Teens And Mental Health

DreamlessNights

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Hi. I think I’ve written myself into a corner and may need to ditch an idea. This for my NaNoWriMo novel so the majority may end up getting scrapped anyway.

I am writing a YA friendship/romance/family (dual POV) novel that is partly about a teen in a band. He has depression, at least, that’s what I thought, but I haven’t written much to showcase that aside from a therapy visit and mention he is on medication.

As far as the romance goes, it’s on the very back-burner though it is between the two narrators. It’s not a “love heals all” story because I don’t even want the romance to be the focus, if it turns out that way, I’ll be taking out the depression during revision.

I am wondering then how depression would affect his being in a band. He is the lead singer of this band, they’re doing well, they’re getting more popular. The plan was to have him go viral, deal with that while also having depression and possibly going on tour.

I’m now wondering if when revising, I should take out all of the depression mention because I don’t think he could go on a (three month) tour while having depression.

My novel takes place over three months in the summer.

I guess what I am wanting research on his teen depression and serious hobbies. Would it be possible for him to do this band while having depression? Would it be possible for him to go far with it? I know several musicians have had mental illness but being at a young age, I don’t know if it’s plausible anymore.
 
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neandermagnon

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I had undiagnosed depression on and off as a teenager. I was also in a rock band that never got anywhere (mostly because we couldn't get a bassist). What country's he in? The UK's mental health services for teenagers is not very good (yep there are attempts to improve it but it's got a long way to go) - also factor in that parents often don't realise their child's ill (they may put it down to just being a moody teenager and teens often don't confide in their parents about how they're really feeling - also teens don't have enough life experience to necessarily realise that the way they're feeling is not normal, plus they may be told that everyone feels down and stressed about exams, etc - how are they supposed to know what's just normal stress and what's mental illness?) and teachers aren't trained that well in spotting it. Sad to say but kids often don't get referred for treatment until they're suicidal, and even then it's hit and miss whether they get appropriate treatment. So if he's been diagnosed and is receiving treatment, what's the backstory?

Other than that, it's not a lot different to adults with depression. As for going on tour etc, Kurt Cobain from Nirvana did the whole band thing while suffering from bipolar disorder. He's by far not the only musician with mental health problems. Reading up on the bios of famous musicians with (often undiagnosed, misdiagnosed and misunderstood) mental health problems may help rather than trying to say "can a person with depression do this" - the answer is they can, but the emotional toll of forcing yourself to do it and putting a brave face on and pretending you feel okay when you don't is more the issue. Depression can vary in severity, the most severe cases of depression would lead to a complete breakdown and being unable to do anything. If you write something like this, you have to write it accurately and would need to do lots of research. That doesn't sound like the story you're writing, so you don't have to make the depression as severe as that.

If he's on antidepressants, that's going to take care of some of the symptoms and if he's on the right kind and level of antidepressant, he'll be reasonably well and you won't notice any difference between him and anyone else, apart from he's got to take the medication and may discuss this with a sympathetic, trusted friend. Antidepressants don't work for all depression - medical science doesn't have a complete enough understanding of it yet. Treatments are constantly improving as researchers learn more, but at the present time, not all treatments work for everyone.

Also, reading personal accounts of anyone who's suffered from depression, whether they're into music or not, will help. Also see if you can read some articles online about dos and don'ts of writing mental illness - cliches, myths and inaccuracies to avoid, that sort of thing.
 

Undercover

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I would think he would have a lot of anxiety and stress over his band career. Just getting up on stage might be torture for someone with depression. And absolutely yes, he can have depression through all this. Like Neandermagnon said, it would have to be done carefully. Is your MC showing any signs and symptoms of depression? How does he feel emotionally? Your narrative of his depression would have to run throughout the book.
 

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If depression prevented tours, we wouldn't have so many musicians out there struggling with crippling depression.

Why do you think he wouldn't be able to go on the tour? That's not a rhetorical question, I'd appreciate it if you could list the problems you're seeing because I'm wondering how accurate your idea of depression is to the (immensely complex, honestly) reality. A lot of the elements of a tour are very positive for depression sufferers: strong sense of comradeship, strong daily focus, increased social interaction, meals with friends, getting out and seeing new places, and getting the massive focus and ego boost of playing on stage. All of these things are compatible with mental health issues.

Depression does not necessarily mean isolation and introversion. In fact it very rarely displays that way, the vast majority of people with it (especially those medicated and in therapy, as your protag is) remain fully function and continue a work/school life.

