After a year of pitching on twitter and responding to MSWL listings I've come to realize that the agents actually hate me. There is no room for me there. So today, I have given up.
Today I gave up
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I wish I had the right words to make you reconsider. As many published authors here will tell you (traditional and indie) markets change constantly. I don't think it's fair to say that agents hate you specifically. Based on what I've read from other veterans of the trenches, a year querying is not unusual, but I'll let them speak from their own experiences.
Meanwhile, can you specify what you're giving up on? The manuscript or writing as a whole?
Meanwhile, can you specify what you're giving up on? The manuscript or writing as a whole?
I'm giving up on finding an agent. I think all in all I've spent 300-400 hours on queries, literally hundreds of rejections. The agents don't hate me specifically, but they've made it pretty clear that they'd rather work with just about anyone else. I'm seven manuscripts in. It's time to go it alone.
It's quite true that a year isn't long. Also that seven manuscripts can represent years of work, or have been completed in a relatively short time. If you haven't spent at least a year on each book, I would have to question whether this body of work represents long-term growth and change--i.e. you wrote the first book ten years ago, but you've only been querying the last two for a year--or whether you've been tossing manuscripts at the market like spaghetti to see if any of them stick.
Now, it's one thing to "go on your own" if your style doesn't click with the market, you like the idea of setting your own terms, handling your own sales, etc. But, if you've produced all seven manuscripts in, let's say, the last two to three years, and you're trying to market all seven, there's a good chance that you haven't given yourself enough time and practice to really develop as a writer, and that agents may be reacting to the same kinds of weak points in more than one manuscript.
As another point--it's not an easy market right now. Yes, books do get bought and sold. But even established authors can have trouble selling that third or fourth book. One of our members here has two books published traditionally and they've been successful--lovely covers, tons of good reviews, fans drooling to get copies. But, she hasn't been able to click with her publisher over another book, and so--no contract. It happens.
So take a deep breath, decide what you want your career to really look like--and then hash out a plan to take the next steps.
Now, it's one thing to "go on your own" if your style doesn't click with the market, you like the idea of setting your own terms, handling your own sales, etc. But, if you've produced all seven manuscripts in, let's say, the last two to three years, and you're trying to market all seven, there's a good chance that you haven't given yourself enough time and practice to really develop as a writer, and that agents may be reacting to the same kinds of weak points in more than one manuscript.
As another point--it's not an easy market right now. Yes, books do get bought and sold. But even established authors can have trouble selling that third or fourth book. One of our members here has two books published traditionally and they've been successful--lovely covers, tons of good reviews, fans drooling to get copies. But, she hasn't been able to click with her publisher over another book, and so--no contract. It happens.
So take a deep breath, decide what you want your career to really look like--and then hash out a plan to take the next steps.
Sending hugs and quiet envy that you've done seven books. Seven!! Go, you!
ETA: Presumably you've run your queries through QLH, or Miss Snark or something similar?
ETA: Presumably you've run your queries through QLH, or Miss Snark or something similar?
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Thanks and that's exactly what I've been doing. I've been writing for almost 20 years (with a few years break in the middle for a life-consuming master's degree). The growth is obvious to me. I can't stand to look back at mss 1-5. 6 was pretty good and 7th (the one I've been pitching) is easily the head and shoulders above anything I've done thus far. When I last checked I'd been querying Shards for about 18 months. War of Embers (ms 6 another 18 months before that). It's a phenomenal amount of time spent for no feedback of any kind.
I must admit I have become completely disillusioned with the agencies. Man when I first got started I was excited about getting an agent. Then things happened. I paid 600$ to get a conference membership so I could get a 30 minute sitdown with an agent. He got me pretty fired up. A few months later I'm trying to figure out why he's not responded to my emails and I first discover Twitter. What do I find? Posts from the agent about how he's dedicating his career to never publishing another white male. I started doing twitter searches on every agent on my spreadsheet. 1 in 4 of them overtly, openly, and often proudly, expressed similar goals to never take on another white male. Similar rhetoric without overt claims showed up in about half of the remaining agents on the list of those that had twitter accounts. Obviously lots of white male writers still get published but I gotta tell you it felt /bad/ to see how eager they were to find anyone else but me. It felt worse to see how holy and righteous they felt to tell me of it.
