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benbenberi
06-30-2019, 09:43 PM
My characters live in a doorman building in present-day Manhattan & sometimes weekend in the country. My MC is guardian of a young boy (age 14 or 15) who is under an ongoing threat of kidnapping by the MC's enemies. MC wants the boy to live a completely normal life. The boy does not know he is in any danger.

Without revealing the threat to the boy (which would inevitably raise awkward questions like "why?" he would rather avoid), what steps can my MC take to protect him?

Money is no object.

cornflake
06-30-2019, 09:51 PM
My characters live in a doorman building in present-day Manhattan & sometimes weekend in the country. My MC is guardian of a young boy (age 14 or 15) who is under an ongoing threat of kidnapping by the MC's enemies. MC wants the boy to live a completely normal life. The boy does not know he is in any danger.

Without revealing the threat to the boy (which would inevitably raise awkward questions like "why?" he would rather avoid), what steps can my MC take to protect him?

Money is no object.

I can't see any way to put a bodyguard on a kid without the kid noticing. You can have security dressed in street clothes and stuff, but if you want him actually guarded -- or, say, traveling in a car a lot, he's going to notice.

Enlightened
06-30-2019, 09:51 PM
Tracking software on the boy's mobile devices. Maybe bracelets or something like this have these capabilities.

Security detail following the boy.

Setup security check question(s). The boy is not to go with anyone unless they know the response approved people are to give.

Roxxsmom
06-30-2019, 10:50 PM
Many kids these days are pretty heavily monitored anyway, so it might be possible just to pose as the kind of paranoid parent who tracks their kids whereabouts and monitors their communications and has them microchipped and never lets them out of the house without adult supervision, only let them visit friends whose families are well known etc (or only socialize outside of school in well-chaperoned environments). A modern kid would likely accept that and consider it normal, since so many of their friends are treated the same way.

I suppose he could hire someone to tail the kid from a discreet distance and to keep an eye out for other people who are discreetly following the kid. It would probably be easier for someone doing this to hide in the crowds in New York City than in a small town or suburban environment. Private investigators monitor people without being detected all the time for all kinds of reasons (like someone hiring someone to spy on a spouse they think is cheating), so someone with that kind of skill set, along with bodyguard abilities?

ap123
06-30-2019, 11:32 PM
I think it would be difficult, but not impossible, to pull it off without the kid noticing, provided the building is a high security building, not just a doorman, kiddo attended a private school, and both the building staff, the school staff, and any after school classes/activities knew not only that the kid had a security detail, but exactly who that detail included. There is no way in a high security building an unknown person can just hang around the lobby of a full service apartment building, or outside the doors, or even across the street for any length of time without being noticed and questioned. To enter the private schools, you must have ID along with a stated purpose and specific person you are there to see. I suppose you could set it in the fall when there are tours going on, have security sign up for a tour (this is done well, well in advance to get a spot), and have them try planting cameras/bugs, but where they're taken on tour is not necessarily the classrooms kiddo will be in, and there is no way to separate from the group and wander unnoticed. A big potential plot hole is friends. Kids invite other kids over, they go to other kids' apartments, both situations often involve friends of friends unknown to adults showing up/coming along.

Is this a kid who will travel to/from school by limo, or is he taking the train? There are some uber wealthy who consider limos/drivers to be completely normal, and others who recognize that for the nuisance that it is and travel by subway, more using public transit by the time they're teens. Subways make it easy for your security detail to lose themselves in a crowd, but also make it easier for them to a) lose the kid, b) the kid gets grabbed before they can stop it.

Is the kid's school in Manhattan, a la Trinity? Or uptown on a more private campus setting, a la Horace Mann? A school where there is a culture of many kids arriving by limo, a la Columbia Grammar & Prep, more stress on social responsibility, a la Fieldston or Friends Seminary? Or more niche, like Lycée de Francais, or progressive, like Calhoun? Even though these are all wealthy schools filled with wealthy families, the cultures of these schools differ, which will influence who kiddo meets and hangs with, where he'll hang, and what the norms are.

ironmikezero
07-01-2019, 12:10 AM
Don't underestimate teenagers; even the most seemingly naive are likely far more aware than most people might suspect.

From a professional perspective, it's impossible to establish and maintain an effective security detail for an individual without some level of cooperation from the protectee. It's all about situational awareness 24/7 and proactive planning--there really are no short cuts.