Depression can also be held back a bit by having strong hobbies and passions. They'd be heavily encouraged by their therapist and their friends/family to follow their passions in music. Passion isn't a cure-all (they'll still get depressed at points, sometimes triggered by a situation but often out of nowhere) but it helps when you can respond the brainweasels telling you everything is pointless and your music doesn't matter with: 'okay brain, but there's a group of people waiting for me to go on stage tomorrow night so let's talk about this another time'.

Also, be aware that there's no 'universal' presentation of depression so you're never going to convince all readers. Don't worry too much about making it look like depression, think instead about how depression would look for your protag. How they'd hide it, how they'd vent it out, how their life situation and the friends they keep would alter it, how they'd learn to cope.
 
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Maze Runner

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It would depend on how severe the depression is. Most likely he'd be able to perform and tour. On stage is where he'd be at his happiest, because for that time he has only one focus, and it's not on his depression.
 

rachelpaige98

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How long has he been treated for depression?
If it's a recent development, then it would be a lot harder for him, because he's still learning to live with it. If he's had it for a while, then his medication is likely working well and he's gained a lot of the coping techniques he needs.
It also really depends on the person. A tour with a band might be overwhelming for some, but for others it may give a sense of purpose. If he loves music and loves performing, then going on tour with people he likes to do what he loves may actually help his depression in some ways.

Bigger question: why do you need him to have depression? Is there a moment in your story when his depression worsens and messes up his current plans? Is it vital to his backstory and the person he is now? Otherwise, it doesn't feel to me like you need it there at all. If you mention he has depression, it should be important later, an obstacle to overcome, or explain a major aspect of his backstory.
 

DreamlessNights

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I had undiagnosed depression on and off as a teenager. I was also in a rock band that never got anywhere (mostly because we couldn't get a bassist). What country's he in? The UK's mental health services for teenagers is not very good (yep there are attempts to improve it but it's got a long way to go) - also factor in that parents often don't realise their child's ill (they may put it down to just being a moody teenager and teens often don't confide in their parents about how they're really feeling - also teens don't have enough life experience to necessarily realise that the way they're feeling is not normal, plus they may be told that everyone feels down and stressed about exams, etc - how are they supposed to know what's just normal stress and what's mental illness?) and teachers aren't trained that well in spotting it. Sad to say but kids often don't get referred for treatment until they're suicidal, and even then it's hit and miss whether they get appropriate treatment. So if he's been diagnosed and is receiving treatment, what's the backstory?

Other than that, it's not a lot different to adults with depression. As for going on tour etc, Kurt Cobain from Nirvana did the whole band thing while suffering from bipolar disorder. He's by far not the only musician with mental health problems. Reading up on the bios of famous musicians with (often undiagnosed, misdiagnosed and misunderstood) mental health problems may help rather than trying to say "can a person with depression do this" - the answer is they can, but the emotional toll of forcing yourself to do it and putting a brave face on and pretending you feel okay when you don't is more the issue. Depression can vary in severity, the most severe cases of depression would lead to a complete breakdown and being unable to do anything. If you write something like this, you have to write it accurately and would need to do lots of research. That doesn't sound like the story you're writing, so you don't have to make the depression as severe as that.

If he's on antidepressants, that's going to take care of some of the symptoms and if he's on the right kind and level of antidepressant, he'll be reasonably well and you won't notice any difference between him and anyone else, apart from he's got to take the medication and may discuss this with a sympathetic, trusted friend. Antidepressants don't work for all depression - medical science doesn't have a complete enough understanding of it yet. Treatments are constantly improving as researchers learn more, but at the present time, not all treatments work for everyone.

Also, reading personal accounts of anyone who's suffered from depression, whether they're into music or not, will help. Also see if you can read some articles online about dos and don'ts of writing mental illness - cliches, myths and inaccuracies to avoid, that sort of thing.

The current backstory is that he’s had it (his whole life really) but his parents got him help in middle school. They’re very supportive in him taking care of him mentally. After various therapists and medications, he’s been seeing the same therapist for three years (10th, 11th and 12th) grades. He’s finally found the right dosage of medication.

Thank you for your help. I was thinking he would seem like anyone else but also knowing he does have this illness and it does affect him. I haven’t gotten too into his POV, mostly focusing on my other MC who has alluded to his mental health. I’ve been doing some research but I’m going to do a lot more since I do care a lot about getting the rep right.
 

