Child Marriage

Quentin Nokov said:

While my story is set on an entirely different planet, I'm using mostly American and British laws in the world building, so I've got some creative license to work with. My question is, my main character is 13 and was married off to a boy her same age. Child marriages are completely legal in the country where they were wed; however, she has been adopted and become a citizen of a different country where the legal marrying age is 18. Her adopted father is trying to get custody now of her husband. My question is: do government recognize a child marriage if child marriages are illegal there? Neither party want the marriage annulled. Would a court allow the father to get custody of his son-in-law? Realistically would that cause an issue?

I know this is my world and I can do what I want, but I also want it to be believable and not outlandish, either. What sort of brief, legal excuse could I make that would keep the marriage legitimate and let the father have custody of his son-in-law? What would stand in the way of this? (By all means use real-life examples).

The main character being married is necessary to the plot as well as being able to keep them together, but as I sat here writing, I started considering the legality of it. And now I feel I might end up with a plot-hole if I don't properly sort-out the legal aspects of this.

Help! And thank you to everyone in advance.

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I can't see that happening -- a country recognizing a child marriage at that age, when that age is not remotely permissible in said country. Also, you want him to adopt her husband? That'd likely mean the marriage would also violate laws (presuming they exist, given you said it's based on American/British laws), against marrying your siblings. Also, no f'ing way he's getting custody or passing a home stiudy, heh.

Maryn said:

I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine one of the many here will be alone in due time. I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure that a legally valid marriage is generally recognized in places where that marriage would not be legal. This happened when only some states had legalized gay marriage, for instance.

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You're right in regards to the 10th Amendment, which requires states to recognize legal contracts and licenses and such issued by other states (in a general sense -- you're not barred in CA just because you passed the bar in NY, but your driver's license is a valid document allowing you to drive in all 50). However, doesn't apply to countries, and even state to state, when it comes to children signing legal contracts (marriage) I would not imagine that'd fly. I mean to some extent, as there are states with low (or no) age floors for child marriage with parental consent, but if a grown man walked into NYS with his 12-year-old bride and claimed it was legal because her parents consented and the 10th, I'd imagine there could be a legitimate legal fight over it, concerning not only her inability to both consent and sign a legally binding contract but age of consent, child endangerment, etc., etc.,

Was she adopted before or after the marriage? If before, the marriage never legally occurred. If after, she probably didn't get adopted since she is legally wed where she was.

For me, the idea is too weird to believe and at best it would be the beginning of a Romeo and Juliet trope.

Jeff

What caught my eye was that, apparently, she was married and then she was adopted. Why would someone 'adopt' a married girl? (BTW Is he her step-father?)
Surely she would legally become part of her husband's family? I would assume that's one of the reasons for marrying so young, to forge that alliance with another family, to see a child safely settled. Isn't this standard in America and Britain: 'Who God has joined together, let no man put asunder' (and assorted variations)?
Especially if the adopting family is a pack of foreigners. And, if there was some real/advantage need for adopting into a foreign country (safety during war/chance at wealth, etc.) why wouldn't the husband, and some of the in-laws, automatically go along?

If I were the husband's family, I'd fight tooth and nail to keep some stranger from getting custody of their boy.
More and more, I suspect the adoptive father's motives.

Unless, there was some major reason to move to the adoptive father's country (war, famine, etc) in which case why not just have the kids move there, as his adopted daughter and her friend? If things are bad in the home-country, their family may have asked for sanctuary for their child (her childhood playmate) as well. They can't act married in public, but other than that there are probably a lot of children relocated for various reasons.

WeaselFire said:

Was she adopted before or after the marriage? If before, the marriage never legally occurred. If after, she probably didn't get adopted since she is legally wed where she was.

For me, the idea is too weird to believe and at best it would be the beginning of a Romeo and Juliet trope.

Jeff

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Why wouldn't she get adopted because she's married? What does that have to do with anything?

The answer is that it varies. Some states specifically say the will not honor a marriage from another state if it doesn't meet their own requirements. I recall seeing this mostly in regards to cousin marriages.

The wiki article about child marriage in the US doesn't talk about recognition by other states.

Quentin Nokov said:

He wouldn't be adopting him, like you said that would technically make them siblings. [EWWW] He'd just get custody or have guardianship over him.




Both characters are the same age: 13 years old. So it's not a creepy, she's 13 and he's 30 type of situation. They're the same age and both are in agreement with the union. The adoptive father came from the same country where child marriages are legal and is lax about the situation, so he's not about to contest it either though he knows how taboo it is.

