High Powered Agent versus More Personal One?

charles19 said:

Hi There:

I have recently written a book about spiritual / metaphysical subjects. I have extensive experience publishing magazine articles about such topics (if interested, please visit www.lightfigures.com for an online bibliography and links). So I have experience dealing with editors. But I have decided to get an agent rather than approach editors myself. I have been looking through lists of agents that may be interested in spiritual type subjects, and I have noticed that they work for agencies that are pretty high-powered. It all seems quite impersonal. There is a part of me that would prefer a relationship with an agent who may be less connected but with whom I can feel comfortable. I understand it is a business for both agent and publisher. But it is partly the nature of my writing (spiritual) and my personality that would prefer a more personable approach. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts about that.

Thanks,

-Charles

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Why do you think you wouldn't be comfortable, or that a relationship with an agent at a high-powered agency, would be impersonal?

Hmm, I think I might have an idea of what the OP means: Some literary agencies' websites, agents' bios and photos can seem very formal and stilted, as though designed and written like a law firm's website (e.g. dressed in suits), whereas other literary agencies' websites, agents' bios and photos seem a lot more friendly, creative and relaxed (because they use more variety of bright colors, use clients' illustrations, the agents are wearing more casual clothes and not suits, etc.)

So, perhaps, for some writers and/or illustrators who are more comfortable and used to being surrounded by other "creatives" who don't wear suits for their jobs, they might find agents who wear suits intimidating or perhaps get an uneasy feeling that they might not get along with each other.

The suit/no suit stuff is kinda superficial.

The only way to find out if an agent shares your vision for your work is to query them and go from there.

Helix said:

The suit/no suit stuff is kinda superficial.

The only way to find out if an agent shares your vision for your work is to query them and go from there.

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+1. It's a business, so suit/no suit is probably a bad prism to be looking through. Research first, query second, and leave the more ephemeral concerns till you have a few offers to decide between would be my advice.

Eh, yes, of course, judging by appearances (like skin color and clothing) is superficial, but according to scientists, all humans do that within a split second of seeing a person, in order to figure out whether or not they'd relate to them, want to date them, do business with them, etc., that it unconsciously happens in the mind.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/subliminal/201206/how-we-are-judged-our-appearance

For example, people definitely judge others based on race and look down on homeless people who may not be as well-dressed as people in suits. It's the reason why wealthier people don't want to live around lower-class people. Maybe it has to do with socioeconomics or that this is more prevalent in the U.S., where lower-class and students from higher socioeconomic standing are more aware of how different they are from each other; in schools I went to, most students self-segregated themselves based on race and socioeconomic standing (they didn't eat at lunch tables with each other or talk to them outside of class because they obviously felt they couldn't relate to each other, due to growing up having different life experiences). Lower-class students at universities have said that it is difficult to feel welcomed, comfortable being surrounded by so many students from wealthier families, who wear more expensive clothes; talk about all the trips they and their families went on, visiting countries abroad, etc.

Gee, I hope my post didn't make me come across in a bad way, as though I'm a snob. I didn't say that anyone should only judge agents through their appearance, only that I was trying to understand and explain what the OP might've meant, in order to help others understand, as Cornflake seemed confused. I grew up going to lower-income schools, with mostly POC, and, even though I wanted to make friends with the popular kids who were wealthy, they didn't care to be my friend or talk to me, and I couldn't relate to all of the hobbies they were able to do and the places their families would go to, even if I wanted to, due to our class differences.

It seemed to me class differences would matter, too, when choosing an agent because, on their Twitter accounts, they discuss their favorite T.V. shows (many seem to be cable T.V. shows, which I mostly didn't grow up having or watching, as my parents couldn't afford it), places they've traveled (which, again, my parents couldn't afford to travel abroad or across the country for vacation), the university they attended (most Americans in the U.S. don't have a bachelor's degree).

So, it'd probably matter in whether or not they'd be able to understand and relate to writers and their work about characters from lower-class backgrounds, different racial background, etc. Lower-class POC have mentioned that, when they tried sharing their work about these things in college workshops, the white, wealthier students and professors would say that they didn't understand what the point of their work was, why they were bringing up race, and advised them that they needed to change their work. I wouldn't want an agent to not understand me or my work and try to claim that it's "bad" and should be changed just because they didn't grow up having certain things happen to them that lower-income people have experienced.

All I thought the OP was bringing up was the fact that, for some people, it really is difficult to try and be friends or interact in business with someone who's a lot wealthier, when their life is a lot better, their family is nicer, they're able to afford to do a lot more things, etc. because there's not much you can say to each other, due to your lives being different, due to your differing socioeconomic class: they can't relate to you and vice versa, which, I thought, does matter a lot when trying to choose an agent, in order to make sure they understand you and your work.

novicewriter said:

Gee, I hope my post didn't make me come across in a bad way, as though I'm a snob.