DreamlessNights

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I would think he would have a lot of anxiety and stress over his band career. Just getting up on stage might be torture for someone with depression. And absolutely yes, he can have depression through all this. Like Neandermagnon said, it would have to be done carefully. Is your MC showing any signs and symptoms of depression? How does he feel emotionally? Your narrative of his depression would have to run throughout the book.

I had been thinking of that. There has been a lot of anxiety over this. Especially impromptu gigs and arguments with friends and parents. I need to delve more into his narrative since I haven’t written much and it may be scrapped.
 

DreamlessNights

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If depression prevented tours, we wouldn't have so many musicians out there struggling with crippling depression.

Why do you think he wouldn't be able to go on the tour? That's not a rhetorical question, I'd appreciate it if you could list the problems you're seeing because I'm wondering how accurate your idea of depression is to the (immensely complex, honestly) reality. A lot of the elements of a tour are very positive for depression sufferers: strong sense of comradeship, strong daily focus, increased social interaction, meals with friends, getting out and seeing new places, and getting the massive focus and ego boost of playing on stage. All of these things are compatible with mental health issues.

Depression does not necessarily mean isolation and introversion. In fact it very rarely displays that way, the vast majority of people with it (especially those medicated and in therapy, as your protag is) remain fully function and continue a work/school life.

Depression can also be held back a bit by having strong hobbies and passions. They'd be heavily encouraged by their therapist and their friends/family to follow their passions in music. Passion isn't a cure-all (they'll still get depressed at points, sometimes triggered by a situation but often out of nowhere) but it helps when you can respond the brainweasels telling you everything is pointless and your music doesn't matter with: 'okay brain, but there's a group of people waiting for me to go on stage tomorrow night so let's talk about this another time'.

Also, be aware that there's no 'universal' presentation of depression so you're never going to convince all readers. Don't worry too much about making it look like depression, think instead about how depression would look for your protag. How they'd hide it, how they'd vent it out, how their life situation and the friends they keep would alter it, how they'd learn to cope.

Thanks for your lengthy response. I have been reading about musicians with depression but they’ve all mostly been adults touring. I was thinking he wouldn’t be able to go on tour because he does have this illness and it’s partly why he isn’t going to college, but so is the band. I was also thinking because of his young age (18) that it wouldn’t seem feasible for his protective parents to go along with this tour idea and not being around to help him. He also wouldn’t have physical access to his therapist so he would want to think about that in advance and how to deal with it.

It’s good to hear that passions can help depression, especially the things you mentioned with touring, I didn’t think about how it would be a positive experience.

I know depression shows in a lot of ways, I’m still trying to figure out how it will affect him. He definitely hides it well which my FMC thinks about when she sees him performing. Ah, I said this on another reply, but I’ll be doing a lot of research.
 

neandermagnon

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The current backstory is that he’s had it (his whole life really) but his parents got him help in middle school. They’re very supportive in him taking care of him mentally. After various therapists and medications, he’s been seeing the same therapist for three years (10th, 11th and 12th) grades. He’s finally found the right dosage of medication.

Thank you for your help. I was thinking he would seem like anyone else but also knowing he does have this illness and it does affect him. I haven’t gotten too into his POV, mostly focusing on my other MC who has alluded to his mental health. I’ve been doing some research but I’m going to do a lot more since I do care a lot about getting the rep right.

Have you based this on real life accounts? (I don't mean copying anyone's bio, just reading bios and making the general details of the illness fit in.)

Seeing a therapist for three years - what kind of therapy? There are different types of depression. Depression that's caused by stress and anxiety responds well to talking therapy treating the underlying stress and anxiety. Quite often an existing anxiety disorder (e.g. PTSD) causes the depression. There's a strong link between depression and anxiety, and in these cases the anxiety comes first and depression is the result of being constantly anxious. In the case of PTSD and depression co-existing, while the person may need antidepressants to treat the depression initially, the therapy's more geared up towards treating the PTSD. Once the PTSD's under control (about two out of three people can recover from it long term) the depression goes away on its own and antidepressants aren't needed any more. It's a similar story with other anxiety disorders co-existing with depression, or if the depression is caused by life stress. The talking therapy deals with the anxiety and the antidepressants relieve the depression symptoms. Once the anxiety's fully under control (can be easier said than done), the depression goes away.

