world's best military fighters... the entailing guerilla warfare would be nasty.)

b) back to why invade--> resources... specifically, untapped resources... ie, the unclaimed oceans. That means the war will be a privilege for very powerful countries with very powerful navies (invent these countries). The good news is that these wars will cost very little civilian casualties.

I think something like this will work for me! I can at least try it out.


Some thoughts:

What about NATO? Does it still exist in this imagined world? Is it going to let Russia rearrange borders?

If China invaded Nepal (for whatever reason), India would have something to say about it.

I'm not so sure yet, but I did want to include NATO into the future, maybe they merged in with Russia as Russia had taken over or decided between Russia and China? Probably a bad idea, but I do want NATO to exist but maybe in a different name.

Snitchcat
07-19-2019, 05:52 AM
This is starting to sound like a brainstorming thread, not a research one.

If you're looking to brainstorm, I suggest the Brainstorming Sandbox forum. Alternatively, you could ask a mod to move this thread there.

---------

Re, China in the future.

Again, I strongly recommend reading/researching as you write.

And if you're involving the military and the Central Government, then look up then related information.

Shadow555
07-19-2019, 06:50 AM
My apologies, didn't mean to go off topic there.




Re, China in the future.

Again, I strongly recommend reading/researching as you write.

And if you're involving the military and the Central Government, then look up then related information.

I can try with the library. Internet should also help me if I dig deep enough I would think. I know someone who is Chinese but they themselves don't even know enough about China when I asked so looks like I'm on my on with this one.

Helix
07-19-2019, 07:08 AM
Shadow555, have you looked up any of these countries and topics on Wikipedia? Yes, it's very basic, but I think it might be a good place for you to start. You'll probably get more usable ideas that way than by this scattergun approach.