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No, of course it didn't . I can't speak for Helix, but my point was just that it might be too early in the process to cut out half the available agents. Researching agents is very important, and choosing one you are comfortable with is also very important - but it's also important to remember that these are businesses, and you want them to work as businesses. One needs to be very cautious about the "We're like a big family, supporting each others books" approach. That can often be a clue that you're dealing with an inexperienced or even duplicitous business model.

novicewriter said:

Eh, yes, of course, judging by appearances (like skin color and clothing) is superficial, but according to scientists, all humans do that within a split second of seeing a person, in order to figure out whether or not they'd relate to them, want to date them, do business with them, etc., that it unconsciously happens in the mind.

What scientists say that? Also, all those things come from split-second judgments? Again, I'd like to see any backing for that claim.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/subliminal/201206/how-we-are-judged-our-appearance

For example, people definitely judge others based on race and look down on homeless people who may not be as well-dressed as people in suits. It's the reason why wealthier people don't want to live around lower-class people. Aside from the obvious attribution problem here, race and class are not interchangeable. Maybe it has to do with socioeconomics or that this is more prevalent in the U.S., where lower-class and students from higher socioeconomic standing are more aware of how different they are from each other; in schools I went to, most students self-segregated themselves based on race and socioeconomic standing (they didn't eat at lunch tables with each other or talk to them outside of class because they obviously felt they couldn't relate to each other, due to growing up having different life experiences). Lower-class students at universities have said that it is difficult to feel welcomed, comfortable being surrounded by so many students from wealthier families, who wear more expensive clothes; talk about all the trips they and their families went on, visiting countries abroad, etc. They have? This is again conflating race and class, but also presupposing most students at universities are from wealthy families, wear expensive clothes, etc.

Gee, I hope my post didn't make me come across in a bad way, as though I'm a snob. I didn't say that anyone should only judge agents through their appearance, only that I was trying to understand and explain what the OP might've meant, in order to help others understand, as Cornflake seemed confused. I still don't know why the OP feels that way -- neither do you, unless the OP has said something to you privately.
I grew up going to lower-income schools, with mostly POC, and, even though I wanted to make friends with the popular kids who were wealthy, they didn't care to be my friend or talk to me, and I couldn't relate to all of the hobbies they were able to do and the places their families would go to, even if I wanted to, due to our class differences. That's your experience; it's not necessarily everyone else's too.

It seemed to me class differences would matter, too, when choosing an agent because, on their Twitter accounts, they discuss their favorite T.V. shows (many seem to be cable T.V. shows, which I mostly didn't grow up having or watching, as my parents couldn't afford it), places they've traveled (which, again, my parents couldn't afford to travel abroad or across the country for vacation), the university they attended (most Americans in the U.S. don't have a bachelor's degree).

So, it'd probably matter in whether or not they'd be able to understand and relate to writers and their work about characters from lower-class backgrounds, different racial background, etc. Lower-class POC have mentioned that, when they tried sharing their work about these things in college workshops, the white, wealthier students and professors would say that they didn't understand what the point of their work was, why they were bringing up race, and advised them that they needed to change their work. I wouldn't want an agent to not understand me or my work and try to claim that it's "bad" and should be changed just because they didn't grow up having certain things happen to them that lower-income people have experienced. Again, who are these people saying these things? Also, that's a bad agent, who would be incapable of grasping any fiction different from their experience, or saying something was bad because it was outside their experience.

All I thought the OP was bringing up was the fact that, for some people, it really is difficult to try and be friends or interact in business with someone who's a lot wealthier, when their life is a lot better, their family is nicer, they're able to afford to do a lot more things, etc. because there's not much you can say to each other, due to your lives being different, due to your differing socioeconomic class: they can't relate to you and vice versa, which, I thought, does matter a lot when trying to choose an agent, in order to make sure they understand you and your work.

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Aside from the issues with 'nicer,' 'better,' etc., due to apparent wealth, this entire thing presupposes not just that the OP has the same outlook, but that agents in suits, or in high-end agencies are, by default, wealthy from birth.

This post is kind of filled with what seem like personal feelings extrapolated to the universal, without any backing.

Yes, people judge on appearances, but those judgments are based on a complex combination of factors. As well, different people are going to have different reactions, feelings, etc. Your experience is your experience, and the OP may indeed share your outlook, beliefs, etc., but saying stuff like people in general definitely do X, obviously do Y, yada, isn't likely to be correct.

how personal you find them will probably vary--it's something you have to assess in a call.

One person's "personable" will be another's standoffish, or clingy, etc.