Some security details, while appearing to be subtle, are rather deliberately obvious (show of strength as a deterrent) especially when expected. On the other hand, even low-key, covert security details are rarely invisible, especially to the trained eye. To expect a teen-aged protectee to remain so uncharacteristically oblivious strains any level of credulity. I'd recommend rethinking that aspect.

Elle.
07-01-2019, 12:17 AM
The MC could have a microchip tracker implanted subdermal in the teenager's arm or shoulder unbeknown to him. That way he could at anytime where he is without having physical surveillance around 24/7. I addition the MC could have a bodyguard employed at the teenager's school posing as a janitor or a teacher to keep and eye on him there.

cornflake
07-01-2019, 01:40 AM
A tracking chip (which may or may not exist in reality, just btw, especially outside of governmental agencies), only lets you know where the chip is. It doesn't prevent anyone from being abducted, harmed, or anything else, especially if the people who want the person in question know this technology exists and is obtainable in the world you're operating in.

You can't bodyguard from afar -- either as a janitor or by following someone down the street, especially in NYC where there are people and crowds. You want to protect someone you think might be grabbed, you have to be close enough to put your hands on them, at all times. There's no way a kid doesn't know that's happening.

If you can do something besides a bodyguard, then maybe, but realistically, if you have a character who is in danger of being kidnapped and someone who wants to prevent it ... you need to guard the person or keep them under serious lock and key. A doorman building isn't useful either. Doormen vary, but even places that have "high" security, as a residential bldg, want you to sign a book (and if you're carrying food, or dry cleaning, or boxes, or groceries, or etc., they don't). An office bldg might ask to see ID but that's no barrier to anything, and I've never, ever been in a residential bldg that did (not that it'd be useful regardless, just saying).

Even if, as ap notes, it's a kid who takes a car to school or back, they're walking around, they're getting on a train or in a yellow cab or an uber. I have never met a kid who didn't. Ever. I have known very wealthy kids, kids whose parents are well-known in some world. Even if they've got a dedicated car they're not always going to get in it -- they will be walking alone or with friends. You don't get in a car to go get pizza or coffee or do whatever. Also, if a parent or guardian insisted on never going anyplace, ever, except in the car, kid would definitely know something was weird about that.

Kjbartolotta
07-01-2019, 01:57 AM
Hmm. I keep circling back to the 'discrete bodyguard' idea, but there's really no way you can do it without blowing your cover, is there? Argh, it would be so much easier to do this in LA! Manhattan, it requires almost Truman Show levels of omnipresence. Even with a tracking device or something.

To some extent, it's not about the kid living a normal life as the MC convincing them the life they're living is normal. Sure, they've got all those cool tutors hanging around them all day, but what kid wouldn't want a Krav Maga instructor who takes them to get Chinese food (and is also their piano instructor)? It seems like a matter of intricately structuring the kid's existence in such a way that the seams don't show, ultimately impossible but interesting storytelling in the process.

frimble3
07-01-2019, 04:18 AM
Sent the kid to the kind of schools favoured by the incredibly rich or criminal, and let everyone else's security take up some of the slack? Heck, with mobsters, you might even get a police presence on campus. Same with apartment buildings. And, if everyone has a security detail and a driver, it'll feel normal.

But, most of this depends on the teen involved. If you have an alert, questioning lad, who wants to be out and doing, you've got a problem.

If you get a kid like me: bookish, watches a lot of TV, doesn't really want to go anywhere, school/home/part-time job, easy-peasy. The security folk probably beg kid to go out, just so they can see daylight.
This would work nicely for a modern teen who just wants to sit and play video games.
Particularly these days, when I imagine anything can be delivered.

As to the less-than-ideal doormen - the MC hires the doorman to suit his needs. As long as he acts as a doorman for the rest of the building, and pays for the guys himself, who's going to complain. For that matter, keep the regular doorman, just have a back-up security guard standing behind him. Everybody feels safe.

lonestarlibrarian
07-01-2019, 05:00 AM
Usually in the stories I've read where kidnapping is a threat, the adult deliberately leads a very mobile lifestyle to make themselves difficult to track; constantly disrupt their own routines; use assumed names; and things like that. So they lead a completely normal life-- in the midst of change, and change is normal. And at this moment, perhaps they're living in Manhattan, but last year, they were off in the Rockies, and next year, they might be down in the Florida Keys. And the kid enjoys having his "horizons broadened" by seeing so much of the country, rather than just being stuck in one place, and it's just as normal for him to lack roots as it is for, say, a military kid.