Above all it's been the stony silence. Around 150 queries and not one answer that wasn't a form reject. I've spent years trying to get into that inner circle only to arrive and find the gates are closed to me. Devastating to my morale. I see no way forward except to strike out on my own. I really love the craft, I love my characters, and I've gotten good feedback from other writers and a few decent reviews so I am hoping to make it on my own.
It is a heavy thing.
I must admit I have become completely disillusioned with the agencies. Man when I first got started I was excited about getting an agent. Then things happened. I paid 600$ to get a conference membership so I could get a 30 minute sitdown with an agent. He got me pretty fired up. A few months later I'm trying to figure out why he's not responded to my emails and I first discover Twitter. What do I find? Posts from the agent about how he's dedicating his career to never publishing another white male. I started doing twitter searches on every agent on my spreadsheet. 1 in 4 of them overtly, openly, and often proudly, expressed similar goals to never take on another white male. Similar rhetoric without overt claims showed up in about half of the remaining agents on the list of those that had twitter accounts. Obviously lots of white male writers still get published but I gotta tell you it felt /bad/ to see how eager they were to find anyone else but me. It felt worse to see how holy and righteous they felt to tell me of it.
Above all it's been the stony silence. Around 150 queries and not one answer that wasn't a form reject. I've spent years trying to get into that inner circle only to arrive and find the gates are closed to me. Devastating to my morale. I see no way forward except to strike out on my own. I really love the craft, I love my characters, and I've gotten good feedback from other writers and a few decent reviews so I am hoping to make it on my own.
It is a heavy thing.
Thank you, I've run it through a few things and taken two college courses on it from a 20-times published mystery writer. I've tried maybe a dozen different takes on the query letter, alas no result. I harbor some suspicion that my dragon protagonist is a problem, but I've gotten no feedback beyond the above unpleasant issues.
Query styles change from time to time. Have you had a look at QLH here, in the Share Your Work area? (password: vista) If you're getting no feedback at all on your query, then it's the query that's at fault - which should go some way to soothing your concerns about a generalised anti-male-bias in publishing.
I'm afraid there's not much soothing to be done there. The tweets were VERY unambiguous lol It's not the primary reason I've decided to go solo but it was a shocking thing to encounter as wide-spread as I found it. I've done some digging around in QLH. There are certainly some good lessons there.
The biggest thing contributing to me wanting to go solo is simply the feeling of wasted time. In all the time I spent in classes on query letters, rewriting my query letters a dozen times each, tailoring emails, hunting down agents I'd not talked to yet, and more, I felt like I probably could've finished another manuscript or perhaps even two.
While anecdotal I also found that one of the agents that had rejected me had gone on to get a book of their own published and I had released a self-published title the same week as him. 8 months later the agent's book is ranked around 1,000,000th place and my test book is far outperforming that. I guess it has me thinking that if he can't get his own pet project off the ground, why would I trust my manuscript into those hands?
I guess after the last 8 years of REALLY dedicating myself to this I'm just ready for a change. Anything to break up the pattern of stacking up manuscripts and thinking maybe if I put everything onhold another two years I might get picked up next time.
Plus I'm really proud of these little guys and want to share them with people:
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Good luck to you and remember, just because you give up on agents doesn't mean you have to give up being published.
I'm not gonna tell you to keep going or whatever because that's a decision only an individual can make. Everyone has a breaking point. Some people can query for decades upon decades upon decades while others have to move on at some point. As long as you listen to your heart, then you'll always make the right decision. Giving up on one avenue doesn't mean that's the end. There is more than one way to get your book published and spending years looking for agents and pubs isn't the best plan for every writer.