Harlequin said:

how personal you find them will probably vary--it's something you have to assess in a call.

One person's "personable" will be another's standoffish, or clingy, etc.

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This. You really can't tell how you're going to get along with an agent from the size of the agency.

charles19 said:

...I was looking for something along the lines of warm and perhaps caring. But that would be an unreasonable expectation for what is in essence a business arrangement. I would settle for an encouraging attitude by believing my book worthy of publication...

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I don't know what genre you write in, but there's the Andrea Brown agency, if you write for children (e.g. MG and YA) and it's not already on your list. I like the sound and feel of them. I've read they're one of the top agencies. Writers who've meet their agents at conferences have said that they're very nice, knowledgeable and cheerfully answer writers' questions on Twitter, even though they're not clients and are looking to query them. They don't seem to have a history of scandals; they've made some six-figure deals for some of their clients. Not all of them feel a need to wear a blazer or suit, as they've mentioned the dress code and business culture in California is more lax, compared to NYC; their website isn't designed like a law firm's and seems to match their helpful vibe (So, overall, I find them more relatable and not as intimidating to query in the future).

If you're willing to put in the time, "stalk" your prospective agents on social media. There are a few agents who might not be on Twitter or Facebook, but in most cases, that's older, more successful agents who were already pretty well established prior to the rise of social media, and are kept sufficiently busy that they don't really benefit from being more accessible anyway. The vast majority of agents today are on social media though, so you can always track them down, look at their comments, see how they interact with others and get a feel for their disposition before approaching them.

Even then, that's still not something you should bet on, since someone with a low social media presence might, upon actual verbal interaction on the phone, be very warm, approachable and supportive, whereas someone else might be super-witty and funny on Twitter, but the second you talk to them on the phone you just know that you're not going to click.

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

There are agents in boutique agencies who represent spirituality writers. Some of these are hands-on. I'm not sure how you're finding agents to query, but do look into querytracker. If you sign up (which is free), you can search for agents dealing in specific genres, including spirituality.

Also: stilted business language doesn't necessarily mean stilted people.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

mccardey said:

One needs to be very cautious about the "We're like a big family, supporting each others books" approach. That can often be a clue that you're dealing with an inexperienced or even duplicitous business model.

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Or the person who talks about their family, hobbies and home life a lot. You don't want someone who spends their work hours on their home life, lest the day come when the excuses start: "I had family problems, so I didn't get this or that done." Everybody has that happen on occasion, but if it starts to be a regular occurrence, ie payments not made, etc. it's bad news for the future.

Occasionally this is accompanied by pleas like "You're my friend, you don't mind, do you?", or "You're such a great person, you understand!"

By wary of hobbyists, the inexperienced, and solo operators.

Helix said:

The suit/no suit stuff is kinda superficial.

The only way to find out if an agent shares your vision for your work is to query them and go from there.

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+100 to this.

It’s so very cart-before-the-horse to worry about this when you’re barely starting out. It’s like a high school football player worrying about which NFL team they’re going to sign with. You’ve got a few steps in-between here and there. Try not to worry so much about checkmating the king when the focus needs to be on where to move your first pawn.

In addition to the obvious things like overall sales, agency size and whether an agent represents your genre, there are so many other reasons we writers add an agent to our list. Maybe we see something on Twitter. Maybe they represent a favorite author. Or maybe we read an interview with them or an author they represent. For me, I didn’t even look at sales until I had a preliminary list based on other factors, and then only as an indicator that they had at least some record in my genre.

One thing I would be wary of early on is judging based solely on whether an agent is “high powered,” whatever that means to you. Smaller agencies can get clients huge deals, and larger agencies can offer lots of personal attention. You can gauge things like communication style and whether you “click” on the phone call when they offer representation.

charles19 said:

Thanks, but in a way, my feeling about this might reflect on how I look for an agent. If I just send out queries to any agent interested in my topic then you are absolutely right. I haven't made a decision on that yet.

-Charles

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Well of course you don’t send out queries to just any and all agents, and no one here suggested that you should. Step one is research—there’s a lot of good tips about that throughout this thread. Do your research first, then the following steps will be much clearer.

I have to say, suit/no suit is a really bizarre way of making a decision on who to query. I just googled a few agents who represent writers I know, and quite a few of them wear suits in their agency pictures...but I know for a fact that they're very warm and friendly and not at all formal with their clients. I really would not recommend judging agents by their attire.

Yes, my agent was perhaps forced to wear a suit for the company photo and then in Twitter said they did not in fact own a suit at all.

I think I know what you mean. Having read between the lines, I'm not sure I would want to be with some of the really "high powered" agencies out there. But I am with an agency in the top 20 (according to Publisher's Marketplace) and everything there is super personal. You can have the best of both worlds.