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Doesn't matter if they agree or if both are 13, they're both too young, in the U.S. (save possibly some southern holdouts, though I think they've mostly changed to a floor of 16 or so), to be able to consent, or to sign a legally binding contract, so, as there's no requirement that I know of in either the U.S. or GB that other countrys' contracts and such be recognized, I still don't think there's any way it'd fly.

As far as I know, there's no way for two young teens to marry without parental consent or a court acting on behalf of an emancipated minor in the US. However, parents can give permission for very young children to marry, even to marry much older adults, in a majority of US States. Many (including CA, btw) have no legal minimum at all if parents give "consent." Of course the difference between parental "consent" and a parental "mandate" is going to be pretty hard to distinguish with younger teens and children. If Americans are serious about ending child marriage, we need to start at home.

I can only guess these laws exist to allow for shotgun marriages for pregnant teen (or younger) girls, a relic from a time when abortion was illegal and childbirth out of wedlock was shameful. Another issue is so-called religious freedom, so cultures that believe in marrying young girls to older men can do so without being accused of child rape. We still think of kids as their parents' property in some ways, so parents are allowed to impose their religious beliefs on children too young to give informed consent, even when such practices could harm them. For some reason, it's not considered physically or psychologically harmful for young girls to engage in sex with adult men if they are married to them.

https://theconversation.com/child-marriage-is-still-legal-in-the-us-88846

http://www.businessinsider.com/child-marriage-still-legal-in-america-2017-12

In the US, the longtime tradition was for a marriage performed in one state to be legal in others, even if the couple couldn't have legally gotten married in all of them. The only time there was an attempt to circumvent this reciprocity was when some states legalized same-gender marriage before the court decision making it legal everywhere. Many states passed laws specifically stating they didn't have to recognize those particular marriages. I think the inconsistency was part of the basis for these laws being overturned.

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Okay, here goes: My father's mother married her husband when she was fourteen. The marriage was arranged. Old world Lebanese families sort of thing. Yes I know fourteen is often the cut off point for what's allowed and what's not. I believe they were married in Louisiana and had most of their eight children (but not my father) there, then they moved to NY. And yes, my father, born in NY, was listed as legitimate (because birth certificates listed that sort of thing in those days).

All of which is to say that I have no squick factor that everyone else seems to have, nor do I find your scenario impossible or illegal. The one problem is a person who informally "adopts" someone isn't going to have any say about guardianship of that someone's spouse...and if he was the good guy sort, the youngly wed couple might even WANT him as the guardian of both of them. If not, you may have a hostage situation on your hands.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Understand that there are major differences between the ways things happen between states and between countries. Between countries involves international law, and there are all sorts of considerations to make life interesting.

For example, if you are legally married to multiple spouses in your country, and you come to the US and bring your spouses, you will not be charged with bigamy. The marriages to the subsequent spouses are not "legal" in the US, but some aspects of the marriage are allowed.

Back in the 1950s and 60s, it's my understanding that a Mexican divorce was not legal in California, but if you married in Mexico after a Mexican divorce, you could be charged in California with bigamy. In the same time period, a Nevada divorce that was not for cause was not always recognized in New York.

Rather than worry about the legalities, the bigger question is what does your story need?

Jim Clark-Dawe

Quentin Nokov said:

Also, if the husband character has popped up and the adoptive father is trying to get custody would he need a case worker in that? A foster agency? Go straight to a lawyer?

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Don't know the legalities, but for simplicity's sake, I'd have him go with the same team that arranged the adoption of the girl. They would understand the situation, be up to speed, have the original paperwork that dealt with her adoption (home-study, background check, etc.) I don't imagine any modern army allows officers to just pick up a teenage girl and haul her home, no questions asked. (See various UN scandals.) Especially if the secret Guardian of the Universe has no wife or home suitable for a dependent.
(Indeed, a lawyer would be able to advise if it would be better or worse to just tell the court that they were married in 'the old country' and that it would be kindest to keep these orphans together until they are 'of age'.)
I don't think I'm squicked by the situation, just aware of the suspicious eyes of the world.

Quentin Nokov said:

Thank you Roxxsmom and Siri for the replies. The couple are actually living in the southern part of the country, so I suppose I could use a loop-hole in their laws that allows it. How would the marriage be recognized then? Would they appear in court? Would they submit the marriage certificate? How does that work?