In one story I remember, there was a mobster parent with a daughter, X. He had X raised by someone else, under a different name, so that his enemies couldn't use her to get to him. He supported her very lavishly, and she always thought of him as her generous Uncle Y. He never revealed his true identity to her, because the secret was more important than her knowing the exact nature of their relationship.

Homeschooling is normal. Digital schooling is normal. Private schooling is normal. Public schooling would probably work as well, especially with heightened security these days. Even in small, rural schools, you can't even get into the front door without buzzing the intercom and having the secretary buzz you in. Then you can't get past the vestibule without them buzzing you in even further.

re: the bodyguard, if "money is no object", the kid is probably familiar with families who have domestic help of some sort. The teen will be aware that little kids have nannies or au pairs; it makes sense to have Uncle X to help out around the house, as sort of a tutor/personal assistant/domestic caregiver, keeping things running around the house when the guardian is too busy with whatever to worry about making the household run.

jclarkdawe
07-01-2019, 05:17 AM
Money is no object.

Money is always an object. Even if you're uber rich, you don't waste money. Or soon you'll be uber poor.

A bodyguard, 24/7, at $20.00 an hour, would cost you $175,000 per year. And the quality of bodyguards hired for $20 an hour would make me nervous, as well as easy to bribe. A private school is a hell of a lot cheaper.

But there's more then just the risk factor here. You've got that sort of money and you're going to send your kid to New York public schools? Hell, you'd probably be charged with child abuse. And any of the kids are at some level of risk of kidnapping for ransom. Take a look at John Paul Getty III. And guardian would also be at risk of being kidnapped or hurt by his enemies. (If they're going to attack the kid, they're going to attack the guardian.)

The kid is going to be aware of guardian's security in all likelihood. A private school, although low key, has a lot of emphasis on security, as well as preparing the kid for the elite colleges. It isn't really the kid noticing the protection, it's developing a cohesive, cost-effective yet secure security system that also recognizes the kid's education and social needs.

Jim Clark-Dawe

cornflake
07-01-2019, 05:22 AM
The doorman is honestly a red herring - that's not something going to help anything, even if there is a security guard standing there. The most secure you can probably get residential and they're not alone in the bldg is a bldg with very few apts per floor or single ones. That way the elevator is likely keyed. However, while that's more secure, it's not going to stop someone who wants to get in. Get to one floor and get to another a different way, or get to one apartment on the relevant floor. No doorman or entry guard is going to stop that in time.

If they're in a brownstone, it's both more secure and less. You can put alarms all over the place, but it's got a ton more ways to get in off the street (and if you want to grab someone and go and have a plan or even knowledge of systems used for that purpose, no barrier really) and people in and out and buzzing, especially that a kid won't think anything of if they're not briefed on stuff that'd tip them off.

It is very close to impossible to stop someone who is baseline smart about it and utterly dedicated to getting at a person. You need an organization and even then you're at risk. That's just the way it is. You can make it very hard, but without the person knowing, I can't see it, personally. There are some kids at schools who have security, but it's very rare (this is not a celebrity thing save special circumstance, like actual threats or some giant news thing going on, [most celeb kids just go to school like totally regular; there are a shitton of celebrities in NYC. They just live here like anyone else, for the most part.] and def not a mob thing, mobsters live in their communities like regular people -- it's a diplomatic thing) and it's a person, and that person will absolutely, 100%, not give a nanosecond's thought to another kid in the school if something started or they sensed a threat. They'll grab their kid and move.

Schools are secure, but kids go in and out of them. As ap notes, part of this depends what school -- there's less to do right there if you walk out the door of Riverdale than Dalton -- but we're back to lock and key. If you want to keep someone inside in perpetuity you're better off but if not...kid is gonna notice a perpetual adult shadow.

ap123
07-01-2019, 05:34 AM
Sent the kid to the kind of schools favoured by the incredibly rich or criminal, and let everyone else's security take up some of the slack? Heck, with mobsters, you might even get a police presence on campus. Same with apartment buildings. And, if everyone has a security detail and a driver, it'll feel normal.