I started writing about 20 years ago and it took me ten years to land a big publisher. Back then that was the only real shot at selling books. Had I been starting out today I'd go straight to self-publishing. So much has changed and trade publishing is no longer an interest of mine plus this day and age I don't feel it's an avenue I need to take. I am indie now and it has worked better for me than my trade career.
Everyone's journey is different but I admire anyone in 2018 who is still fighting the query fight because it's not easy and I couldn't see myself doing it now that there are other viable choices. Plus, with the genres I write, self-publishing is a great choice.
Trust your gut and it'll lead you in the right direction. Congrats on querying a year. It might be shorter than the amount of time some query but dedicating a year is commendable when some folks don't last a few months querying.
I'm not gonna tell you to keep going or whatever because that's a decision only an individual can make. Everyone has a breaking point. Some people can query for decades upon decades upon decades while others have to move on at some point. As long as you listen to your heart, then you'll always make the right decision. Giving up on one avenue doesn't mean that's the end. There is more than one way to get your book published and spending years looking for agents and pubs isn't the best plan for every writer.
I started writing about 20 years ago and it took me ten years to land a big publisher. Back then that was the only real shot at selling books. Had I been starting out today I'd go straight to self-publishing. So much has changed and trade publishing is no longer an interest of mine plus this day and age I don't feel it's an avenue I need to take. I am indie now and it has worked better for me than my trade career.
Everyone's journey is different but I admire anyone in 2018 who is still fighting the query fight because it's not easy and I couldn't see myself doing it now that there are other viable choices. Plus, with the genres I write, self-publishing is a great choice.
Trust your gut and it'll lead you in the right direction. Congrats on querying a year. It might be shorter than the amount of time some query but dedicating a year is commendable when some folks don't last a few months querying.
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I saw dragon protagonist. I think paranormal (if that's you) is kind of a small market at the moment. Other things are more the current rage compared to back in the "Twilight" days. That said, it does have an audience out there, so maybe indie publishing? Congrats on creating a manuscript you are really proud of and have worked so hard on.
Many of us have been told directly that we will not succeed in our goal because of some trait that should have no bearing, be it gender, race, age, or sexual orientation.
It sucks. It really does, and I'm sorry to hear that this is directed at any body, anywhere. I look forward to seeing your books in print in an independent form. If you decide to query more, I wish you the best of luck.
Yes, but imagine how it's felt for the last couple of centuries to be told that the public doesn't want to read books by women. Or people of colour. Or that the market for <insert non-mainstream culture here> is over because there were two books last year about that. I think agents deciding they might force themselves outside the box for a year or so is an excellent thing. They won't all do it at once, and it won't be for long - but if they keep only reading the same-old same-old, so many voices just won't ever get a chance to be heard.
yeah, it all does suck. But you will keep trying in some form. A writer saying "I give up" is like a freshman saying "I'll never drink again" the day after a party or a single woman who swears off men forever after a breakup.
Hey, if you like, come hang out with the self-publishers. We have our own subforum and everything. And nobody really cares what color, sex, etc. you are there. It's just whether or not you can write stuff that people like to read--and of course, learn how to get your work in front of the right readers, which is the real trick. And cozies have done well in the SP world, if that sort of thing interests you. Just a thought. 
Did you get requests in response to your queries? If not, the problem is likely the query. That doesn't mean that the mss. if perfect, but it means that if you're query failed than the thing to do is work on your query.
You might think about picking your best ms. and running the query through QLH, even if you take a break now.
Alternatively, if you're going to self-publish, use the excellent advice from experienced self-publishers, to give your books the best opportunity possible.
Ah-yup, that's time in the trenches.
Sorry to have questioned you on it, but it's amazing what some people will actually do in trying to write and sell a lot of work in a short, short time. As someone who is also taking the first steps to launch into self-publishing, I hear you. It's a big jump. Certainly, it's not the way to quick money. What you may find, however, is that there is a real enjoyable side to being in control of your own work, covers, design, publicity, etc. No, you don't have the same budget, or the same prestige. On the other hand, you never get stuck with a cover you hate, or have your book marketed in the wrong category. (Both of which have happened to people here.)
