Do we have any French literature experts here? In particular, Balzac experts?

Perks · May 12, 2018

I'm very confused by a beautiful Balzac quote that I might be wanting to do something with. The commonly disseminated translation is -

"The privilege of feeling at home everywhere belongs only to kings, wolves, and robbers."

But when I hunted down the source (which was a little more difficult than I expected) it's from his novel, Splendeurs et Misères des Courtisanes, written in the mid-1800s, and the line is actually -

"Ce privilège d'être partout chez soi n'appartient qu'aux rois, aux filles et aux voleurs."

I learned a little French a long time ago and that's not "wolves", that's "girls."

Do you know what accounts for that rather substantial difference? This is really interesting to me. It makes me wonder if it was just translated wrong once and then blasted off in all its borked glory.

cornflake · May 12, 2018

I admit I opened the thread only to make a Balzac joke.

However, I got interested. Five years of French got me exactly as far as you, but wondering if there was a contextual other meaning of filles at the time. I found a contemporaneous translation by Ellen Marriage, apparently uniquely, for the time, dedicated to accuracy (so says the Internets), who translates that as prostitutes, which is an interesting bridge and makes tons more sense in the sentence to me than either girls or wolves.

Perks · May 12, 2018

cornflake said:
... which is an interesting bridge and makes tons more sense in the sentence to me than either girls or wolves.

I agree.

Elenitsa · May 12, 2018

Yes, filles can mean prostitutes. An euphemism that you hear in Edith Piaf's songs is also "fille de joie" - joy girl, meaning also prostitute.

Perks · May 12, 2018

Elenitsa said:
Yes, filles can mean prostitutes. An euphemism that you hear in Edith Piaf's songs is also "fille de joie" - joy girl, meaning also prostitute.

But can it, does it ever mean "wolves"?

Elle. · May 12, 2018

I'm French and I have absolutely no idea how the translator got from "filles" to "wolves", unless whoever the translator was saw prostitutes as predators and compared them to wolves (or maybe they thought it sounded better). In this context "filled" refers to prostitutes or courtesans rather than "little girls".

Perks · May 12, 2018

Elle. said:
I'm French and I have absolutely no idea how the translator got from "filles" to "wolves", unless whoever the translator was saw prostitutes as predators and compared them to wolves (or maybe they thought it sounded better). In this context "filled" refers to prostitutes or courtesans rather than "little girls".

That makes sense. I will also amend my post.

Yeah, I'm really confused that the internet has so widely disseminated such a weird mistake. It almost makes me wonder if, st some point, the English translation was "whores" and somehow one w-word got run over by another.

DanielSTJ · May 12, 2018

I am fluent in French and I'm baffled by that translation.

Strange. Hm.

I hope you find your answers!

Fuchsia Groan · May 12, 2018

And filles = prostitutes probably makes sense in context because the whole book is about the rise and fall of particular prostitutes ("courtisanes"). I read the book, but it was a long time ago, so I don't remember that line at all.

I'm not French, but have read a lot of French 19th-century fiction in the original, and I've never seen prostitutes referred to as "wolves" (loups). Businessmen, on the other hand...

ETA: Could be a prudish 19th-century translator was involved in creating this misquote.

Tocotin · May 12, 2018

Lupa, or "she-wolf", was a Latin slang for a female sex worker in ancient Rome, a brothel was called a lupanar, which means "wolf den". Maybe it's through this association that the translation was made? Or maybe it was some obscure slang term?

frimble3 · May 12, 2018

It might be that a rather too well-read a translator was trying for a euphemism that didn't mention 'girls' and was rather hoping that a equally well-read reader would follow 'wolf' and 'whore' through it's Latin connection, and snicker at his cleverness. Those not in the know would merely be perplexed.

Perks · May 12, 2018

frimble3 said:
Those not in the know

Hey, when you look up Perkses in the dictionary, that's the exact wording of the entry!

Helix · May 12, 2018

I have nothing to add, other than this is a fascinating thread.

Harlequin · May 13, 2018

There's quite a lot of bad mistakes which become "widely known" - not French, but I refer you to Robert Frost's poem with the famous line "and I took the road less travelled by".

It doesn't mean what most people quote it as!

AW Admin · Sep 11, 2018

Perks said:
That makes sense. I will also amend my post.

Yeah, I'm really confused that the internet has so widely disseminated such a weird mistake. It almost makes me wonder if, st some point, the English translation was "whores" and somehow one w-word got run over by another.

I suspect, having looked at the passage in context, that in scanning or converting a public domain translation, whores was misread by the OCR software as wolves.

frimble3 · Sep 11, 2018

AW Admin said:
I suspect, having looked at the passage in context, that in scanning or converting a public domain translation, whores was misread by the OCR software as wolves.

A sadly mundane, but quite likely, explanation. Thank you for the research.

Do we have any French literature experts here? In particular, Balzac experts?

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

Elenitsa

writing as Marina Costa

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

Elle.

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

DanielSTJ

The Wandering Bard

Fuchsia Groan

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

Tocotin

deceives

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

Perks

delicate #!&@*#! flower

Helix

socially distancing

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

AW Admin

frimble3

Heckuva good sport