But, most of this depends on the teen involved. If you have an alert, questioning lad, who wants to be out and doing, you've got a problem.

If you get a kid like me: bookish, watches a lot of TV, doesn't really want to go anywhere, school/home/part-time job, easy-peasy. The security folk probably beg kid to go out, just so they can see daylight.
This would work nicely for a modern teen who just wants to sit and play video games.
Particularly these days, when I imagine anything can be delivered.

As to the less-than-ideal doormen - the MC hires the doorman to suit his needs. As long as he acts as a doorman for the rest of the building, and pays for the guys himself, who's going to complain. For that matter, keep the regular doorman, just have a back-up security guard standing behind him. Everybody feels safe.

That's...not how Manhattan apartment buildings work, and anyone who's ever lived here would not be able to suspend disbelief. Everyone would not feel safe to have a non-union and as far as they know not bonded doorman/security. Full service buildings have large staff, in all apartment buildings (large or small, co-op, rental, or condo) all employees are union, until/unless they're management. Full service buildings have doormen and a concierge 24/7 (the concierge is also watching video screens showing all elevators, basement, garage if there is one, delivery entrance, laundry rooms, gym, conference room, playroom, etc (these are common areas for all residents) building manager who lives there, porters, handymen, and yes, some have built in security.

(yes, everything in NY is deliverable, always has been)

Schools have their own security.

If these are true money is no object people, NYC Public Schools would not be considered an option, including those few excellent ones. And there'd definitely be no shenanigans from private security details in a public school, the school safety agents are a division of NYPD, and most high schools have metal detectors everyone is funneled through.

OP, you can do this, you just need to learn a bit about the obscenely wealthy in NY ;)

Sage
07-01-2019, 05:58 AM
My characters live in a doorman building in present-day Manhattan & sometimes weekend in the country. My MC is guardian of a young boy (age 14 or 15) who is under an ongoing threat of kidnapping by the MC's enemies. MC wants the boy to live a completely normal life. The boy does not know he is in any danger.

Without revealing the threat to the boy (which would inevitably raise awkward questions like "why?" he would rather avoid), what steps can my MC take to protect him?

Money is no object.

Hire an attractive girl (or boy) who is trained in protection to show interest in the boy and eventually become his girl(or boy)friend. Boy believes he has normal life, avoids the question of why, and it's logical that they would spend a lot of time outside of the secure building together. Inside the building (which maybe the MC pays for teen-bodyguard to live in too, to make transition from home to outside more secure), MC hires some sort of housekeeper or butler or in-home tutor who can protect the boy while at home. Person comes to "take care of the family" while in the country too, or another employee can meet them there.

Creates lots of potential conflict when the truth comes out, but stays discreet for the boy, at least in the short-term.

benbenberi
07-01-2019, 06:20 PM
Thanks everybody for super-helpful responses!



Is the kid's school in Manhattan, a la Trinity? Or uptown on a more private campus setting, a la Horace Mann? A school where there is a culture of many kids arriving by limo, a la Columbia Grammar & Prep, more stress on social responsibility, a la Fieldston or Friends Seminary? Or more niche, like Lycée de Francais, or progressive, like Calhoun? Even though these are all wealthy schools filled with wealthy families, the cultures of these schools differ, which will influence who kiddo meets and hangs with, where he'll hang, and what the norms are.

I haven't decided which school he should be attending yet. Maybe you can help me choose?

For context: the boy in question is a Lost Prince (from a primitive fantasy kingdom), and my MC is the guy whose job is to make sure the Lost Prince stays lost without getting dead. His strategy includes cultural assimilation into NY rich-kid life, such that he becomes dependent on modern comforts & conveniences (so, no camping trips or Boy Scouts, but unlimited screen time & video games) & also NOT promoting any multicultural horizon-broadening that might prepare him for any hypothetical return to the Old Country (no particular emphasis on foreign languages, foreign study, cultural exchange, etc.). But my MC himself has a high social-responsibility quotient and wants to encourage a sound moral/ethical/responsible foundation for the boy. The intended next step is the Ivy League, with hopes for a career in finance, law or technology -- good careers, in other words, that are entirely untransferable to a primitive fantasy kingdom.

