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For a first time author beginning in this business, is it possible that a Publishing House would consider a 250, 000 word action/adventure fantasy?
length of acceptable fiction
- Thread starter Starbrazer
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Yes, if you were Tolstoy. Why would you want to attempt to drop a novel on a public, including me, that refuses to read by the pound? Break it up into a trilogy.
My bet is that you can cut it by 70 percent, at least, to get it into readability shape. How many times have you re-written it?
My bet is that you can cut it by 70 percent, at least, to get it into readability shape. How many times have you re-written it?
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You've already asked this question on another thread.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33308
And the answer is the same:
Not likely, leave the uber-fat books to Robert Jordan.
Review publishers' submission guidelines and go with them. Ignoring them just keeps you unpublished.
Several excellent suggestions on what you can do concerning your work were made on the other thread. Check them over again.
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33308
And the answer is the same:
Not likely, leave the uber-fat books to Robert Jordan.
Review publishers' submission guidelines and go with them. Ignoring them just keeps you unpublished.
Several excellent suggestions on what you can do concerning your work were made on the other thread. Check them over again.
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I'm not an actual editor, but a lot of editors have provided ralan's market listing (www.ralan.com) with the word limits they'll accept. You might find it useful to peruse that site.
Some houses will be willing to look at a BFFs (big fat fantasies) though in most cases the BFFs that do get published aren't first novels, but rather are by well-established authors since they're a better financial risk and it costs a lot more to produce a BFF than it does a shorter book. Other houses just plain won't accept anything over a certain word limit, and that will cut out some prospective markets for you, such as:
LUNA BOOKS - Harlequin imprint; 95% female-centric (male author okay), strong fantasy element with some romance (fic). Pay: negotiated. Words: 100-150k. RT: ?. Reprints: no. E-subs: no. Mary-Theresa Hussey, Executive Editor (no e-mail).
DEL REY BOOKS (Random House) - major publisher; sf/f/df. Pay: industry standard royalty & advance. Words: 60-120k. No unsolicited subs. Betsy Mitchell, Editor-in-Chief.
(the above have been copied/pasted from ralan.com)
It's not that you can't get a BFF published as a first novel, just that your chances are probably a whole lot better with a 80 - 120K word novel.
Some houses will be willing to look at a BFFs (big fat fantasies) though in most cases the BFFs that do get published aren't first novels, but rather are by well-established authors since they're a better financial risk and it costs a lot more to produce a BFF than it does a shorter book. Other houses just plain won't accept anything over a certain word limit, and that will cut out some prospective markets for you, such as:
LUNA BOOKS - Harlequin imprint; 95% female-centric (male author okay), strong fantasy element with some romance (fic). Pay: negotiated. Words: 100-150k. RT: ?. Reprints: no. E-subs: no. Mary-Theresa Hussey, Executive Editor (no e-mail).
DEL REY BOOKS (Random House) - major publisher; sf/f/df. Pay: industry standard royalty & advance. Words: 60-120k. No unsolicited subs. Betsy Mitchell, Editor-in-Chief.
(the above have been copied/pasted from ralan.com)
It's not that you can't get a BFF published as a first novel, just that your chances are probably a whole lot better with a 80 - 120K word novel.
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Hi Argenianpoet,
I am an editor (caveat: I work in nonfiction at the moment), and can tell you that 250,000 words is a lot longer than almost any manuscript needs to be. I'll assume that every word of your manuscript is vital and terrific, so the publisher who takes you on will need to think about publishing a book that's hovering around the 500-page mark. That's an incredibly expensive book to produce, which means the publisher is going to have to spend more to print it, meaning they'll have to count on a higher print run to make it worthwhile, meaning they'll have to count on a higher-buy in, meaning they'll have to spend more to promote it, meaning that the risks involved in taking on a brand-new writer with no name recognition are very, very great. It's not impossible, but it's really unlikely. And honestly, most books that have enormous word counts really, really need some good chopping.
Good luck!
I am an editor (caveat: I work in nonfiction at the moment), and can tell you that 250,000 words is a lot longer than almost any manuscript needs to be. I'll assume that every word of your manuscript is vital and terrific, so the publisher who takes you on will need to think about publishing a book that's hovering around the 500-page mark. That's an incredibly expensive book to produce, which means the publisher is going to have to spend more to print it, meaning they'll have to count on a higher print run to make it worthwhile, meaning they'll have to count on a higher-buy in, meaning they'll have to spend more to promote it, meaning that the risks involved in taking on a brand-new writer with no name recognition are very, very great. It's not impossible, but it's really unlikely. And honestly, most books that have enormous word counts really, really need some good chopping.
Good luck!
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I'm also an editor, and editors and agents do check out the various threads on AW. If the question interests them they will reply. If the previous posts answering a question have covered the angles sufficiently they will move on. The replies on your previous post covered everything very well, indeed.
The moderators tend to mesh identical threads together, especially when a single writer starts the same thread in two different areas. They may take a dim view of repeat threads, though since you're new here they might cut some slack, just not much.
The moderators tend to mesh identical threads together, especially when a single writer starts the same thread in two different areas. They may take a dim view of repeat threads, though since you're new here they might cut some slack, just not much.
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sorry
Sorry. I'll ask different questions from now on; not the same ones. It's just that I am really insecure about my project now and don't know what to do. I have started on a new novel and it's at the 40,000 mark right now; so I am considering how to restrain it from monsterdom, if you will. Is 70,000 a good safe number for a first book, and if it does go into 100,000 it's still okay right? Since there are real editors in here, then what you say really matters and I listen to people like you, because I know they're telling the truth.