On the other hand, there are types of depression that aren't related to life stress, where the brain chemistry just appears to be off, and talking therapy doesn't work for these cases, only the medication works (or sometimes doesn't because the right treatment hasn't been developed yet). Another type of depression is seasonal affective disorder which response to light therapy, and while antidepressants can work, they're not as good as light therapy as the lack of exposure to bright light from the sun during winter if you live near the poles is the cause. Talking therapies aren't effective at all.

So the back story of years of talking therapy doesn't really seem to fit. If he's got a severe enough anxiety disorder to require years of talking therapy - why? What's the cause of it? It's not his parents (child abuse can cause severe long term anxiety, but that's not the case here). There are other possible causes, but it may need to be mentioned to seem plausible. Is there a genetic link?

If he's got the kind of depression that's just brain chemistry and he's now on the right dose of medication, why does he still need to talk to a therapist? Some therapy to deal with the day to day practicalities and emotional fall-out of having the illness can be beneficial, but that's not going to take years and years.

I'd recommend - in addition to reading accounts of people who have mental illness - to consider whether what you have in mind fits better with a different illness rather than depression.

I'm not saying that it's impossible for someone to have the pattern of illness your MC has, only that it seems a bit off in places and doesn't seem to fit the other details about his life - where things don't fit you need more explanation about why (which would take more in-depth research). But as this isn't the main focus of the story, maybe you need to change some details.

You can read real life accounts of mental illness on this site https://www.time-to-change.org.uk/ it's an official UK organisation to promote awareness of mental illness, and try to remove the stigma of it and end discrimination. Click on the "about mental health" bit to get facts and also bust some myths.
 
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neandermagnon

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Thanks for your lengthy response. I have been reading about musicians with depression but they’ve all mostly been adults touring. I was thinking he wouldn’t be able to go on tour because he does have this illness and it’s partly why he isn’t going to college, but so is the band. I was also thinking because of his young age (18) that it wouldn’t seem feasible for his protective parents to go along with this tour idea and not being around to help him. He also wouldn’t have physical access to his therapist so he would want to think about that in advance and how to deal with it.

Depression isn't a reason not to go to college, especially if it's now under control with the right medication. I'd find it weird (and a possible cause of his depression/anxiety, and question why the therapist hasn't picked up on it) that his parents are being so overprotective and controlling. Acute, newly diagnosed, not yet well treated depression may be a reason to delay going to college, but not to never go if the person wants to go to college. For long term treatment of depression, having ambitions and things to look forward to helps a great deal. As his medication's now got the illness under control, he'd be much better off going to college if that's what he wants to do. Similarly, going on tour with the band would be good for him for the same reasons.

18 isn't young. His parents seem horribly overprotective and controlling if they're not letting him go to college even though his illness is under control with the right medication. If, however, he doesn't actually want to go to college, that's a different matter. But as his depression's now under control, if he's not studying he ought to be working. Another way to approach this - maybe he and his parents see his band as a kind of self-employed job (even if he's not yet earning), and the thing that's giving him purpose and direction in his life and they're fine with him not going to college or doing a more steady job while he's trying to make the band a success. Hopefully they're also preparing him to have a back up plan (i.e. a more boring but steady job) if the band thing doesn't work out. But that would involve not going to college because he doesn't want to go.

You don't have to have face time with a therapist. You can see a therapist via skype or even over the telephone. Talking therapies don't require the therapist to be in the same room as you. But if he's on the right medication now, why does he need to see a therapist regularly? (see my previous post). Also, I don't know about the USA but in the UK universities have on-campus counsellors and student support services, and staff would be aware of his illness so would be able to keep an eye on him and help and support him where necessary. If he needs to talk to a therapist while on tour with the band he can skype.
 
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EMaree

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There's not much I can add to neandermagnon's absolutely fantastic points, honestly. I want to bold and underline so many of Neander's fantastic points.

I was thinking he wouldn’t be able to go on tour because he does have this illness and it’s partly why he isn’t going to college, but so is the band.

Hmmm, I have mixed feelings about this. Most professionals would strongly discourage dropping college because of his depression. ...On the other hand, I dropped out of school at 16 because of depression, so I get it. There's definitely a limit to what a person can cope with. But I didn't drop out of school until it hit a fairly extreme point (of 'if I keep going here I will do something terrible and irreversible'), and I went into entry-level work very soon after.

All through this time, I was still following my passion and writing books. But I needed that stability of work to keep me grounded. I needed a reason to get out of bed in the morning, and touring on it own wouldn't be good for that because your protag could sleep all day and drink all night and still be showing up to the job. On the weeks where I wasn't working it was far too easy to slip into a 'sleep all day, write all night' antisocial pattern.