So -- what school to send the boy to? I have been considering Trinity, Dalton, Regis or Collegiate, mainly from brand recognition. (Religion is not a deal-breaker. They will live somewhere within close walking distance of the chosen school.) Which one do you think is a winner?

ap123
07-01-2019, 06:47 PM
ALL these schools have multicultural horizon broadening/language/semesters/service trips, for somewhat different reasons, but remember, these schools (except Regis, which I will explain below) are ALL designed for the uber wealthy, to prepare them for continuing lives in the privileged class, which includes well traveled and multilingual. They're also pretty much all focused on their kids going to Ivies or the equivalent (UChicago, Amherst, Williams, etc) I'd go with modeling on Trinity. It's a top school academically, with enough of a mix of families that believe in social responsibility and families that are just coasting to living off the trust fund interest that you can manipulate it how you need to for the story. Trinity is also a nice choice bc they can live in one of the grand old buildings on Central Park West. Facing the park leaves interesting openings for both bad guys and MC slipping away. Many great building choices, a few: The Dakota, CPW and 72nd (people associate this one with John Lennon, I think Yoko still lives there), about 20 blocks from Trinity, very walkable. The Eldorado, CPW and...90th, maybe, just a couple blocks from Trinity, the San Remo is another great one (Bono did live there, not sure if he still does, Madonna was rejected by the co-op board--these are all co-op apt buildings, so you'll need to learn a bit about how they work).

Regis is different. It's a Catholic school, students must be Catholic, having been baptized, made their communion, and confirmation in the Catholic Church, parents married in the Catholic Church. It's for truly top, academic minded Catholic boys, tuition is free, mostly working/middle class students.

benbenberi
07-01-2019, 06:53 PM
That explains why all the families I know who've considered sending kids to Regis are actively Catholic.

As for co-ops... I've heard stories about co-op nightmares... :Headbang: Fortunately, not part of MY story!

ap123
07-01-2019, 07:17 PM
That explains why all the families I know who've considered sending kids to Regis are actively Catholic.

As for co-ops... I've heard stories about co-op nightmares... :Headbang: Fortunately, not part of MY story!

Most of the Catholic schools of the level we're talking about take kids or families who aren't so Catholic, or Catholic at all (Loyola, Marymount, etc) as long as families are good with/accepting the religion and traditions are a part of the school. Even Fordham Prep (not quite the same caliber, but solid) which used to be a strict Jesuit education now accepts kids of different faiths.

Yeah, co-ops are their own special breed. They often suck to deal with irl, but make for great little plot twists/hampering of characters.

cornflake
07-01-2019, 07:32 PM
You do though, if you attend a Catholic school, have to participate in the Catholic stuff. They won't force you to take communion, but you're going to mass, on spiritual retreats, you take four years of religion class, etc.

I tweaked on the foreign language/cultural stuff not important too. Every school of this caliber requires you take a foreign language, there's lots and lots of multicultural/cultural exchange stuff, most kids do travel abroad with the class and alone with exchange student swaps (they're not the whole-year kind, it's like a month), etc.

Also yeah, Yoko is still there, heh.

angeliz2k
07-02-2019, 04:53 PM
I'm a little puzzled by the idea that, somehow, preventing Secretly Otherworldly Teen from participating in multicultural things will prevent him from going back, or wanting to go back, or being dragged back to the Other World. I'm not sure the guardian's resistance to Teen's immersion in different cultures is logical. If anything, the guardian should be thinking that there's a chance, however slight and however much he doesn't like it, that Teen will have to go back and adapt to a very different world. So trying to keep the kid from being multicultural in our world seems destructive and illogical . . . and also really, really hard in NYC. How are you going to keep the kid from experiencing many different cultures there, of all places?

Or maybe I misunderstood something and you don't quite mean what I think you mean. In that case, ignore me.

Tazlima
07-02-2019, 05:32 PM
Hire an attractive girl (or boy) who is trained in protection to show interest in the boy and eventually become his girl(or boy)friend. Boy believes he has normal life, avoids the question of why, and it's logical that they would spend a lot of time outside of the secure building together. Inside the building (which maybe the MC pays for teen-bodyguard to live in too, to make transition from home to outside more secure), MC hires some sort of housekeeper or butler or in-home tutor who can protect the boy while at home. Person comes to "take care of the family" while in the country too, or another employee can meet them there.

