Bridge crew of a space war ship?

efreysson

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I'm writing a space opera, and I'm writing a scene where I feel I need to go into more detail about how the bridge is manned than before.

I do have a pilot, a comm officer, a chief gunner, a navigation officer, a sensor officer... and that's what I have so far.

Any suggestions, based on either real-life or sci-fi tropes, on who else could be on the bridge, aside from maybe an assistant to each of these?

For clarification, the ship in question is a queen's personal flagship, but I'm wondering who her right hand would be, and who she would take strategic advice from.
 

Aggy B.

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You might check out this article - about a third of the way down the page it goes into some detail about naval crews.

Some of it depends on what tech/systems your ship has and how you want to portray them as being monitored. A queen (or other diplomatic functionary) would likely have an advisor (or several advisors) separate from the crew of the ship. Someone who was aware of the large situation, not just the situation on that particular ship.
 

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Does the Queen have command authority, can she give orders which must be obeyed, even if the captain thinks it's a damn bad idea? If so, fun times ahead.

-Derek
 

Kjbartolotta

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Heh, think I posted this link for a related question last time (lost in some ramblings of mine). Highly worth a read, there are a lot of fun ways to set up a plausible starship crew, a rather pleasant and time-consuming project IMHO.

EDIT- Also check out the retro space-lady images at the bottom. Just to die for.
 
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benbenberi

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A large crew with a lot of people on the bridge is only necessary if your ships are not extensively automated. With enough technology & AI, most crew roles & functional redundancy are no longer required.

So, what's the level of automation on your ships? What do they really need people in command-and-control roles for for that a combination of expert systems, AI, bots & drones can't handle? Those are the roles to fill on your bridge. Any others, think about why you want them there, and why the people in your setting want to put them there when they aren't really needed.
 

efreysson

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Does the Queen have command authority, can she give orders which must be obeyed, even if the captain thinks it's a damn bad idea? If so, fun times ahead.
-Derek

The idea is she does serve as the head of that particular ship. It is her personal flagship.

EDIT- Also check out the retro space-lady images at the bottom. Just to die for.

It really is.
 

Albedo

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The captain, a priest to absolve the captain of his sins, and an officer with a sword to cut the other two down should either desert their stations. The AI can do the rest.

Two identical bridges, with two identical crews. The ship only moves if there's consensus.

Again, the ship is actually run by AI, but it's the Queen's ship, so there have to be a lot of officers on the bridge for show. Most have paid to be there.
 

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I think automated space ships, no matter how realistic, limit the possibility for the drama and human interaction (and swashbuckling escapism) that are central stories of the traditional space opera-ey type. Unless the AIs are characters in their own right. I still manage to suspend disbelief when I watch Star Trek.

Yet another example where realism comes into conflict with the needs of a story.

Though a plausible story about what people will do with themselves once there are no jobs for anyone would be interesting too. I'd write it, but I honestly have no clue that isn't horribly pessimistic and dystopian.
 
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*curls up in a ball and rocks back and forth mumbling about Hal 9000*

Even Auto in Wall-E scared the pants off me, but I digress. It's not that you can't have dramatic stories with AI on the level of automated ships, but they could easily shift the focus away from swashbuckling adventure vibes into... something that makes me deathly afraid, mixed with "trapped on a ship."

(I'd probably have to be heavily sedated before anyone could ever drag me into an automated vehicle. Thanks, Hal. I don't trust those automated blood pressure cuffs at the drug store, either. Nope. Just waiting for them to snap my arm right off.)

I think I have Post Traumatic Space Odyssey disorder >.>
 

Kjbartolotta

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Like it or not, any big spaceship is gonna require a ton of AI subroutines to do just about anything. But it's not all bad, computers are good at doing huge amount of math but suck at pattern recognition and have no sense of priorities or decision making. So I don't see why automation and full crews contradict each other, though I always enjoyed the Revelation Space series where 3-4km long starships can be run by crews of less than ten people.
 

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I like looking at alternate reasons crew might be needed on a ship once everything is automated. Iain M Banks dealt with the issue in his Culture series, and had his sentient ships keep people around basically for companionship. But there are a lot of other reasons. Legal liability? Decisions have to be signed off by members of the meat-peoples' union? Or like Kj says, maybe AI just plain sucks at strategy.
 

Albedo

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Regarding the AI, perhaps this timeline had a "Skynet" incident in their history that they beat, and now AI above a certain level is illegal now. That would lead to the need for full crews again.
 

Kjbartolotta

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Other potential stations:

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Every ship needs a commissar, right below the captain and in some cases overrides them. Just makes sense. (also, at work, I'm sure I can add to these later ;))
 

Kjbartolotta

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The idea is she does serve as the head of that particular ship. It is her personal flagship.