I was also thinking because of his young age (18) that it wouldn’t seem feasible for his protective parents to go along with this tour idea and not being around to help him.

Depends how supportive his parents are of his musical career, really. A lot of parents (especially ones who've been hidden from the extent of their child's mental health issues) would push their kid to keep chasing the dream. Some might even think achieving their dreams would help with the depression.

Mental health issues can be hereditary so the parents' mental history will also influence their choices here, as will the time they grew up in and what kind of mental health stigmas they were exposed to.

Also, is your book set in America? Over here at 18 years parents don't really get a vote, the kid is an adult now and their choices are their own.

He also wouldn’t have physical access to his therapist so he would want to think about that in advance and how to deal with it.

He also wouldn’t have physical access to his therapist so he would want to think about that in advance and how to deal with it.

Phone calls and video calls with your therapist are super normal now. This would be a non-issue. (And as a reader, I'd be ticked off to find it as an issue in modern books, because it smacks of bad research and makes young readers think therapists are difficult to access.)

Keep in mind that if you bring depression into focus in a YA book, there are implicit genre expectations that you'll give young vulnerable readers healthy examples on how to live with depression. Books that set bad examples tend to get torn down.

This is a genre expectation I have mixed feelings about, because I feel like it limits the ability of #ownvoices mental health sufferers to honestly tell their story and can lead to very by-the-numbers portrayals of depression, but it's very important to be aware of.
 
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DreamlessNights

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Have you based this on real life accounts? (I don't mean copying anyone's bio, just reading bios and making the general details of the illness fit in.)

Seeing a therapist for three years - what kind of therapy? There are different types of depression. Depression that's caused by stress and anxiety responds well to talking therapy treating the underlying stress and anxiety. Quite often an existing anxiety disorder (e.g. PTSD) causes the depression. There's a strong link between depression and anxiety, and in these cases the anxiety comes first and depression is the result of being constantly anxious. In the case of PTSD and depression co-existing, while the person may need antidepressants to treat the depression initially, the therapy's more geared up towards treating the PTSD. Once the PTSD's under control (about two out of three people can recover from it long term) the depression goes away on its own and antidepressants aren't needed any more. It's a similar story with other anxiety disorders co-existing with depression, or if the depression is caused by life stress. The talking therapy deals with the anxiety and the antidepressants relieve the depression symptoms. Once the anxiety's fully under control (can be easier said than done), the depression goes away.

On the other hand, there are types of depression that aren't related to life stress, where the brain chemistry just appears to be off, and talking therapy doesn't work for these cases, only the medication works (or sometimes doesn't because the right treatment hasn't been developed yet). Another type of depression is seasonal affective disorder which response to light therapy, and while antidepressants can work, they're not as good as light therapy as the lack of exposure to bright light from the sun during winter if you live near the poles is the cause. Talking therapies aren't effective at all.

So the back story of years of talking therapy doesn't really seem to fit. If he's got a severe enough anxiety disorder to require years of talking therapy - why? What's the cause of it? It's not his parents (child abuse can cause severe long term anxiety, but that's not the case here). There are other possible causes, but it may need to be mentioned to seem plausible. Is there a genetic link?

If he's got the kind of depression that's just brain chemistry and he's now on the right dose of medication, why does he still need to talk to a therapist? Some therapy to deal with the day to day practicalities and emotional fall-out of having the illness can be beneficial, but that's not going to take years and years.

I'd recommend - in addition to reading accounts of people who have mental illness - to consider whether what you have in mind fits better with a different illness rather than depression.

I'm not saying that it's impossible for someone to have the pattern of illness your MC has, only that it seems a bit off in places and doesn't seem to fit the other details about his life - where things don't fit you need more explanation about why (which would take more in-depth research). But as this isn't the main focus of the story, maybe you need to change some details.

You can read real life accounts of mental illness on this site https://www.time-to-change.org.uk/ it's an official UK organisation to promote awareness of mental illness, and try to remove the stigma of it and end discrimination. Click on the "about mental health" bit to get facts and also bust some myths.

I’ve been reading some bios around.
The therapy he does is talking therapy. I wasn’t aware that a chemical imbalance didn’t require that. I’ve also wondered if it’s possible I’m thinking of another mental illness. Honestly, the idea just came into my head one night as in “Oh, he has depression” and I was trying to work around that, but I’m thinking in revision it might be completely cut. Thank you for the link, I’ll check it out for sure.