I want to thank everyone for their input; it is very helpful to me.
Gillhoughly said:
Sorry. I'll ask different questions from now on; not the same ones. It's just that I am really insecure about my project now and don't know what to do. I have started on a new novel and it's at the 40,000 mark right now; so I am considering how to restrain it from monsterdom, if you will. Is 70,000 a good safe number for a first book, and if it does go into 100,000 it's still okay right? Since there are real editors in here, then what you say really matters and I listen to people like you, because I know they're telling the truth.
I want to thank everyone for their input; it is very helpful to me.
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thanks
Thank you for your advice Nomad; I need to hear that because it is important. I have not really put too much emphasis on length until now, and you have really opened my eyes. Writers are the worst editors, you know?
Nomad said:
Thank you for your advice Nomad; I need to hear that because it is important. I have not really put too much emphasis on length until now, and you have really opened my eyes. Writers are the worst editors, you know?
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Anything is possible. But as Uncle Jim said (and I paraphrase): it's a curve. The norm is about 100-120K. The more you veer toward the ends of the curve (<60K or more than 150K), your ms'd better be brilliant.
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Writers generally aren't as good at editing as editors are, which, obviously, is why they're not editors in the first place. But writers do need to be able to edit their own work to some extent. Writers often learn to self-edit by participating in writing workshops and critique groups -- thus honing their editing skills on other authors' manuscripts while getting feedback from other writers on their own manuscript. If you've not done this at all, it might be worth a try, and might aid you in deciding whether your 250,000 word novel really does need to be that long or whether it would benefit by being pruned down to 100,000 words.
If you look at recently-published fantasy novels, you'll probably notice that the >200K books tend to be epic fantasy, while the <150K books tend to be action/adventure, romance, and coming-of-age stories. (Just an observation that might be useful to you.)
edited to note: "Self Editing for Fiction Writers" is a useful reference book
If you look at recently-published fantasy novels, you'll probably notice that the >200K books tend to be epic fantasy, while the <150K books tend to be action/adventure, romance, and coming-of-age stories. (Just an observation that might be useful to you.)
edited to note: "Self Editing for Fiction Writers" is a useful reference book
Length
Yes, editors do sometimes buy 250,000 words fantasy novels from first time writers. But it's rare, and the longer a novel is, the better it needs to be. If a novel is 250K because the writer doesn't know how to cut and edit, it stands no chance of selling. If the novel is 250K because it's flat out good, and has already been edited well, and is tightly written, then it stands a fair chance of selling.
But maybe one 250K novel in a thousand has to be anywhere near as long as it is. Most such novels are 250K simply because the writer makes them 250K.
Editors and agents constantly hear the phrase, "It had to be this long because the story is so involved/complicated/etc."
This is almost never true. The smartest thing any new writer can do is write to length. Find out what publishers want before you write the novel, not after. And once you learn the facts, use them. When publsihers everywhere are asking for novels ranging from 80-120K, all writing a 250K novel does is make it darned near impossible to become a published writer.
It's your choice. If you want to write a 100K novel, then don't blame the story for failure to do so. The writer is the boss, not the story. If you want it to come in at 100K, then it will, if you do your part.
And if you want to cut that bloated 250K novel down to 100-120K, you can. Nothing in it is sacred, and it can be cut down to an acceptable length, if you're willing to put in the work.
It isn't only publishers that have problems with 250K novels from new writers, it's also chain bookstores. The blasted things eat shelf space, usually don't sell well enough to justify that shelf space, and are, in general, a pain.
If you really want to be a published writer, then check out length guidelines before you start to write, not after. And if you fail to do this, then learn to make the proper cuts and revisions in order to turn the 250K novel into something that will sell.
Yes, editors do sometimes buy 250,000 words fantasy novels from first time writers. But it's rare, and the longer a novel is, the better it needs to be. If a novel is 250K because the writer doesn't know how to cut and edit, it stands no chance of selling. If the novel is 250K because it's flat out good, and has already been edited well, and is tightly written, then it stands a fair chance of selling.
But maybe one 250K novel in a thousand has to be anywhere near as long as it is. Most such novels are 250K simply because the writer makes them 250K.
Editors and agents constantly hear the phrase, "It had to be this long because the story is so involved/complicated/etc."
This is almost never true. The smartest thing any new writer can do is write to length. Find out what publishers want before you write the novel, not after. And once you learn the facts, use them. When publsihers everywhere are asking for novels ranging from 80-120K, all writing a 250K novel does is make it darned near impossible to become a published writer.
It's your choice. If you want to write a 100K novel, then don't blame the story for failure to do so. The writer is the boss, not the story. If you want it to come in at 100K, then it will, if you do your part.
And if you want to cut that bloated 250K novel down to 100-120K, you can. Nothing in it is sacred, and it can be cut down to an acceptable length, if you're willing to put in the work.
It isn't only publishers that have problems with 250K novels from new writers, it's also chain bookstores. The blasted things eat shelf space, usually don't sell well enough to justify that shelf space, and are, in general, a pain.
If you really want to be a published writer, then check out length guidelines before you start to write, not after. And if you fail to do this, then learn to make the proper cuts and revisions in order to turn the 250K novel into something that will sell.