Also, if the husband character has popped up and the adoptive father is trying to get custody would he need a case worker in that? A foster agency? Go straight to a lawyer? The adoptive father is the good guy and is actually secretly the Guardian of the Universe and the girl whom he adopted is his successor. And of course, the husband is now like a "royal" consort, if you will.

Thanks again everyone for the replies and replies to come. I much appreciate it!

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When does the story take place? Historically, there are many examples of children who have not attained the age of majority living on their own (whether because of being orphaned, runaways, or abandoned) and passing as adults in order to do things like join the military, get a job, marry etc. I'm guessing there were (and still are) people who specialized in exploiting kids in these situations too.

There are a couple of ways for teens in the modern US to get married without parental consent. One is via a court order, if the court determines it to be in the best interest of the child (or children if they both are minors). This probably is meant to occur in cases of pregnancy when parents don't consent, but I don't know how likely a court is to decide it the best thing for a child these days. I suppose it depends on the personal values of the judge involved and the circumstances.

The other is if the teen has been declared an emancipated minor by a court. It is roughly the equivalent of a teen getting a divorce from their parents without being declared a ward of the state and put in foster care or transferring custody to a relative. Ironically, getting married (with parental consent) is one way a minor can achieve emancipation. Emancipation of minors can also happen in cases of abuse or abandonment, if the teen has the means to support themselves, but laws vary by state.

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

I don't think those final nitpicky things matter as to how you do them since this is a fantasy.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

I'm confused about the Timeline.

You have Country YoungMarriage and Country OldMarriage. All three characters are originally citizens of YoungMarriage.

Character C(olonel) moves to OldMarriage, becomes a citizen, joins their army.

Character W(ife) and Character H(usband) marry when they are both 13.

War breaks out in YoungMarriage.

C is sent by the Army of OldMarriage to YoungMarriage to fight the war.

W and H are separated in the war. W ends up in a prison camp.

C finds W in the prison camp. (Evidently she thinks H is dead? Otherwise why not tell C that her husband may be out there somewhere?)

C takes W back to OldMarriage. (How old is W now? How long did the war last? Did she arrive on a humanitarian visa as a refugee? How long to get the visa so she can emmigrate?)

W is adopted by C (How old is W now? Legal adoption can take years. Or maybe laws in either OldMarriage or YoungMarriage are easy and they allow an adoption really fast?)

W becomes a citizen of OldMarriage. (How old is W now? in the United States, it can take years to become a citizen even on a fast track.)

At some point after W becomes a citizen, C and W find out H is out there somewhere. C attempts to reunite them.

If five years have passed by now, them being married (or getting re-married) is probably no problem. And C wouldn't need to get legal custody of H if the legal age is 18. Are they both still 13 after all this?

If W and H are still under age, C could possibly sponsor H as a refugee from YoungCountry. That would also take some time if you're basing this on US law.

ETA: Also what Roxxsmom said. Your time scale and choices are different if you're looking at US law from the 21st century than if you're looking at US law from the 19th century. Also it may differ depending on how OldMarriage views YoungMarriage. The US's first immigration law was the shameful Chinese Exclusion Act. We didn't care about immigrants from any of the other countries at that time.

If you're wanting to give your child marriage roots in British laws-- in Elizabethan England, for example, you had child marriages. Those were generally to secure dynastic alliances-- making allies of important families-- or to secure property. You were less likely to find child marriages outside the nobility, because the ordinary people had to establish their livelihoods before they were able to marry. Regardless, the arrangements, regardless of class, were generally arranged by the parents/families, not the individuals who were actually marrying.

So, you have people like Anne de Mowbray (8th Countess of Norfolk) being married to Richard of Shrewsbury (1st Duke of York) when she was 6 and he was 4. Or you had Katherine Dudley (sister of Robert Dudley) being married at age 7, to Henry Hastings (heir of the 2nd Earl of Huntingdon). But those were exceptional situations, and only came about due to the political stake those girls represented.

Marriage was a process. The first stage was betrothal. Betrothal was a legal contract, but could be dissolved-- for example, Elizabeth of York was betrothed at age 3 to George Neville, in 1469. Then, when George Neville's father supported a rebellion against Elizabeth's father, Edward IV, it was called off. She was then betrothed to the Dauphin of France in 1475, but that, too, was canceled by the time you got to 1482. She ultimately married Henry VII in 1486 to help put an end to the War of the Roses-- by that time, she was 20.