Creates lots of potential conflict when the truth comes out, but stays discreet for the boy, at least in the short-term.

I was thinking something along these lines, only with an "exchange student" (baby-faced bodyguard) that the kid is tasked with escorting everywhere. That way, romance is optional.

lonestarlibrarian
07-02-2019, 06:08 PM
So, if I'm reading it correctly, the Guardian is a Bad Guy; the boy is a Lost Prince who can't be killed for Plot Reasons; but that doesn't keep the Bad Guys from wanting to ruin him for any future leadership role? And so their idea is to ruin the Lost Prince by turning him into a stereotypical self-centered nose-buried-in-electronics kid afflicted by affluenza? So that even if his supporters ever find him, he'll be so uninterested in his backwards kingdom that he'll be a terrible ruler because he hasn't been appropriately prepared? And his tastes have been cultivated to make him prefer/depend on everything that his world isn't?

And he has an (underling?) who is tasked with the kid's 24-hour monitoring?

If the kid has no memories of being a Lost Prince, either his memory was wiped or he was kidnapped very young. So whatever the guy has chosen for his upbringing will be perceived as "normal."

Why not structure a pretend family? The guardian gets to be the bad guy; he has an adult female compadre who plays the wife; and perhaps there's one or two "big brothers" hanging around as well, with perhaps a "best friend" who pops in on a frequent basis and at school and whose presence gets taken for granted. That way, the monitoring gets split multiple ways instead of resting on one individual. If he gets annoyed or upset with one person, they're not really obvious when he takes a break. And anyone who grew up in a house with multiple siblings would know that privacy is a privilege that you don't achieve until you move out on your own/go off to college! :)

Except it's normal. :)

benbenberi
07-02-2019, 11:35 PM
So, if I'm reading it correctly, the Guardian is a Bad Guy; the boy is a Lost Prince who can't be killed for Plot Reasons; but that doesn't keep the Bad Guys from wanting to ruin him for any future leadership role? And so their idea is to ruin the Lost Prince by turning him into a stereotypical self-centered nose-buried-in-electronics kid afflicted by affluenza? So that even if his supporters ever find him, he'll be so uninterested in his backwards kingdom that he'll be a terrible ruler because he hasn't been appropriately prepared? And his tastes have been cultivated to make him prefer/depend on everything that his world isn't?

Pretty much -- the MC's idea is that a boy raised as a modern electronics-dependent affluenza kid will not be interested in spending his life as a Bronze Age warlord & will be obviously unsuitable for it, should anyone try to make him. It's obviously not an especially good or foolproof plan, but in my MC's defense it was the best he could come up with in a hurry when his side was ready to murder a toddler in cold blood. It's worked so far mainly because the other side has no idea where they are or how to get there, & the kid was young enough he doesn't really remember anything of his true origin. But eventually... Story Must Happen.

lonestarlibrarian
07-03-2019, 12:58 AM
That's a very cool premise! :) I'm sure you'll have a great time with it!

angeliz2k
07-03-2019, 04:34 PM
Aha! That makes a lot more sense, that the kidnapper doesn't really have Kiddo's best interests at heart.

Though, there might be some parallels between privilege in 21st-century Manhattan and in the technologically-different alternate-world, so maybe Teen wouldn't be *quite* as uncomfortable in the other world as the kidnapper might think. Not exactly a major flaw or a major plot point, but something that the kidnapper might think about.

So you mention it was the best that could be done on short notice. It's been probably 10-15 years, so presumably this is a no-going-back kind of deal? If the spur-of-the-moment decision wasn't too great, he's had some time to do something different. Or does he feel that now he's on this path, he has to stick with it? Just another thought.

I, too, like the premise. :)

cornflake
07-03-2019, 06:58 PM
Not for nothing, but I'd keep him away from video games, some of which might suggest that being a Bronze Age warlord is not only doable but fun! The Met isn't any help with that either.

frimble3
07-04-2019, 11:00 AM
Oooh, I really like this premise - the OP made it sound like the kid's guardian was some sort of a loon - this sounds like a kind and sensible choice.
Get the kid interested in something unsuitable for a ruler: the Arts! Music, painting, like that! (If the fantasy kingdom is landlocked - give him sailing classes, and scuba gear! Once you get a love for the water, it's hard to resist.)
In a Bronze Age tribe, there ain't much time for hobbies!