Another thing: you talk about working so hard to land an agent. But, have you considered querying smaller and independent presses directly? This is a whole different field, and it takes a lot of work to educate yourself in it--and, a lot of research to make sure the publisher's business is healthy and likely to stay that way. However, if you like the idea of having a team in your corner, and someone to help you handle the business details, you may actually be happier with a small press; even without a big advance to earn out.
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Phew, $600 conference money! That's two manuscript assessments at top dollar.
If you can get an assessment at this stage of your career, and are willing to take the hits on the chin, it could be what you need.
Now you'll see how using Twitter can be super important in researching agents, but I wouldn't rely on MSWL very much.
One of the things that do hold fairly true, is you will struggle with a non-human protagonist unless you're writing Middle Grade
If you can get an assessment at this stage of your career, and are willing to take the hits on the chin, it could be what you need.
Now you'll see how using Twitter can be super important in researching agents, but I wouldn't rely on MSWL very much.
One of the things that do hold fairly true, is you will struggle with a non-human protagonist unless you're writing Middle Grade
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I don't think that's right. Not to derail, but if we're talking about editorial assessments, a person who really knows her stuff will be pretty pricey. Betas are free. (Good betas are worth their weight in gold.)
ETA: I don't get this thing of paying to go to conferences in order to pitch. Has that ever worked out for anyone here*? Wouldn't it just be a test of how good are at I dunno pitching? (For the record, I'd be hopeless - though I can knock out a kick-arse synopsis in under an hour. )
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What pitching at a conference gets you is the right to submit a full or a partial.
Which you can get without pitching.
Which you can get without pitching.
I can't say for the rest of the world but there are a few writing festivals in the UK where people can get one-tone with agents (submit a synopsis and 3K or 5K) and get some feedback and invitation to submit your full MS. A few known writers have met their future agents at those festivals. I think the face to face meeting and the ability to sit down can help create a connection but of course it means nothing if you haven't got strong material but compared to pitching events you can get some meaningful feedback on your opening and writing.
Thanks - I'd be so hopeless at that. I'd be asking after their chickens and trying to avoid talking about books. Also blushing and stammering, with a threat of tears.
That's odd. I'm very into Twitter, follow a ton of agents, and I haven't seen anyone saying they wouldn't take a white male client. What I have seen is agents talking about trying to find diversity and own-voices because there isn't enough of it. That's wildly different from refusing to accept white men as clients. And since white men are still published in greater numbers than any other demographic, you can't legitimately use "agents don't want my work because I'm a white man" as an excuse.
That's the good news and the bad news in one package, because what getting those rejections really means is that you haven't written something that appeals to those agents—and that's all it means. That sucks for what you've queried so far, but it should also give you hope that you can still write something that can get an agent if that's what you want.
Another point: if you want feedback, don't expect it from agents, that's not their job. You get feedback from writers' groups (in person or online), beta readers, or critique partners. If you haven't tried that yet, you're really missing out on the best ways to improve your writing.
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I spent about 10 years writing and rewriting the same manuscript in the hopes that I'd get agent and completely killed any love I had for writing, period. Some writer friends suggested I take a break from that ms and work on something fun. Well, that fun project ended up being my debut indie novel.
I'd hit my breaking point, too. Due to health reasons, trad publishing deadlines would be an issue, so while I'd originally wanted to go trad, I decided that the best way for me is indie. I'm a huge fan of whatever gets the story out there, so if you're thinking indie, fantastic. Although I should point out that writing full time is not on the table for me (again, health reasons). I've made peace with it.
I've been indie for almost 9 years and I haven't regretted any of it.
I'd hit my breaking point, too. Due to health reasons, trad publishing deadlines would be an issue, so while I'd originally wanted to go trad, I decided that the best way for me is indie. I'm a huge fan of whatever gets the story out there, so if you're thinking indie, fantastic.
Although I should point out that writing full time is not on the table for me (again, health reasons). I've made peace with it.I've been indie for almost 9 years and I haven't regretted any of it.
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