But, anyhow, the betrothal contract was generally the first stage, especially when dealing with child marriage. It could be canceled by things like mutual consent, or by one party if the other party becomes disfigured, or is guilty of infidelity, or is a heretic, or various other things. It's not until the day of the actual wedding that the bride changes her name.

Things like consummation were generally put off to a later date, either for the betrothal stage of things, or occasionally, the marriage stage of things. Catherine of Aragon, for example, was originally married to Arthur Tudor (at age 16, although they were married by proxy when she was 14). When Arthur died prematurely, she married Henry VIII, on the claim that she had not consummated her marriage with his brother, as (a) canon law prohibited a man from marrying his brother's widow, and (b) canon law said a marriage was not valid until consummated.

So-- it looks like it's sort of the opposite from your scenario-- they start off as nobodies, but end up being adopted by a powerful individual, and earn prominence due to their proximity to your character; rather than being important people in a land torn by war, and end up being adopted by an ordinary guy. But that's one way that child marriage was handled in the west in the past. Here's an age-of-marriage list for the US.

If you're going by US law, she would not necessarily become a citizen upon adoption. In fact, to our shame, we have deported adults adopted by US citizens as children because their parents never bothered to get them proper citizenship. (The Child Citizenship Act of 2000 helped with this but didn't, ahem, grandfather in all the kids.)

I'd say it's up to you to decide how OldMarriage handles adoption and citizenship. There's no reason they can't have a law like The Child Citizenship Act that confers citizenship when the adoption is finalized.

As for marriage, that's up to you too. There are states in the USA where there is no minimum age for marriage with the parent/guardian's permission. There are 11 year old child brides in Florida, frex.

Quentin Nokov said:

You got most of that correct!

The timing of the story is set between a mix of modern-day (technology-wise) and also 1950s (as far as morals and principles of the country, war-time events, etc.)

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If it's a fantasy story, or set in an alternative reality, you can have whatever rules you like, as long as they make sense for the society and culture in the context of the story.

The husband and wife--due to the fantasy part of it--are stuck in their 13 year old bodies. They're technically 5,000+ years old (so they're of legal marrying age, really) but no one knows that.

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Emotionally, they would clearly be ready for the commitment (if one can commit to anything after 5000 years). Their physical bodies might pose problems for them, especially if pregnancy and childbirth occur. There were, and always have been, girls who have their periods at 11-12, but historically it wasn't as common as it is today (my grandma didn't "start" until she was almost 16). Reliable fertility and skeletal maturity that would support safe pregnancy and childbearing usually takes around three years after menarche. It's up to you to decide whether her 13-year-old body is fertile. It's possible it is, but it's also possible it isn't.

As far as I know, in the modern US (at least) minor children become citizens upon adoption, though children obviously won't have all the privileges that go with citizenship (like voting etc) until they are "of age."

Again, you can have different rules if that works for your story, since your society is made up.

cornflake said:

Why wouldn't she get adopted because she's married? What does that have to do with anything?

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Emancipation. In most countries, a married person is a legal adult, no matter the age of marriage. In some countries, the wife is still property of the husband, thus also not adoptable. In any case, adoption of a married person would surely require the consent of their spouse, from any country.

In the US it's even worse since the courts will look at the adoption and question why a person who is married is being adopted. On the face it's suspicious and a red flag at some criminal act or activity, at least a citizenship fraud.

But, it's a fantasy story so fantastic things, by definition, can happen. But that's the kind of deviance that, if unexplained by the milieu, would make a reader lose their suspension of disbelief. And, if it were explained by the world she lives in, the OP wouldn't have asked the question.

Jeff

Runaways and refugees rarely have official documents on them, as there's no time to grab them. (This is what makes getting legal status difficult in some cases. They can't prove they are who they say they are, or that they're from where they say they're from.)

Assuming she's a refugee with no papers, and a home country that's not eager to make immigration easy for those fleeing it, all she'd have to do is omit the marriage in her official paper applications. If the country that doesn't have child marriage has been that way for generations, then it's not likely they'll question whether or not she's married.

For the second adoption, make an honorary brother part of the story. Say she was an orphan in her home country and these two young teens grew up together. That would give a plausible reason for her adoptive father to go looking for, and try and get custody of, a seemingly random boy.

For now, they're legally adopted. When they get old enough to marry by the laws of their new country, they can as they're not considered blood siblings. Since the guy adopting them knows the truth, they could live as husband and wife under his roof, but act like siblings outside until they're of a socially acceptable age to date/court, whatever.