Even if serving entirely at her disposal, I think the ship still needs a captain. It's a full-time job, and beneath the dignity of a monarch to have to assume all the petty responsibilities that go along with it. Let someone else worry about it, and frankly, take the blame if something goes wrong. That's what being a monarch is all about! So I assume the ship has a captain, who knows their places and paces the bridge nervously while the Queen takes the big chair.

Beyond that, you would have an XO/1st Officer, like PeteMC said. Denzel and Commander Shepard were both XO's, so it sounds like you gotta have what it takes. Beyond that, there might be a Flight Commander, Master Pilot, Guidance Commander, Systems Officer, several engineering chiefs (Structural, Propulsion, Electronics, Manufacturing, Handwavium Containment). There's also bound to be fighting forces, I don't know what you'd call the head of marines/espatiers. Corporal, maybe? But there's ton more too.

A monarch's flagship would be quite the prestigious assignment. The crew is likely to come from well-connected families, with an expectation of privilege and lots of pomp and ceremony. I imagine that everyone's dusted off their old sabres and power armor, and is wearing their ancestor's medal from who knows when. It's not always the nobles go to war, so they might as well do it in style.

Also, serious question: What is the protocol if the Queen of England were to engage in naval warfare? Like in Elí's situation, how would a captain react with decorum if QE2 were to be onboard conducting a naval battle. AFAIK it's never come up (yet).
 

Albedo

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FWIW, I think it's more likely that a starship would have real human crew on the bridge overseeing operations, than a vast complement of non-specialist able spacemen to swab the decks and grease the hyperdrive. That's where most of the automation would be.
 

shortstorymachinist

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Other potential stations:

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Gotta make sure those space-ladders aren't being misused. And I really like the idea of an AI therapist, that could make an interesting story.
 

Xelebes

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With a Queen on the ship:

Queen: will likely not spend much time on the bridge. Only to provide instruction to the Admiral.
Purser: someone who will be responsible for any goods carried on the ship in transport, especially the Queen's equipment. Will likely not be in the bridge save for times of entering port.
Admiral or Commodore: someone who will be directing any and all ships in the convoy, depending whether or not the convoy is intended to head into battle or not and whether there is high nobility on the ship.
Captain: someone who will be directing the ship
Pilot: someone who will negotiate the ship as it enters port
First Mate: someone who will be directing the ship in the captain's off hours
Navigator: someone who will be operating the field sensors and providing advice to the captain on course
Spotter: someone who will be managing any and all contacts and providing advice to the gunner and the captain. Will be key to ascertaining friendly or foe.
Gunner: someone who will be directing and dispatching all arms towards declared targets
Page: someone who will be controlling the cross-talk over the airwaves between ships and delivering the commanders orders
Governor: rarely seen on the bridge, but someone whose priority is to make sure the personnel is in order, especially with regards to the nobility and the military officers.
Minister: someone who will be delivering the orders of the queen to the personnel
Butler: someone who sees to the accommodations on the ship for the high nobility on board.

and so on and so forth.
 

neandermagnon

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I like looking at alternate reasons crew might be needed on a ship once everything is automated. Iain M Banks dealt with the issue in his Culture series, and had his sentient ships keep people around basically for companionship. But there are a lot of other reasons. Legal liability? Decisions have to be signed off by members of the meat-peoples' union? Or like Kj says, maybe AI just plain sucks at strategy.

Recent research in the UK suggests that automated checkouts are causing elderly people to be more lonely and socially isolated because quite often going to the shops and chatting with the staff is the main daily social interaction that elderly people who live alone get. I think the need for human interaction is going to mean that many jobs in service-based industries will never be completely automated. Even if it gets to the point where all the actual work is done by robots/AI, companies will still employ humans to talk to their customers/clients. Maybe on board a spaceship in the future, there'll be a human relations officer (or similar title) whose job it is to ensure that people get human interaction where they want it.

Personally, I hate talking to robots on the phone and I also hate automatic checkouts. I realise that the reason why I hate automatic checkouts is mostly because I'm too lazy to scan all my items myself. I'd rather have a friendly human do that and help me with packing. You know, lazy + preference for social interaction. My reason for hating talking to robots on the phone (their total incompetence) may not be an issue in the future, however given that researchers into sentience in animals have found that certain decision making abilities require the animal to be sentient, if you have a machine that's that good at human interaction and making certain kinds of decisions, it would be sentient and therefore require rights, rest time (the need to sleep is a consequence of being sentient, according to the aforementioned researchers), holidays, trade unions etc, and even want a salary - it may end up being more cost-effective just to employ humans. Any function that requires a sentient being to do it, you're going to have all the baggage that comes with employing sentient beings (organic or machine).

BTW I have a science fiction idea on the backburner related to this, i.e. POV character is a sentient robot that wasn't designed to be sentient and isn't treated as sentient, but is sentient because AI programmers and evolutionary biologists never shared that much knowledge with each other. I have other stories to finish before I start writing it, but that's the general idea. If you program an AI to have certain capabilities you may be inadvertently making a sentient being. Sorry for the vague language about "certain capabilities" I can't remember all the finer details and as this research is in its infancy, I don't think the researchers know in exact detail which abilities require sentience and which don't. IMO it's a question that ought to be answered before AIs get that much more advanced. Hence the idea for the story. Sentience has evolved separately on 3 different branches of the tree of life*, including on the insect branch. It's not just a question of animal rights but potentially a question of AI rights.

*IIRC they are land vertebrates (birds, mammals and reptiles), insects (can't remember if all insects or just some) and the squid/octopus clade. Though having seen footage of a species of fish solving complex problems, I'm inclined to think it's in more animals than just those...

So yeah, for the spaceship, roles relating to ensuring that humans get enough social interaction, and the kind of social interactions they want and when, and roles relating to meeting the needs of sentient AI.
 
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Albedo

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Gotta make sure those space-ladders aren't being misused. And I really like the idea of an AI therapist, that could make an interesting story.
Think of the hazards! Oh dear, it appears Rating Smith forgot to tag and lock out when he opened the hyperdrive up, and got sucked into a naked singularity. On the bright side, there won't be any mess to clean up. But now the singularity is 86.723 kg heavier, and we'll have to either limp back to port to have it respun, or risk a catastrophic existence failure when we jump.

The AI, of course, needs therapy to get through this kind of crap.
 

Albedo

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Recent research in the UK suggests that automated checkouts are causing elderly people to be more lonely and socially isolated because quite often going to the shops and chatting with the staff is the main daily social interaction that elderly people who live alone get. I think the need for human interaction is going to mean that many jobs in service-based industries will never be completely automated. Even if it gets to the point where all the actual work is done by robots/AI, companies will still employ humans to talk to their customers/clients. Maybe on board a spaceship in the future, there'll be a human relations officer (or similar title) whose job it is to ensure that people get human interaction where they want it.

Personally, I hate talking to robots on the phone and I also hate automatic checkouts. I realise that the reason why I hate automatic checkouts is mostly because I'm too lazy to scan all my items myself. I'd rather have a friendly human do that and help me with packing. You know, lazy + preference for social interaction. My reason for hating talking to robots on the phone (their total incompetence) may not be an issue in the future, however given that researchers into sentience in animals have found that certain decision making abilities require the animal to be sentient, if you have a machine that's that good at human interaction and making certain kinds of decisions, it would be sentient and therefore require rights, rest time (the need to sleep is a consequence of being sentient, according to the aforementioned researchers), holidays, trade unions etc, and even want a salary - it may end up being more cost-effective just to employ humans. Any function that requires a sentient being to do it, you're going to have all the baggage that comes with employing sentient beings (organic or machine).

BTW I have a science fiction idea on the backburner related to this, i.e. POV character is a sentient robot that wasn't designed to be sentient and isn't treated as sentient, but is sentient because AI programmers and evolutionary biologists never shared that much knowledge with each other. I have other stories to finish before I start writing it, but that's the general idea. If you program an AI to have certain capabilities you may be inadvertently making a sentient being. Sorry for the vague language about "certain capabilities" I can't remember all the finer details and as this research is in its infancy, I don't think the researchers know in exact detail which abilities require sentience and which don't. IMO it's a question that ought to be answered before AIs get that much more advanced. Hence the idea for the story. Sentience has evolved separately on 3 different branches of the tree of life*, including on the insect branch. It's not just a question of animal rights but potentially a question of AI rights.

*IIRC they are land vertebrates (birds, mammals and reptiles), insects (can't remember if all insects or just some) and the squid/octopus clade. Though having seen footage of a species of fish solving complex problems, I'm inclined to think it's in more animals than just those...

So yeah, for the spaceship, roles relating to ensuring that humans get enough social interaction, and the kind of social interactions they want and when, and roles relating to meeting the needs of sentient AI.
This is a good argument. And if true decision-making AI requires sentience, some cultures might reject it as being too much like slavery. Others might reject it for religious reasons, or because it just squicks them too much. All good reasons to have a bridge full of meat-people.
 

Kjbartolotta

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Provided you've already worried about added mass and the onerous care & keeping of human in a closed environment, it might also be cheaper & easier to stock a ship with willing, multi-purpose seamen than showy, psychologically delicate AGI. Plus, there are some duties (ship's band, for example) an AI can do wonderfully but still would likely fall to people.
 

efreysson

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I think automated space ships, no matter how realistic, limit the possibility for the drama and human interaction (and swashbuckling escapism) that are central stories of the traditional space opera-ey type.

Yeah. I'm going for a retro, hands-on style...

Regarding the AI, perhaps this timeline had a "Skynet" incident in their history that they beat, and now AI above a certain level is illegal now. That would lead to the need for full crews again.

... and this is how I justify it.

There's also the issue that when it comes to space battles, a human gunner is going to be less predictable than an AI.